Luton-10

[davidjohnson6]

I agree the idea of LTN in future employing huge numbers of people *on site* is complete BS. However, the move to automate many roles is a good thing and not bad... you can be certain that BHX, EMA, STN, LGW and others are all trying to automate away as many employees as possible. Either LTN does the same, or LTN ceases to be cost competitive and loses relevancy to UK air travel. This element of competition keeps airports efficient and avoids the bad old days of a slothful and monopolistic BAA

Throughout history, we see that well developed and efficient transport infrastructure generates economic activity and employment. Those new jobs will not be minimum wage jobs at LTN airport... but instead more broadly across London and SE England. Having a significant airport in its back yard is a major asset to the economy of Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire - just like Heathrow attracts business to the Thames Valley. I suspect Silicon Fen near Cambridge would not be as significant if STN were much smaller.

100 years ago, railway stations used to have vast numbers of people working on site - far fewer do so now, yet a good rail network is essential to the UK economic well being.

Build it and jobs in the wider region will come.

[ClearLand08]

Security lanes are being reduced due to the government requirement to upgrade scanning equipment meaning less stops and searches and a much faster throughput with no 100ml liquid limit.

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/luton-airport-security-checks-set-to-get-quicker-and-easier-thanks-to-new-technology-4043749

There was also a tender out to remodel the security area.

These were already in use when I passed through the airport last week in the fast track lane and the one next two it. Definitely an improvement not having to remove anything from bags. However, I had some hand cream in the bag which flagged up on the scan. At the other side of the scanner the agent threw the small 50ml hand cream into smaller scanning machine which he said "tested it". He then told me it had "failed the test" and I couldn't have it back. So whilst the aim is to speed things up, but also ultimately to allow passengers to take more liquids in hand luggage it seems the risk of liquids being confiscated increases.

The other change introduced are the body scanners. Machines like the ones below are being installed. When I passed through last week there was actually a bit of a delay caused by these machines - possibly a combination of passengers being unfamiliar with them and also staff getting used to them.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/scanner_e8e21372939902f4b0cd704d827107cf16948dae.jpg

[boeing_eng]

davidjohnson6 - Your argument is valid if we look at the areas surrounding airports such as LHR and LGW (as the airports have world wide connections with a large amount of cargo activity)

Unless there is a drastic change in LTN's core market and the runway gets extended, LTN will never be in the same league.

Another joke about LRT's "high wage" sermons and reducing poverty in Luton.......Out of those that do earn decent wages at the airport (Pilots, ATC, Engineers etc) very few actually live in Luton!

[davidjohnson6]

If the railway disappeared.. what would happen to the economy of Crewe, Doncaster or Swindon, and their regions ? I suspect something similiar in the relationship between Luton, its region and LTN

[pabely]

First Dan Air Romania should start tomorrow.

[Falcon666]

https://www.moodiedavittreport.com/airport-retail-enterprises-uk-to-open-first-benitos-franchised-restaurant-at-luton-airport/

[LTNman]

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/transport/new-no-1-lounge-opens-in-luton-airport-with-views-over-runway-4445659

[pabely]

And a second Lounge gets an upgrade was well next year "The current Aspire Lounge will be renovated and open under the My Lounge concept in summer 2024, offering 155 seats and a self-service pantry, with design “inspired by loft-style living”.
Along with the new mezzanine floor overlooking the departure lounge replacing the current Frankie & Benny’s unit, the Departures are seeing a significant upgrade for 2024.

[LTNman]

For all of the above locations passengers have to pay to sit down. What the vast majority of passengers want is somewhere free to sit with the new mezzanine floor a major lost opportunity to provide much needed free seating.

The last set of accounts for the airport operator shows a turnover for the 13m passengers reached over £227m with an operating profit of £64m for its foreign owners. This is why everything is so expensive at Luton and in fact at all major airports, as they fleece captive passengers by taking a major cut of the income these eateries generate, which in turn means high prices for even a bottle of water.

[SWBKCB]

The last set of accounts for the airport operator shows a turnover for the 13m passengers reached over £227m with an operating profit of £64m for its foreign owners. This is why everything is so expensive at Luton and in fact at all major airports, as they fleece captive passengers by taking a major cut of the income these eateries generate, which in turn means high prices for even a bottle of water.

How much are those passengers paying to fly, and consequently how much are the airlines paying the airports? It's not fleecing, it's just a different way of funding airports.

[LTNman]

How much are those passengers paying to fly

I don’t think for a second that if airlines paid sensible fees that prices at the airport for passengers would drop.

On the positive side Luton has reluctantly become one of the few U.K. airports offering free drop off and pick ups with no physical signs of that changing anytime soon. On the negative side the walk to the pick up area is a good 12 minutes for a passenger wheeling luggage.


It will be interesting to see if the replacement MSCP2, due in 2024/25, will be a carbon copy of what was built before with its fire rating of just one hour before it collapses.

[Falcon666]

S24 initial coordination report is out but not totally accurate.
(Still showing Sun Express slots which will not happen)
Only interesting point is that new slots were requested and allocated by Ryanair for Warsaw but that is not bookable- yet ?

[pabely]

It will be interesting to see if the replacement MSCP2, due in 2024/25, will be a carbon copy of what was built before with its fire rating of just one hour before it collapses.
I think the Airports property insurance may now demand a better fire protection rating.
Full use of sprinkler systems throughout maybe challenging with the need of retardant storages close by.

[Spanish eyes]

Anyone with a long history of working at the airport will understand that the operator is not noted for joined up thinking. If they can get away with building a new car park without adequate fire suppression they will if they can save a few quid. I doubt any lesions have been learned as the view will be that lightning won’t strike twice. Others will think they are a bunch of chancers.

[davidjohnson6]

Anyone with a long history of working at the airport will understand that the operator is not noted for joined up thinking. If they can get away with building a new car park without adequate fire suppression they will if they can save a few quid. I doubt any lesions have been learned as the view will be that lightning won’t strike twice. Others will think they are a bunch of chancers.
There may well be a view that lightning won't strike twice... but the car park insurer will likely give its "advice" prior to any new construction activity, and how following or ignoring this advice may affect willingness to insure and likely premiums in the future. That advice may affect opinion of airport senior management. I'm definitely with pabely on this.

[LTNman]

If they fit enhanced protection to a new MSCP2 it will be hard to justify not retrofitting suppression to MSCP1, as it is a mirror of the one that burned down.

Meanwhile

https://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/23993868.luton-airport-expansion-plan-apposed-hertfordshire/

COUNTY councillors say they are "vehemently opposed" to plans to increase passenger numbers at Luton Airport – and that NO conditions could make it acceptable.
​​​​​​​

[pabely]

You missed highlighting this bit "Leader of the county council Cllr Richard Roberts was not permitted to vote or take part in the airport debate – after declaring that his wife was a non executive director of EasyJet, which has its headquarters at Luton."

[LTNman]

Good that he declared an interest unlike the directors of LRT, who are Luton Councillors and who openly refused to declare an interest in a vote over whether the airport should fund a residential parking scheme due to passengers parking in residential areas to avoid car park fees.

[Lee Baker Street]

Good that he declared an interest unlike the directors of LRT, who are Luton Councillors and who openly refused to declare an interest in a vote over whether the airport should fund a residential parking scheme due to passengers parking in residential areas to avoid car park fees.

Not surprising really as they all have a long history of acting against the public interest of local residents by following the party line.

I think it’s fantastic that 1,200 direct employees of Luton Airport are residents of St Albans and residents of North Hertfordshire are equally employed. In addition it is great that Hertfordshire folk and in particular those living in the Dacorum area fly from their local airport.

[pabely]

I think it’s fantastic that 1,200 direct employees of Luton Airport are residents of St Albans and residents of North Hertfordshire are equally employed. In addition it is great that Hertfordshire folk and in particular those living in the Dacorum area fly from their local airport.
Of course it is and with property costs being much higher in those areas I suspect a good number are well paid jobs. Add to that non direct jobs in supporting industries that is a good number of local voters.
Where were all these councillors & MPs during the Stansted expansion debate a few years ago if that is their real agenda.
As a good friend of mine says ( who spouts green agenda all day long ) we have to save the planet but when drilled would not give up his x4 year holidays to (Cape) Verde or skiing in the winter. He even criticises TUI for not offering summer flights from his local airport and has to go from Gatwick! But looks forward to Jet2 offering sometime from Stansted.

[LTNman]

Of course it is and with property costs being much higher in those areas I suspect a good number are well paid jobs.


The poorly paid jobs, which is the majority of the proposed new jobs airport expansion might bring, will go to people living in Luton. Those with money tend not to live in third world Luton with is social and economic problems brought on in part due to its airport.

In March, 37% of universal credit recipients in Luton were employed, and 18,762 households were receiving the benefit. Many of those will be working at the airport.

Sam Tims, economist at the New Economics Foundation think tank, said: "inadequate levels of support" combined with low pay and insecure work was forcing people receiving benefits into difficult decisions.


Examples of insecure work includes working at the airport on part time contracts or seasonal work. To be competitive the last thing LRT needs is well paid jobs for the majority of the workforce. They talk the talk about ending poverty yet do nothing except trying to creat more low paid jobs so people living in St Albans can bang a bargain and get away more often.

[pabely]

S24 initial coordination report is out but not totally accurate.
(Still showing Sun Express slots which will not happen)
Only interesting point is that new slots were requested and allocated by Ryanair for Warsaw but that is not bookable- yet ?
Also interesting is EL Al increases, 780 slots over 30 weeks = 26 / week, almost double daily again throughout. Assuming no flight on Saturday then maybe x3 Friday. Their booking engine does not show anything but that is expected at the moment. Keeps them happy in not being forced over to STN yet STN remains in their booking engine as a destination but no flights bookable.
I would assume Dan Air Romania are using some of the Sun Express/Blue Air slots. They stated their focus would be Brașov but Wizz Air might have killed that idea, maybe that will come later.
Yet again Transavia France try, seems to be a regular request.
All in all enough space for something new, even if from the existing major players. I for one, expect AMM and IST will see double daily's at some point. New being Tbilisi and Baku and a long shot Almaty once the A321XLRs start to arrive. They openly say they are going East and are on record saying "The first Airbus A321XLRs to join Wizz Air's fleet will likely be based with its subsidiaries in Abu Dhabi and the UK once deliveries begin next year".

[pabely]

The poorly paid jobs, which is the majority of the proposed new jobs airport expansion might bring, will go to people living in Luton. Those with money tend not to live in third world Luton with is social and economic problems brought on in part due to its airport.

In March, 37% of universal credit recipients in Luton were employed, and 18,762 households were receiving the benefit. Many of those will be working at the airport.



Examples of insecure work includes working at the airport on part time contracts or seasonal work. To be competitive the last thing LRT needs is well paid jobs for the majority of the workforce. They talk the talk about ending poverty yet do nothing except trying to creat more low paid jobs so people living in St Albans can bang a bargain and get away more often.
Your beef is always against the council. If the Airport was sold off for short term profits so no link to council would your views change? Long term profits disappear over to Spain, China or Saudi.
Won't change the jobs available and in fact with more automation and AI there will be less of them.
One could argue things started to go wrong with Luton with the Car Industry.
Vauxhall & Renault Trucks were big employers. It's labour became unproductive and expensive vs what was on offer elsewhere. Swindon & Dagenham found out as well and had to adapt.
Your solution is...........?

[LTNman]

Seeing you are asking the airport should be kept under the ownership of the council but greed and incompetence took over as income to LRT from the airport is being used for debt interest payments instead of dividends, which remain at zero.

If the airport was left at 18m then that would secure the airports future. It is now looking like LRT will borrow more money to finance phase 1 if approved, which further risks the airport of a takeover. The whole point of the concession is that the concessionaire takes the risks.

Let’s not forget that LRT is only here today due to a bailout by a council despite being created as a zero risk company to just collect concession fees and rents with no staff.

The town needs diversity not a single source employment choice for job creation where 24/7 becomes the only option.

These are all points I have said before so it is time to move on and get back to the airport, as no one is interested in my rants.

[Dannyboy39]

I think it’s fantastic that 1,200 direct employees of Luton Airport are residents of St Albans and residents of North Hertfordshire are equally employed. In addition it is great that Hertfordshire folk and in particular those living in the Dacorum area fly from their local airport.
Because the vast majority of their constituents who actually vote in local elections are aged over 75…

[Dannyboy39]

These are all points I have said before so it is time to move on and get back to the airport, as no one is interested in my rants.
You make some very valid points but it’s clouded by your clear and vehement dislike of LBC. They are certainly not my cup of tea either and some of them should not be in post due to lack of qualification, but they have a million priorities to consider and their priority is to get people employed. Why don’t you put yourself up? We do live in a democracy.

The town actually is very strong in terms of SMEs registered in the town. Although it is clear that to the council I’m sure that diversity in employment is needed… this doesn’t happen overnight in what is already an overcrowded town.

In terms of the airport itself, I am certainly torn as to its future. 50% of me thinks that it should be sold, or maybe partly, to private investment but the other 50% recognises, as has been pointed out above, is that it’s then run for profit with them funnelled to other projects in other countries.

[gdiddy]

I notice Wizz are going double daily on the Luton to Istanbul route on Tuesday's and Saturdays, from April or May next year.

Interestingly the Gatwick to Istanbul route is operating twice daily five days a week next summer and the days it does not operate twice daily, are the days its flown twice daily from LTN.

[pabely]

I notice Wizz are going double daily on the Luton to Istanbul route on Tuesday's and Saturdays, from April or May next year.

Interestingly the Gatwick to Istanbul route is operating twice daily five days a week next summer and the days it does not operate twice daily, are the days its flown twice daily from LTN.
Slot restrictions at LTN or LGW?
If LTN gets the green light for phase 1 expansion to 21/22m pax then this has potential for x4 daily like some of their other trunk routes.

[davidjohnson6]

TK are not cheap. Yes, good service, but it comes at a price.
I suspect a lot of the LTN/LGW-IST traffic is people self-connecting at IST to domestic flights inside Turkey or to Ercan airport on the island of Cyprus. SAW has a fraction of the domestic flights that IST has

[LGS6753]

It's all the Turkish barbers going home for a haircut.

[pabely]

Wizzair at one point tried to setup a Turkish unit, wouldn't surprise me if that will being tried again as there is still loads of capacity available at Istanbul to join Wizzair hub dots further.

[PAXboy]

TK are not cheap. Yes, good service, but it comes at a price.

Service in the air (Biz) was indeed good. Service on the ground at IST was terrible. I was connecting to another TK flight and every single desk agent had no interest in me, I was constantly fobbed off with wrong information - and saw the same happening to other pax. Never again.

[pabely]

Luton Airport your next destination to visit Universal Studios Resort?
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/nbcuniversal-new-theme-park-uk-outside-london-1235766019/

[davidjohnson6]

How long would it likely take to get a theme park open ? 5 years ? More ? Less ?

[SWBKCB]

From the linked article:

“We recently acquired land in Bedford and are at the early stages of exploring its feasibility for a potential park and resort at this site,” the spokesperson says. “It will be many months before we are ready to make a decision to proceed and we look forward to engaging with all relevant stakeholders and the local community.”The move — if it does come to fruition — would mark a further expansion of Universal’s theme parks business, and comes as the company is in the middle of building two new parks: Epic Universe in Orlando, and Universal Kids in Frisco, Texas.

The company is expected to proceed slowly, and a source cautions that it will be some time before any firm decision is made. The U.K.’s large population and robust tourism sector, combined with its location, are seen as attractive attributes for a park.

I'd say 'more'

[pabely]

Bedford has been chosen as a potential location due to its excellent transportation connectivity to London and Europe, with more than half of the UK population within a two hour journey away.Additionally, the town is seen as having potential because of its close proximity to Luton airport.
More of a case for expansion at Luton Airport then!

[LTNman]

The airport already has a very popular tourist attraction that opened on October 10th and can be viewed from just metres away from a viewing platform and all for free.

[davidjohnson6]

The airport already has a very popular tourist attraction that opened on October 10th and can be viewed from just metres away and all for free.
LTNman - a large theme park would do a lot to bring money into Bedfordshire. That's people coming to visit Bedfordshire and seeing the area as a place to spend money, rather than it all benefitting hotels and restaurants in other countries. It includes people from other countries wanting to come to Bedfordshire. Perhaps one could look at the positives rather than considering this equal to a highly destructive fire ?

[Falcon666]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/828x1348/img_4637_484da5616a80c4448ebb4402e8550e8ae3a8f6fc.jpeg
This is the land acquired- it is the old Stewertby brickworks site that was originally going to be the site for the NIRAH Project. Great news that others around the world see Bedfordshire as the ideal location but if it does go ahead I can see it being 8-10 years. LTNman need not worry , I am sure there will be plenty of low paid jobs there as well.

[LTNman]

LTNman - a large theme park would do a lot to bring money into Bedfordshire.

Let’s not forget Luton is the WB Harry Potter tour’s closest airport and London is only 30 minutes away.

[pabely]

Perhaps we will see full size Buster the Bears dancing about next to Supermen & Harry Potter Wizzards!

[dc9-32]

Luton already has a theme park located on top of a hill and has it's own runway.

[TartinTon]

Luton already has a theme park located on top of a hill and has it's own runway.

Not sure if you've used the airport lately but it has changed out of all recognition. I hadn't used it for about 3-4 years until a month or so ago. It used to be a complete joke of an airport. I used the dart which was fast and efficient. The changes to the terminal were impressive. Security was quick and efficient. Boarding was the usual Easyjet shambles but that's not down to the airport. Arrivals were the usual speedy process that they had always been when using LTN (it was a domestic flight). Overall a massive improvement to my previous horrendous experiences so fair play to the management.

[Lee Baker Street]

Seeing you are asking the airport should be kept under the ownership of the council but greed and incompetence took over as income to LRT from the airport is being used for debt interest payments instead of dividends, which remain at zero.

If the airport was left at 18m then that would secure the airports future. It is now looking like LRT will borrow more money to finance phase 1 if approved, which further risks the airport of a takeover. The whole point of the concession is that the concessionaire takes the risks.

Let’s not forget that LRT is only here today due to a bailout by a council despite being created as a zero risk company to just collect concession fees and rents with no staff.

The town needs diversity not a single source employment choice for job creation where 24/7 becomes the only option.

These are all points I have said before so it is time to move on and get back to the airport, as no one is interested in my rants.

LTNman You have good intentions I am sure but I guess most of us in this forum are excited by the airport expansion and the benefits it brings to the town. You mention Luton being a 3rd world town and you mention 30 percent plus claiming some form of benefits. What you failed to mention is that a lot of residents are re-homed from other councils because (as an example) the likes of St Albans and Harpenden do not welcome the poor, In effect they want to be exclusive. Having read various comments over the years relating to the airport I recall statements in which they say they get ‘nothing out of it’.But they do. They have several thousand residents working at the airport and get to not offer social housing to outsiders and they; I am sure do not open their arms to migrants or boat people claiming asylum. The Government always sends these people to our town as they don’t want to upset those in South Hertfordshire! We need jobs to get people in work! The airport has the potential to turn around our towns fortunes! Finally wishing you a Merry Christmas and happy New Year.

[pabely]

I note that Easyjet put out a press announcement that they are expecting their busiest Christmas Day programme this year, not specifically mentioning Luton but the EU bases- Wizzair near normal as usual and with Farnborough & Biggin closed a big influx of the normal NetJets/Vista. Happy Holidays!

[Spanish eyes]

There are once again massive traffic queues to get to the airport today due to a lack of a dedicated drop off area that is playing havoc with staff trying to get to work. Please consider using another airport or travel by train if you can.

[pabely]

There are once again massive traffic queues to get to the airport today due to a lack of a dedicated drop off area that is playing havoc with staff trying to get to work. Please consider using another airport or travel by train if you can.
What an absolutly stupid comment.
it's busy everywhere, the public want to get away for Christmas & New Year, you should accommodate your journey accordingly.

[Spanish eyes]

You’re a spotter so what do you know. It is not as stupid as you think. There are many passengers walking up the hill after being dropped off over half a mile from the airport with many passengers missing their flights due to turning up at the gates late.

The airport is in the position of being incapable of handing passengers outside of November that their drop off facilities can handle. Facilities that are a 10 to 15 minute walk from the terminal.

[davidjohnson6]

Is this the bus company that told the drivers not to stop at bus stops, regardless of number of people waiting, because the passengers getting on and off delayed the buses and made them look non-punctual ?

LTN has had over 2 months to figure out what to do for Xmas post-fire. Everyone knew that there would be a big exodus from London shortly before 25 Dec... it happens every year (war and pandemics excepted). Capacity planning and workarounds should have been in place with over 2 months notice.
At the very least, multiple emails could have been sent to pax begging them not to drive to the airport at peak periods, as well as putting flashing red messages on the LTN website to the same effect. Cheap, effective, easy to do, but but seems nobody could be bothered to do this.
The Xmas peak is just a few days... perhaps somebody might like to start thinking about what to do for summer 2024 ?

Operations Manager Surface Access, Head of Marketing and Communications, Head of Passenger Services... perhaps the three of you might like to have a chat about this ?

[Cazza_fly]

Is this the bus company that told the drivers not to stop at bus stops, regardless of number of people waiting, because the passengers getting on and off delayed the buses and made them look non-punctual ?

LTN has had over 2 months to figure out what to do for Xmas post-fire. Everyone knew that there would be a big exodus from London shortly before 25 Dec... it happens every year (war and pandemics excepted). Capacity planning and workarounds should have been in place with over 2 months notice.
At the very least, multiple emails could have been sent to pax begging them not to drive to the airport at peak periods, as well as putting flashing red messages on the LTN website to the same effect. Cheap, effective, easy to do, but but seems nobody could be bothered to do this.
The Xmas peak is just a few days... perhaps somebody might like to start thinking about what to do for summer 2024 ?

Operations Manager Surface Access, Head of Marketing and Communications, Head of Passenger Services... perhaps the three of you might like to have a chat about this ?

Couldn't agree more. Of course this time of year is extremely busy and some congestion is to be expected... However, the tools that are available to get as much information and as many messages out there as possible, just has not been used. Ultimately it is just lack of basic customer service. All these tools and medias are pretty much free for the airport to use also. Signage, emails, website messages and social media posts - all the basics to spread some information and to ready as many people as possible just wasted.

[Spanish eyes]

Seven minutes past midnight and the queue starts just about by the railway bridge over the A505 which is a good mile.

[Silver Back]

And the Dart not running on the 25th and 26th December as per the LLA web site.

[pabely]

And the Dart not running on the 25th and 26th December as per the LLA web site.
As no Thameslink trains running, not surprised.

[Spanish eyes]

The airport is gridlocked with traffic now passing Capability Green at around 1.7 miles. Passengers are not even making it airside now with their flights already closed causing Christmas misery.. Time for the airport to declare a realistic cap due to operational reasons. I would suggest a maximum of a million passengers a month.
https://i.imgur.com/wPEX9hC.jpg

[pabely]

The airport is gridlocked with traffic now passing Capability Green at around 1.7 miles. Passengers are not even making it airside now with their flights already closed. Time for the airport to declare a realistic cap due to operational reasons. I would suggest a maximum of a million passengers a month.
https://i.imgur.com/wPEX9hC.jpg
Send 40% of flights to STN - ops, it dangerous queuing back onto the M11 there!
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/screenshot_20231223_160022_maps_2ddf4b3c02498d823b0dfa2d72f1 d3c88fd16e20.jpg
Perhaps some should only be allowed one way travel?
https://theglobalherald.com/news/thats-absolutely-outrageous-asylum-seekers-flying-home-for-christmas-border-chief-reveals/

[davidjohnson6]

Slashing airport capacity by about 33 % seems a little drastic. Could LTN not just push *really* hard to persuade pax to use public transport instead ? Use the website and email to communicate this. Maybe also reduce the DART price temporarily and have extra buses to places poorly served by public transport like Milton Keynes and Stevenage. Perhaps have an additional temporary toll for access on the private road leading to the airport from the Holiday Inn.

The fire should not mean the terminal and runway be under-utilised... just a need to push people hard away from car travel and towards public transport.

It's too late to solve for Xmas 2023... but there's 3 months to do something in time for Easter 2024

[Spanish eyes]

Send 40% of flights to STN - ops, it dangerous queuing back onto the M11 there!
​​​​​​​

Not today
https://i.imgur.com/D6xY3i2.jpg

[22/04]

I worked on a project called last mile about ten years ago. Drop off is the least efficient and most environmentally unfriendly way to go to a railway station an airport etc. two journeys for every one really necessary. Yet it is very difficult to persuade people to change - even pricing doesn't work - all want to say "bye darling" it seems. As a single guy not an option open to me!

[Buster the Bear]

Perhaps we will see full size Buster the Bears dancing about next to Supermen & Harry Potter Wizzards!

Yes! Yrok Aviation have already been in touch :) Image rights are the issue, Mr Grumpy claims he was Buster first!!

[pabely]

More people forced off trains to airport today
http://BBC News - Faults cause major disruption on London to Luton trains https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67827306

[PAXboy]

Very little is going to move pax away from cars.

Busses are not numerous enough, as there is no enjoyment in dragging cases (and possibly children) 10 mins to the bus stop - then it might require a change of bus. Allowing for changes and delays, the time factor can be enormous.
Trains are only helpful if you live near the station on the line that goes to the airport. If you do not, and have a lift/taxi to the correct station - you might as well go direct to the airport. Allowing for changes and delays, the time factor can be enormous.

If the DART had had a big drop off / collection area and a low fare ride - it 'might' have been a solution. But, no capital project gets the go ahead on just making life easier for the customers. It must (at least on paper) make a profit.

Therefore, personal car/taxi drop off and collection will continue.

[davidjohnson6]

I get that for many people, car is the easiest way to/from LTN. However we have seen that the approach road before Xmas cannot cope with the temporary drop-off area. We know from experience in previous years that at Easter and July/August, this bunged-up approach road situation is going to be significantly worse. We also know that the burnt-out car park will not be rebuilt and ready for use in 2024.

What *should* LTN do to manage traffic to/from the airport ? Waving hands in the air and saying nothing can be done is pretty lame.

[PAXboy]

A very fair question.

In the short term - very little! But, until the car park is rebuilt (min 2 years) could they set up a Park n Ride away from the mid-term? Could they hire one of the car parks oppsoite the industrial buildings on Vauxhall Way?
If they can make something that is free or VERY much cheaper than the current drop off?
Could they seek to limit the current drop off numbers or expand the mid-term drop off areas?

Somebody must be cursing that they didn't put a Dart station in the mid-term!

[geriatrix]

Might be worthwhile trying to tempt National Express or some other bus/coach operator to increase the number of routes that serve LTN. There used to be a service from High Wycombe, but that was diverted away. There is now no practical way to get from High Wycombe to Luton Airport other than going into London or possibly Oxford and back out again. At least, I couldn't find one and I'd love to be proved wrong.

[pabely]

I think the question is why owns that land and access to it via the original Airport Way and roundabouts.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/screenshot_20231228_200023_maps_bdec0ea6a8e06d4a3db338cca098 eb0340adb229.jpg

[planedrive]

I think the question is why owns that land and access to it via the original Airport Way and roundabouts.


It was at one point owned by easyJet as it was to be their new headquarters. Whether it still is, I don't know.

[TartinTon]

Might be worthwhile trying to tempt National Express or some other bus/coach operator to increase the number of routes that serve LTN. There used to be a service from High Wycombe, but that was diverted away. There is now no practical way to get from High Wycombe to Luton Airport other than going into London or possibly Oxford and back out again. At least, I couldn't find one and I'd love to be proved wrong.

They did the same for Hemel Hempstead. The 707 bus route still stops in Hemel to pick up and drop off but not if you're going to/from LTN! So it's actually easier and cheaper for me to go to LHR than to LTN thanks to National Express muppetry. I've asked them why and got no sensible answer. They suggest I pay for a ticket to Milton Keynes and tell the bus driver I'm getting off at LTN. Bunch of clowns. The least worst option from Hemel seems to be parking at St Albans and using the train/dart. This is relatively painless. So that's a town of just under 100k population, 12 miles away, that can't reasonably use it's closest airport. Ridiculous.

[PAXboy]

I would have thought it worth investigating as it is adjacent to the boundary and temporary access would be possible. as pabley highlights, there is already a route into Airport Way. The car parks have, naturally, direct access from the main road at the roundabout - they might need a set of traffic lights. This would take a considerable degree of pressure off the mid-term arrangement. According to G maps, part of the parking area is already being used by Airparks Shortrun.

In the famous words "How difficult can it be?"

[pabely]

It was at one point owned by easyJet as it was to be their new headquarters. Whether it still is, I don't know.
Isn't that the area further North, just below the ex Shell Petrol Station?

[PAXboy]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1316x644/ltn_ej_b542f66b5d3be91633c5ca8a2a4e4ccd6d26282a.png
This just clipped from Google Maps. I have marked four labels relating to parking that show up.

[pabely]

I see today's Dan Air Romania is off to Liverpool from Luton, extra flight for them?
Not sure if I would like a flight to Bacau via an airport 180 degrees in wrong direction!

[davidjohnson6]

Wizzair have been flying Luton to Amman for about a year now - the continuation of flights suggests it's working for them.
I'm wondering why they don't resume Kutaisi or start Yerevan which are a similiar distance from Luton as Amman, particularly as the UK has no nonstop link to either Georgia or Armenia.
Do these routes both need subsidy money or is there another story behind this ?
Armenian-registered airlines seem likely to all stay on the EU forbidden list for at least the next 12 months... and with Turkey and Azerbaijan as neighbours, air routes are critical to the country. Seems an ideal opportunity for Wizzair to do a land grab of market share of Europe-Armenia routes while potential competitors are stuck in "jail"

[pabely]

Wizzair have been flying Luton to Amman for about a year now - the continuation of flights suggests it's working for them.
I'm wondering why they don't resume Kutaisi or start Yerevan which are a similiar distance from Luton as Amman, particularly as the UK has no nonstop link to either Georgia or Armenia.
Do these routes both need subsidy money or is there another story behind this ?
Armenian-registered airlines seem likely to all stay on the EU forbidden list for at least the next 12 months... and with Turkey and Azerbaijan as neighbours, air routes are critical to the country. Seems an ideal opportunity for Wizzair to do a land grab of market share of Europe-Armenia routes while potential competitors are stuck in "jail"
I'm sure both are on the Wizzair radar but current engine issues are holding things back, on paper WUK have plenty of aircraft but only recently they had to charter in Titan aircraft to cover Luton shedules. Then their is the question of slot availability, it doesn't look like Luton is going to get the green light for 19m next year but with a likely pax limit again, from the UK Gov, 2025 could be a likely expansion phase again. I suspect AMM & IST will go x2 daily as well, IST maybe more. Wizzair are used to x4 daily on some of their trunk routes and that is with a good deal of competition in Essex.

[Alloy]

As well as Wizz engine issues, I think crew retention, particularly of captains (FOs are for better or worse, easier to replace) due to poor working conditions compared to what else is offered in the U.K., particularly the comparatively low basic salary and roster instability.

[Spanish eyes]

There is no Dart due to the weather, as it can’t operate safely in windy conditions. You can’t make it up.

I hear the exposed long walk from the wrong end of the mid term, which is the pick up area, is challenging.

[pabely]

There is no Dart due to the weather, as it can’t operate safely in windy conditions. You can’t make it up.

I hear the exposed long walk from the wrong end of the mid term, which is the pick up area, is challenging.
A Few Diversions at LGW & LHR today due to the weather.
I suppose the DART should have been totally underground- that would have saved a few lost hours not running but would have cost???.
BTW Newark Airport in US has just ordered a similar system at it's airport which will run a similar distance to Luton's but for a more mouth watering cost.

[davidjohnson6]

There is no Dart due to the weather, as it can’t operate safely in windy conditions. You can’t make it up.
I hear the exposed long walk from the wrong end of the mid term, which is the pick up area, is challenging.
LTN is a LCC airport. Not an intercontinental hub full of people paying thousands of pounds to travel on lie flat beds. LCC airport.
There are buses shuttling between terminal and the rail station.... most people seem to manage a 5 or 10 minute bus ride without recurring nightmares. If you're really in a hurry, there are taxis. If you want to save money, it's just over a mile to walk.
If you want 100% reliable comfort, it costs serious money. If you want to fly for £20, occasionally stuff will go slightly wrong.
In life you get what you pay for.

[Spanish eyes]

If you want 100% reliable comfort, it costs serious money. If you want to fly for £20, occasionally stuff will go slightly wrong.
In life you get what you pay for.

Didn’t the Dart cost over £300 million for one mile of track with a single ticket costing a quarter of a £20 airfare? I would say that is serious money.

[Dannyboy39]

There is no Dart due to the weather, as it can’t operate safely in windy conditions. You can’t make it up.

I hear the exposed long walk from the wrong end of the mid term, which is the pick up area, is challenging.
Whisper it quietly but aircraft worth $10Ms can’t operate safely in strong winds either…

[Spanish eyes]

I didn’t see any diversions or cancellations yesterday at Luton apart from the Dart. It would seem its streamlined shape for cutting through the air at a sedate 15mph was not enough to save the service seeing it is physically attached to the track using guide rails. Can it operate in the snow? I was somewhat disappointed at yesterday’s cancelled services as I expected it to run in all weather conditions.

[compton3bravo]

According to my information no aircraft diverted from Luton, they did have one executive aircraft divert from London City.

[pabely]

Twitter account said "Attention: Due to significant wind conditions, the #LutonDART (https://twitter.com/hashtag/LutonDART?src=hashtag_click) service is on a temporary hold. Replacement bus services are in operation. Please allocate extra time for your journey."
At the time wasn't the Dartford Road crossing over the Thames suspended?
Maybe there is a H&S clause once wind conditions go over a curtain amount?

[SWBKCB]

Don't think the Dartford Road crossing is comparable to the DART, for the reasons stated by Spanish Eyes. Same for aircraft - slightly different operational environments... :rolleyes:

[22/04]

It was gusting 54 knots at Luton yesterday. That is a very rare event.

[Captain_Caveman]

According to my information no aircraft diverted from Luton, they did have one executive aircraft divert from London City.

there were no diverts but ground handling and refuelling was suspended for over one hour due to the winds

[SWBKCB]

It was gusting 54 knots at Luton yesterday. That is a very rare event.

This chart suggests it's occurred every year in the past ten, so not very rare.

https://windy.app/forecast2/spot/243815/London+Luton+Airport/statistics

[crunchynutter]

3/1/24 The demolition begins
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1598x1199/20240103_165330_008371a653fb900fa6ed6adb6ea62563c89102f7.jpg

[LGS6753]

Looks as though the demolition has started with cars still inside.

[Mr Optimistic]

Seeing you are asking the airport should be kept under the ownership of the council but greed and incompetence took over as income to LRT from the airport is being used for debt interest payments instead of dividends, which remain at zero.

If the airport was left at 18m then that would secure the airports future. It is now looking like LRT will borrow more money to finance phase 1 if approved, which further risks the airport of a takeover. The whole point of the concession is that the concessionaire takes the risks.

Let’s not forget that LRT is only here today due to a bailout by a council despite being created as a zero risk company to just collect concession fees and rents with no staff.

The town needs diversity not a single source employment choice for job creation where 24/7 becomes the only option.

These are all points I have said before so it is time to move on and get back to the airport, as no one is interested in my rants.

I enjoyed reading your posts, unfortunately conflicts of interest seem to be tolerated in local government. Here in Bedford we have the scandal of EWR route selection and the involvement of the past mayor and his cronies. These matters don't even need a whistle-blower as the prima facie evidence sits in broad daylight. Even posts on pprune won't have any effect :).

[crunchynutter]

Looks as though the demolition has started with cars still inside.
Yes indeed, cars still in the car park and still on the top floor, I think the removal of cars from the roof was stopped because of either high winds or the cranes were interfering with the ILS

[horatio_b]

Since the fire, and no doubt as a result of it, the government has issued new guidelines outlining some design aspects to be considered in multi-storey car park design for EVs.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64ac2988b504f7000ccdb8aa/covered-car-parks-fire-safety-guidance-for-electric-vehicles.pdf

Among these are:• Suppression systems

• Increased structural fire resistances

• Distance between parked cars

• Firefighting water supplies

• Water run-off control and containment

• Locations and features of EV chargepoints

• Enhanced smoke management systems

• Thermal imaging cameras and other early detection methods, to enable early intervention

This looks likely to significantly increase the cost compared to the original car park, with potentially reduced revenue from wider spacing between vehicles.

[PAXboy]

Over the last 20 years almost every new parking space - indoors out out - has had the spaces marked smaller. This, I suspect, is to pretend that they have provided more spaces than they have. Over the same time, it is well known that vehicles have got bigger. My car is a very reglar size and I find that some parking spaces are too small for it - if you then want to get out between you and the next vehicle.

[Buster the Bear]

Over the last 20 years almost every new parking space - indoors out out - has had the spaces marked smaller. This, I suspect, is to pretend that they have provided more spaces than they have. Over the same time, it is well known that vehicles have got bigger. My car is a vbery ruglar size and I find that some parking spaces are too small for it - if you then want to get out between you and the next vehicle.

Buster was going to buy a Toyota Supra, but car parking sizes meant that I might have been able to get out of the car, but depending upon how close another car parked alongside, unable to get back in! :) Just like many SUVs, cars designed for American sized car parking spaces.

What is the timescale for the replacement multi storey to be opened? Mega lost income for the airport during the interim. Getting reimbursed might take years, if the settlements end up in the courts.

[pabely]

there were no diverts but ground handling and refuelling was suspended for over one hour due to the winds
So there were significant issues at the time. I would think a temporary suspension of the DART service was prudent.

[Spanish eyes]

More of a case of Luton Rising having no faith in the product seeing that one third of it is underground, one third is in a deep cutting while only one third is above the ground but below the runway and hill top.

[pabely]

Buster was going to buy a Toyota Supra, but car parking sizes meant that I might have been able to get out of the car, but depending upon how close another car parked alongside, unable to get back in! :) Just like many SUVs, cars designed for American sized car parking spaces.

What is the timescale for the replacement multi storey to be opened? Mega lost income for the airport during the interim. Getting reimbursed might take years, if the settlements end up in the courts.
16 weeks to remove CP2
http://BBC News - Dismantling of Luton Airport's fire-hit car park starts https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67877365

[Captain_Caveman]

More of a case of Luton Rising having no faith in the product seeing that one third of it is underground, one third is in a deep cutting while only one third is above the ground but below the runway and hill top.

nothing to do with no faith… have you not heard of recommended manufacturers safety limits and guidelines. Do you seriously think that after the multi story car park fire, they would risk running the Dart in wind speeds such as that and exceeding the limits of operation?
if you have health and safety responsibilities then you have to take them seriously. One third of that track is exposed, doesn’t matter if it is 100 metres of track or 1000 metres of track, it is still exposed.

i think there are a few people on this forum that just like to have a dig because they don’t get any come back to their comments but they don’t actually have a clue of operating a business in the real world.

[Spanish eyes]

Just an observation but the trains operated, the buses operated, the aircraft operated but the £300m plus Dart couldn’t and it wasn’t even a crosswind but straight down the track. Is it your opinion that the Dart could have been blown off the tracks?

As for manufacturers safety limits, if the Dart was the manufacturer’s cable car than it could have operated in up to 100km winds according to their website. It seems something that is attached to the ground can’t but maybe the track was built on the cheap?

[pabely]

It may not have been a wind issue as you say "one third is in a deep cutting"
Maybe risk of rainfall collection.
We have all seen what has occurred in the Road tunnel before.

[pabely]

Always a hot topic on this forum
https://simpleflying.com/london-gatwick-airport-raises-drop-off-charges/

[crunchynutter]

Would it be a good idea that when the car park has been demolished to use half of that area as a drop off zone during the summer while rebuilding starts on the new mscp. Just a thought.

[LTNman]

The airport needs a massive reduction in its capacity this summer. It’s not going to happen, as it is all about greed with many people who are booking flights and holidays through Luton missing their flights in the summer ahead. It’s a scandal, as we can all see what is going to happen.

[davidjohnson6]

The airport needs a massive reduction in its capacity this summer. It’s not going to happen, as it is all about greed with many people who are booking flights and holidays through Luton missing their flights in the summer ahead. It’s a scandal, as we can all see what is going to happen.
Wait for Easter or early May or at worst case the end of May... it'll all spill into the press and pax will get the message to either avoid LTN or take the train.

[PAXboy]

pabely Highlights the increase in drop off charge at LGW.
When asked how the airport can justify such an increase, a representative of LGW responded that the company believes “that increasing the charge will help reduce congestion, allow us to reinvest in sustainable transport, and encourage more passengers and staff to use public transport to reach the airport.”
Well they WOULD say that wouldn't they? My guess is that the increase will make no change to the number of vehicle drop-offs, the cost would have to be considerably higher to do that. Staying with other airports - but on the same theme:

Family coming back from European christmas with inlaws into LHR, had many extra suitcases of goodies. They tried to book a people carrier sized Taxi that, crucially, also had a child seat for their 2 year old. The only offer was going to cost over £160. Thus it was cheaper for two cars from the family (one with the child seat) to drive the 56 mile round trip. Add in the parking and one ULEZ fee and it was still more than £120 cheaper.

Britain follwed the Americans and built the modern UK for the car.

[LTNman]

I have no doubt that in-depth studies have taken place to establish what is the maximum fee that can be charged without affecting the total number of cars visiting the drop off area. Luton though is in the unfortunate position that to allow a maximum flow rate through a restricted mid term car park entrance and exit it can’t stop cars at barriers to inflict a charge.

I am sure that it is being looked at now to see if there is a way to modify the entrance and exit to increase the number of lanes so charges can be reintroduced. The old drop off area had 2 lanes in and I think 8 lanes out.

This is the temporary drop off that has been refined over the last few weeks but is still a nightmare if being picked up.
https://youtu.be/xgE7TLesH7o?si=d-W9_l9nqJObB_0d

[pabely]

Things will get worse next week with the return of schools and fully back to work.A1081 Road Closure - 8th to 16th January 2024From the 8th January until 16th January 2024 both lanes will be closed on the westbound (outbound) section of the A1081 from the roundabout at Percival Way to where it merges onto the main carriageway from Kimpton Road.

Vehicles will be diverted down Old Airport Way and then onto the main carriageway towards the M1.

There will also be one lane closed on the main carriageway to enable the works.

The lane closures will be in effect 24 hours a day while repairs are carried out.

[Spanish eyes]

The traffic into the airport was backing down to the A505 a few minutes ago. Also the M1 from the airport turn off to Milton Keynes is going to be limited to 50 mph until 2025 starting this month for crash barrier replacement.

[boeing_eng]

The traffic into the airport was backing down to the A505 a few minutes ago. Also the M1 from the airport turn off to Milton Keynes is going to be limited to 50 mph until 2025 starting this month for crash barrier replacement.

Most of the time you are lucky to get above 60 mph on that M1 stretch anyway (thanks to the over-zealous smart motorway operators!)

[pabely]

16.2m pax for full year then.
https://www.travelandtourworld.com/news/article/london-luton-airport-hits-16-2m-passengers-in-2023/

[LTNman]

16.2m pax for full year then.
https://www.travelandtourworld.com/news/article/london-luton-airport-hits-16-2m-passengers-in-2023/

This year, LLA’s continued focus on delivering brilliant passenger service.


I just love these articles that seems to have been written by LLAOL publicity department where everything is roses with nothing bad to report. It would be far better if it was balanced and while rightly celebrating achievements mentioning what has gone wrong and what they are doing about it.

Maybe it has slipped their mind that 3 months ago today a fire wrecked not only their car park with over 1400 motorists having their cars written off but also their drop off zone imploded. Now the airport has a drop off area outside the CTA with a long walk to get to and from the terminal until around the end of 2025 . No mention either about peak time queues with passengers missing their flights. I guess they just forgot to mention it.

I note that work is being carried out to the temporary entrance and exit of the remaining MSCP. I have no idea what is going on but it looks like minor adjustments to traffic flows.

We are now on day 8 of the removal of the multi-story car park with not much happening that is visible.
https://i.imgur.com/oaR5q6x.jpg

Written off cars that have been removed to a rubber lined compound, which is good to see.
https://i.imgur.com/YNDarZM.jpg

Meanwhile Easyjet has parked up many of its aircraft on the south stands.
https://i.imgur.com/rybRa82.jpg

[ClearLand08]

easyJet has a big reduction in capacity this time of year as demand drops off after New Year. Its schedule today, for example, consists of only 24 departures. That's about a third of a typical day over the summer when there are 24 easyJet departures in the first wave alone. Wizzair similarly have 52 departures today, around 45% of a typical summer day.

[crunchynutter]

easyjet, and to a lesser extent wizz and ryanair all park aircraft overnight on the south apron

[pabely]

https://www.route-one.net/news/arriva-retains-greenline-757-coach-contract-for-at-least-five-years/

OK not Amsterdam, Glasgow or Malaga but made you look!

[pabely]

Old face, new chair
https://news.railbusinessdaily.com/paul-kehoe-cbe-appointed-luton-rising-independent-chair/

[pabely]

Always a hot topic here. Short term leases of Titan aircraft to cover engine checks are good as well.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/uk-regulator-says-wizz-air-has-sufficiently-improved-refund-processes-2024-01-17/

[pabely]

It is being reported Wizzair UK to restart TLV flights from 1st March.
Only x3 week and not from LGW yet which would imply, not surprisingly, the North London market is much stronger.

[crunchynutter]

Not very obvious from the pic, the machines are very nearly in the middle of the car park.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1282/20240129_094217_db694496b03ed2b6c68a1a3a58f15d2577d21a0a.jpg

[LTNman]

Built on the cheap, turns out to have been a very expensive mistake but will they learn any lessons? I doubt it.

[crunchynutter]

I hear the new mscp is going to be bigger ( more floors ) than the old one !

[LTNman]

If so it will block the view from the tower, which is why it was as high as it was and no taller.

[crunchynutter]

Haven't been in the tower for a number of years now, last time I was up there, there were a number of blind spots around the airfield and that was before all the recent building work.

[pabely]

Isn’t LCY Tower 360 degrees blind being miles away at Swanwick?
I don't think line of sight is so important, if running with low visibility ops can the tower see much anyhow?
I thought the height of the Car Parks was was of a concern for the ILS systems?

[pabely]

Don't know if it has been noted before but Dan Air Romania increases Bacau to x4 week with the S24 season.

[terrain safe]

Pabely

LCY has 360-degree cameras so no blind spots. In low viz everything is slowed down. It's not called a visual control room for no reason. If you create a permanent blind spot, that means that you either install a camera system, which has to have a safety case as well as diverse routing and backup, or, you just have procedural control. BTW, a big car park will block the surface movement radar, so takes away that safety blanket as well.

[pabely]

As it is run by NATS I'm sure it will be fine.
Searidge Technologies have done some great solutions around the world.
I find digital overlays quite exciting highlighting stand/taxiway WIP areas and aircraft flight tags.
Technology is so good now it will be predicting optimal pushback times and forecast problems. Integrated AI is just round the corner.

[pabely]

Some interesting analysis here https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/transport/luton-airport-reveals-top-10-travel-trends-for-2024-including-swiftie-stays-and-sistermoons-4502024
I certainly know people who are quite bored with Spain or Turkey now and not afraid of checking out Egypt or a Central European country.
When will Luton hit pre Covid levels of passengers - this year?

[Falcon666]

Other half wanted a city break and chose four destinations- none available from Luton this summer.
Appears Easyjet holiday Dept are winning the route selections.
Surely this opens up options for other Airlines to pick up the slack . Wonder if the route development Department still exists in the Airport.
Cities were Rome, Madrid, Vienna and Copenhagen.
Looks like it’s LGW this year😫

[pabely]

In an ideal world I'm sure all these are again possible but with no slots available there is just more money to be made elsewhere.
Roll on T2 !

[LTNman]

Not so fast sonny. LRT are in panic mode over their DCO application and are making one error after another due to the deadline of the 8th February. 90% of all DCO’s are approved so I assumed this would go the same way but now I have real doubts as they are still bringing out documents one after another that contradict each other over fundamental points that should have been sorted out months ago. They have also admitted that their section 106 agreement won’t be agreed in time despite the examiners asking for it.

Now they are protesting loudly at potential financial penalties if they don’t follow the rules. They say they are not required. If they are not required then why protest?

The LRT DCO bill was estimated at £68m that could have been spent on eradicating people sleeping on the streets and on social services but in Luton the homeless are just an inconvenience to be ignored. Meanwhile the £68m bill is going up daily while the LRT propaganda machine goes into overdrive telling the people of Luton half truths while holding back on the real story of incompetence and blunders.

[LTNman]

Proposed sanctions are getting LRT hot under the collar. I say bring it on after the airport got caught out breaking noise limits for 3 consecutive years with no penalties. Neither LRT or LLAOL can be trusted regarding any promises or requirements.

https://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/TR020001/TR020001-003046-8.187%20Applicant's%20Position%20Paper%20on%20Financial%20Pe nalties.pdf

[pabely]

Being reported RYR will be back on TLV route before W9, restarting on 1st March.

[ericlday]

Being reported RYR will be back on TLV route before W9, restarting on 1st March.
Have Ryanair flown LTN - TLV ?

[compton3bravo]

Wizz are to operate three special flights for England supporters to Dortmund, Frankfurt and Cologne for the Euros in June. Ryanair do not fly Luton- Tel Aviv.
There is also the Champions League final at Wembley this year extra flights depend of course that the two English teams do not make it to the final.

[pabely]

Have Ryanair flown LTN - TLV ?
Sloppy reporting or someone jumped the gun on an announcement? Would have thought they would have tried STN first?
Ryanair returns to Tel Aviv after cancelling 950 flights in January | Travel Weekly (http://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/ryanair-returns-to-tel-aviv-after-cancelling-950-flights-in-january)

[davidjohnson6]

Reading the Travel Weekly article, it seems to say Wizzair will fly Luton - Tel Aviv from 1 March, while Ryanair will fly to Tel Aviv from other cities, eg Marseille. I do not see any mention of Ryanair flying Tel Aviv to either Luton or Stansted

[pabely]

Reading the Travel Weekly article, it seems to say Wizzair will fly Luton - Tel Aviv from 1 March, while Ryanair will fly to Tel Aviv from other cities, eg Marseille. I do not see any mention of Ryanair flying Tel Aviv to either Luton or Stansted
Good point, it was the way it was written. No overlap of routes serving a different set of distinctions.
Pretty useless comparison.

[davidjohnson6]

Wizzair to drop Ljubljana - not just a 2 month winter suspension
https://www.exyuaviation.com/2024/02/wizz-air-to-discontinue-luton-ljubljana.html

[pabely]

Good to see Luton will be ready for June and use of the new 3D scanners.
https://simpleflying.com/uk-plan-scrap-100-ml-liquid-rule/
Reduced queue times and and with greater throughput can only enhance the passenger experience.
Some questioned here the reduction in security lanes but from LCY experience, it looks good news for the punter.

[Spanish eyes]

And bad new for the staff with less required.

[pabely]

And bad new for the staff with less required.
You could say the same of any Industry. I'm sure the Union Leaders of Vauxhalls in the 70s would be very unhappy at what that has become being too labour intensive and uncompetitive.

[Spanish eyes]

So pabely agrees then that all the noise coming out of Luton Rising regarding 1000’s of new jobs is all BS.

[pabely]

This is nothing to do with that, airports all round the world are rolling out this Technology.
One of the biggest pinch points in security is the passenger forgetting the 100ml rule.
This helps to remove that from the equation.
I suppose it is Luton Risings fault that Self Chekin came about, baggage being sorted by bar code and a flight engineer no longer being needed in the cockpit!

[davidjohnson6]

40 years ago, supermarkets employed huge numbers of people to put price stickers on items on the shelves, and then even more people to sit by a conveyor belt and read the price on those stickers. The cost of employing these people was factored into the price that supermarkets charged - i.e. ultimately the shopper paid for them. The jobs were poorly paid. Then people decided it would be so much cheaper, faster and more reliable if barcodes were used instead.
I don't think many people have a great desire for supermarkets to pay human beings to do those (mind-numbingly-dull) jobs again.

[Spanish eyes]

Yes I get all that but the point is that Luton Rising is pretending that a huge amount of jobs are going to be provided when in fact that won’t be the case.

[pabely]

MAG must be lying as well then with their extra 5000 jobs for their current expansions phase.

[davidjohnson6]

Are we talking about jobs on-site at the airport or are we talking about jobs in the area because of good transport links to other cities and countries ?

Yes, having a busy international airport really does boost non-aviation-related economic activity - just see what bad roads and no rail or coach station does for a town's future

[LTNman]

Are we talking about jobs on-site at the airport or are we talking about jobs in the area because of good transport links to other cities and countries ?



I have two points to make:

Luton is not a strategic airport. Its prime function is as a holiday airport offering cheap holidays. This is reflected in the types of airlines that operate services into it being low cost airlines offering no onward connections. If Luton is allowed to expand do people here think for one minute that Heathrow airlines will be queuing up to offer overflow services from Luton?

MAG must be lying as well then with their extra 5000 jobs for their current expansions phase.


They all lie and are very selective with the truth by bringing out job surveys that they have often paid for.

This reminds me of Tesco. Everyday we see adverts or press releases about the latest price drops or price cuts. We never hear them shouting about the thousand of price rises.

No mention that the airport and its partners actually want to cut as many jobs as possible and an expanded airport will increase in-work poverty

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/tesco-makes-price-cut-announcement-28427447.

[davidjohnson6]

Wizzair dropping Olzstyn in NE Poland from their network (to both Luton and Dortmund) from the end of March 2024. As with Lodz, Ryanair to STN will remain the sole link to London
https://www.pasazer.com/news/464798/wizz,air,zawiesza,wszystkie,trasy,z,olsztyna.html

[pabely]

Wizzair dropping Olzstyn in NE Poland from their network (to both Luton and Dortmund) from the end of March 2024. As with Lodz, Ryanair to STN will remain the sole link to London
https://www.pasazer.com/news/464798/wizz,air,zawiesza,wszystkie,trasy,z,olsztyna.html
Perhaps some incentive expired.
Ryanair do it enough.
Talking about Ryanair, they are finding Dublin tough going, firstly due to increasing charges by the airport and the cost of living around Dublin hitting recruitment targets.

[pabely]

For Football fans, Wizzair UK are running some charters for the first 3 England matches in Germany.
London Luton – Dortmund Airport

16th June 2024, 11:25

Dortmund Airport – London Luton

17th June 2024, 08:55

London Luton – Frankfurt

20th June 2024, 06:00

Frankfurt – London Luton

21st June 2024, 08:20

London Luton – Cologne

25th June 2024, 11:25

Cologne – London Luton

26th June 2024, 08:55

As two of the games are against East European teams, I suspect not all on board will be supporters of England!

[davidjohnson6]

Did Wizzair fly Luton - Hurghada during summer 2023 ? It looks like they won't in summer 2024, but I'm not sure if it's a winter-only or year-round route
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240207-w6w4ns24cxld

[pabely]

Can't remember but Egypt is very hot in Summer, wouldn't consider it a destination between end of April & August.

[davidjohnson6]

Easyjet will sell you a ticket from Luton to Hurghada in on 28 July 2024 for £403 one way, when it typically gets to over 37 °C each day. Some people in the UK really do like it hot. Were Wizzair flying Luton - Hurghada in summer 2023 as well ?

[pabely]

The S22 ACL Report doesn't show it as a new route vs S21, I think it started W21 so that would imply a Winter only route.
I have done Sharm many times in Winter and the pool guys always said you English are mad to come here in July or August when it is too hot for the locals. You sunbathe from 7am until 10am, go back to air-con rooms and not seen again until 3pm.

[LTNman]

The DCO closes today with a new batch of documents submitted to the examining authority including the financial accounts for the year ending March 31st 2023. This had to be asked for as LRT wanted to keep them away from the inspectorates eyes.

So the headline figure for 2022/23 is a loss of £207.8m compared with a loss of £232.8m for the previous year. Oh it gets better regarding the Dart with a further impairment of £75.6m on top of the 2020/21 impairment of £184.7m giving an unrecoverable debt of £260m. Not bad for a project that was meant to have cost £225m but ended up at £313m. This means that almost the entire cost of building the Dart is unrecoverable when allowing for projected future income. When previously asked to produce the business case for this financial disaster LRT refused. Not to worry, the Town Hall has deep pockets even though the residents don’t.

[pabely]

https://www.travelandtourworld.com/news/article/wizz-air-celebrates-70-million-passengers-at-luton/

I wonder how many pax Easyjet have had over the years?

[LTNman]

environmentally conscious airline on a global scale

What a load of BS written for all the suckers out there who will believe anything.

[LGS6753]

https://www.travelandtourworld.com/news/article/wizz-air-celebrates-70-million-passengers-at-luton/

I wonder how many pax Easyjet have had over the years?
Wizz Air started at Luton in May 2004 with a flight from Katowice. Luton is, I think, their largest destination/base.
Easy Jet started in 1995, and have a fleet of around 25 based at Luton. so I wouldn't be surprised of they've carried 100 million or more.

[LTNman]

Not bad for a project that was meant to have cost £225m but ended up at £313m.


The latest accounts from LRT states that to March 2023 the DART construction cost is a whopping £360m with only £100m recoverable over 40 years. This is something the LRT will want to keep quiet while crowing about its 2 millionth passenger.

[pabely]

Have you got comparative costs of how much the old busses cost? Then utilisation pax per day?
Finally the customer experience on making Luton a more desirable airport and spending at the airport because you don't have to queue in the rain for a horrible journey to the airport and say never again?
It was well documented that TUI lost interest in Luton because of negative feedback outside their control.
Putting the Car Park fire aside, the whole Airport experience was shaping up well.

[davidjohnson6]

Why does LTN need to worry so much about TUI leaving ? It's not as if LTN has large amounts of unused capacity and is running at far below its authorised number of passengers per year.

Yes, there was a need for something better than queueing up for the bus at 11 pm in the rain... but a bus service that was
a) more frequent
b) more reliable
c) easier automated verification that pax had paid the bus farer
d) faster bus boarding and de-boarding process
e) plenty of good luggage space on the bus
could have solved this problem at a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the risk.

Transport between Parkway and the terminal went from an awful service to being gold-plated - something in between would have sufficed.

[pabely]

Why does LTN need to worry so much about TUI leaving ? It's not as if LTN has large amounts of unused capacity and is running at far below its authorised number of passengers per year.
It did at the time when the decision to build the DART was made. Ideas date back as far as 2007 before approval in 2016.
Wizzair UK was only launched in 2017 and around that time only 2 Wizzair Europe would overnight.
Fast forward today I think TUI would want to base more at Luton but they have lost/sold the slots.
An opportunity arose in 2017 to grab Monarch slots but usual German way, they lost out being reactive.

[LTNman]

Have you got comparative costs of how much the old busses cost? Then utilisation pax per day?
Finally the customer experience on making Luton a more desirable airport and spending at the airport because you don't have to queue in the rain for a horrible journey to the airport and say never again?
It was well documented that TUI lost interest in Luton because of negative feedback outside their control.
Putting the Car Park fire aside, the whole Airport experience was shaping up well.

Focusing on the cost to LRT and the Council, the shuttle buses had a cost of £0, as it was funded by Thameslink. By comparison the Dart has a cost of £360m.

The Dart is far more desirable but has failed to add a single passenger as shuttle buses coped in 2019 when the airport operated at 18m passengers that year. In 2023 the airport handled 16.5m passengers despite the Dart.

Talking of queuing, it was taking close to an hour to get from the pick up zone to the A505 due to the continuing closure of New Airport Way in the direction of the M1. Just getting out of the car park was taking around 40 minutes, as cars had to keep merging into a single exit lane within the car park, which then took them around the car park boundary before a very slow drive down Old Airport Way. I did take some photos but the hosting company I use for publishing no longer seems to support forums.

[LTNman]

Passengers have been suffering not only arriving at the airport but also leaving it. This is the exit route from the Mid Term Car Park. Note the closed off section in the Mid Term. A potential new pick up area can be seen inside a new compound but it was also noted that an area inside the CTA by the taxi rank is having all its kerbstones removed including the entry and exit route to the bus station. Maybe that will be the location of a drop off area for the next 18 months?
https://i.postimg.cc/286Q8ZJv/car-park-2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

This is one of several lanes of the pick up zone. Each lane had its own queue that merges into a single lane.
https://i.postimg.cc/FzP0Vrf7/car-park-3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The Central Terminal Area that has limited access for pre-booked cars coming from MSCP1 plus buses and taxi's was no better with the queue stretching down to the A505 thanks to half term.
https://i.postimg.cc/tRvWsgFx/P1080723.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Meanwhile back at the burnt out car park work is progressing.
https://i.postimg.cc/D00GCV30/P1080727.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Some areas have had the central section removed.
https://i.postimg.cc/tgzVpRX7/P1080725.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

While other sections just have the railings removed.
https://i.postimg.cc/vZfV2Lkr/P1080724.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[LTNman]

I see easyjet have short changed nearly 5500 employees by paying them below the national minimum wage. I bet LRT will want to keep that quiet.

[pabely]

I see easyjet have short changed nearly 5500 employees by paying them below the national minimum wage. I bet LRT will want to keep that quiet.
Why, one of 524 companies identified by HMRC. Are LRT liable for Radisson Hotel Manchester & Center Parks as well?
The article shows all money owed has been paid back.
Does new entrants cabin crew training still occur at Airport site?
If anything this highlights the hospitality sector.

[LTNman]

Statement from LRT
help us build a town where no-one lives in poverty

Money was only paid back as Easyjet got rumbled.

[pabely]

Statement from LRT


Money was only paid back as Easyjet got rumbled.
We are talking about first 3 weeks of employment, not some long term contract and HMRC have accepted it was a mistake and not by design.
As majority numbers who make it through the Academy are never based at Luton, hardly anything to do with LRT.
Isn't the Academy based at Gatwick now anyhow?
Perhaps poor wages at Wetherspoons Pub at Luton Airport you could blame LRT as well.
ALL airports pay similar wages, if it ain't Luton it will be somewhere else.

[LTNman]

I don’t blame LRT for anything, just their fake messaging about wanting to end poverty, as the sad truth is that the airport needs impoverished people to work at the airport for low pay to remain competitive. Oh and the airport hasn’t got a Wetherspoons pub.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

LTNman
When are you going to correct your post on the number of people Easyjet short changed as you put it, 3898 is the total number, which is no where the 5500 you have incorrectly stated.

[LTNman]

Happy to be corrected.

[gdiddy]

Just looking on Twitter and appears SunExpress are making a welcomed come back this summer, after many thought they'd left the airport for Stansted or Gatwick.

4x Weekly to Antalya and Weekly to Izmir.

Source:
SeanM1997

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1220/screenshot_2024_02_23_12_42_06_559_com_twitter_android_edit_ 84998e4d0ae9f22c828271791abaefb5196b93b6.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1665/screenshot_2024_02_23_12_42_32_018_com_twitter_android_edit_ 673079ad07967bc55c4fc4d4bee725750e15fcdf.jpg

​​​​

[pabely]

Very welcome to see Sun Express back. I did note their slots hadn't been traded away - will be valuable assets to keep hold of.

[pabely]

No matter what you think about some low paid jobs in the industry you can always appreciate spend towards local pockets.
https://www.internationalairportreview.com/news/214352/london-luton-airport-invests-70-million-in-local-economy/

[boeing_eng]

I think a fair chunk of that went to Ryebridge! :}

[pabely]

A little more detail to what has already been shown within these threads Accounts reveal £550m impact of pandemic on Luton council's airport company (https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/politics/council/accounts-reveal-ps550m-impact-of-pandemic-on-luton-councils-airport-company-4534649)

Note: “We expect to secure a revised concessionaire agreement or alternative value added financial arrangement by 2032/33 to extend the resilience and expertise developed during the current concession tenure,” explained the report by Mark Turner, the company secretary and director, and LBC monitoring officer.

[LTNman]

Accounts reveal £550m impact of pandemic on Luton council's airport company

Most of that debt has very little to do with Covid, as LRT stopped paying a dividend to the council and still doesn’t, and has everything to do with its £360m out of control loans to build the Dart and the £261m write off of unrecoverable Dart debts and a further £71m loan to fund the DCO.

Regarding the DCO, despite spending £71m, LRT has very little faith in its own application, so is not convinced by its own arguments, and has now resorted to a petition as a sign of desperation.


We expect to secure a revised concessionaire agreement or alternative value added financial arrangement by 2032/33 to extend the resilience and expertise developed during the current concession tenure,” explained the report by Mark Turner, the company secretary and director, and LBC monitoring officer.


This is just double talk to mean there will be no competitive tendering process and that LRT will be taken to the cleaners with a lower concession fee per passenger than now, as the operator has them over a barrel. This is an indication of historic weak and feeble management and a board of directors made up of housewives and shopkeepers who know little about nothing when it comes to airports.

I note that one of the councillor “housewives” has now been replaced as the Chair of LRT with someone brought in who should know what he is doing but is it too little too late?

A qualified auditor’s opinion was issued for a third successive year around the £1.16bn airport valuation, despite this being £320m lower than a £1.5bn valuation in March 2021. Auditor Azets Audit Services would support a further write down of £150m reducing this to about £1bn.


This is a big deal. Companies don’t like qualified accounts, as it looks bad and this is another one under new auditors. It shows that LRT has put a fake value on its own airport to reduce the debt to value ratio. In other words the auditor has expressed reservations about whether they represent a true and fair view of the company’s financial condition.

[Spanish eyes]

If there was money to be made the airport operator would have built the DART. The fact that they did not speaks volumes. While Luton Rising is haemorrhaging money the airport operator is making a killing by providing the staff for the DART. The word mugs comes to mind together with Labour Party incompetence as while the locals will be paying for the DART for decades to come they get no benefit from it.

[pabely]

Most of that debt has very little to do with Covid, as LRT stopped paying a dividend to the council and still doesn’t, ...............

According to AENA Accounts that is not so.
"To offset the loss of activity as a result of the pandemic, the sustainable recovery agreement was formalised on 17 November 2021 between London Luton Airport and Luton Borough Council, based on the Special Force Majeure (SFM) mechanism included in the concession contract, and whose final agreement foresaw a reduction of the total concession fee
of £45 million (until 2023), a concession extension of 16.5 months (from 31 March 2031 to 15 August 2032), as well as an agreement on other environmental and economic-social matters valued by both parties. A compensation mechanism for the fee provided for in the SFM was also established, although it has not had effect in 2023 or 2022, since the passenger volume for both years has exceeded those projected in the agreement forecast."

So are AENA paying the concession fees again from this year?

[LTNman]

LRT no longer pays a dividend to the council due to the interest payments on its debts despite LLAOL paying them a concession fee again. . Instead the council has to rely on the difference between what it borrowed the money at and what it lent the money at. The result is that the council cries poverty as income from the airport is lower than it was 10 years ago despite higher passenger numbers.

Let’s not forget the LRT losses for the last 3 years now come to £550m. Most of that is due to the cost of the DCO and Dart while LLAOL is on to a nice little earner even being paid by the council during the pandemic.

[pabely]

Unfortunately full article behind a wall but office space take up going well which must generate more local jobs.
https://www.costar.com/article/536822146/luton-office-market-takes-flight-as-airport-eyes-growth

[LTNman]

Plenty of office space remains actually at the airport that has remained empty for years and has been impossible to let.

The Airport police have been converting a small warehouse (building 90). Think this was previously rented by Gulfstream.

[pabely]

https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/easyjet-runs-luton-flights-for-tt/

[pabely]

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/first-landmark-announced-for-lutons-monopoly-board-which-will-go-on-sale-next-month-4538862
I wonder if the Airport is Old Kent Road
or Mayfair?

[DC3 Dave]

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/first-landmark-announced-for-lutons-monopoly-board-which-will-go-on-sale-next-month-4538862
I wonder if the Airport is Old Kent Road
or Mayfair?

Not sure, but I believe LTNman features on the go to jail cards….

[crunchynutter]

There has been little or no work on the MSCP this week.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x2000/20240228_115922_a02fc59d33f42c80542f76dbb0199bb46f035371.jpg
Interesting, the path a fire takes. Three vehicles can be seen on the middle floor, a silver Transit (?) type van on the left, a silver Astra van in the middle, and another vehicle on the right. Both vans are un-marked, the Astra is parked bumper to bumper with the burnt out car, the Transit (?) is parked the width of a road away.

[LTNman]

This week is week 9 of up to 16 weeks the airport operator said would be needed to demolish the car park. Meanwhile work is progressing slowly on the temporary drop off area that replaces the existing temporary drop off area. This one is just outside the bus station and looks small due to a lack of space. Gridlock for the summer? Guaranteed.

[SWBKCB]

This one is just outside the bus station and looks small due to a lack of space.

Maybe that will be the premium drop off area?! :ok:

[pabely]

Of note this weekend was Wizzair UK restarting TLV flights again, Easyjet won't restart until end of month but looking at flight prices have good bookings for Easter.
EDIT: Although today's flight had to divert to Beirut.

[LTNman]

Slow progress throughout the airport. Photos taken Monday.
https://i.postimg.cc/5NhPWwd5/P1080729.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/GprqHdpH/P1080732.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Latest temporary drop off area under construction?
https://i.postimg.cc/76Z9n904/P1080735.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Work about to start on a temporary pick up area that is still the wrong side of the tunnel or is something else going on?
https://i.postimg.cc/ZKdcHCBW/P1080750.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Walking route to terminal
https://i.postimg.cc/L5qVrsx0/P1080737.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Not much action apart from the digger in the background.
https://i.postimg.cc/0y1CBPDc/P1080743.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[pabely]

Thanks for the update LTNman . Reminds me to wondering, in the first pichure what all that displaced earth is for beyond Taxiway Foxtrot.....Alpha extension?

[LTNman]

They have been collection soil there for years now. As they have a mass soil shortage under expansion plans I have no idea where it will finally go.

[LTNman]

Maybe that will be the premium drop off area?! :ok:

Actually you might be right. Two tier drop off and pick up charges, one premium by the terminal with an eye watering charge and one in the mid term at a reduced rate?

[Buster the Bear]

Gourmet dining comes to Luton airport! Only the best for Luton passengers! https://www.passengerterminaltoday.com/news/food-beverage/london-luton-airport-launches-an-automatic-hot-food-dispenser.html

[ExpectmorePayless]

Of note this weekend was Wizzair UK restarting TLV flights again, Easyjet won't restart until end of month but looking at flight prices have good bookings for Easter.
EDIT: Although today's flight had to divert to Beirut.
Beirut 😬 did they really think having Beirut as an alternate for a Tel Aviv flight was a sensible idea?
Particularly when a proportion of customers would be Israeli passport holders?
There are safer alternatives such as Eilat, Paphos and Larnaca.

[pabely]

Beirut 😬 did they really think having Beirut as an alternate for a Tel Aviv flight was a sensible idea?
Particularly when a proportion of customers would be Israeli passport holders?
There are safer alternatives such as Eilat, Paphos and Larnaca.
I don't think you are very up to date with current situation in Lebanon. Tonight half the El Al fleet diverted to Beruit along with Arkia plus a few other airlines.

[planedrive]

I don't think you are very up to date with current situation in Lebanon. Tonight half the El Al fleet diverted to Beruit along with Arkia plus a few other airlines.

Not sure that's true. For the last few days flights have been showing as 'diverted to BEY' on Flightradar24 when they've actually landed in TLV. The ads-b reporting discontinues as the aircraft approach the TLV area and flight radar just makes a guess based on the last position. See UAL84/85 on the 7/8 March - shows diverted to BEY on arrival and then yet the return flight leaves TLV on time.

[mavml]

Wondering if anyone has any suggestions re drop off. We have to drop our kids off for a school trip at 4am on a Sunday in a couple of weeks time. School have asked that we take them to the terminal building. Given the lack of any short term parking, the only options I can think of are:

- pre book a day in the short or mid stay car parks (both around £40)
- use long stay, free or £7 depending on how long it takes me to do the return shuttle bus journey. Don’t think I need to pre book this.
- have another person in the car who can hang around nearby while I take them to the terminal, unfortunately I don’t think this is practically an option for us.

My initial idea was to park at parkway and use the dart, but there don’t seem to be any trains at that time (replacement buses) and I’m concerned there won’t be access through the station from the car park.

Any other suggestions? I have to do the same on the return but that is around midday and the long term car park option feels a bit more bearable then.

[LTNman]

The barriers are permanently in the up position at the entrance and exit to the mid term to aid traffic flow to the drop of so you can’t collect or pay for a ticket. I would be inclined to just park up in a mid term bay and book nothing.

[mavml]

The barriers are permanently in the up position at the entrance and exit to the mid term to aid traffic flow to the drop of so you can’t collect or pay for a ticket. I would be inclined to just park up in a mid term bay and book nothing.

Thanks - definitely an option.

[pabely]

2020 - 2024 -1,135,800 1,125,737

How long before we are at pre-covid rolling 18m again?

[pabely]

A quick visit today to collect some friends - could Signature fit any more planes in their FBO area?
Harrods in the distance similar.
I have said it before, time for more concrete irrespective of pax cap!
Everyone seems to fly a Global or Gulfstream now and Luton seems to be the place to come North of the river!

[pabely]

So the Airport Operator now owns the ex Monarch Engineering facilities.

https://www.airportsinternational.com/article/watling-sells-luton-airport-hangars
Don't Netjets currently lease one and Wizzair UK another?
New Tenants lined up for the bigger 767 capable one?

[LTNman]

The Monarch hangars that were up for sale were hangar 9, 60 and 127. Netjet are in hangars 7 and 8. I think those hangars are owned by Luton Rising aka Luton Council.

[LTNman]

Another point worth mentioning is that the LLAOL franchise ends in I think 2033. This is just another sign that there will be no tendering process, which will act against the public interest for council taxpayers.

While LLAOL are buying hangars LRT are spending millions building a mezzanine floor in the departure lounge. Now I always thought it was the operator that was meant to spent money on the terminal?

[pabely]

Another point worth mentioning is that the LLAOL franchise ends in I think 2033. This is just another sign that there will be no tendering process, which will act against the public interest for council taxpayers.

While LLAOL are buying hangars LRT are spending millions building a mezzanine floor in the departure lounge. Now I always thought it was the operator that was meant to spent money on the terminal?
Not sure if that is correct. If the hangars were sold by the executors of MAEL to get the best return, what right does LRT have on those other than Greater money to pay outstanding creditors which I'm sure LRT will be.

As for the new mezzanine floor, the rent gets paid to whom? I suspect LRT, not LLAOL.

[LTNman]

The point I was making is why would LLAOL buy 3 hangars at an airport that they might be kicked out of if the franchise went to tender, and not the fact that almost bankrupt LRT didn’t buy them, as I wouldn’t have expected them to.

So why did LLAOL pay for the shops and food outlets to be built in the terminal extension but LRT is paying for the mezzanine floor extension that will allow for a larger food outlet? Why did LLAOL fund the building of the multistory car parks but LRT fund the Dart? Who paid for the latest apron? It is impossible to separate the companies now regarding who pays for what.

[Falcon666]

https://moodiedavittreport.com/interview-london-luton-airport-forges-a-flowering-reputation/

Found this, might be of interest to a few on the thread.
£8M for the new Sanford Bar and Restaurant paid by you know who.

[LTNman]

It’s only a matter of time before the Council and LRT both go bankrupt with the council borrowing an additional £116.8m for allegedly non airport projects. Meanwhile LLAOL are waiting to pounce, as they are the only ones doing well from the airport as they milk the loss making LRT.

[Buster the Bear]

Are they demolishing 3x ex Monarch hangars and building a new Tinminal?

[LTNman]

Only 2 of the hangars were suitable for aircraft but they both suffered from blocked airside access. Who knows what the big plan is but demolition can’t be ruled out as many Luton hangars have suffered that fate over the years.

http://bulkloader.prd.pl.artirix.com.s3.amazonaws.com/df16e2be-0e85-48e2-b8c1-f594a9258b28_LutonAirportBrochureFINAL54052.pdf

[pabely]

Who always overnight parks on Stand 12 might give you a clue of new Tenants....?

[LTNman]

Nothing of interest then.

[boeing_eng]

Only 2 of the hangars were suitable for aircraft but they both suffered from blocked airside access. Who knows what the big plan is but demolition can’t be ruled out as many Luton hangars have suffered that fate over the years.

Interesting to see the previous lease rates!.........Given the new owners, I'm sure some discounted deals may now be offered!

[pabely]

Nothing of interest then.
I heard joint venture with Technik, save sending planes to Diamond Hangar st STN.
Thinking back, of the two aircraft capable hangers could the smaller take a 757? With a curtain airline being 321 only now it actually might make sense to drop the lot and start again using full footprint. But then again why didn't MAEL do that rather than build a fresh facility at BHX?

[LTNman]

I think an issue was the airports extortionate charges for apron parking after 2 hours, as Luton didn’t like stands occupied by aircraft in for maintenance and again blocked access to the hangars.

[LTNman]

Luton Airport: Man arrested over car park fire faces no action https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-68614992

[cavokblues]

Heard some adverts for Luton Rising in between podcasts today - advertised as Luton Rising - the socially ethnical airport (or something similar).

It got me thinking, what's the point of those adverts? I doubt it makes people think 'I'll fly from Luton.' Is it just to help their DCO application?

[pabely]

Heard some adverts for Luton Rising in between podcasts today - advertised as Luton Rising - the socially ethnical airport (or something similar).

It got me thinking, what's the point of those adverts? I doubt it makes people think 'I'll fly from Luton.' Is it just to help their DCO application?
As the examination process closed on 10th February it's a little late for that.
I would say more directed at the pax who has a choice of which airport to use for their travel needs.

[cavokblues]

Feels an odd advert.

'I'll fly Wizz because I'm concious of my socially ethical footprint.'

[LTNman]

LRT and the Council are in total panic. Having spent £71m on its application to government they are not even convinced by the merits of their own application. We now have the ludicrous situation where the council is pleading poverty while LRT has a bottomless pit of money to spend on self promotion and misinformation and are now even running a petition to expand the airport on the assumption that their application will fail.

The advertised claims include setting legal limits on pollution and environmental standards but failing to mention that this will not apply to aircraft movements.

That the near doubling of aircraft movements will be good for the environment and should be classed as green growth.

That they will create 11,000 jobs despite being unable to fill existing vacancies.

Charitable donations will rise.

What they don’t mention with their self promotion is that:

LRT had to be rescued with taxpayers money from going bankrupt.

LRT has lost £550m over the last 3 years while the airport operator makes large profits.

LRT no longer pays the council and only shareholder a dividend and has no plans to.

LRT’s spend on the Dart was 60% over budget.

LRT own auditors have stated that £260m of the £360m spent on the Dart is unrecoverable so is lost and will have to be paid back by LRT. This is more than the original planned cost.

LRT also fail to mention that LRT charitable donations has been reducing every year and are only half of what it was due to its interest payments on ever increasing debts.

LRT plan to destroy the majority of a major Luton public park and all of its officially recognised large County Wildlife Site including the cutting down of hundreds of trees so not so green.

That the Council’s own auditors are still refusing to sign off the Council’s audit from I think 2018 due to what they consider to be a fake airport valuation by LRT.

[pabely]

Feels an odd advert.

'I'll fly Wizz because I'm concious of my socially ethical footprint.'
Look at all the on-line booking engines, they state environmental credentials so it is a factor worth promoting.

[LTNman]

It’s called greenwash. Yes, they can fly aircraft that are more fuel efficient but when they intend to increase their fleet in huge numbers up goes the total emissions. It all comes down to whether the great traveling public are really interested but the lure of a cheap holiday is compelling.

[pabely]

But given the choice where an airport is convenient and price is similar, more likely will go with the greener option.
Let's face it the whole green agenda is stalling now, no-one wants wind farms near them or Solar Panels as far as the eye can see.
Who would buy a second hand electric car now now real costs have come to light.
Let's face it aviation travel is back on a big upwards trend again, might as well do it in the best way as it isn't going to stop.

[LTNman]

Many people are uneducated. A big supporter of airport expansion in Luton is the town’s large Bangladeshi population who believe what their imams tell them and who in turn get their information from the town’s Muslim councillors, who are equally uneducated. I guess the ones that are educated think their relatives will be allowed to settle in the U.K. for humanitarian reasons.

https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/how-climate-crisis-impacting-bangladesh

Despite producing only 0.56% of the global emissions (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211467X20301188) changing our climate, Bangladesh ranks seventh on the list of countries most vulnerable to climate devastation


The data shows that from 2000 to 2019, Bangladesh suffered economic losses worth $3.72 billion and witnessed 185 extreme weather events due to climate change.


It has been estimated that by 2050, one in every seven people (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405844020318612) in Bangladesh will be displaced by climate change. Specifically, with a projected 19.6 inch (50 cm) rise in sea level, Bangladesh may lose approximately 11% of its land by then (https://ejfoundation.org/reports/climate-displacement-in-bangladesh#:~:text=Two%2Dthirds%20of%20Bangladesh%20is,five% 20metres%20above%20sea%20level.&text=By%202050%2C%20with%20a%20projected,exacerbated%20by%20 rising%20sea%20levels.), and up to 18 million people may have to migrate because of sea-level rise alone.

[Spanish eyes]

There has been little or no work on the MSCP this week.



I am surprised that no one has commented on this post from a few weeks ago. I have heard that the contractor was kicked off site as its employees routinely used company machinery to break into the recovered cars and vans and were spotted loading up their loot into other vehicles. Seems it was seen as a perk of the job.

[ATNotts]

But given the choice where an airport is convenient and price is similar, more likely will go with the greener option.
Let's face it the whole green agenda is stalling now, no-one wants wind farms near them or Solar Panels as far as the eye can see.
Who would buy a second hand electric car now now real costs have come to light.
Let's face it aviation travel is back on a big upwards trend again, might as well do it in the best way as it isn't going to stop.
If what you say is true then our children and grand children face a challenging future.

I hope for their sakes you are wrong.

[LTNman]

So a carbon copy of the burnt out MSCP 2 is to be built but with sprinklers. The existing car park demolition is running late and is now expected to be completed in May. Seems the insurance company had the last word, as the replacement would have been uninsurable but what about MSCP 1?


https://planning.luton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=SAK8B7KG05100

[pabely]

If what you say is true then our children and grand children face a challenging future.

I hope for their sakes you are wrong.
The UK is an insignificant polluter in the big scheme of things, look at what is planned out East.
AI will be a bigger worry for our kids and theirs in getting jobs which we do now.

[pabely]

So a carbon copy of the burnt out MSCP 2 is to be built but with sprinklers. The existing car park demolition is running late and is now expected to be completed in May. Seems the insurance company had the last word, as the replacement would have been uninsurable but what about MSCP 1?

Worth noting that just like the last one, the car park is a permitted development.

https://planning.luton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=SAK8B7KG05100
As per Fire Officer report.I strongly recommend that an appropriate AFSS be included in the design of any new or replacement MSCP and that you give serious consideration to retrofitting AFSS in your other existing MSCPs.
Time will tell whether CP1 gets same treatment, and who pays for that?

[LTNman]

AI will be a bigger worry for our kids and theirs in getting jobs which we do now

​​​​​​​They can all work at the airport on zero hour contracts, with no pension contributions for little financial reward, as part of the LRT master plan for terminal, car park and apron job creation.

[LTNman]

As per Fire Officer report.I strongly recommend that an appropriate AFSS be included in the design of any new or replacement MSCP and that you give serious consideration to retrofitting AFSS in your other existing MSCPs.
Time will tell whether CP1 gets same treatment, and who pays for that?

I am sure ultimately it will somehow end up in my council tax bill, which now stands at over £2700 before optional extras.

[pabely]

I am sure ultimately it will somehow end up in my council tax bill, which now stands at over £2700 before optional extras.
Still cheaper than Hitchin then, can't say North Herts pays for any Airport costs........

[LTNman]

Fortunately for them that they didn’t have to bail out a council owned company to the tune of £199m or fund a Council transport link for £360m with borrowed money that most of the town’s population will never use. Only that has happened in Luton.

[LTNman]

East Midland Railways has announced the upgrade of the Luton Airport Express fleet. The rail operator says the trains will be upgraded to provide better facilities for commuter, leisure and airport passengers including new 2+2 seating throughout the trains in a mixture of airline style and bay seats, luggage racks, charging points and new passenger information systems.

This is the same announcement that was made in 2019 when they won the franchise but was never implemented. The trains will still suffer from no carriage walk through, as individual trains will still be attached to each other to form 8 carriage units.

At the moment Luton is in the unique position where the trains on the express service are inferior to the standard commuter service that uses 2+2 seating and has full 12 carriage access to all passengers.

There has been no announcement regarding how many years this upgrade will take to complete but using the first announcement made in 2019 we are already at year 5 with not one train yet completed.

[Cazza_fly]

East Midland Railways has announced the upgrade of the Luton Airport Express fleet. The rail operator says the trains will be upgraded to provide better facilities for commuter, leisure and airport passengers including new 2+2 seating throughout the trains in a mixture of airline style and bay seats, luggage racks, charging points and new passenger information systems.

This is the same announcement that was made in 2019 when they won the franchise but was never implemented. The trains will still suffer from no carriage walk through, as individual trains will still be attached to each other to form 8 carriage units.

At the moment Luton is in the unique position where the trains on the express service are inferior to the standard commuter service that uses 2+2 seating and has full 12 carriage access to all passengers.

There has been no announcement regarding how many years this upgrade will take to complete but using the first announcement made in 2019 we are already at year 5 with not one train yet completed.

On another thread, this will still not commence until the end of next year at the earliest. This is whilst they work through other "refurbishment" projects on other units in their fleet.

Realistically these units were not the best fit for this part of their network. However, at the time of securing them, they were probably the best available to tick boxes, get into service quickly and come under the best leasing costs.

Althought not the worst operator on the network, it has taken EMR far longer than it should have to improve the customer experience, inparticularly its interiors across the tired fleet which it had as part of its franchise commitment. Such a shame really, as this is always an instant win and dumbs down many other issues that arise operationally or otherwise.

[inOban]

Don't blame EMR. AIUI all the operating companies have to get permission from the Treasury via the DfT before they can buy a box of paperclips.

[LTNman]

Ryebridge, who are always given the contracts at the airport for any groundwork, are laying concrete in the mid term car park by the entrance. Ryebridge seem to be using just one man and his dog so progress is at a crawl.
https://i.postimg.cc/g25mgwWs/P1080755.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Meanwhile, work has started again on dismantling MSCP 2. I would estimate that around 60% of the car park has had its framework and floors removed after just over 11 weeks.
https://i.postimg.cc/P5MGp2XB/P1080756.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Nothing further has happened to a second temporary drop off area inside the CTA since my last report.

[pabely]

Meanwhile, work has started again on dismantling MSCP 2. I would estimate that around 60% of the car park has had its framework and floors removed.
https://i.postimg.cc/P5MGp2XB/P1080756.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

No doubt using a different workforce.

[Alloy]

Having just used LTN for midday flights with infants in tow for a change all I can say is what a miserable experience the airport was despite arriving two hours ahead of flight. Midterm drop off by taxi as close as taxi driver could get to terminal. Walk in the rain from midterm drop off to bus stop that had no shelter to wait for overcrowded bus that initially takes you further from the terminal to turn around, Walk in the rain from bus drop off to terminal. Bag drop off counters unable to accept bags that other airports can thus requiring taking bags to excess baggage. Endless taped off chicane maze just to get to security despite being a quiet time of day. Last call boarding call made almost 40 minutes before departure. No escalator or lift, only an assault course of many flights of stairs with pushchairs to get to holding pen with no seats for allocated gate. Standing in rain to board aircraft via stairs. Made the whole LTN airport experience all very grim and unfit for purpose with young children, I’m sure the experience for any other physically challenged passengers must be similarly grim. Next flight I’m probably going to vote with my feet again and take the train to LGW despite LTN only being down the road for me.

[LTNman]

Welcome to Luton. A low cost airport with a low cost experience. It doesn’t seem to put many people off but some aspects of the airport are badly designed and grim in the extreme. Nothing will ever change as that is the business model except more people will be pushed through the front door to make the overcrowding worse at peak times.

[Local Variation]

Having just used LTN for midday flights with infants in tow for a change all I can say is what a miserable experience the airport was despite arriving two hours ahead of flight. Midterm drop off by taxi as close as taxi driver could get to terminal. Walk in the rain from midterm drop off to bus stop that had no shelter to wait for overcrowded bus that initially takes you further from the terminal to turn around, Walk in the rain from bus drop off to terminal. Bag drop off counters unable to accept bags that other airports can thus requiring taking bags to excess baggage. Endless taped off chicane maze just to get to security despite being a quiet time of day. Last call boarding call made almost 40 minutes before departure. No escalator or lift, only an assault course of many flights of stairs with pushchairs to get to holding pen with no seats for allocated gate. Standing in rain to board aircraft via stairs. Made the whole LTN airport experience all very grim and unfit for purpose with young children, I’m sure the experience for any other physically challenged passengers must be similarly grim. Next flight I’m probably going to vote with my feet again and take the train to LGW despite LTN only being down the road for me.

Yep fully concur.

Sympathy for the airport re the car park. But how is that structure still standing so long after the event with vehicles still in situ? Who is in charge, Captain Slow?

Awful customer experience getting to the ‘new’ pick up point. Walk much further and I could have raised a serious amount for charity.

Building works in the departure lounge showing little to no progress since November last year. Lack of screens dotted around to conveniently see departure status.

And for the umpteenth time, the vast majority of passport e-gates not working on Tuesday night.

[LTNman]

Nothing further has happened to a second temporary drop off area inside the CTA since my last report.


​​​​​​​Ryebridge seem to be using just one man and his dog so progress is at a crawl.


​​​​​​​Building works in the departure lounge showing little to no progress since November last year.


All very well LRT claiming that they will create 11,000 new jobs when the airport hasn’t got enough workers now. So where will these 11,000 workers come from?

[crunchynutter]

Looks like someone has been given the hurry-up, builders working Saturday morning on mscp and also a small group working on the North apron taxiway
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1780x2000/20240323_090453carpark_6345ead790b3057effe3fb776ffc1e18482a6 ca4.jpg

[LTNman]

Build cheap and pay the price. Just one car catching fire brings down an entire multi story car park, causes the total loss of a drop off area, closes the entire airport for around 18 hours, shuts the Dart down for weeks and will cause airport disruption for around 2 years including the prolonged closure of the CTA ring road until at least the end of 2025 meaning no service road access to the main terminal.

[boeing_eng]

Build cheap and pay the price. Just one car catching fire brings down an entire multi story car park, causes the total loss of a drop off area, closes the entire airport for around 18 hours, shuts the Dart down for weeks and will cause airport disruption for around 2 years including the prolonged closure of the CTA ring road until at least the end of 2025 meaning no service road access to the main terminal.

Unfortunately this outcome is a clear example of the "cram a quart into a pint pot" mentality of LBC/LRT who are only interested in extracting as much revenue from punters as possible. The income lost from this incident must be truly staggering!

[LTNman]

A part of me finds the situation the operator and LRT finds itself in strangely satisfying. They are both the victims of greed so I have zero sympathy. Ultimately it is the passengers who are the true victims. 1500 cars were written off with the operator refusing to take any responsibility for the uninsured loses. Their attitude has been the same from day one. Nothing to do with us, go to your insurance company, as we don’t want to know.

You can be sure the premium drop off area will come at a premium price of around £10. No barriers to enter or exit, just a camera and a £100 fine if payment isn’t made within 24 hours. Two nice little earners for the operator to claw back the lost income it is suffering now.

[Spanish eyes]

The signs are there for a challenging summer with the gridlock of the airport approach roads this afternoon. This is not helped by drivers blocking exit routes on the Holiday Inn roundabout as they force their way onto the roundabout that then stops other drivers exiting the roundabout.

[LTNman]

Wonder what ELAl would think if they knew the owner of Luton Airport is flying the Palestinian flag over the Town Hall?

[pabely]

Wonder what ELAl would think if they knew the owner of Luton Airport is flying the Palestinian flag over the Town Hall?
And protests in London every weekend, best stop flying to London - oh, who is majority owner of Heathrow who allows swarn enemies to live in luxury away from the action! And US just did not veto a UN vote, stop flying to USA.
You are just stirring again.