747 pilot recalls

[Acepilothk99]

Word around the street 747 SOs are being recalled to work?

[Stallone]

heard 8 of them

[Oasis]

Would they, by coincidence, be Hong Kong citizens?

[viking avenger]

and does Seniority even play into this?

[cxflog]

They were all cadets with a HK passport or PR. There’s is no seniority for the rehiring and now that immigration is not renewing CX crew visa’s it’s looking a lot like if you’re not a PR you won’t be rehired until the locals are all employed.

[doolay]

Not on COS18

[Drc40]

Anyone have more intel on this? I’d be interested if this was true.

[Acepilothk99]

i heard some of the pilots were local i am not sure about the rest

[Dragon Pacific]

I’ve heard it from a few reliable sources and it doesn’t surprise me; an attempt to placate Immigration. Surprised though that they are being taken back on CoS18 and not CoS21 like UO.
I hear that Immigration are hiring a consultant in order to understand the pilot job and the relevance of type ratings etc when it come to the local talent pool. I doubt that Cathay will be able to convince them that it is OK to train 777 rated non-PR onto the 320/1 when there are plenty of pilots from KA available. Nor could they justify retaining non-PR pilots on the Airbus, again when plenty are available.
So it is easy to understand why they have taken back 747 rated pilots and will then try to retain non-PR 747 rated by arguing that KA pilots would need too much training and as such aren’t readily available talent for that type.

[doublelift]

What I heard is, total 9 being called, all local cadets and are out of seniority order

[Dan Winterland]

Seniority? It's COS18 v5.

[Freehills]

doublelift

there’s no furlough clause, seniority has no meaning once you have been made redundant

[theduke320]

I worked with Eva years ago on the 737 ....please tell me you didn’t lay her off.....brings smarts with class.

[Piet Lood]

Really?
She wasn’t smart enough not to undermine several union efforts and not to have herself used as the postergirl for the HKG Sevens, 5 minutes into her employment.
A smart person would take the temperature of the room before she starts advertising him-/herself.
But I guess she learnt from that mistake.

[Joker89]

Pedaling :mad: fairytales on social media in the current aviation climate is distasteful imho

[claraball]

theduke320

At your airline did she publicly criticise her captains and tell the media how sometimes she keeps them out of trouble? She's exactly CX material. I don't mean that in a good way. One of my regrets is that I never got to be her captain so I could tell her to put her :mad: camera away and do her job. If you have any other opinions let me know so I can do exactly the opposite.

[swh]

DP,

CX literally has hundreds of pilots on the 777 and Airbus with PRs many of which haven’t flown most of the year. There is zero chance any ex KA pilot will be employed to fly the 4 A321s next year. Under COS18 is costs the same for CX to have a 777 pilot sat home or do A321 training (no pay for sim/ground training in COS18). It makes no sense to employ anyone new if they have people at home on pay not flying.

CX would also have hundreds of pilots within its ranks that have flown the A320 before, they have been around for 30 plus years.

Everyone is well aware of what you have been through, and it seems some just haven’t moved on, first you the denial, then anger, some are still in this bargaining stage, next depression will follow, and finally acceptance.when you actually pack up and leave hKG.

[bacou]

swh, wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to terminate the 777 pilots and hire the ex-KA qualified on A320 ?

Don't assume CX management value anybody, money saved is a future manager bonus !

[swh]

Probably not, they still need to be retained.

[fly1981]

they still need training, however, significantly less than a 777 to 321 candidate would require, unless the 777 pilot had previous airbus experience.

[fatbus]

Don't forget the humiliation of a 777 captain lowering himself to a 320 . 😂 Can hear it now " this is the way we did it on the 777 " " this thing is a piece of s ..."

[mngmt mole]

Well, several of my 777 colleagues haven't flown since February...so i'm guessing a 320 would be a refreshing change. "Change" is the word of the year i'm afraid, and most of us are having to deal with that. At this point in the game, i'd volunteer for any new rating that was offered. In particular, a 320 rating would at least open many more doors around the world than just about any other type would. Best to focus on the silver lining in every cloud...

[krismiler]

Don't knock the A320, no jet lag and more nights at home in your own bed. You work a bit harder but the fatigue goes away after a good night's sleep. Plenty of take offs and landings for those who still enjoy actually flying an aircraft. And it's a very useful type rating if you need to move on.

[BubbaJ]

My guess is the 320 courses will be assigned not volunteered for. A normal CCQ was always 330/320 so I would say any non current Airbus guys first then a handful of B777 JFO or SO's waiting for upgrade. I also agree the A320 would be a nice little ticket to move on with

[Dragon Pacific]

swh, I agree that there is no chance of any KA pilots being taken on next year but until some are taken back there is little chance of any work visa extensions longer than three months being given to non PR pilots. CX will be happy to let this happen as there are still far too many pilots. As these will mainly be juniors forced to leave then we may see CNs downgraded to FO too.
Rumours of LA base about to be given bad news and I don’t give the other bases much future either.
As for accepting KAs fate and leaving HK and going home KA had a high percentage of locals for whom HK is home. They are going nowhere and will continue to lobby Immigration.

[Gnadenburg]

I also agree the A320 would be a nice little ticket to move on with

To get the 1000 to 1500 hours on type will take years, if operations not starting until late next year?

So I think you are correct, the A321 will be a "nice little ticket to move on with". Although whatever you figure you've gained, will be earned in a gruelling manner by what folks at CX may be used to. Having flown both wide bodies and narrow bodies for KA, the operational stress is not comparable with the 320 being veritable hard work even for the highly experienced. This, the new COS and heavy China operations, will drain many. Especially if the 321 is looked upon as a professional purgatory and flown with an arrogant mindset. On the latter, with higher sector numbers, error rates manifest and the latent pressure from a blame culture in China are taxing. KA managers were experienced at protecting crews when erring in China and SOP philosophy was more adaptable and hence, naturally defensive. This based on what we saw when loaned a CX Chief Pilot to introduce CX SOP's into KA.

So in light of all this, I can not fathom an independently wealthy CX pilot, enduring the required years, to gain the required experience to be meaningful elsewhere? Unless you keenly identify with being a CX pilot or are an avid enthusiast.

[Gnadenburg]

Everyone is well aware of what you have been through, and it seems some just haven’t moved on, first you the denial, then anger, some are still in this bargaining stage, next depression will follow, and finally acceptance.when you actually pack up and leave hKG.

Really swh? Are you truly aware of what some of the KA guys have gone through? Because I think if you have, you may be a little kinder. Some haven't even been paid!

You aren't an EAP counsellor. The grief timeline isn't regimented or linear. It jumps about. Especially under the circumstances faced by many former KA staff. Sure, senior KA guys, fed up and with sound finances, probably sit more on some sort of relief like process versus the trauma of colleagues less well positioned.

I'd invite CX guys with KA pilot friends to ask the uncomfortable questions about the termination process they faced. We are fortunate as a group and have tended to stick together and help each other navigate the process and the DPA Committee has been admirable in their efforts. I can not imagine what some CX pilots may face under COS 18 if this disaster drags on. I just recommend being kind.

[swh]

What makes you think others have not worked for airlines that have closed their doors in the past ?

[el commandante]

well because it wasn’t during a pandemic.

[fatbus]

All SWH is stating is the phases people go through . It's a harsh reality and some deal with it better than some . One could see very good examples by reading the QR/EK/EY threads .

[mngmt mole]

I highly recommend reading "Who Moved my Cheese" by Spencer Johnson. One of the best books on how to deal with change.

[Unbelieve]

theduke320

At your airline did she publicly criticise her captains and tell the media how sometimes she keeps them out of trouble? She's exactly CX material. I don't mean that in a good way. One of my regrets is that I never got to be her captain so I could tell her to put her :mad: camera away and do her job. If you have any other opinions let me know so I can do exactly the opposite.

She did what??? I always got the impression that she was down to earth. This is a shame if true.

[claraball]

Down to earth? She's an IG superstar mate. Do a search for her SCMP interview when she was 5 minutes with CX. No room for that BS in the cockpit but if pilots objected they were threatened by management. She's a real special one that one.

[Unbelieve]

I'm unable to read the full SCMP article without a paid subscription, but I'll take your word for it. It sounds like she has quite an entitled and superior attitude. I absolutely despise flying with those types as well. Has she really publicly spoken out about having to save her Captains from themselves?

If so, wow.

[Drc40]

She needs to have her wings clipped and kicked to the curb. She’s a woke moron. I’d hate to have that wretched skag sitting next to me.

[Fly747]

She’s a long way off the seven so Immigration will sort her out in due course.

[Unbelieve]

What's so bad about her on the flight deck? Is she one of those instapilots who is so consumed by the need to capture good "content" that she neglects her basic duties?

Or does she just nitpick and call "airspeed" when the PF is 1 knot slow but the trend vector is positive?

[Gnadenburg]

What makes you think others have not worked for airlines that have closed their doors in the past ?

That comes over a little smug though I'm hoping more ignorance. Otherwise, did you tell your 49er mates to harden up?

The percentage of KA pilots who have, as you've suggested, worked for failed airlines is very high. Pandemic aside, leaving no professional opportunities, difficult markets and difficult repatriation- without breaching non-disclosure agreements, the off-boarding process has been challenging. That's why I invited CX pilots to chat their KA mates and have a very frank conversation about the process. Although I hope it is, this may not be over by a long shot. The new contract will give no breathing space for many pilots and their families, if what's left of the formal off-boarding procedure, is bungled by stretched resources. Your union must be onto this? Talking to the DPAC at a minimum for a heads up? Any further assistance that the CX Group may wish to receive from the Government, is this time around likely to involve more formal protections of local labour. Further redundancies may well be on the cards.

KA pilots were well prepared for the most part, to take this on the chin. The process has been made needlessly stressful beyond most airline collapses and with that there's a pandemic. Sprouting a distorted version of the "Death & Dying" grief cycle or a recommendation to read "Who Moved My Cheese" would seem more than obnoxious. Who knows how many CX pilots may be facing similar in 2021 and without their COS offering as much as what KA pilots received? Again I'd suggest to be a bit kinder.

[swh]

Who knows how many CX pilots may be facing similar in 2021 and without their COS offering as much as what KA pilots received?.

The reality is CX will not exist unless things pickup.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Publicly naming and bitching about a colleague on an anonymous forum AND wishing for her to lose the job.

Respect ladies, a new all-time low just in time for christmas👍

[veritas777]

Racist sexist pigs behaving like racist sexist pigs? Much surprise.

Maybe unemployment with no other marketable skills back in their home country will humble some of these know-it-alls

[mngmt mole]

Wow. I am utterly stunned by the level we have obviously reached as a group of pilots. It is sad and profound that our professional value has deteriorated to the point it has. There really is no turning back from here. Take you and your families away from this abjectly sad and valueless place. CX is finished.