One down in the Alps

[Teddy Robinson]

Not my usual forum, but this has just been reported.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/helicopter-crash-french-alps-savoie-b1768328.html

one pilot ok from this report, no word on the other 5

[DIBO]

5 dead, 1 survivor
https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1336438138093375488?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[megan]

three helicopters that were deployed could not get close to the crash site because of thick fogHope it's not a pointer :{

[ATN]

It was a training flight. The survivor is the chief instructor of the company. Loss of visual references, collision with the ground/obstacles.

[rotorspeed]

Not familiar with the exact numbers, but 6 POB in a presumably a SAR equipped EC135 with say even 30 mins of usable fuel sounds (a) close to MTOM and (b) not leave much power reserve for 1750m training ops. Be interested to know why necessary or even wise to have so many POB from anyone that knows about those sort of ops.

[Frenchrotorhead]

I agree, not trying to blame anyone, especially because the cause seems to point to bad weather/ CFIT so unrelated. But in addition to the performance elements you point out, this seems to have been an early EC135 T1 with a winch accessory. Certainly not much of a power reserve on this flight.

[rotorspeed]

Thanks Frenchrotorhead. It may or may not apply here, but actually being heavy with reduced power reserves certainly increases the risks of operating in poor vis conditions, particularly at low speed - one simply cannot pull out of rapidly developing IMC conditions as quickly. Or gain airspeed as quickly for stable IMC flight, should that be a safe option. Very sad though however it occurred.

[EMS R22]

Sorry to hear.

Thoughts are with family and friends.

RIP

[sherpa]

EEW 1700 kg, Useable Fuel 150 Kg, Reserve 70 kg, 6 PAX 480 kg (most of them skinny frech rescuers are more likely at 70 kg) - TOM 2400kg

2400 kg @ 1750 m shouldn't be an issue for T1/P1

[aeropierre]

I agree 100% with you rotorspeed .This kind of training should be done with only minimum crew onboard ,Night time with fog around , no chance to escape any emergency , including engine failure at this altitude.

[aeropierre]

It was a training flight. The survivor is the chief instructor of the company. Loss of visual references, collision with the ground/obstacles.
ATN :how did you manged to obtain this information regarding this loss of visual references . Is it your own speculation or are you just trying to start a rumor.

[ATN]

The time of the accident, the weather, the local press report, the rescue helicopters returning to base because of thick fog and the fact that I have flown in this area and know that the weather can change very rapidly, all this leads me to conclude that low visibility is the root case. Call it speculation if you like but I am certainly not trying to start a rumor. The survivor, to whom I wish a swift recovery, and maybe a cockpit camera will tell us.