A320 Bleed1 leak + Eng 2 fault

[Andy Li]

If we have bleed 1 leak already，And we continue cruising fl300. we get eng2 fault Ecam. What should we do first,

[gegemi]

Do you mean ENG 2 FAIL or ENG 2 BLEED FAULT ?

[sonicbum]

If we have bleed 1 leak already，And we continue cruising fl300. we get eng2 fault Ecam. What should we do first,

After your AIR ENG 1 BLEED LEAK procedure is completed, good airmanship dictates that you run the "what if" scenarios, and that would include ENG 2 failure / BLEED 2 failure / PACK 2 failure and so on. By doing that You have already 90% of the answer.
In that case You would have briefed that in case of ENG 2 failure, You would apply -as usual- Airbus golden rule #1 first, that is fly (apply the Engine failure in cruise technique) - navigate (according to regional procedures that you have already briefed) - comunicate (get your oxygen masks on - seat the cabin crew - and talk to ATC).
You find now yourself in a scenario of a slow (500/700 fpm) decompression, the aircraft is under control and descending to the drift down altitude, you have your oxygen masks on you are ready to handle the ECAM, which will prioritise the engine failure. From your briefing You also know that you will not be able to recover the pressurisation below FL200 by using the APU bleed, as the crossbleed is shut and you had a leak on the left side, hence you will need to descend to 10'000 ft/MEA. Chances are that you will make it without exceeding 14'000 ft cabin altitude and no pax oxy masks will be deployed. Deal with the ECAM and divert.

Keypoint : if something happens in flight or you leave with a MEL run "what if" scenarios. You will then be exposed to a minimum amount of surprise and startle - which is what we ideally want to avoid.

[vilas]

I don't think there's anything like Eng2 fault. It has to be more specific. ECAM drill will appear just do it. If it has something to do with pressurization it will ask you to descend. Good to have SA but nothing out of the hat is required.

[mantoga_srs]

Very nice explanation. I recall there are three cases when pressurization can not be recovered by using the APU BLEED. One of them as you said is if we have a leak on the left side. Do you know which are the other cases? Thank you in advance.

[vilas]

Very nice explanation. I recall there are three cases when pressurization can not be recovered by using the APU BLEED. One of them as you said is if we have a leak on the left side. Do you know which are the other cases? Thank you in advance.
No1 engine fail with damage. Wing leak on No1.

[Rocket3837]

Descend immediately and make it a fast descent (i.e. retard live eng to idle) if you are not "obstacle restricted"..... Also standby for Emergency descent.

[mantoga_srs]

I just found what I was looking for.

You will not be able to recover pressurization by using the APU BLEED in three different cases:
1) Air bleed leak on the left side
2) In cas we did not have a engine failure with damage so we had pushed the engine fire push button
3) If start valve has not failed open

[PapaEchoIndia]

For 321NEO, BLEED LEAK is a red ECAM, which means LAND ASAP RED. Also as per ECAM, shutting the X BLEED should isolate the leak. So rapid descent MORA/MSA then aim for 10000 ft, looking for a suitable airport at the same time.

[hikoushi]

For 321NEO, BLEED LEAK is a red ECAM, which means LAND ASAP RED. Also as per ECAM, shutting the X BLEED should isolate the leak. So rapid descent MORA/MSA then aim for 10000 ft, looking for a suitable airport at the same time.

Not sure which engine model you are working with, but for the PW equipped 321NEO that information is not accurate. I have had one in the aircraft, and the BLEED LEAK is an amber ECAM and there is no LAND ASAP associated with it. Again, PW engines.

[sonicbum]

For 321NEO, BLEED LEAK is a red ECAM, which means LAND ASAP RED. Also as per ECAM, shutting the X BLEED should isolate the leak. So rapid descent MORA/MSA then aim for 10000 ft, looking for a suitable airport at the same time.

The warning you are mentioning is slightly different :

Triggering Conditions:
This alert triggers when a leak is detected in a bleed duct and the X-BLEED selector is set to OPEN.

There is no LAND ASAP red involved, as the crossbleed will automatically close and You will be required to close it manually as well by the procedure. You should then be left with the origin of the problem, either an ENG bleed leak or a wing.

To be honest I haven’t tried it in the NEO sim so can’t comment further. Restrictions permitting I look forward for a ride next week and will give it a try.

[PapaEchoIndia]

Not sure which engine model you are working with, but for the PW equipped 321NEO that information is not accurate. I have had one in the aircraft, and the BLEED LEAK is an amber ECAM and there is no LAND ASAP associated with it. Again, PW engines.

PW Engines here too. Just checked FCOM after your and sonicbum’s messages, no LAND ASAP RED, however in the FCOM it is red warning or am i missing a point agaşn? Thank you & sonicbum for correction anyway.

[hzz661225]

your scenerios is untenable
when you got bleed 1 leak and you still choose to cruise at FL300 OTHER than desend and anticipate divertion， you will be failed immediated。。

[sonicbum]

your scenerios is untenable
when you got bleed 1 leak and you still choose to cruise at FL300 OTHER than desend and anticipate divertion， you will be failed immediated。。

Interesting.
Can You talk us through Your reasoning and procedure application on this matter ?

[hzz661225]

Interesting.
Can You talk us through Your reasoning and procedure application on this matter ?

Air bleed 1 leak leads to unusable apu bleed ，eng bleed1 and pack1 whcih means you fly the bus with eng2 bleed and pack2 ONLY

the decision to continue crusing means low safety margin usually airbus do not recommend fly the bus with no back-up sys

[Nick 1]

What about if you have this situation in the middle of Atlantic ? Or imagine you are in cruise over a big storm or cb squall line , what will be your
action ? I don’t understand the TRE philosophy descent means fail . He gave you any explanation on debriefing ?

[sonicbum]

Air bleed 1 leak leads to unusable apu bleed ，eng bleed1 and pack1 whcih means you fly the bus with eng2 bleed and pack2 ONLY

the decision to continue crusing means low safety margin usually airbus do not recommend fly the bus with no back-up sys

Hi hzz661225 and thanks for your feedback.

Consider this : as per A320 MEL, you are legal to dispatch in a single bleed and single pack configuration, however should that happen in flight as a result of a failure or combination of failures, the most important aspect is that whatever your decision is, the latter is taken based on appropriate elements. When running the "what if" scenarios (that's basically what we do most of the time on ground and in flight, be it in normal or abnormal conditions) we evaluate risks and benefits of our potential plans and it might well be that some circumstances dictate a diversion whilst others do not necessarily.
In highly standardized operators there is no such thing as decision A is a pass and B is a fail because TRE SoAndSo thinks this way. TRE SoAndSo must evaluate based on facts and observable elements at the time of the test and be open to a huge variety of thought processes that he/she should be able to recognize and discuss with the candidates during the debriefing.
So my point is : if a sim scenario has only one possibile outcome according to your training department, then I am afraid this is where the real issues are.

[hzz661225]

Hi hzz661225 and thanks for your feedback.

Consider this : as per A320 MEL, you are legal to dispatch in a single bleed and single pack configuration, however should that happen in flight as a result of a failure or combination of failures, the most important aspect is that whatever your decision is, the latter is taken based on appropriate elements. When running the "what if" scenarios (that's basically what we do most of the time on ground and in flight, be it in normal or abnormal conditions) we evaluate risks and benefits of our potential plans and it might well be that some circumstances dictate a diversion whilst others do not necessarily.
In highly standardized operators there is no such thing as decision A is a pass and B is a fail because TRE SoAndSo thinks this way. TRE SoAndSo must evaluate based on facts and observable elements at the time of the test and be open to a huge variety of thought processes that he/she should be able to recognize and discuss with the candidates during the debriefing.
So my point is : if a sim scenario has only one possibile outcome according to your training department, then I am afraid this is where the real issues are.

well i guess that is the cultural diversities lol
i am from asia our tre always want us being conservative
So in that case we are being taught to divert to nearest suiltable airport...