USMC Mid-Air - F-35/KC-130

[ORAC]

https://nbcpalmsprings.com/2020/10/13/update-on-military-plane-that-made-emergency-landing-in-thermal/



The C-130 Military cargo plane has been moved to the Jacqueline Cochran Airport in Thermal. NBC Palm Springs viewer Steve Randall shared these photos with us.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x576/thermal_plane_1_credit_steve_randall_jpeg_8b5b8244e8a20df418 db28154c0bd799a80ccfc0.jpg



https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x576/thermal_plane_3_credit_steve_randall_jpeg_d0026da5f035ddb89d db692baf95b8bf48088eb5.jpg



https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x576/thermal_plane_5_credit_steve_randall_jpeg_3d82fa215b65559795 a7dfa11db454d1cbf55aff.jpg


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x576/thermal_plane_7_credit_steve_randall_jpeg_e79a3dacc25275cd1e 800d32dc375537239c51df.jpg

[Pugilistic Animus]

the issue comes when callsigns subsequently join the frequency and just hear a callsign being mentioned i.e. RAIDER50 vs MAYDAY RAIDER50.

It is the normal procedure for ATC and crews to append their callsign with mayday so that EVERYONE knows what is happening and can then minimise transmissions.

Either way, the crew got ATCs attention and walked away to tell the tale, that's the main point.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0U2zJOryHKQ
:}

[NutLoose]

More images, you can see the creasing of the front fuselage by the door and it looks like the prop warning markings are a couple of foot aft of the impact points.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37257/check-out-the-hulk-of-that-c-130j-that-collided-with-an-f-35b-over-southern-california

[ancientaviator62]

NutLoose,
thanks for the link. I had not realised that the USMC tankers dispensed fuel with the ramp open ! I wonder what speed they operate at.

[Tashengurt]

More images, you can see the creasing of the front fuselage by the door and it looks like the prop warning markings are a couple of foot aft of the impact points.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37257/check-out-the-hulk-of-that-c-130j-that-collided-with-an-f-35b-over-southern-california

Interesting 'tide line' on the fuselage, could be soot but I'm sure could equally be from foam or an irrigation sprinkler in the field.

[RAFEngO74to09]

The KC-130J air-to-air refueling speed range is 100 knots to 270 knots.

[ancientaviator62]

A good speed range but IMHO the ramp and door would not be open at the upper limit. Perhaps the picture I saw was just a publicity shot without actual tanking taking place. If memory serves the RAF C130K tanker dispensed at 185 kts.

[sycamore]

aa62, can`t find my little `blue-book` for tanking guidlines,but we`d always try to do it over 200 kts,assuming one was not too heavy...
Interesting to see that NP2000 props(8-bladed composites) are being retrofitted to other Herks in place of the metal paddles.
Interesting to read the investigation into the break-up of Bu.No 16500 over Mississippi,after a blade on #2 let go....!
Remind me of the `ramp and door `speed limits on our K` ,not tankers....another subject..

[Just This Once...]

A good speed range but IMHO the ramp and door would not be open at the upper limit. Perhaps the picture I saw was just a publicity shot without actual tanking taking place. If memory serves the RAF C130K tanker dispensed at 185 kts.

Remind me of the `ramp and door `speed limits on our K` ,not tankers....another subject..

It's been a while and I have too many types in my head:

150kts ramp and door (no HSR / shutters on a K)
170kts door only (no HSD or uprated actuator on a K)

I think...

[sycamore]

Thanks JTO,...clarify HSD/HSR please...?

[Just This Once...]

High Speed Ramp (shuttering fixed to the sides of the ramp).
High Speed (cargo) Door (slightly different actuator(s)with or without fuselage rib/skin changes).

[WIDN62]

C130K and J, 185 Kts for the door only.

[NutLoose]

So what type of ramp is this :E


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/679x326/eeb_geiwoaalak5_ffba074505da1fc8d0b55125bde8ff125e658271.jpg

[RAFEngO74to09]

250 knots ramp on the KC-130J - from the USMC Concepts & Programs website:

https://www.candp.marines.mil/Programs/Focus-Area-4-Modernization-Technology/Part-5-Aviation/KC-130J/

[sycamore]

Nutty,what,where,when?...Braking action -poor;grass is `damp....!!

JTO ,Thanks...

[NutLoose]

Sycamore

Cameroon Air Force C-130H damaged after overshooting runway (http://www.c-130.net/c-130-news-article626.html)

[ancientaviator62]

Thank you for the explanation of those abbreviations. No such 'go faster' devices on the 'K' during my time on the a/c. We even had to bunt the a/c slightly to get the cargo door into the uplock.
Interesting about the speed of the C130J. IIRC this could be north of the VNO of the 'K.'

[SpazSinbad]

Long article from the HERC crew about the collision by the F-35B. Appears the F-35B pilot closed TOO FAST but there could be other explanations but not in this good story from the SUPER J crew:

‘We're leaking fuel and we might be on fire’ How a Pair of KC-130J Pilots, Crew Saved Their Plane After a Collision with an F-35 - USNI News (https://news.usni.org/2022/06/21/were-leaking-fuel-and-we-might-be-on-fire-how-a-pair-of-kc-130j-pilots-crew-saved-their-plane-after-a-collision-with-an-f-35)

...things quickly spiraled as the F-35B, call sign “Bolt 93,” collided with the tanker.... “It was a really violent collision,” recalled Wolff,..."

F-35B crash after mid air collision with KC-130J on 29 Sep 2020 - YouTube

[SpazSinbad]

Raider Five Zero on Fire: An Impossible Story of Survival 2 Miles High
Matt White 24 Nov 2022 Coffee or Die Magazine https://www.coffeeordie.com/raider-five-zero

"...The pilot of Bolt 93 replied, “Yeah, stand by.” He later told investigators he then went “heads down,” checking bingo math and distances on a kneeboard as the formation continued the slow turn back to the south.

But that turn was now complete. Just as the pilot of Bolt 93 went “heads down,” Jones began to roll Raider 50 onto a straight heading. There is no rule in Marine aviation that requires tanker pilots to announce turns. In combat, air refueling is often done with no radio chatter at all. As Raider 50 leveled out, Bolt 93 stayed in a 17-degree left turn — directly toward Raider 50.

A loadmaster called out on the tanker’s intercom: “Nine Three’s coming in fast!” He turned away to shelter from the impact when the jet was about 10 feet from his window.

The fighter tore into both of the tanker’s engines, shattering the propellers. The doomed jet twisted into the side of the tanker’s fuselage, tearing a gash through the plane’s landing gear compartment.

At 4:03 and 55 seconds, the pilot of Bolt 94 realized a disaster was unfolding with Bolt 93 in an “uncontrolled vector” toward the tanker. He called out helplessly, “Easy, easy, easy, PUSH OVER, PUSH OVER, PUSH OVER!” —an instruction equivalent to “Dive!”

Inside Raider 50, the loadmaster on the right side simply yelled into the intercom: “Oh ****, oh ****, oh ****!”

At 4:03:57, 13 seconds after Bolt 93’s pilot went “heads down,” the F-35’s nose slammed into the bottom of Raider 50’s right wing at 16,920 feet and 264 mph. The fighter tore into both of the tanker’s engines, shattering the propellers. It also ripped loose the hose pod, causing a torrent of fuel to begin spraying out. Finally, the doomed jet twisted into the side of the tanker’s fuselage, tearing a gash through the plane’s landing gear compartment.

In Bolt 94, the pilot watched a momentary fireball engulf the F-35 and most of Raider 50’s right wing. When it cleared, Bolt 93 was gone, tumbling away. In the next minute, the pilot of Bolt 94 called out three times for his wingman to eject. He got no response...."

Photo: "A Marine Corps KC-130J during an air-to-air refueling of two F-35B Lightning IIs. To receive fuel, the fighters connect to the hoses reeled out behind each wing. US Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Olivia G. Ortiz." https://brcc.brightspotgocdn.com/dims4/default/14c3b57/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1200x725+0+0/resize/2400x1450!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrightspot-go-k1-brcc.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F4e%2F34%2F1f26fa1f416d8 309900962bae01a%2F1826193.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1598x997/f_35bs_kc_130j_arf_ed_e8e933a279a97ac89497cd2962fe5a3c71bb2f 79.jpg