View Full Version : ‘Game, set, match’ Cathay.
Airblast
28th Nov 2020, 01:45
SCMP 27/11
« Cathay Pacific Airways is to stop negotiating with its Flight Attendants Union (FAU) over pay and conditions, calling it an “outdated practice” no longer relevant to the modern world.In response, the union, which represents more than 80 per cent of existing staff, called the move its “greatest setback” in a decade.
The airline’s management said it would engage with employees directly through digital communication platforms, adding it would no longer recognise the “old fashioned confrontational legacy practices” of the past. »
SaulGoodman
28th Nov 2020, 08:13
Utter BS!!
Why don’t you ask the unions in US and European legacies?
veryoldchinahand
28th Nov 2020, 10:33
CX a legacy carrier ?
Didn't almost all of the US 'legacy"outfits go broke with those left being saddled with many incredibly expensive 'long serving' cabin crew most who stopped actually serving the passengers a decade or so ago ?
The BA flight attendants union also rather shot themselves in the foot it seems resulting in a low cost BA cabin crew competitor with the high cost union members being slowly squeezed out ?
Flex88
28th Nov 2020, 19:25
The "Fat Lady" has just sang!
Labour negotiations with "Asian Values"😳 The New Normal.....
snoop doggy dog
28th Nov 2020, 22:44
Meanwhile at the Peak.... Senior Management are enjoying their bonuses and all the trimmings of their contracts :ugh:
controlledrest
29th Nov 2020, 20:08
CX a legacy carrier ?
Not now. Just a LLC who treat their staff with utter contempt.
veryoldchinahand
Yup... This!
They refused to allow new contract crew to fly on the legacy fleets... That created "Mixed Fleet" where the company could do what they liked with their new, budget cabin crew.
All BA had to do was keep adding people to their new fleet and Bob's your uncle (helped along by Covid)
wiggy
30th Nov 2020, 18:37
BA MF were indeed relatively "low cost", for sure, but they as a group became increasingly unionised and finally, eventually, even indulged in IA, so perhaps not quite the model Cathay management might have in mind...
https://de.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-strikes-british-airways/british-airways-mixed-fleet-cabin-crew-to-strike-for-another-four-days-idUKKBN15T27Y
Pickuptruck
1st Dec 2020, 04:18
Utter BS!!
Why don’t you ask the unions in US and European legacies?
Why don’t you ask the ex USA legacy sim instructors at CX who lost over 60% of their pension funds, taken by the USA legacy carriers they worked for....
the goose
29th Dec 2020, 15:17
veryoldchinahand
While it’s true most US ‘Legacies’ have declared Ch.11 bankruptcy at some point, most were able to rebuild successfully back to profitability pre-covid. The unionisation of pilots and flight attendants has lead to the improvement and preservation of conditions (albeit losing pension programs which have been replaced by generous superannuation packages).
At the same time conditions at international ‘legacy’ outfits around the world have deteriorated. I’d be willing to go out on a limb and say that total compensation and conditions at US legacy airlines are way ahead of any airline gig around the world.
I also believe this is fact. Every US legacy airline is significantly ahead, in terms of total compensation, of the rest of the world carriers. For now at least. One thing for certain, things can change as Cathay has proven. Cathay was once ahead of the US legacies.
Sam Ting Wong
30th Dec 2020, 07:17
What is the point of comparing US majors with Cathay?
Flying Clog
30th Dec 2020, 11:29
Because I'm sure we'd all rather be back at our 'home' legacy carriers in Europe or US than in this :mad: working for these :mad: So it's an excellent barometer of our poor decision making coming to Cathay in the first place.
Piet Lood
30th Dec 2020, 22:05
That’s not the answer STW was looking for, FC.
Stop slapping his blinkers off.
He still enjoys the cx pineapple, so YOU WILL TOO!
(Happy 2021 STW😘).
Sam Ting Wong
31st Dec 2020, 05:55
If you compare CX with Asian airlines and not with the 64 year old captain at UPS one would get a more helpful and (slightly) less depressing picture.
Piet, you are misled that I enjoy being with CX, quite the opposite actually. The difference between you and me is that I blame the market, you blame management or co-workers.
PS The median pay in the US pre-covid was 120 k USD. Before tax.
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/airline-and-commercial-pilots.htm
Piet Lood
31st Dec 2020, 11:17
That’s far from the only difference mate!
For one: I am also much better looking!
8driver
31st Dec 2020, 16:25
Sam Ting Wong
What a crock of sh**. A fifth year UPS captain made $287,000 dollars at guarantee on the 2018 salary scale. I don't know what it is now. And don't forget, they go by years in company not years in seat when you upgrade, so most of their captains are making more than that. I don't have my w-2 in front of me but I think I made 15,000 less than that as a based captain in 2019. I know they shoved that POS CoS down your throat over there, but it's an abomination. I know they are gonna try to shove it down my throat as well. Median my ass. I don't fly a damned RJ. So you can stuff that argument STW. When things turn around (and they will), and they are trying to get the jets out of the desert and back in the air, you boys in HKG better pay them back in spades.
Piet Lood
31st Dec 2020, 17:13
They won’t.
mngmt mole
31st Dec 2020, 22:43
Many mainline US Captains are making close to $500k (some close to $1m with overtime at Fedex). That does not even include their medical and retirement benefits. At one time CX provided the best package in the industry. How the mighty have fallen...
Piet Lood
1st Jan 2021, 02:24
Exactly.
STW isn’t wrong: he blames it on market forces.
I indeed blame it on a lack of spine(s).
MainDude
1st Jan 2021, 10:41
It's a matter of time that market forces would favour more efficient operators then. Don't expect those salary levels to last.
grizzled
6th Jan 2021, 04:51
Ladies and Gents: It's not the market, it's not the managers, it's not Covid.
The future of CX, and all the other internationally well-known companies based in Hong Kong, was sealed from the moment PRC took back Hong Kong. Anyone who thought (or even sadder, still thinks) that "one country, two systems" was ever anything more than a slogan to pacify the people of Hong Kong, and the West, hasn't read their history.
True. Repressive systems accommodate repressive companies.
There should be a table classifying all airlines by their company culture as a sticky in the wannabe section. Future pilots should be able to make informed decisions. I couldn't.