View Full Version : 2 blades helicopter
172510
18th Oct 2020, 17:55
As far as I know the largest 2 blade helicopter is the bell 505 and is not IFR certified.
Is there any 2 blade helicopter certified for IFR operation?
Bell_ringer
18th Oct 2020, 18:20
Bell 222/230?
Usually more to do with the number of engines but also depends on what your local authority is happy to accept.
Nubian
18th Oct 2020, 18:45
As far as I know the largest 2 blade helicopter is the bell 505 and is not IFR certified.
Is there any 2 blade helicopter certified for IFR operation?
I wonder where you have that info from?! The largest 2 blade helicopter certified for IFR is the Bell 214ST. Below that you’ve got the 212. I think you can get some variants of the 206 IFR certified as well.
gulliBell
18th Oct 2020, 22:04
Nubian is correct.
Bell 505 is the replacement for the Bell 206. A 5 place helicoper.
evil7
23rd Oct 2020, 10:42
I thought in the US you can even get your "IFR" ticket on a R22 / R44 :ugh:- are they not IFR certified, then?? :}
Bell_ringer
23rd Oct 2020, 12:17
I thought in the US you can even get your "IFR" ticket on a R22 / R44 :ugh:- are they not IFR certified, then?? :}
Most places do IF training in VMC on VFR aircraft, nothing new about training under the hood.
The hardest part (on pistons) is finding one with the minimum equipment. There weren't many Robbos with a full panel, but with newer aircraft having some form of glass panel that is less of a problem.
aa777888
23rd Oct 2020, 14:05
There weren't many Robbos with a full panelThere are plenty around here (Northeast US). No shortage of them.
but with newer aircraft having some form of glass panel that is less of a problem.It is really remarkable how strongly Robinson bought into glass. It's only a little exaggeration to wonder if there is a single 66 being delivered without glass and an autopilot these days, and probably a fair number of 44's, too. And they really hit it out of the park by offering the HeliSAS autopilot well before the 505 and given that such a thing is a rarity in a 120, 206 or 500 since they were all produced before something with a HeliSAS price point came along (now waiting for someone to tell me it's not a real autopilot, only a SAS, but I don't care if it can hold altitude and course while I eat a sandwich with both hands :ok:)
Robbiee
24th Oct 2020, 00:07
Most places do IF training in VMC on VFR aircraft, nothing new about training under the hood.
The hardest part (on pistons) is finding one with the minimum equipment. There weren't many Robbos with a full panel, but with newer aircraft having some form of glass panel that is less of a problem.
Spent thirty hours under the hood in a 44. It had all the basics, HSI, AI, TC, VOR, and a Garmin 430. We had two if them, but that was about fifteen years ago. Nowadays, the newer Cadets have a pretty nice glass setup...if your into playing the most boring video game eever made?
Flown a couple similarly equiped 22's, but I wouldn't want to try one while under the hood,...too shaky for my stomach.
Ascend Charlie
24th Oct 2020, 00:54
From what I can gather, the IFR training in Robinson machines is done in VMC, as the aircraft are not fully certified IFR.
The B206 is easily certified, and with glass screens and autopilot they are a pleasure to fly inside the clouds.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1163/aspen_proon_81803ad5082324bfe2b5779aa2ba6a20b53744a8.jpg
Robbiee
24th Oct 2020, 01:11
If I ever got tired of enjoying the view out the windshield and felt like pretending I'm a bus driver in the sky, this thing looks pretty sweet.
https://youtu.be/1gxQK8CB7zo
Evil Twin
24th Oct 2020, 03:52
From what I can gather, the IFR training in Robinson machines is done in VMC, as the aircraft are not fully certified IFR.
The B206 is easily certified, and with glass screens and autopilot they are a pleasure to fly inside the clouds.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1163/aspen_proon_81803ad5082324bfe2b5779aa2ba6a20b53744a8.jpg
That's a familiar view Charlie. I've a few of hundred hours looking at that view myself, my logbook says a few with you sitting next to me!
Ascend Charlie
24th Oct 2020, 05:00
That might have been you, Evil, slightly off centreline...
Evil Twin
24th Oct 2020, 07:55
That might have been you, Evil, slightly off centreline...
Highly likely haha.
albatross
24th Oct 2020, 15:41
Old story: “Speedbird 458, Approach, radar shows you slightly left of the localizer.”
“Approach, Speedbird 458 , yes and my co-pilot is slightly right of the localizer.”
Paul Cantrell
28th Oct 2020, 17:14
Spent thirty hours under the hood in a 44. It had all the basics, HSI, AI, TC, VOR, and a Garmin 430. We had two if them, but that was about fifteen years ago. Nowadays, the newer Cadets have a pretty nice glass setup...if your into playing the most boring video game eever made?
Flown a couple similarly equiped 22's, but I wouldn't want to try one while under the hood,...too shaky for my stomach.
Yeah, I did my IFR/CFII ratings in a R22 instrument trainer. ( N22HF ). Several problems with this... The large panel made for a very forward CG. I did a pedal turn once, and ran out of aft stick in probably a 10 knot tailwind.
The other New England school with one typically used their Japanese instructors as their CFII because those guys were lightweight. For me, I couldn't fly with much less than 8 gallons of fuel, or I'd be out the front CG, and not much more that 15 or I'd be over gross. So, we'd fill it to 15, fly an hour, and need to refuel. Just enough fuel for one approach!
The other problem with the R22 instrument trainer was it was so lightweight, it could be difficult to fly a precise altitude under the hood in the summer, as flying over a parking lot would inevitably put you in a rising column of air with subsequent gains in altitude.
Finally, the things were so heavy that they were slow, meaning flying an approach was a prolonged affair ( it would only do about 85 knots in level flight ).
The R44, on the other hand, makes a great instrument trainer, having lots of weight capability and the blistering speed of a Cessna 172, meaning you can actually go someplace to fly approaches, without having to arrange for overnight accommodations.
As someone mentioned already, in the US you can file and fly IFR in a VFR only aircraft ( if you are appropriately rated ), you just can't go IMC. Most days that's not a problem, but can occasionally confuse ATC when you have to tell them "unable", if they give you a clearance that would take you into the clouds. 90% of the time after you patiently explain this to them, they tell you to cancel IFR and please go annoy some other facility. :}
Paul Cantrell
28th Oct 2020, 17:35
The B206 is easily certified, and with glass screens and autopilot they are a pleasure to fly inside the clouds.
Well, I'm not sure about the "pleasure" part. Granted all my Bell IMC time was in a L3, but I inevitably got wet because all 206s seem to be designed to drip on the pilot, or more precisely the pilot's instrument approach plates and crotch - which could be difficult to explain to people at the end of the flight. Perhaps all helicopters leak, but Bell perfected that attribute in the 206!
But also, slogging through the sky at 110 knots into the inevitable headwind is great for adding hours to the "actual IFR" column of your logbook, but not so great for actually getting anywhere! ( ok, I've always flown on high skid gear, and have been reliably informed that with low skid gear the 206 can blaze through the overcast at an astounding 115 knots ).
I love many things about the 206, but it's not exactly a stellar IFR performer. But I reluctantly agree, it's fun to go in the clouds on a day when you don't have to be anywhere specific. :ugh: