Luton-10

[Spanish eyes]

The airlines claim the aircraft are safe as the air is filtered despite the air only being filtered when the engines are running. On the coaches passengers face every direction standing for long periods while their bodies touch as the last remaining passengers board. I don't really call that safe but others might disagree due to the mask wearing.

[The96er]

Do LTN have a policy regarding busing ? . MAN are currently limiting the buses to approx 30/bus on buses that are approved for 110pax

[Yeehaw22]

GLA have a similar procedure. Also most operators are running air-conditioning packs with the APU any time pax are on board.

[The96er]

What a tragedy seeing all those young and healthy people who have all now presumably passed away judging by how your describing LTN.

[LTNman]

....and those healthy people won't pass it on to anyone older than say 50? Just wait for the Christmas rush as distant families meet up. The whole point of the post is that it is near impossible to travel safely through Luton while conforming to social distancing, which is why we are told to avoid public transport. No doubt other airports will be the same around Christmas time, which is an acceptable risk for all travellers.

This is the official video about how safe Luton is, which seems just a tad different from the other video.

https://youtu.be/qqrqwXt4kqY

[pabely]

Gatwick expecting 100 flights a day by mid December from the low point of 4 the other day, wonder what Luton will see 50+ ?

[LTNman]

Latest Dart drone footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qih20Uqg000&feature=youtu.be

[avidspotter]

Guidelines seem to suggest prolonged contact is less than two metres for more than 15 minutes. Given the size of the airfield, I don't think I've ever been on an airside coach for that long at LTN or anywhere else for that matter!

Using coaching would not be first choice, but probably more risk from other parts of the journey. After all going out anywhere carries risks. I think I'd feel more comfortable in an airport than in a pub for the evening...

[LTNman]

I would love to go to the pub but only at certain times of the day and those with few customers. I also feel quite safe at the airport but then I am not standing in any queues, I don’t sit down and treat everyone as though they have the Black Death so I pick my weaving path and don’t touch a thing.

Landside certainly feels safer than my local supermarket although I doubt airside was a great place to be in the summer months due to a lack of space despite very low passenger numbers.

[avidspotter]

I don't think the location is really the issue. It's generally the people who occupy it!

[pabely]

LTN busier than LGW today?

[FRatSTN]

LTN's been busier than LGW for most of the year has it not?

[BHX5DME]

Luton 56 movements today (Sunday) Gatwick 31

Stansted 92
Heathrow 385

[pabely]

FRatSTN

My point was to do with low points last week LTN bounces back quicker, I know movements do not equal bums on seats but does imply once again demand is strong to want to operate flights from Luton. Next week will see EZY kick in again.

[LTNman]

The truth is that the demand is only to fly to and from Eastern Europe and it is Luton’s good fortune that the airport is the principal airport for that traffic. It is hard to believe that all these passengers are travelling for essential reasons and will be quarantining but that is not the airports problem, as they are just proving the gateway.

Gatwick’s bad fortune is that they don’t see much of this traffic.

Due to Luton’s traffic type I suspect they will bounce back faster than most airports.

[Buster the Bear]

Importing the turkey pluckers.

[DC3 Dave]

You may be right. It is a good job they will not be needed after Christmas because they will not be able to work here. Neither will they be able to fill zero hour contract low paid work at the airport when growth returns.

[southside bobby]

Virtually all airport workers I think you will find would have resident status.

The temporary agricultural workers would be different of course.

[DC3 Dave]

Granted. But have LTN (and others) retained all their staff? And what sort of turnover is the norm in these jobs? All I’m pointing out is after Jan 1st airports - including those working in areas in the airport but not directly employed - will not be able to rely on a steady stream of labour from Eastern Europe.

I am not making a political point. Just pointing out that vacancies may become increasingly difficult to fill if demand returns strongly.

[pabely]

I thought, currently, EU citizen rights are unchanged until 30 June 2021 and then special exceptions for seasonal agricutual workers. That will not cover airport workers though unless considered skilled!

[southside bobby]

If they are furloughed then obviously retained.

Possibly fair point re general turnover I guess but judging future job prospects out there in the aftermath perhaps that will slow.

Tended to witness most people after being employed at an airport would move between employers & jobs at the airport & not leave it altogether.

[LTNman]

There are a few here missing a vital point. As with many industries when you have hard working people willing to do a job for less money it suppresses wages. Maybe not now but many companies operating at the airport have a high turnover of staff due to low wages and unsocial 24/7 work patterns but there has always been an unlimited supply of new people to take on the jobs. One issue can be a 5 year traceable history for security passes for some jobs.

If a company can’t find enough employees due to the U.K. leaving the EU they have three choices. Don’t fill the post, increase the wages offered as well as improve the T&C’s or for more skilled jobs train the unemployed or school leavers. If this in the long term means the end of zero hour contracts and better wages then that is a good thing.

[SWBKCB]

when you have hard working people willing to do a job for less money it suppresses wages.

Which was of course the whole point of the free movement directive. However, back to Luton Airport....

[southside bobby]

LTNman...

Given the general economic/job situation then perhaps a rear view mirror view now with some aspects

Funnily enough employers always have means in most situations to turn it to their own advantage of course.

The 5 year traceable history comment is valid as is of course a required CRC...At large airports with multiple possibilities the security passes could sometimes be viewed by the holder as a bonus for prospective employers too.

[LTNman]

A valid GSAT certificate also helps.

Some companies at Luton had such high staff turnover rates that they permanently employed third party companies to find staff and put them through initial training programmes. New staff then worked for several months for these companies before directly working for the company that actually needed the staff.

[southside bobby]

BAA/STN used to charge companies on site for the issue/provision of airside passes for their staff.So a bit of investment in that regard too.

[LTNman]

Luton charges £43 for a full pass and £66 to renew it for some reason.

Talking of charges people might remember that Easyjet were going to rent a floor or two of the multi story and use it as a staff car park. The charge for each parking bay within the multi story is £2315 per space per year for staff parking.

[LTNman]

Just a reminder that from tomorrow all Blue Air flights from Bucharest Otopeni Airport to Luton will be transferred to Heathrow.

[pabely]

And checking their booking engine they are back at LTN on this route from 28/3/21, and Bacau & Iasi continue as normal.

[LTNman]

From February more easyjet passengers will have to check in luggage to the hold as the airline seems to be banning the standard size carry on case unless passengers upgrade their seats and even then only some seats are upgradable. One of the reasons Luton can handle 18m passengers is that the majority of passengers now don’t check in luggage. Capacity Issues for the future?

[LTNman]

EasyJet restart operations tomorrow from Luton.

[pabely]

TFS ACE, TLV & BFS, surprised no EDI or GLA.

[LGS6753]

EDI & GLA (and AMS) start Friday. Irregular for a week, thereafter more frequent.

[pabely]

As does Milan, Paris to name a few.

[LTNman]

So how many of those destinations don’t require a quarantine either outbound or return or both ways?

[LTNman]

All the Network Rail platforms at Luton Airport Parkway now have a roof over the escalators but no side walls yet.
https://i.imgur.com/PSjG4Mh.jpg

There is still no sign of the missing 33% of the interchange building for the Dart being started any time soon with the access route from the railway platforms finishing in mid air.
https://i.imgur.com/rSS0yqV.jpg

At Central station the roof over the ticket hall is getting its second layer of roof.
https://i.imgur.com/nVOvEbc.jpg

Meanwhile the platform area has just its first layer of smooth roof fitted. The ceilings are still to go in. Track has been laid to the platforms and into the maintenance area.
https://i.imgur.com/70TMeET.jpg

Just a reminder what the station area looked like in July 2016 when it was the drop off area with no walkway from the multi story that had yet to open and no second multi story.
https://i.imgur.com/0zpZ531.jpg

The dual carriageway has been put back to its original position after being moved twice for the construction of the cut and cover tunnel.
https://i.imgur.com/tnoi7wp.jpg

Finally not a mini Dart train but 2 electric passenger assist vehicles come to Luton for the first time. They are fully weather protected due to the long ride to the drop off area. They look too big to get passengers airside as I don't think they would fit even in the goods lifts.
https://i.imgur.com/tplp9LN.jpg

[Spanish eyes]

Due to the crowded nature of the departure lounge and with people sitting on the floor it would be too dangerous for the carts to operate upstairs.

[Buster the Bear]

Sitting on the floor! What a desirable passenger experience! Shame on the airport!

[compton3bravo]

Just wondering as Wizz are starting a flights to Sharm they would consider a service from Luton and/or Gatwick?

[pabely]

I'm sure it will be considered, LGW has issues with slots, as Moscow & St. Petersburg seem to be working from Luton then it must be on the horizon for W21.
They also fly to Alexandra so perhaps that.. Personally I would like to see Hugarda. Plenty of great hotels you can book direct and of course guaranteed sun!

[LTNman]

Luton also has an issue with slots as there isn’t any spare for the summer of 2021. Only DHL got awarded additional slots with everyone else being turned down no doubt due to slot blockers.

A case of airlines having to rearrange what they have to start new services.

[pabely]

Which Wizzair have the luxury of, with some of those x4 daily routes and with an expected slow down of East Europeans just jumping on a plane to work within EU.

[southside bobby]

LTN recorded 105,000 pax in November...

[World Traveller]

LTNman;

I bridge over a railway line will not be built over time; I expect that this section will be built in the adjacent site compound and lifted in to position in one go during a weekend track closure.

[inOban]

Network Rail plan their engineering possessions at least a year in advance, so I'm sure it's in their calendar.

[avidspotter]

Buster the Bear

While I know seating has always been an issue (not enough where needed and too much where it isn't) I have personally on numerous occasions (pre-covid) pointed out to those sitting on the floor the empty seats in front of them, but they have been reluctant to move or appear to lack the courage to ask others to shuffle along or move their possessions to make space...

[LGS6753]

From Travel Mole:
https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~T_mdT_Y!&w_id=38354&news_id=2045330

Confirms November traffic figures, and predicts a low December figure.

[LTNman]

World Traveller
I bridge over a railway line will not be built over time; I expect that this section will be built in the adjacent site compound and lifted in to position in one go during a weekend track closure.


Sorry you have lost me as these photos shows the bridge already straddling the 4 tracks. It was built in sections during the spring and was erected 2 tracks at a time overnight with the middle platforms providing supports. It is now being clad in situ.

This is the first part of a video showing the bridge being built and erected
https://youtu.be/4YGu1Fcf_nY

This was taken 7 months ago showing the 6 support columns.
https://i.imgur.com/xyylDvL.jpg

This photo was taken on 27th September.
https://i.imgur.com/8l3Epq6.jpg

[highwideandugly]

Could I ask a spotter type question please!

Surfing all the airport sites.....the question..is Farnborough now busier than Luton for biz jet type traffic?
I know Luton held top spot for years?

[pabely]

highwideandugly

Yes I think Farnborough is now. Although FAB is only 07:00 to 22:00 most days it has the room and runway capacity. Alot of the old heavy metal now goes to STN because you can't park a BBJ overnight because all stands are full.
BIG is also making great gains thanks to mutiple good FBOs.
Last summer the FBO tug drivers were kept very busy in unlocking parking puzzles in the hope a client would turn up at agreed time and their plane was ready for them.
The plans to the new 6 pack would have helped but that is on ice now although I think planning was approved.

[pabely]

Sounds about right. I don't know if FAB will be open Xmas Day but LTN will!

[LTNman]

pabely

It wasn’t approved as it never needed planning permission. LLAOL claimed it was part of the planning permission for 18m although no plans ever showed an apron there.

Council policies are directly responsible for the airport losing its number one status for business jet movements at Luton. They were and are only interested in putting passengers through their terminal so LLAOL have implemented those policies by sacrificing business jets by freeing up apron space and by not reserving any slots for business jets during busy periods. Now that Luton is handling only a fraction of passengers through its terminal the damage has already been done.

FBO’s, business jet companies and business jet maintenance were big employers at Luton but as Gulfstream found out when the Council refused requests for land for a new hangar and offices the Council was not interested in promoting business jets, in fact they saw businesses jets as holding the airport back.

Also I can see the day when 3 FBO’s that became 2 becomes 1.

[LTNman]

Good chance that Luton will go into tier 3 next week as Covid cases climbed during the lock down. This would mean the few coffee shops and restaurants that opened and that have seating would have to go to a takeaway service only putting more strain on the terminals limited seating capacity.

Luton's Covid hotspots are the communities that provide all of the airport taxis and with rates as high as 556 per 100,000 it would be a brave soul to catch a taxi from the airports taxi rank except they would not have a clue. The airport did though close the prayer room a few weeks ago due to a lack of social distancing.

[commit aviation]

LTNman

Can't find the information right now but I think you will find that airside food outlets are exempt from the rules.

[LTNman]

Didn’t know that but to be honest I don’t think many have actually reopened.

[Buster the Bear]

As I live very close to one of the new Farnborough RNAV departure routes, I can certainly confirm that Farnborough appears to be thriving. Gulfstream are having no problems filling the vacancies for their new giant hangar.

[pabely]

Just checked and FAB is closed 25/26 and NHT closed for extended holiday period as well so a busier VVIP period for LTN. As for jobs at Gulfstream, thank god for Covid, it was a big issue for them at one point!

[Buster the Bear]

A few made redundant at 2Excel Engineering are heading that way from Lasham.

[pabely]

Almost unnoticed, Wizzairs first flight to Gibraltar from Luton occurred yesterday https://www.chronicle.gi/rock-welcomes-wizz-airs-first-flight-from-luton/

[LTNman]

With fares from £13.99 and APD at £13 who is paying who at Luton? During a pandemic Gibraltar is not a country you want to be diverted from unless you have 10 free days. My last trip this year was cancelled but the year before I watched one BA flight end up in Malaga due the wind coming off the rock and it wasn’t even noticeably windy. Great place to visit though in better times.

[compton3bravo]

Firstly Gibraltar is not a country it is a British Overseas Territory with the border with Spain open with several thousand people crossing each day. I would guess being diverted to Malaga would have an exception. After 1 January who knows.
There is a nice report in the Gibraltar Chronicle (sorry cannot link it) about the arrival of the first Wizzair service with some excellent photos.

[LTNman]

They were having to quarantine as reported here after a long delay
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/uk-holidaymakers-quarantined-after-flight-18831486

Back to Blue Air. It was reported here by I think pabely that Blue Air flights to and from Bucharest are returning to Luton from Heathrow in the summer so I have tried a test booking.

Both Heathrow and Luton are bookable for August 2nd but intriguingly both inbound and outbound flights have the same departure and arrival times for Heathrow and Luton. Flight numbers are the same except Heathrow has an extra 3 in it so OB 131 and OB132 becomes OB1331 and OB 1332.

I suspect at some point some passengers are going to find their airport switched and this is an exercise in seeing which airport has the higher bookings.

[AirportPlanner1]

Its not. It’s an exercise in whether they keep their LHR slots for the summer. If they do you won’t be seeing them at LTN.

[LTNman]

Seems a logical conclusion.

[LGS6753]

Yesterday saw 70 Wizzair movements. Ten times the number of EZY movements.

[pabely]

LTNman

I think you failed to notice the price difference, obviously not knowing the number of seats booked currently, or is that just the LHR surcharge as it alot more expensive to land and operate there? If you live in say Bedford and get transfered to a LHR flight are you going to be happy?

[LTNman]

I did indeed notice the price differences so do think think Blue Air will be be running parallel flights with the same timings to each airport with similar flight numbers?

[LTNman]

Animation from a few years ago. Much of it came out correct but not nearly as posh. Ceilings and the outside roof never really materialised giving the terminal a cheap feel together with fixtures and fittings and now with the Dart it is all change again. I can remember being quite excited after watching this and can remember the disappointment when the extension first opened as it looked half finished except it was actually completed.
https://youtu.be/xnMVYaHsCvY

[pabely]

After the launch of the new Gib flights last week by Wizzair, today they started another new route from Luton to Madeira.

[LTNman]

I believe Covid PCR testing stations are being set up in the mid term car park. At the moment the only one I know about in Luton is charging £199 for a fit to fly certificate. Announcement due next week about facility and price.

[LGS6753]

An increase in freight flights noted in recent days - 5 or 6 DHL 757s/A300s, plus MNG and yesterday a Cargo Logic 737 from Bratislava.
Wizzair operated over 90 movements yesterday, EZY 16, plus the odd Blue Air and Ryanair.

[LTNman]

Just another example how the virus will spread over Christmas when people are told they should do the sensible thing. Many will take the virus out of the country and even more will bring it back in. How many will follow the rules is up for debate when families are not meant to mix until December 23rd in the U.K. and then only for 5 days.

[ericsson16]

The lurgy is already here,it's been here for months,218 Countries and Territories around the world have the bloody lurgy,how can you take it out if they already have it and how can you bring it in when it's already here? Give me flippin strength.

[LTNman]

Many European countries have much high per capita rates than the U.K. You can see where we are on the list here https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110187/coronavirus-incidence-europe-by-country/

Back to traveling within the U.K using your logic. If we already have high levels throughout the U.K why the worry about families mixing at Christmas and why are the 4 nations saying think carefully? Maybe the clue is what happened after Thanksgiving.

[pabely]

I know not just relating to Luton, but Blackstone Equity is circling them in $3B share offer. A good price if you own shares after they became depressed due to CV19.

Cargo still only got the use of 2 stands, hate for one if those DHL A300 go tech?

A TUI to TFS today as well.

[ericlday]

I presume you are refering to Signature Aviation...

[LTNman]

I thought Signature are moving out of their cargo apron hangar?

[Dannyboy39]

Just another example how the virus will spread over Christmas when people are told they should do the sensible thing. Many will take the virus out of the country and even more will bring it back in. How many will follow the rules is up for debate when families are not meant to mix until December 23rd in the U.K. and then only for 5 days.
Let me guess - Eastern Europeans again?

Its everyone. People in Luton are being tested, awaiting for the result and still carrying on as usual. People are symptomatic and going to work because they cannot afford not to.

[LTNman]

Do I detect a bit of prejudice there with that comment? There are flights all over the Europe and the U.K today if you care to look before making assumptions.

[gdiddy]

Thank goodness for Wizz Air, easyJet have more or less desserted the airport!

According to FlightRadar24 there will be 84 departures tomorrow, of which 11 are easyJet, 4 are Ryanair and 2 are Blue Air. Meaning 67 departures are Wizz!

easyJet look like they have more than 80+ departures from Gatwick tomorrow.

[pabely]

Don't take the fact that it is showing in FR24 that it will actually run, but I know what you mean.
EZY at LTN have had issues this week.

[flyerguy]

There is defo 11 EZY tomorrow

BFS/FUE/AGP/LIS/MXP/EDI/PFO/LPA/TFS/PMI/ACE

Data not from FR24 so more reliable

[Dannyboy39]

Do I detect a bit of prejudice there with that comment? There are flights all over the Europe and the U.K today if you care to look before making assumptions.
No. It was aimed at your constant anti-Eastern European agenda on this forum.

[mariofly12]

Easyjet is bringing forward the start of all seasonal routes to Greece from end of March instead of the usual May/June period and extending them till end of October..Plus, there are increased frequencies for summer season..And there quite a few of them..CFU.HER,JMK,RHO,SKG,ZTH..Ι don't want to sound pessimistic but end of March is still heavy flu season/corona virus period, so the restrictions and quarantine rules will still be in place in many european countries..It's kind of a risky move which will inevitably lead--again-to cancellations. vouchers etc..And mass vaccinations won't do away with the infection risk until after a period of 6-7 months till a significant number of the european population has been vaccinated..

[Buster the Bear]

So how many of the departing travellers today will take the £199 'Fit to Fly' test? How many arriving passengers travelled Covid-19 negative? The entire testing scheme for flying are scams to milk more money for the airlines and airports. With all airports and airlines desperate for income, what next, £10 to be provided with an App based ticket?

The turkey pluckers need to go back home, Wizz will do that.

[LTNman]

No. It was aimed at your constant anti-Eastern European agenda on this forum.

Rubbish, it has nothing to do with being anti Eastern European but when Eastern European’s make up around 90% of Luton’s passengers on most days at the moment it is hard to ignore that fact or should I focus on the other 10%? If they were Chinese would I have an anti-Chinese agenda if I dared mention the Chinese? I guess I am lucky they are not people of colour as that would whip up hysteria with the PC brigade here.

Covid doesn’t discriminate between people so I don’t give a stuff where they were born but travelling and visiting relatives for Christmas during a pandemic is not particularly a bright thing to do when we are being told not to travel unless it is essential within the U.K although the fan boys here who get excited at the number of Wizz aircraft flying each day would disagree, which I accept. Maybe I could understand that excitement if there was a bit of variation but Luton is going to end up being a very boring airport where even the Biz jets are deserting the place.

Sometimes less is more.

[davidjohnson6]

Many European countries have much high per capita rates than the U.K. You can see where we are on the list here https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110187/coronavirus-incidence-europe-by-country/


This should possibly be on the "how Covid affects aviation" thread, but when quoting Covid case rates, one should probably think more about how many current cases of the disease there are, rather than how many cases there have been since March. The website referenced by LTNman seems to show the *cumulative* number of cases - i.e. all cases since counting began in February or March

If a large number of people were infected in September but are not infected now, that might be a good thing, since those people may (and I stress *may*) have some form of immunity and thus leads to a less-than-transparent overall picture of current risk
If you think that Luton is or soon will be a centre for cases being imported into the UK from other countries, then it should be referenced with data around *current* case rates rather than including what was happening in March/April

You can find details over the last 14 days for the UK and EU member states at
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
Data for other countries can be found at
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

Alternatively, take a look at
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

[LTNman]

Buster the Bear

Well that is the inconvenient truth. Tenerife needs a fit to fly test but there are not many other locations that do but when a certificate can cost many times the price of a ticket who is going to bother when the attraction is usually the cheap ticket.

[Spanish eyes]

I have just put a covered nose into the departure lounge and it is rammed when it should have plenty of capacity with the drop in demand. The airports policy of building a shopping centre with many bars and restaurants which are all but shut has reduced the public space by around 80%.

Some people are wearing masks as chin guards while others have their noses exposed. I haven’t walked the length of the lounge but just stuck my head through a staff entrance. I don’t consider the lounge to be a safe environment so I quickly headed back down the safety of the fire escape or should it be renamed the Covid escape route. So who is pretending flying is safe apart from airport and airline management.

[LTNman]

This is a scale layout of the departure lounge. The bottom is the original lounge and the top and upper left is the terminal extension, which didn’t add any seating capacity only retail and a corridor. Seating in departures is limited to the bottom middle sections with a few extra chairs dotted about. If passengers know where to go there are plenty of seats in pier B but that is not the departure lounge.

Some outlets are now gone for good including one company where the parent company went bust taking out 3 large airside restaurants. Other outlets have just quit the airport, which is a tragedy for the staff involved. Most are still there in appearance but have never reopened since March including Starbucks
https://i.imgur.com/qZqG1mS.jpg

The YouTube video is now just a memory as this space became the terminal extension which protected a little further out than the front of the terminal.
https://youtu.be/fjlCkham3l4

[Spanish eyes]

We haven’t lost our sense of humour in the office. One wag has just reminded us of British Airways and how they claimed to be the world’s favourite airline. Now we have Wizz who are Covid’s favourite airline aided and abetted by LLA. Oh well it will soon be Christmas and yes Wizz are flying on Christmas Day which hasn’t gone down too well. Never mind lots of free time from the 28th as the airport is expecting another lockdown but then airports and its passengers are excluded so maybe not much free time as the airport never shuts.

[compton3bravo]

Another extra cargo charter this morning, Swiftair B737 from Bratislava (large VW car plant there) so presumably car parts.Expect even more in the new year. Regarding working over Christmas if you are employed in certain industries ie leisure, hospitality, etc you have to accept that is part of the job. Plus don't forget nearly half the world's population do not celebrate Christmas anyway.

[PAXboy]

The Flu Season was mentioned. In all liklihood, the Flu will be much reduced this year. Mainly because folks are wearing masks, not hugging and keeping their distance. If they did this every year, not so much flu. People have clamoured for flu vaccine this year but the actual need is less.

[LTNman]

TUI 8:25 flight to Lanzarote tomorrow has been cancelled due to Tier 4 restrictions. There will be some unhappy people around who were thinking they were spending Christmas abroad. I feel their pain.

[pabely]

Is there much of the TUi program left at any airport from tomorrow?

[pabely]

Another CargoLogic in from Bratislava, EZY to AMS got canned by that is more to do with new travel rules at the other end.
A SunExpress later today.
Biz busy yesterday, Nice looks like the go to place, if you can afford it!

[LTNman]

Whether you agree with it or not there was mass ignoring of the new Tier 4 rules today at Luton as travellers carried on regardless including friends of the wife who are now abroad.

[The96er]

How do you know that ? We’re you there to witness it? If so, why were you there ?

[Spanish eyes]

I was there. Seems that children and toddlers were making essential business trips today.

[pabely]

LTNman

The same story everywhere , told the Emirates A380 from LHR to DXB was rammed this morning in Y class.

[Lee Baker Street]

The96er

LTNman tends to take photos from areas nowhere near his home so your question is valid. For someone who goes on about others breaking rules he tends to have views from the likes of top floors of hotels and building sites at Parkway area and within the terminal area which I am sure is because he is an airport employee or as I sometimes wonder a local councillor, as he reminds me of someone who is a LibDem member and anti airport growth. He should practise what he preaches!

[TBSC]

Never mind lots of free time from the 28th as the airport is expecting another lockdown
It might happen a lot earlier than that.

[PAXboy]

Strange Lee Baker Street as LTNman has always come across to me as pro the airport.

[SWBKCB]

From the BBC

Tui cancels flights out of Luton Airport (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55384120)Tui will continue to operate out of Gatwick and Stansted which are located in tier two areas. A company spokesperson said: "Any customers that live in tier four and are due to depart in the next 14 days will be entitled to cancel and receive a full refund or amend for free to any holiday that's currently on sale."

[LTNman]

One TUI flight cancelled as that is all they had.

[Buster the Bear]

Whether you agree with it or not there was mass ignoring of the new Tier 4 rules today at Luton as travellers carried on regardless including friends of the wife who are now abroad.

Unless it was an essential journey, that is a flagrant disregard for Tier 4 rules. Then folk wonder why their lives are being restricted by Covid rules!

[LTNman]

You can be sure that new airport workers will be working for next to nothing on zero hour contracts as the airport and its companies will see this pandemic as an opportunity to drive down costs. The true race to the bottom will start next year as all airports play let’s screw the workers as they fight each other for passengers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-55089151

[cavokblues]

Lee Baker Street

Does any of that break any restrictions? I've no idea if he works there but if not you're allowed to drive and go for a walk with a camera.

[Musket90]

Buster the Bear

According to government advice if your home is in a Tier 1 to 3 location then travelling through an an airport in a Tier 4 area is permitted provided you know the COVID rules when arriving at your destination. If your home is in a Tier 4 area then you must stay within it and not travel outside. Hopefully that's my understanding !

[LTNman]

Most of Luton’s passengers are from T4 areas. Even people in other tiers are only meant to travel to countries in travel corridors which are almost zero.

[pabely]

One TUI flight cancelled as that is all they had.
At least the flight was cancelled unlike EZY TLV flight where UK passport holders were segregated, forced onto crowded buses and have now been forcefully quarantine in a hotel. Those who refused to board buses now cannot enter Isreal and have issues returning to UK.

[Captain_Caveman]

not quite Pabely. All non Israeli passport holders were advised they were unable to travel as the rules changed just as check in opened.
only Israeli nationals were allowed to fly as per instructions from Israeli government and they were all told there was a strong possibility they would have to isolate on arrival in TLV at a government appointed hotel for 14 days if they chose to travel.

[Buster the Bear]

Musket90

You are 100% correct. Barking mad, but you are right.I am in tier 1/2/3 but have a trip booked from an airport in tier 4. Can I go there? The main airports in Tier 4 – Heathrow, Luton and London City – will remain open, and people from other tiers will be able to access them, whether flying in or out.

The government says: “If you live outside a tier 4 area you may still transit into or through a tier 4 area to travel abroad if you need to, but you should carefully consider whether you need to do so.”

[LTNman]

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/luton-airport-easyjet-ryanair-wizz-4820820

Article about Luton

English residents are only allowed to travel before or after Christmas Day if they have a valid reason for doing so, such as caring responsibilities, moving home or travelling for work or study.

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “The restrictions are legally enforceable and the police will continue to take action where necessary.

[Dannyboy39]

Captain_Caveman

Of course the virus is discriminatory against nationality...

[pabely]

Departures board looks like Chisinau & Pristina shuttle with just a handful of other flights now.

[LTNman]

Most shouldn’t be travelling anyway.

[pabely]

Looks like EZY will be the busiest airline tomorrow due to the numbers of domestic flights they are doing.

[LTNman]

The following article about Southend Airport shows what happens when a Council that doesn’t own an airport operates independently and impartially when making planning decisions.

At Luton there is no independence or impartiality as the Council owns its airport so every application without exception is approved with just a nod of the head.

If the DCO to government for outline agreement for airport expansion is approved then detailed planning applications will be submitted to the Council, by the Council, and approved by the Council for the financial benefit of the Council with zero checks and balances to the detriment of communities both near and far.

Maybe this is fine for the majority here but it should raise alarm bells about how local government is meant to serve the people rather than themselves.

AIRPORT bosses remain hopeful of building a second hotel on site despite plans being thrown out by Southend (https://www.echo-news.co.uk/sport/blues/) Council.

Southend Airport has now lodged an appeal with the secretary of state in a bid to see a 132-bed hotel built.

The proposal, to build the hotel on a staff car park to the north of Eastwoodbury Crescent and close to the existing Holiday Inn, was rejected in September due to concerns over parking.

Councillors raised concerns that by reducing the number of existing parking spaces from 86 to 45 it would push more people to park on nearby streets.

Councillor Meg Davidson, deputy leader of Southend’s Conservative group said that that car parking has always been an issue at the airport but supports a hotel “if it meets the needs”

She said: “We need to see what happens to demand to the airport and if it is actually needed.

“The existing hotel – when things were more normal it was up to capacity. It’s very difficult to see how things are going to pan out in the short-time and how quickly air traffic gets back to anything air traffic levels that we have seen.

“We welcome facilities and things that encourage people to visit Southend.”

[pabely]

Welcome to Communism!

[LGS6753]

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~T_mdT_Y!&w_id=38419&news_id=2045531

Another route from Wizzair (Dalaman)

[pabely]

After it was announced from Donny, was expecting this!

[Buster the Bear]

I am sure the Labour controlled council will come under 'Special Measures' soon. Then maybe the stories of alleged corruption will unravel, or not.

[LTNman]

The Southend application that was turned down for a 132 bedroom hotel because it only had 45 car parking spaces reminds me of the last planning application for a new airport hotel at Luton. The Luton one, which was approved has 171 bedrooms and only around 36 parking spaces or 86 if the parking spaces of the joining hotel are shared, which is a similar sized hotel.
https://planning.luton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=QBNZ6XKGGND00&activeTab=summary

Anyway more important things need to be mentioned. I wish my greatest fan Lee Baker Street a Merry Christmas, as I do everyone here who takes the time to either just read this thread or has the passion to contribute. I always enjoy reading every comment.

I will close by letting my fan club of one wonder whereabouts I took this photo and was I even allowed?

https://i.imgur.com/oowJpau.jpg

[Spanish eyes]

At least 20 Christmas Day cancellations with 4 departures. Wizz might not be happy but their flight crews will be. Merry Xmas to everyone working today.

[pabely]

Yes not as busy as planned but the guys/gals at Signature & Harrods will not be idle and TUI Engineers seem to be working!

[LTNman]

I took this photo on May 24th 2016, which is over four and a half years ago of David Cameron campaigning at Luton Airport to remain in the EU but some people have still not got over the result. Well it has happened so get over your disappointment that the UK didn't follow France, the Netherlands and Ireland in holding second EU referendums when the result did not go the EU's way.

If we are to keep this thread on track maybe it is worth looking at exactly where Luton will find the extra passengers needed to get the airport to 32million now that we are finally out?

Maybe airport pay rates will start to rise in real terms in the next few years rather than being suppressed with limitless amounts of cheap labour. Maybe school leavers will once again get proper four year apprenticeships rather than the UK importing skills? Maybe Wizz UK will start to employ UK crews to UK registered aircraft at Luton rather than undercutting Easyjet with cheap labour seeing that UK unemployment is growing due to Covid.
https://i.imgur.com/JmopHJO.jpg

[Buster the Bear]

May 2021 mark the unravelling of the alleged Borough Council/Airport incestual affair?

It will also be interesting to see if the UK immigration points system affects Wizzair core market?

TUI and easyJet are now even more debt leveraged after massive injections of cash to keep them alive.

Airports will have to raise fees to pay for increased borrowings and fares will have to rise to service new debt levels. This may well be delayed into 2022. Will the market sustain those increases especially if the the effect of quantitative easing (inflation) is beginning to blight the economy and unemployment remains scarily high?

More importantly, let us all hope that Covid-19 does not mutate to make current vaccines mostly useless, and still remain a killer. Friends of mine still refuse to believe me when I told them after the twin vaccinations, you can still contract Covid-19 plus have symptoms and then be contagious!

There will be pent up demand from folk desperate to travel, from refund vouchers and cash compensation being reused from 2019.

Far too many unknowns to predict the next 12 to 18 months.

A certainty is that airlines and airports will need to borrow more to see them through, but at what point do they become unviable..............

[Spanish eyes]

The airport has less cancellations today so Luton is a little busier but overall the figures are well down on what was expected only 2 weeks ago. The figure expected 2 weeks ago for Christmas was only a fraction of what passed through Luton last Christmas so things are rather grim.

Border Force say they are ready for January 1st with lines being divided into 2 rather than 3 with EU nationals joining the rest of the world queue.

I just want to add that I found some of the posts in recent days appalling that was started by someone who wanted to provoke a reaction that had nothing to do with the airport so I am glad to see the moderator taking action.

[pabely]

Conditions "challenging" today in freezing fog with a few shedules put back to see if conditions improve, a few biz diverted away.

[Dannyboy39]

Border Force say they are ready for January 1st with lines being divided into 2 rather than 3 with EU nationals joining the rest of the world queue
Is this actually the case? I was under the impression the queues would stay as they are with the UK / EU / selected Western nations outside of the EU remaining in the same queue and everyone else in the other?

[LTNman]

Luton airport Covid test prices to be carried out in the mid term car park. Add to that the price of the airline ticket and it will put some people off when the test could cost more than the ticket. Also a fail will result in a no show so a loss of the the break/ holiday and probably no refunds.

A LAMP test is 79 GBP per person
A PCR test is 99 GBP per person
An Antigen test is 50 GBP per person
An Antibody test is 40 GBP per person

[pabely]

Just done a check in Stansted & Heathrow web sites and identical prices, so that's the price and will not affect your choice of departure airport, what did make me laugh was the Ryanair advert encouraging you to book for Easter, really......
MOL come back to me at Easter to even consider anything later in the year, even with tempting low prices. You should be budgeting for S21 being a rightoff as well and if things do drastically change then it is a bonus.

[LTNman]

Heathrow passengers will be wealthier than Luton’s bargain hunters but then most people should not be travelling without good reason anyway.

I think the testing is all done by the same company which explains the same price.

[Manx]

LTNman

Thats the same risks for all airlines/airports not just Luton. If people are bold enough to try booking a flight in the first place, i don't think these prices/risks will put people jeff booking

[compton3bravo]

I see there was a TUI Belgium Dreamliner in late on Tuesday from Brussels. Only stopped for about 90 minutes and left on a Ferry number so guessing a cargo charter.
​​​​​​

[pabely]

I think it went to Paris Vatry if I remember, whether it picked up cargo at Luton or required a quick mod by engineers, I don't know.

[pabely]

Tfl - Transport for London are adding Thameslink route to all stations maps in zones 1 - 6 and associated web sites, will highlight even more Airports connectivity to London.

[LTNman]

Not only Thamelink but also the non stop East Midland Trains route from Parkway to St Pancras is also shown as a separate route in light blue.

The appearances on the map are only temporary due to Covid. Also worth remembering that unlike Gatwick the Oyster card can’t be used at Parkway so an additional ticket would need purchasing for rail travel into and out of London. Also no deal has yet been reached with the airport over the Dart link so a separate ticket could be needed for that part of the journey as well. At the moment Thamelink are charged a fee for the shuttle bus using the airports bus station. Now it looks like the airport could be charged a fee by Thamelink for issuing a through ticket. That is assuming a deal can be reached.

Finally the game changer should be when Crossrail opens in 2022 but then the improved connectivity will also apply to other London Airports. The journey time from Farringdon for Luton and Gatwick to Liverpool Street for Stansted and Southend is cut to just 2 minutes.

[LTNman]

Seems that the airport has found a new money stream as much of the mid term car park has been turned into a van park of various sizes, models and manufacturers.

The Covid test before you travel facility that also shares the same car park is getting busier.

[WilliumMate]

Also no deal has yet been reached with the airport over the Dart link so a separate ticket could be needed for that part of the journey as well. At the moment Thamelink are charged a fee for the shuttle bus using the airports bus station. Now it looks like the airport could be charged a fee by Thamelink for issuing a through ticket. That is assuming a deal can be reached.


It doesn't quite work like that. Luton Airport is regarded as a National Rail station having the code LUA. You can through ticket from any other station on the network. Who gets what proportion of the fare is determined by the Rail Settlement Plan and is calculated taking into account the number of operators over the entire route. For instance a single ticket from St Pancras to Luton Airport would be shared by Thameslink and East Midlands Railway with the shuttle bus share going to Thameslink. Should the airport strike a deal over the DART then that proportion would go to them through the RSP. If the airport want to be the exclusive vendors of tickets for the DART then through ticketing on the national network would not be possible. Thameslink do not issue tickets on their exclusive behalf unless they introduce an advance ticket or a ticket only valid on their services (such as those sold onboard incoming flights) so could not charge the airport a fee for doing so on a through ticket. Saying that, a commission could be received on stand alone DART tickets sold by them, if the airport allowed their sale.

[southside bobby]

Above...And right on trend:another LTN muddle.

[LTNman]

As I have stated before the Dart will do much to enhance the airport experience for the 1.5m rail passengers who will be buying return tickets to use it but the Dart will do nothing to increase the airports capacity, which is presently fixed at 18m. If the DCO is turned down then the Council has blown £243m in loans with no guarantee that it will turn a profit on the Dart as LLAL becomes a transport operator.

On the positive side travel between St Pancras and the Airport should come in at around 30 minutes or under using East Midland Trains which is far quicker than the Stansted Express.

On the negative side the enhanced new electric service will be using second hand 20 year old ex Southend stock that has been tarted up. Walking through the train will not be possible as 2 joined up trains will be used.
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/midland-main-line-electrification-delayed

[ajamieson]

Fairly negative take on it ... potential passengers will have a choice between a dedicated, faster (but more expensive) St Pancras-LUA express service and a very high-frequency, high-capacity Thameslink service from a number of useful central stations. Both of these are a vast improvement on what Luton could offer as little as four years ago, and both are more attractive than the Stansted or Gatwick Express. (I find Thameslink excellent for London-Gatwick and suspect users will prefer it for Luton, too).

Contactless ticketing (Oyster PAYG or mobile payments) would be the cherry on the cake.

[LTNman]

Actually there will now be no price difference between the walk on fare for East Midland trains and Thameslink. Not sure if that will apply to discount tickets but I expect it will. There was an intention to charge a supplement but that has now been dropped.

Certainly Luton has a superb list of directly connected stations extending from the south coast to the midlands.

[Wallsendmag]

Just picky but EMT ceased to exist a couple of years back it's East Midlands Railway now.

[barry lloyd]

The electrification of EMR keeps drifting further and further to the right. A friend of mine who works in the business reckons it will be early summer at least before these train sets are in operation.

[LTNman]

The operating company were still saying May 2 months ago in the article below. Of course it was meant to start in December 2020.


The airport was pushing for 4 non stop trains an hour so depending which way you look at it the service will either double or the service will be half what was requested. At one point they were hoping for express branding on the trains. Combined services will see 16 trains an hour call in at Parkway. 2 non stop, 4 semi fast, 2 slow in each direction.

The actual trains are more modern on the Thamelink service and more commuter looking on the East Midland Railways service and a step backward compared to the existing diesel trains.
https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/help-manage/about-us/news-press/completion-of-new-railway-sidings-in-kettering-marks-key-milestone

[Mr Optimistic]

The Thameslink trains never seemed that luggage friendly to me. Any signs of change?

[LGS6753]

Looking at the Sun Express website, they seem to be offering a full programme in S21 to Ankara and Gazantiep (weekly), Antalya (up to 5x weekly) and Izmir (up to 4x weekly). A longer season in 2021, with flights starting on 3rd April.

[davidjohnson6]

I'm curious - who are the passengers who fly between Luton and Gaziantep ? Are there really that many Turks living in London/Gaziantep who want to fly back/forth, or is it simply a side route into Syria as flights cannot operate between the UK and Damascus/Aleppo for the time being ? I find it difficult to believe there's much tourist traffic on the Luton-Gaziantep route....

[LTNman]

How can there be any tourist traffic as it is illegal?

[PinOnTheRight]

How do you know already it'll be illegal for tourist traffic between Turkey and Luton in Summer 2021?

[LGS6753]

It's a decent-sized city (2 million population), and only 60 miles from Aleppo (2010 population 4.6 million). But no beaches, and close to what has been a war zone.

[southside bobby]

Gaziantep...

Back in the day when originally introduced at STN was led to believe it was Turkish pax visiting family/relatives.

[LTNman]

PinOnTheRight

I never mentioned summer did I

[LTNman]

So what is your point apart from a desire to post pointless drivel?

[SWBKCB]

PinOnTheRight

I never mentioned summer did I

No, but the original post you were commenting upon did.

Looking at the Sun Express website, they seem to be offering a full programme in S21 to Ankara and Gazantiep (weekly)

[PinOnTheRight]

LTNman

As SWBKCB points out, the discussion on schedules to Turkey relates to Summer 2021.

But my real reason for posting is because I’m playing catch up to try and rival your record of 8000+ posts of pointless drivel over the years.

[southside bobby]

LTNman posts on another pprune forum too..."Aviation History & Nostalgia" with very worthy historical info & photographs from his knowledge of all things LTN which adds greatly to the total of 8000+ posts I suspect...

It will be interesting to see what valuable comment & input has been produced eventually by PinOnTheRight then by chasing posts...Good luck with that.

[LTNman]

There is a disturbing trend on this thread to attack posters. It is one thing to disagree, as debate is healthy but it is unacceptable that people like PinOnTheRight with a grand total of 15 posts thinks his posts are acceptable. Well they are not. I calling on the moderator to monitor this thread closely and take action against ALL people who add nothing apart from provoking an argument and causing discord for reasons best known to themselves.

[PapaEchoNovember]

+1 on this. Whether you agree or disagree it’s fine, and so is healthy debate, but the attacking which is going on, personal or otherwise is out of order. Didn’t think I’d see cancel culture on PPrune. How long before #metoo because people are upset and offended by posts they don’t like.

[PinOnTheRight]

+1 from me too. I’m still hurt LTNman said my post was pointless drivel.

[cj241101]

Having been a regular contributor to pprune in the past, the content of the page I've just endured reading sums up the reasons why I'm not now.

[Buster the Bear]

I don't this has been mentioned on here today?

https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-and-announcements/wizz-air--7770403.html

[LTNman]

Bar chart taken from a Council report that will be discussed on January 12th 2021. Remember you have seen it here first.


https://i.imgur.com/fwCSgBi.jpg

[avidspotter]

Looks like those figures might be an incomplete year to me. I make it between 5 and 6 million in 2020

[pabely]

Are the 20/21 stats from 1st April 2020?

[LTNman]

I would have thought so. 2020/2021 still has 3 months to run but it is clear that other months are missing but I don’t know how many. I am sure someone will add up the months from April to reach 2m.

I suspect the Council is looking to project a more grim picture than reality to justify further cutbacks. Regardless of passenger numbers LLAL receives £3m in fees even if there was not a single passenger but they don’t mention this. The problem is that LLAL has gone from being a zero risk company to a property developer, airport speculator, and now a soon to be transport operator so has raked up massive debts that they can’t cover. The solution was to borrow £83m from the Council who has cut every possible service to the bone.

[boeing_eng]

My concern is that these recent troll postings seem to be part of a trend to try and trivialise and discredit those who are legitimately discussing and highlighting the many issues regarding the airport (and particularly the actions of LBC!)

[LTNman]

Make no mistake the Council monitors this thread. They also run a suspected unofficial dirty tricks department run by a councillor so who are the trolls? Many might scoff at that thought but it is true that many think there are dark forces inside this Council.

The airport directors are subject to an investigation by the Local Government Ombudsman for breaches that they thought they could get away with, which is delayed due to Covid but that investigation will come back to life next month.

The Council was also subject last year to an investigation by the Information Commissioners Office for a deliberate malicious data beach that was made to damage an individual who exposed wrong doing at the Council that was airport related and again was about the conduct of airport directors who are all councillors. Data breaches are actually criminal acts.

Their mistake was to leak a private email to a hostile site without first removing the Council markers. The email was forwarded by the Council after being screen shot and then sent from a private email account to hide the offenders identity. The email was originally sent to the Council leader on a Saturday afternoon when the Council offices and Town Hall was shut. 4 hours later it was published together with insulting comments. In fact the sort of comments I now read here. The only people to see that email was the Council leader, the leader of the opposition, the CEO and the Corporate Director.. All denied leaking the email but a Council investigation looking at the email servers found that the trail stopped with them and yes I have a copy of the report.

[boeing_eng]

LTNman I am aware of the incident you mention regarding the leaked e-mail and if I recall correctly it was taken down fairly rapidly from the Troll FB page where it appeared! I find it staggering that LBC are engaging in such behavior against their own residents and it seems they feel they are untouchable (even when reports such as the one you mention clearly indicate they are involved) How we can ever hope that they are fully brought to account seems nothing more than a pipe-dream! These recent troll postings here definitely exhibit similar traits!

[LTNman]

The Council actually initially refused to ask for the email to be removed saying it was up to the email author to take action. It took around 2 weeks before they reluctantly took action

[pabely]

FR24 reporting Bacau is currently Luton's busiest route, Milan can't be far behind!

[Lee Baker Street]

boeing_eng

I have found no evidence within this forum to suggest trolls exist unless you are confusing some entries; which are positive and welcome the future plans for the airport development. Yes some comments might appear damming of other’s entries, but that is to be expected. It reminds me of a conversation I once had with David Franks (who I have known personally for over three decades) who is a Leading Luton Councillor. We both had different views regarding the airport operation. Needless to say I respected his views and he mine, however my vision for the airport is half way there!

[BHX5DME]

Those figures are roughly already know as 2020/21 is March to March

The question is what will the figure be 2021/22 ?

[BHX5DME]

12m ending 30.11.20

Luton has 6,719,895 down 62.94%

[pabely]

Bill Gates getting some flack for bidding to buy Signature Flight Support whilst preaching climate change in a new book. Perhaps he will only accept electric biz jets if he gets his hands in it!

[Spanish eyes]

The airport is making the news for all the wrong reasons with no social distancing at Luton despite the latest lockdown and the airport press releases that the airport is Covid compliant. Will these passengers be following the quarantine requirements for entering the UK?
https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/london-luton-airport-huge-crowds-4869658?fbclid=IwAR3UYzbh8JdKX3gT9u2S9oU0m_gftfZ543hB7a-zmwuoOIXcI2qb1EI7zqk

https://i.imgur.com/6SqBQ12.jpg

[avidspotter]

Not good. Certainly not right now, and once to much, but sadly not unique to LTN:

LGW arrivals a few days ago: https://twitter.com/todonnell/status/1345868584086622209?s=20
LHR: https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1346788612474621952?s=20
MAN: https://twitter.com/Jonnyboy682/status/1340274890612633600?s=20

And here's a quick google of stories from around the world going back a few months (I could go on!)

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-easyjet-passengers-left-claustrophobic-23211407
https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/12/31/crowds-pour-through-dubai-international-airport-ahead-of-new-years-eve-celebrations/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-to-crack-down-on-violations-of-distancing-rules-at-airport/
https://skytraxratings.com/amsterdam-schiphol-airport-safety-is-failing-customers-during-covid-19
https://www.newstalk.com/news/irish-in-london-describe-pandemonium-at-heathrow-airport-over-overbooked-flight-1125626
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13518694/heathrow-packed-covid-christmas/
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/passengers-upset-about-lack-social-distancing-charlotte-airport/CFPC6T4FU5HGJJTBJXSCLPC7KA/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2276980/Video-Footage-shows-crowded-Rhodes-Airport-lack-social-distancing.html
https://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-passengers-rage-at-lack-of-social-distancing-at-airport-20200722

[LTNman]

Great examples then why air travel should be suspended until the lockdown is ended. Either this country is serious about getting this virus under control or it isn’t. If I go to the towns tidy tip I have to social distance yet it is outside. 1 mile away I can stand in a packed corridor and that is alright.

What do they both have in common? Answers on a postcard

[avidspotter]

Your issue is surely with UK Government policy? Closing air links and the UK borders would be one for them not for local council or an airport.

[LTNman]

Yes it is down to government to set the policy but it is down to the airports to keep their passengers safe and it isn’t happening. In Luton’s case they are refusing to set a safe per 15 minute flow rate that the airport can cope with so one hour the airport is heaving and the next 3 hours it is empty. Flow rates or lack of are set by the airport operator and haven’t changed since pre Covid for the terminal.

[avidspotter]

I'll have to defer to your superior expertise on that one.

[LTNman]

Terminal capacity pre and post Covid. In fact arrivals capacity was increased from 2510 to 2800. All flights should be PPR to regulate arrivals and spacing during lockdowns. If they bunch on the apron passengers should be kept onboard as we are told aircraft are safe, which I suspect is dubious with the new variant
https://i.imgur.com/n36IMNN.jpg

[pabely]

Is Signature going to use H125, now that the Gulfstream name no longer appears above the doors?

[LTNman]

That was the intention maybe a year ago. Don’t think anything has changed. Gulfstream held talks with LLAL but LLAL/ Council would not offer Gulfstream a plot of land for a new facility as it would have impacted the Councils expansion plans. Gulfstream threatened to leave and take its highly paid workforce with them and that is what has now happened.

Looking at Luton’s business jet traffic in general, it is also on the decline despite the millions Signature spent on its FBO again due to the LLAL policies to expand passenger numbers basically banning business jets for parts of the day due to the airport having no spare slots before Covid hit the airport or due to noise restrictions.

[LTNman]

The total decline of Luton for business jets in just 6 years.

I took the first two photos in March 2015 just before work started on Signatures new FBO
https://i.imgur.com/BZT6N7z.jpg
One of their 2 hangars just before demolition.
https://i.imgur.com/kCBBgPb.jpg

These photos shows graphically how business jet traffic has declined at Luton and these photos don't include Harrods or Signatures other 2 aprons by the old flying club which were also full.
https://i.imgur.com/GbB9OTN.jpg
When Gulfstream first came to Luton they occupied Signatures FBO hangars as seen in this photo .Gulfstream then occupied the blue hangar (hangar 125) and Signature moved back onto their old hangars
https://i.imgur.com/tIOj5FY.jpg

South Stands
https://i.imgur.com/elcESK2.jpg

Google Earth of the same aprons plus Signatures new FBO taken I guess in 2019. The South apron not seen in this screen shot is empty. For those that wish for ever more flights to places that no one has ever heard of this is what you get.
https://i.imgur.com/lG1sj4i.jpg

[roaminglondon]

Interesting pictures of the business jet side, thanks for sharing. It certainly does seem business jet movements is in demise at Luton.

I do wonder, if the growth of Farnborough, Biggin Hill, Stansted ( Business Jet FBO's ) have taken some of the work?

[LTNman]

More a case of the airport gifting the business to other airports as they have forgotten the airports core business model. The first to go was most of the airliners that were converted to business jets. The dedicated business jets then followed

[southside bobby]

Pre Pandemic it made financial & logical sense for the operator at LTN to trade a pax/airliner movement for & instead of a corporate Citation movement...

Airports such as LHR had been doing this for many years & even STN for the medium/ long term were viewing corporate movements as finite...

So in the light of restrictions the operators & airports including FAB & BQH embarked on large scale expansion of facilities the results of which are increasingly evident today...

With limited access to the R/W in terms of holding points & turnoffs & R/W length to maximize movements in comparison with say LHR/STN & notwithstanding noise quotas LTN was perhaps always to see a reduction in corporate traffic to enable the airlines...

LTN is caught in the here & now whilst having planned for a future that is for the foreseeable at least out of sight...

STN has been a net beneficiary of the BBJ type market from LTN to an extent but STN has also gained with the many Corporate & Governmental heavies denied access to LHR over the years...

[pabely]

Signature have FBOs in BQH, LHR & LGW so can direct business to other stations.

[Douglas Bahada]

Any truth to the rumour easyJet are considering closing Luton Base?

[boeing_eng]

BQH in particular has been aggressively marketing itself to the corporate sector since the beginning of the Covid crisis (with packages including free landing fees etc)

The writing has been on the wall at LTN as far as corporate aviation is concerned for some time. Obviously, places like FAB & BQH have night closures (this occasionally benefits LTN or STN) However, long-term the growth will be at the London airports which do not handle commercial airliner traffic in any quantity. It remains to be seen if Cranfield manages to attract the corporate traffic its aiming for....

[toledoashley]

Douglas Bahada

I think more of a case of suspending ops until the middle of Feb, which seems to be the case across the board (not just Luton)

[TBSC]

For those that wish for ever more flights to places that no one has ever heard of this is what you get.
Without those flights no one (in Luton) has ever heard of your airport would still be a rather irrelevant short runway surrounded by a tin shed called a terminal, a couple of containers called an airline HQ, ten real aircraft stands. bizjets lying around everywhere, no car park, no train shuttle, no snow cleaning/de-icing capability, no taxiways, plenty of backtarcking for fun, three hotels in the city. Like it was 15 years ago.

[avidspotter]

Well said! The general xenophobia and stigma towards certain airlines and their passengers is what I think the experts call unconscious bias. They don't even realise they're doing it and deny it if challenged!

[LTNman]

avidspotter

Here we go again with the personal attacks. You just can't help yourself can you with an irrelevant pointless post that doesn't concern the airport. So how many identities have you created? Are you claiming expenses from you know who?


So we all agree then that the death of the airports business model of terminal traffic combined with business jets, heavy engineering and aircraft maintenance together with the many business jet company offices and associated companies was worth sacrificing which has been replaced with zero hour terminal jobs. Fair enough

Just some of the hangars and hangar offices torn down in recent years to create mini aprons as aircraft maintenance was cut back or ended for apron space.

https://i.imgur.com/1XcSpti.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hZ2yNuP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/swoYZbr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/FQfZqVG.jpg

[compton3bravo]

Regarding Gaziantep it is a VFR (visiting friends and relatives) destination. It surprised me there are not more flights to the capital of Turkey Ankara although most people think Istanbul is the capital.
​​​​​​Well said avid spotter, if some posters were to be taken ill - heaven forbid - and have to go into hospital I am sure they wouldn't mind where the medical staff come from even it is somewhere some people have never heard of it!

[avidspotter]

It was a challenge to the language often used by you and others on this site which appear to denegrate entire countries and their people! You may be doing so unintentionally and without realising how they read, but I reserve the right to pick you up and call you out on that...

In the last five or six years, Luton's "new" business model seems like it has been fairly successful if you ask me, the point the previous poster was making. Who knows the other way may have been better, but pre-COVID Luton was still number 2 in the UK for biz traffic and in the top 10 in Europe as far as I remember. So I would argue a good mix of low cost, GA and cargo seems perfectly sensible to me. I would argue that LTN will probably find this an advantage in the current climate, but maybe I'll leave that to the economists to fight that out.

And just to clarify I'm not posting on behalf of anyone, but I do earn a living from the airport and I am broadly supportive of it...

[Manx]

If you paste what is effectively the same stuff over and over again and nearly every post is so negative against the airport, airlines and customer nationality to single handedly ruin what was quite an interesting thread, dont be suprised if people get fed up with you. Only grateful you don't work in aviation so airport and airline staff manage to avoid the repeated drivel. Nobody expects constant glowing praise for an airport that has plenty of faults, I know it must be boring for many to be in lockdown/isolation and I know its incredibly popular to say outlandish things in the name of free speech and then be offended and cry victim when people voice an opposing view, but jesus christ...

[Buster the Bear]

I see that Signature and Gatwick will now have the same owner.

[avidspotter]

Did wonder if that will have any implication for LTN in the long run. Still think Luton is better placed for Central London by road which seems to appeal to Biz traffic.

[pabely]

Luton Airport has a very good catchment area for this type of business although Oxford and soon Cranfield want bigger slice of the pie as well.

[avidspotter]

For those interested: https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/transport/plans-submitted-luton-airport-increase-annual-passengers-18m-19m-3107372

[Spanish eyes]

I have finally seen the passenger load figures for November when travel was for essential reasons only:

Top
92% Bucharest, Romania
91% Tirana, Albania
83% Varna, Bulgaria
82% Sofia, Bulgaria
78% Chisinau, Moldova

Bottom
15% Naples, Italy
17% Bratislava, Slovakia
17% Reykjavik, Iceland
22% Milan, Italy
25% Zakinthos, Greece

A little insight as to what is happening here on the ground at Luton and particularly what a difference a week makes. These observations are not based on written load sheets but just using my eyes.

Last weekend and for the previous few months only essential travel has been allowed followed by a period of quarantine for most if not all of Luton’s destinations. From last Monday a coronavirus negative test is now also required so that in many cases the test is costing more than the giveaway airline tickets. The result of this new requirement is that those essential travel passengers seemed to have dried up at the moment.

Now why would that be as surely essential travel numbers should not change? This would hint that there has been the flouting of travel restrictions with weekend warriors heading in both directions for crafty weekend stays with family and friends.

[MARK 101]

pabely

Hearing a lot of rumours about Signature expanding at BHX. With HS2 coming ,think that could become a decent alternative, plus its outside London Airspace so ATC slots are easier for some destinations

[The96er]

So you’re thinking that the well-to-do jet set are going to arrive on a swanky private jet, only to get on a train with the plebeians? - not really.

[pabely]

Not convinced this would be because of anything to do with HS2, most customers arrive via a chauffeur. When night-time restrictions were in place in the wee hours around London, SEN did well as did BHX to a lessor extent but some of that was slash & dash traffic not demanding bigger facilities. Are they strapped for Apron space?
Perhaps you have heard about a project in Birmingham Alabama, I'm sure they would like to get in there rather than Huntsville?

[southside bobby]

Quote...

..."but some of that was slash & dash traffic not demanding bigger facilities"...

So just toilets then we guess...

[compton3bravo]

I think the phrase is splash and dash, forget the p, oh wait a minute! Sorry, just trying to cheer everybody up.

[pabely]

Correct, wrong type of hose in use!

[pabely]

A determined F50 holding waiting for snow clearing to finish, but are the staff numbers working to get the job done?
Edit, job done. Open again

[davidjohnson6]

New route (yes, those magic words) to Sarajevo 2x weekly from 21 May with Wizz

[Spanish eyes]

It’s a joke, midweek the airport is empty but come the weekend everyone is making an essential journey. There are some serious questions that need answering. I also doubt there is a single person that is going into quarantine.

Plenty of kissing and cuddling in arrivals on Fridays so inbound families are sharing homes

[avidspotter]

Well blow me down! Looks like there may be a new airline on the horizon https://flyone.eu/en/ that's if there are no restrictions!

[davidjohnson6]

Are FlyOne perhaps just moving from Southend to Luton ?

[BA318]

Spanish eyes

You are allowed to stay with others when arriving. If from the red list countries the whole house had to isolate (irrelevant now). Plenty of people also commute meaning they travel at weekends. I fly weekly and usually go home on Friday and back on Sunday/Monday depending on flight availability.

As for whether every passenger ignores quarantine I doubt it. If you have evidence to prove otherwise I suggest you share it with the authorities.

[pabely]

davidjohnson6

Looks like it and quite bold to go up against Wizzair although both depart Luton very late in evening. Perhaps with SEN being almost mothballed currently they have been forced to look elsewhere for such a schedule, at those times only LTN & LHR open for pax.

[AirportPlanner1]

Southend to Luton via Gatwick. Originally LGW was on sale for 2021 rather than SEN so perhaps now LGW don’t want the cost of opening so late for them either.

[gilesdavies]

Some positive news for the LTN forum, which seems to be home to the most depressing airport thread on this forum at the moment!

easyJet have added some new routes for Summer 2021, so I think this quashes an earlier rumour that the airline were planning to close their LTN base, which I never doubted anyway:
- Sharm El Shiekh (Twice Weekly)
- Hurghada (Weekly)
- Santorini (Twice Weekly June to September)
- Preveza (Twice Weekly June to September)
- Larnaca (Twice Weekly)

Source:EasyJet holidays adds 10 routes for summer 2021 - Travel Weekly (https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/easyjet-holidays-adds-10-routes-for-summer-2021)

I think that will make Hurghada the longest scheduled route from the airport at 2457 miles.

It was mentioned in the news a few weeks ago tour operators were seeing a big jump in holiday bookings as more people were being vaccinated and the desire to travel for many, can't come soon enough. These new routes must come of the back of this.

Santorini isn't exactly a new route, as I flew Wizz and easyJet on the route last October, but it disappeared as a destination this year until now, when previously only Gatwick flights where bookable. Highly recommend a visit there, before all the cruise ships start invading the island again!

I wonder if Wizz will react and possibly add Sharm El Sheikh, they are operating the route out Cardiff, which is the first time the airline has ever flown to Sharm.

[avidspotter]

Just a few days left to comment on the airport's planning application https://planning.luton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=QMRHGXKGFQH00

Would be good to see some more support!

[LGS6753]

I can't help wondering which EZY routes will be cut or reduced to permit these new services.

[LTNman]

avidspotter

No one needs to bother writing in for or against the application as the airport owner is the planning authority for planning applications related to its own airport. Something that other U.K. airports would like to have including Bristol, Leeds Bradford, Stansted and Southampton who are all struggling with planning applications. No such problems here in Luton.

[LTNman]

Manx

Yep fine although I have not posted on this thread for a month, which is why it now goes for days without any news even though there is much to report including construction updates that I have now abandoned, as even those updates brings out criticism about breaking lockdown even though I never have so I can't be bothered .

One piece of news that I will share seeing I am posting is that the government bailout of the Council has strings attached that will not go down too well regarding the airport. Remember that the Council has lent its airport company around half a billion pounds that LLAL can't pay back to the Council so the Council has lent LLAL a further £83m to help pay the interest payments on the loans that were borrowed from the Council, as well as a cost overspend on the Dart.

The offending passage from the government is below, which sounds to me that the Council might have to sell part of the airport off or sell off the loans. If they sell the loans and they can't be repaid by LLAL the Council would lose the airport to the lender of the loans.

There are further issues about the planning authority for the airport being the owner of the airport. Yes it has been noticed. It would be better for the Council to turn down the planning application from the airport operator to demonstrate that they can separate the conflict of interest but I doubt they will.

I will pop back once in a while. Bye for now

The Authority will undergo an external assurance review focused on its financial position, to be completed by the end of May 2021 unless a later date for completion is advised by the Department, and to be commissioned by MHCLG. The assurance review will also examine the Council’s commercial arrangement with Luton airport, and your ability to present a plan to Government for reducing the Council’s financial exposure to the airport, with the intention of it resulting in agreement between the Authority and the Secretary of State to address the review’s recommendations

[LGS6753]

Myself and others are interested in your insights. Please don't be put off by a few naysayers from giving us the benefit of your "inside track".

[Mr Optimistic]

That's a clause and a half......

[Buster the Bear]

Not beyond the realms of fantasy to suggest that the airport may have to be sold off. The towns folk would then lose out on what was a regular and large source of income from THEIR airport.

Anyway, good news if you like trains. London Luton Airport welcomes new direct rail service | Airport Business (http://www.airport-business.com/2021/02/london-luton-airport-welcomes-new-direct-rail-service/)

[cavokblues]

Cuts to front line services are being announced by the council with the closures of children centres whilst they bail out the airport for millions and millions.

I know none of us had a crystal ball and would have struggled to have foreseen the devastating impact 2020 and Covid would have had on aviation but, even still, the optics aren't great.

[Pain in the R's]

Nice picture of the train in the Buster link except that is not the train. The trains to be used are old flat nosed commuter trains that used to serve Southend Airport. The existing intercity EM trains are much more posher so while the service will double the comfort level will half.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_360

[Dannyboy39]

There is no way the airport should be sold off at the current point in time. A hedge or sovereign wealth fund would be able to come in and buy it for a fraction of the normal value. Yes the finances are not good at present, but no ones is - it is by far the biggest asset the town has. Can't help thinking there is some politicking at play.

[avidspotter]

Worth pointing out that the "airport" per se has not received a penny from the council. The loans are for LBC's airport company and nothing has been used to fund the operation.

[SWBKCB]

Dannyboy39

So it's OK to make profits in the good times, but when the bad times come somebody else pays?

[Spanish eyes]

Ltnman might have now stopped posting regularly as he has the huff but boy does he make up for it in a single post that is a bombshell and that has generated nine replies . Where does he get his information from as this document is not in the public arena? If he had not posted a quote we would be none the wiser.

Avidspotter wrote "Worth pointing out that the "airport" per se has not received a penny from the council. The loans are for LBC's airport company and nothing has been used to fund the operation"

Is that meant to be a good or a bad thing? Large debts and nothing to show for it. Didn't Ltnman once say that the airport company has had to borrow new money from the council to pay the interest payments on its debts to the council while public services and jobs have had to be slashed. When it gets that bad it shouldn't need the government to tell them to untie the knot.

[avidspotter]

Good question! I imagine he found the information from that top secret Government website gov.uk:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/960114/Luton_Capitalisation_Direction_10_Feb_2021__signed_.pdf

On your other question, I wasn't passing judgement, just pointing out that none of this cash has actually gone to support those affected at the airport...

[boeing_eng]

Good to see you back LTNman......Your input on this forum is much valued and those who choose to take offence should not be able stifle the debate on some very important issues...

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.air101.co.uk/2021/02/flyone-comes-to-london.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+co/fMxO+(Air101)

[southside bobby]

Blue Air anticipating going double daily on Heathrow-Bucharest from the start of Summer scheds.

[compton3bravo]

It was 50 years ago today when the UK changed to decimal currency and Luton was the major hub airport for the transfer of old and new money being transported by a variety of aircraft. I did have a movements list but it seems to have gone AWOL A mixture DC-3s, Piper Navajos and HS748 were used if my memory serves me correctly. I know this is nostalgic but thought it might be a change from recent posts.

[LGS6753]

southside bobby

According to their online summer timetable, Blue Air will be offering double daily Heathrow, plus 11x per week LTN-Bucharest and 11x per week LTN-Bacau. At present, Bacau is Luton's busiest route!

[pabely]

Wizzair are offering 4x Daily to LTN from Bucharest by the summer so that is some capacity between the two on the London Market. Bets please on who makes money and long term will Blue Air hold onto LHR slots and will have to come back to LTN?

[FRatSTN]

I suspect with Blue Air and SunEx both seemingly having duplicated services at LTN scheduled at similar, if not same times, to LHR and LGW that they're probably trying to secure slots there and just keeping LTN handy in their back-pocket if unsuccessful.

[gilesdavies]

pabely

The London Market seems to have gone Bucharest crazy!

Wizz also have daily flights out of Gatwick and Southend too, do that makes six flights a day just for Wizz!

Along with Wizz and Blue Air, you also have come the summer two daily flights with Ryanair from Stansted and three weekly from Southend!

Then on the legacy carrier front, two flights a day with BA and a daily service with TAROM, both from LHR.

[LTNman]

I have been messaged to do another construction update so for those people this is for you and thanks for your support. Note not all of these photos are mine with some coming from a source at the airport.

The opening date for the Dart has been put back until 2022 meaning the build will take 4 years to complete.

Foundations are going in for the missing section of the Dart station at Parkway. This will increase the building by a third.
https://i.imgur.com/iVUmPvn.jpg

So with the missing section of building now under construction, that will connect to the passenger footbridge over the railway tracks, what is this walkway for seeing they now have a year to finish the building?
https://i.imgur.com/wBGU1Sh.jpg

The view from the trackbed from Parkway. Note the track is protected by glass walls and sliding doors
https://i.imgur.com/MUpgNU6.jpg

View from the top of the bridge ski slope with the approach lights crossing the track. I am surprised this obstacle was allowed to be built so close to the approach. Anyone remember when a Dan-Air 727 took out the approach lights and ILS at this end of the runway? It will eventually be backlit in blue LED lighting to make it pretty at night.
https://i.imgur.com/xIu68Au.jpg

The actual ski slope structure is covered in scaffolding and has been for weeks. The road from the airport has been closed since the scaffolding went up. The cars on the left are parked up.
https://i.imgur.com/mH7A5HR.jpg

Heading towards the terminal
https://i.imgur.com/HQ4E4Qj.jpg

Under the taxiway. Note the cable in place which seems a bit thin so maybe it isn't the final version.
https://i.imgur.com/0F5rNuY.jpg

Terminal station from the trackbed. The yellow ceiling can be seen under construction with one of the escalators seen on the right
https://i.imgur.com/amrrbnH.jpg

[ericlday]

LTNman.......Thanks for the update, much appreciated.

[ClearLand08]

I also missed the construction updates, so thanks LTNman. I believe the walkway in your second picture will connect the existing rail footbridge to the DART terminal. In the last plans I saw it was always envisaged this connection would be made, even when the new footbridge is connected up. The slope in the walkway is due to the slight height difference between the existing footbridge and the DART terminal upper level.
Also, if people are interested, Google Earth updated an aerial view of the airport recently (from March 2020) - it shows the DART route, second multi-story, new taxiway and de-icing pads and of course the picture is full of parked up planes from the first lockdown.

[davidjohnson6]

ClearLand - maybe I'm missing something... but the satellite images I see of Luton airport on Google Earth show car parks absolutely full of cars, and very few aircraft on the ground - as if Covid didn't exist... is there some alternate image source you are referencing ?

[avidspotter]

Thanks for the extra detail LTNman I saw that You Tube video too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd26kx0Llqc

Didn't realise it had been delayed. Understandable due to COVID I suppose

[LTNman]

Just pulled the plans out. The walkway will locate down the side of the building on the railway platform side. The mauve shading is being paid for by Railtrack and shows the two extra canopies that the new build will contain.

https://i.imgur.com/asKfkeE.jpg

[ClearLand08]

davidjohnson6

If you click on the Historical Imagery button, it will let you go to the March 2020 image - needs to be in the Google Earth app, not showing on usual google maps website for some reason.