Ettyl

[Jenny Tails]

It looks like another 'virtual airline' has appeared on the Isle of Man.

[allan1987]

They did try to run before covid hit with SUN-AIR to IOM

On Ettyl's Facebook
All flights on sale during the TT are operated on the ATR 72-600 by Eastern Airways

[fanrailuk]

Worrying that someone who is the supposed Head of Commercial Operations for a proposed "virtual airline" doesn't know the IATA code for Liverpool John Lennon :confused:

[OC37]

Particularly during current times if all you have to worry about is an airport IATA code then you must be the luckiest guy alive!

[flyerguy]

You can book flights for May/June 2021 .... Not Liverpool though

[Jenny Tails]

However, we are aware of the perception of virtual airlines on the Isle of Man (and the wider community) and are keen to avoid this tag going forward.


The reputation of so-called virtual airlines is there for a reason.

What makes your virtual airline any different from what has gone before?

Does your operation have any form of oversight from CAA, ATOL, or ABTA? Excluding the obvious bit which is Eastern having an AOC.

[flyerguy]

have they secured MAN slots also, as the slot rules remain in place for S21

[planedrive]

Hopefully they'll be shut down before they get flying. The IOM needs to get a grip on these cowboy outfits before it leads to another Manx2. People lost their lives, I hope this doesn't have to be repeated before this practice is banned.

[Flightrider]

Isn't there a more fundamental issue here? This lot are selling tickets on an aircraft on which they have chartered but are not the operator, and don't have any form of visible ATOL licensing or authority to act on behalf of the AOC holder to act as a ticket provider. Right now, unless they have some suitable authority, it's breaking the law!

[globetrotter79]

I don’t believe there is such a thing as an ATOL license in the Manx jurisdiction? Assuming correct, there’s little to stop them selling seats to local punters on the island.

...that said, since the whole set up appears totally geared to selling to origin markets NOT based on the island, the UK CAA might take a rather different view.

[planedrive]

Flightrider

Illegal in the UK, allowed in the Isle Of Man. I once had a very good friend who operated for a company running services for an 'airline' that operated the same set up. He is unfortunately no longer with us due to this absurd technicality. I thought that the Isle of Man government had finally seen sense with the ending of the second iteration of Manx2, but unfortunately it seems to not be the case. I will be writing to my MP, and to the DfT to try and ensure that this 'airline' never takes to the skies. I hope anyone with any interest in aviation safety and oversight in the UK will do the same. This should NOT be allowed.

[planedrive]

Also a great sign: Have a google of the MD- Jason Scales. This results comes up: https://sites.google.com/site/jasonscalesfraud/

A young MD, with no airline experience to speak of, who has a website dedicated to an alleged fraud. Come on IOM government, shut this down before it gets out of hand.

[davidjohnson6]

Are we judging a company and its people to be guilty before it has taken any substantive actions ?
Perhaps better for the people and Government of the IoM who desire to make their own laws independent of the UK to decide what regulation they desire ? Or maybe wait until the company is seen to have engaged in unsafe practices before regulators shut it down ?
The CAA can make rules, inspect companies for compliance and if a travel-centric company breaks those rules the CAA can clobber them.... but the company should at least be given the opportunity to comply with those rules before forbidding them from even starting

[JSCL]

planedrive

This is getting a little overhyped and out of hand now and the age is wrong too. You're making some very emotional and overhyped assertions.

Allow me to clarify a few points:
1) The article you reference pertains to a company I was contracted to assist, messy but no relevance to my personal circumstances. If it really matters to you, way back when I had my first business aged 12, nominated for the Daily Mail Enterprising Young Brits awards and have successfully established and exited multiple businesses of my own and helped others too. Ive had business failures too in that time, but i dont lead in to any investment without knowing that risk. Youre right, I've never been directly involved with aviation from an operational perspective but have hired the relevant people who do and working with strategic partners who safely operate in the sector to work on this with as a travel business.

2) This is not an airline. My primary business is in commercial property on the Island, we have set from the outset that it is a sole purpose endeavour for the Isle of Man TT. There is an assumption that this is a reincarnation of Manx2, it really isn't. We are partnering with reputable carriers, not far flung European ones (not that there's necessarily a problem with that, I guess) and we are not in any way trying to represent being an airline although the model is for seat only sales. It is actually for the good of the Island and its people. We have spent a number of weeks over the summer supporting and sponsoring local events and the Islands economy.

3) There are other separate conversations ongoing around securing relevant regulatory approval to service scheduled routes for the Isle of Man, but this will categorically not be done under a VA model and who knows if it will ever happen.

Aside from that - and with very open dialogue with relevant local authorities - the travel business will service niche opportunities and events on the Island.

[planedrive]

A website hastily edited from saying they have an ATR72-600 'in their fleet' to this:

"[sic] What aircraft will I be flyin on?
Ettyl is not an airline and therefore does not operate its' own fleet. Our currently flights on sale for the Isle of Man TT 2021 are operated on an ATR 72-600."

Question 1) Why were they trying to mislead customers in the first place only to change it when pointed out?
Question 2) Is there no spelling/grammar checker in their website host system?

Amateur mistakes like this and you reckon we should leave them to run an 'airline' and just keep our fingers crossed. I'd rather action was taken before something went wrong.

[Flightrider]

If they are selling tickets in the UK - and you can book for travel originating in the UK - you need an ATOL, an exemption from the need to hold an ATOL or an approved ticket seller agreement with the AOC holder. I can't see any sign of any of those and you have to have at least one of these three things before you sell tickets - not just by the time you fly. I don't know the equivalent regs in the IOM, but those are the requirements in the UK. The reply about the Daily Mail business awards is a good read, but what about the question that really matters - is this venture (in its current form and at this time) actually legal?

[flyerguy]

Looking at Flights for Saturday - they need at least 2 Eastern ATR72
0700 BHD

0700 MAN

0920 GLA

0940 DUB

1200 CWL

1210 BHX

1610 MAN

1630 GLA

1850 DUB

1910 BHD

[flyerguy]

Flight-rider

Jason Scales ‘MD’ has stated that if they continue with Scheduled services they won’t be a Virtual Airline.

I’m told that the IOM government were discussing the future of flights over the next few days, so we will have to await the outcome of that

[JSCL]

Flightrider

The sale of a package in the UK requires ATOL and lets be honest here, we've all seen operators selling packages originating in the UK using Spanish (or other jurisdiction) bonding rather than the CAAs ATOL. Which is a ridiculous yet compliant practice.

In this instance, ATOL regulations have no standing in the Isle of Man but we have been in dialogue with both the IOM and UK CAA to ensure compliance with the 'Airline Ticketing Agent' rules in respect of the IOM TT 2021 and there are contracts in place with the operating carrier. So in response to your question, yes. There is no mark, no seal or badge to display in respect of this as you would with ATOL.

To clarify again: in its current form, this is not an airline, virtual airline or attempt to be anything in between. Its a travel business focussed on crearing much needed lower cost capacity for a specific event. The UK - unlike the US - does not have separate governance of 'public charters'. If - big if - we look to do anything more including our current review of undertaking scheduled services, then we will only do this in a fully regulated manner than a half botched bandaid airline. But that's still early days.

[Jenny Tails]

Apologies for my confusion but it does sound a lot like a virtual airline.

[Jenny Tails]

davidjohnson6

I'm not angry at the company. I'm angry that lessons clearly haven't been learned by those who supposedly make up the rules - or else these loopholes would have been sealed shut. It's all well and good if the Isle of Man wish to make their own laws but at least look where that ended up last time.

[Flightrider]

ATOL regulations may have no standing in the IOM, but as you are selling tickets to UK passengers for travel originating in the UK, you are bound by the regulations for any such sales. The ATOL regulations do not apply only to packages - they apply to seat-only services as well.

If you are acting as a ticket agent on behalf of an AOC holder, you are required to make that clear. I am sure that the CAA would have told you that. I cannot imagine that they have sanctioned an arrangement where there is an obvious absence of transparency, especially given the sensitivity around this. It is a legal obligation that the passenger must be aware of the party with whom they are entering into a contract for carriage. The ticket agent arrangement also means that if Ettyl was to cease trading, the AOC holder (so Eastern) would have an obligation to either carry the passenger or refund their money if they elected not to fly (and pay compensation depending on the notice given of flight cancellation).

Let's cut to the chase:

Question 1
If I buy a ticket from you, with whom am I entering into a contract?

Question 2
Does your agreement to charter the aircraft from the AOC holder either include an agreement for you to act as a ticketing agent on the operator's behalf or is there a separate such agreement?

Question 3
Have you actually received UK CAA acceptance of this or any other arrangement which confirms you are exempt from the need to hold an ATOL?

[OC37]

Wow,

I last viewed this thread only some 12 hours ago and upon my return it has all kicked off with perhaps the only words of reason coming from davidjohnson6.

I predicted to myself that this or similar situation would happen, that all the critics and nay sayers bored during lockdown would emerge having experienced a similar situation on PPRuNe myself.

Now to try and put things in to some perspective if operating flights utilising another operator's aircraft is unacceptable and worthy of ban then that puts an end to the commonplace practice of sub-chartering and sub-leasing, aren't codeshare agreements doing precisely that and as another example where would Australia have been during the 1989/1990 pilots dispute had Ansett and Australian Airlines not been selling tickets for travel on the aircraft of European operators?

And operating one's own aircraft on another operator's AOC has been a common practice also with a prime example of this being easyJet, when easyJet started selling tickets and operating they didn't even have an AOC or a ground operations department, they were operating on Air Foyle's AOC and who would have heard of a guy 'Stellios' at that time, had there been the internet and rumour network in those days might he have found himself being accused of being a fraudster with less than knowledgable individuals threatening to write to their MP's to have his operation grounded?

Now having been thru a similar kangaroo court situation here myself I have some sympathy towards these people at Ettyl, PPRuNe is paid for by revenue earned from commercial advertising, individual posters here are not permitted to commercially advertise and even Jenny Tails posting the commercial link in her first post has breached the rules that we all agree to before posting here.

Bound by those same rules are the people of Ettyl, perhaps their mistake was to join this discussion in the first instance but I made that same mistake once before also, a number of you are firing off questions at these people which should they answer to they shall be effectively commercially advertising their product which PPRuNE forbids them to do and I have a hunch that the mods shall be paying particular attention to this.

As with my previous situation it was as if I had been lined up against a wall and the firing squad were taking shots at me that I had no course of defence against, not that many if any of you are likely to listen but that is what you are doing to these people at Ettyl and they are not in a position to defend against you without paying PPRuNe to commercially advertise.

[EI-BUD]

Honestly there are some sharks on here. The guy came on to a public forum and faced the critics (who are faceless and all powerful). Not having specific airline experience does not and should not rule somebody out, though clearly they need an experienced team around them to avoid expensive pitfalls etc.
We've come to a stage where the list of airlines has dwindled substantially and not withstanding the current challenges, there would seem to be few opportunities to viably enter the market. We need (imho) to welcome this development and clearly Eastern are a reputable and safe airline. That gives confidence and supporting a British airline ...

It's also a brave move to get into anything airline amidst this pandemic... so best of luck to those concerned.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Well that might be stretching things a bit!

In any case, it’s perhaps understandable hostility, given relatively recent events, not helped by some elementary mistakes on their website which won’t do anything to boost confidence in the operation.

[DaveReidUK]

I particularly liked

"our routes stretching from continent to continent"

About Ettyl (https://ettyl.im/about)

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/333x417/ettyl_route_map_bb347acfe3363231414e539d15ec8da9dd420e69.jpg

[Albert Hall]

The comparison with the early stages of easyJet is superficial and not accurate. When the business started, it did not have its own AOC and actually flew on GB Airways’ AOC before moving onto Air Foyle’s.

There was a clear and CAA approved protection structure in place around easyJet when it began, and they had hired a reputable lawyer to advise them on it.

The comparison is valid in so far as you can start without an AOC and it can be done, but that’s about as far as the similarities go.

[M-JCS]

The days of starting on somebody else's AOC are, for all intents and purposes, dead. Any enquiry to the CAA will make that very clear. As regards the Isle of Man, they don't have their own version of the CAA. All IOM operations are governed by CAA regulations.

[RVF750]

If it helps, I booked with them when they initially tried to start up. IOM-MAN. Just one pair of flights. When it didn't happen, they were quite prompt in issuing a full refund. No problem at all.
The Island really does need to drop the Open Skies model. With U2 offering MAN flights daily for three days a week imminent, it will no doubt ruin the Loganair product and lead to no IOM-MAN flights some days or at weekends. EasyJet and an Island that needs frequency and guaranteed service are not a good mix!

Good luck to anyone helping to knock certain politicians into the real world.

[flyerguy]

EZY did initially show 5 flights a week, I wouldn’t take their current schedule planning anything to go by. Remember we are in the middle of something that airlines can’t control, airlines are trying to make money. With borders effectively closed to the U.K. easyJet won’t make money on daily flights

[RVF750]

Yes, but if they can't make money they'll not bother. Daily morning and evening flights to Manchester historically only make money on some days and times of the week. That's the nature of it. If you only come when you make money its as useful as the proverbial chocolate fireguard to the community it proports to serve.

[GrahamK]

Ettyl have Announced the purchase of Stobart Air and Carlisle Airport this morning

[Alteagod]

Is it public yet as noting on any news feeds?

[GrahamK]

https://ettyl.evaske.com/

Apologies, here's the link

[Alteagod]

The link is not working but I am sure the news will start to filter out across the news networks shortly. Any details on the sale?

[lfc84]

Ettyl Limited acquires Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport Following Esken Limited’s announcement to the London Stock Exchange earlier today, Isle of Man-based Ettyl Limited (“Ettyl”) confirms it has signed agreements for its acquisition of Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport from Esken Limited, the aviation and energy infrastructure group, subject to bank consent Stobart Air will continue to operate the existing Aer Lingus Regional franchise that is currently contracted to run through to December 2022 – subject to change of control consent The intention is to retain all staff currently employed by Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport Further announcements regarding Ettyl’s development plans for Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport will be made over the coming weeks and months Commenting on the acquisition, Jason Scales, Managing Director, Ettyl Limited ‘We are delighted to have signed agreements for these acquisitions. In the immediate term it will be very much business as usual in respect of both Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport’s operations and our deal ensures that the great teams within those businesses are retaine We will be making further announcements over the coming weeks and months regarding our plans. Ettyl sees significant opportunities for increased regional connectivity as economies recover from the impacts caused by the pandemic and return to stability across the UK and Ireland.

[GrahamK]

Alteagod

Aye, looks like its been taken down.

[allan1987]

Looks to be website is being updated says coming soon on main page on website, and info page for buying Stobart Air asking now for login

[Expressflight]

I know we're living in strange times but ............

[southside bobby]

In an update to market Stobart state it is in "advanced discussions with Ettyl Ltd for the sale of its shareholding in Stobart Air & Carlisle Airport".

It added there can be no certainty an agreement will be reached or the transaction will conclude as it remains subject to contract matters and approvals.

[JobsaGoodun]

Esken are a publicly listed company so any announcement involving the disposal of Stobart Air would likely have to be timed alongside an RNS to the stock market.
Looks like someone spreading idle gossip, or if true then someone jumped the gun and is now back pedalling....Ooops!

[SWBKCB]

Quoting post #37 above - presumably there was no such announcement?

[lfc84]

Post 37 is a copy and paste captured from the Ettyl website prior to the content being removed

[sealegs]

The ESKEN media release issued at 07.00 on 20 April gives full details. Look in the INVESTOR section of their website and the item on 20 April marked DISPOSAL.Notification of Class 2 transaction - Sale of Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport

"Esken, the aviation and energy infrastructure group, announces that it has signed an agreement for the sale of its entire shareholdings in Stobart Air Unlimited Company ('SA') (which operates regional flights under a franchise agreement for Aer Lingus) and Stobart Air (UK) Limited, the owner of Carlisle Lake District Airport ('CLDA') to Ettyl Limited (Ettyl). The sale is subject to certain change of control and bank facility consents and is expected to complete by early May 2021."

There is a lot more detail in the lengthy media release.

[harriewillem]

And the CEO of Ettyl looks like a great guy too, zero understanding of aviation.. so hope he as an investor behind him... playing with others people money... he also has a nice history, one sided view from the guy that got "scammed": Jasonscalesfraud (google.com) (https://sites.google.com/site/jasonscalesfraud/)

[Albert Hall]

That seems rather harsh, particularly given the history if you read back through this thread. For me, the jury's out on this one until proven either way - especially as the deal has to go through to begin with.

[nighthawk117]

harriewillem

In fairness, Stellios had no experience of aviation when he launched Easyjet...

Ok, i'm not suggesting they are the new easyjet, but not every founder has had experience in the industry, and many of them have gone on to be a success, so I wouldnt read too much in to that. As long as he hires the right people to advise him, he might do ok.

[Alteagod]

The whole industry has been turned on its head so I'm in the waiting and see camp on this one.

[lfc84]

Ettyl Ltd., which agreed to acquire Esken's stakes in Stobart Air and the Carlisle Lake District Airport, no longer has the proposed financing for the transaction. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/esken-buyer-of-its-stake-in-stobart-air-carlisle-lake-district-airport-seeking-alternate-financing-271622220395

[Pat UK]

harriewillem

And what experience of aviation did Branston have when he decided to put his 'Virgin' tag on to British Atlantic Airways, how about Davis & Newman Shipping when they started Dan-Air, how about Niki Lauda when he started Lauda Air, Chris Amon & Bill Bryce when they started Brymon, how about Donald Trump when he started Trump Air ... The list is endless!

Wow ... He received a negative feedback off ebay ... Best we hold the front page for that one :)

[runway30]

lfc84

Well you could see this one coming. You have to question the due diligence undertaken by Esken.

[MCDU2]

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-sale-to-isle-of-man-firm-in-doubt-after-financing-issues-40480855.html

Perhaps why the financing fell through is the real question here. Indo (arguably not the most authoritative source in media) is implying that change of control clauses could well be an issue.

[Pat UK]

runway30

Due dilligence?

This reminds me of when I was needing to recolate and sell/buy property some 30+ years ago, the number of wannabee buyers that put in offers on my place that I accepted only for their subsequent mortgage applications to fall through, is due dilligence not to take investors at their word and to have a crystal ball that their proposed financing won't materialise, at that same time I recall having my offer accepted on buying a property only for the surveyor not to approve it, all that survey cost that I could have saved myself had I had due dilligence!

Then only a couple of years later I went thru it all again, this is financing whether it being buying real estate, motor transportation or indeed an airline, how many airlines have fallen through because thir expected financing packages became unavailable?

If at first you don't succeed then try and try again but there do appear to be an abundance of 'nay sayers' around these parts that are seemingly wanting Ettyl to fail at the first, second or third hurdle when there is the memainder of an obstacle race to run before that may be concluded.

[Expressflight]

I for one certainly don't want to see the deal fall through. Sometimes though, from experience, you put two and two together and they actually do make four and that's the way this looks to me.

[Dorking]

In reality the financing for business, especially those in precarious trades, is in the hands of Merchant International banks and organisations. The finance for property/motors/ fridges etc is domestic and subject to far more market pressures. Sorry but its comparing apples and pears. The major lenders will do due diligence, especially at this present time, with a tooth comb. Its something they are equipped to do. Its not wanting something to fail, but being realistic.

[Pat UK]

You suggest that the money lenders are responsible for due dilligence whereas the previous poster suggested that Esken were responsible foir due dilligence Case rested

[Dorking]

At that level, both will do a level of due diligence, albeit the money lenders will be more hard headed and ask more of the searching questions. Maybe the didnt get the answers they wanted.

[SWBKCB]

No - it's behind a paywall (as is the earlier Daily Telegraph story)

[allan1987]

Not much info other than

Last month he denied speculation that Ettyl was being bankrolled by Doug Barrowman

Ettyl can confirm that it raised concerns with the Isle of Man Constabulary as soon as it became aware of an issue with the paperwork supplied by one of the proposed third-party funders

[harriewillem]

@PATUK I support any new start up, at any location, but lets be honest certain start ups are just a joke and will do more harm than good and for those I am always worried.

Varsity Express, Firnas Airways, FlyPop... Ettyl,, they are all a painfull joke, a pipedream that went to far.. But they can hurt some serious lives... Ettyl now taking over (or not) Stobart, that is 200 families we are talking about.. their food and shelter... And it is always a 3rd party who didnt make it happen.

We live in weird times and that Ettyl and Flypop got thet attention is just because we are in this crasy time but in normal times no one would look at these pipe dreams... Flypop is starting already 5 years and now they might or might not..

I am pro any start up, but keep it real...

[southside bobby]

"Yes...but no but"...

As far as a saviour for Stobart is concerned it is the "pipe dream" or nothing but itself brought on by very "painful" Stobart mismanagement over the years.

How is Flypop hurting you hw?

[Pat UK]

harriewillem,

Jokes that went too far? How about Holland Aerolines operating Nomads, or should that be Gomads, across the North Sea?

Talking seriously though I've never heard of those first three names you mentioned but what I have heard of are Atmosphere Intercontinental Airlines, apparently the brainchild of a failed handling agent clerk who now wants to take over the world, well an airline or few anyway, then how about Aer Southeast, the guy behind that boasted some 20 years in aviation without identifying in what capacity, could have been another failed handling agent, the picture of his SF340 was straight from Google images and the crunch came when he started selling tickets without a licence.

So, pray tell, what less than public knowledge information do you have to put Ettyl in the same category as these jokes?

This thread started off last year with Ettyl being flamed for being another virtual airline, it seems that they are trying to get away from the 'virtual' tag and are now being flamed for that also, just what do they need to do, not that they need to, to satisfy these armchair critics?

200 families? From Wiki it seems that Stobart, the airline, are operating some 13 aircraft, let's say 5 crews per aircraft, that would be 260 staff, then there are management, office staff, engineers, etc., just where did you pluck the figure of 200 from?

And just how many families were affected when Flybe went down, wasn't it Stobart Air themselves along with Virgin that were going to be the saviours of many of those families, was that Ettyl's fault also?

Just my personal opinion but perhaps there are a few too many bored armchair critics during these crazy times.

[Expressflight]

Holland Aerolines flew ATR-42s after the Nomad and operated from 1985 to 1988 so I don't understand why you mention them in this context.

Methinks you protest too much about criticism of Ettyl - I wonder why. The deal to buy Stobart Air has now collapsed with Esken having today decided to terminate Stobart Air operations with immediate effect and they will be appointing Liquidators. Perhaps if the time wasted on the Ettyl proposition could have been avoided so might, just possibly, the Liquidation.

[Pat UK]

Expressflight,

You mean that Flybe might still be going had they not wasted time with Stobart and Virgin, how about BMI, had BMI not wasted time with Lufthansa might they still be going, the list of maybes is endless, I'm not defending, I'm just questioning why the knives are out for Ettyl as much as they are.

[TartinTon]

I suspect that the issue people have with Ettyl is that their owner has been the subject of some suspect dealings involving non-delivery of paid for items in the past. Plus the fact that they have failed to deliver on their promises regarding Stobart Air and Carlisle airport. This directly impacts peoples lives and livelihoods and understandably irritates reasonable people.

[Pat UK]

TartinTom,

I like such TV series as Dragons' Den and Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares and it is fact that by the time businesses and/or business people find their way on to such programmes asking for financial investment and/or help it is regularly a last gasp hope before they are forced to close the doors, in light of events of today this is neither the time nor place to say "I told you so" or similar, it is not what affllicted employees want to hear or read, but I doubt that Ettyl made any, quote, "promise" and whilst it would appear they had stumbled at the first hurdle do people here know with any certainty that they had thrown the towel in regarding buying Stobart or if indeed they just needed more time, more time that Stobart couldn't afford?

And the knives have been out on this thread for Ettyl since last year, not since last week or the week before but since last year, it can't have anything to do with Stobart.

[SWBKCB]

Promises, promises:Jason Scales, Chief Executive Officer of Ettyl Limited, said: "We are delighted to have signed agreements for these acquisitions. In the immediate term it will be very much business as usual in respect of both Stobart Air and Carlisle Lake District Airport’s operations and our deal ensures that the great teams within those businesses are retained. We will be making further announcements over the coming weeks and months regarding our plans. Ettyl sees significant opportunities for increased regional connectivity as economies recover from the impacts caused by the pandemic and return to stability across the UK and Ireland."

[Pat UK]

Jason Scales/Ettyl didn't use the word "promise" in that quote

[Albert Hall]

Pat, I’m beginning to wonder if you have had an alter ego on this site at some point in the past…

[Expressflight]

It's starting to look like it isn't it.

[Pat UK]

I've recently read this on the BBC:

"Stobart Air staff received an email from the company's managing director on Friday night informing them of the situation.

It outlined that Ettyl Limited, a company based in the Isle of Man, had agreed terms with Esken, the owners of Stobart Air, to buy the company.

However, according to the email, Esken discovered on Thursday evening Ettyl Limited was unable to acquire the company "on the original terms" or "obtain an alternative funding package within the required timescale"."

I've read and reread it a few times and as I interpret it Stobart made a last ditch attempt to Ettyl on Thursday at which time Ettyl didn't have the financing available leaving Stobart with no other option than to close the doors, no suggestion that Ettyl pulled out of the deal, moreso that Stobart ran out of time.

[BA318]

Well if someone doesn’t have the means nor ability to complete a deal then it ceases to be a deal. I could agree to buy Stobart but with no funding or ability, you wouldn’t argue that it was Stobart being unreasonable in pulling out.

[Expressflight]

PatUK

If you cannot provide the financing that was agreed as being necessary to complete your purchase of a business within the timescale you agreed in the sale contract, all you can do is ask the Seller for more time to do so. If, of course, you have no new possible financing options to present to the Seller at that date he is entitled to take alternative steps. I would think that is the likely scenario in this case so Ettyl had to withdraw their purchase interest by default.

[Albert Hall]

From what I have heard, I don’t think any offer from Ettyl to either Esken or Aer Lingus would have been entertained. Their credibility was blown several days earlier.

[Pat UK]

I guess it's kind of like buying a house, that the party you are buying from needs to complete by a particular date, you make your offer with the best of intentions, then there is a problem with the survey, perhaps the surveyor undervalues the property, so you apply to another moirtgage lender etc. but what with the delays the seller hasn't paid their mortgage for so long they have to hand the keys over to their mortgage lender, :mad: happens as they say but as per the Dragons' Den/Nightmares point I made earlier, businesses often leave it until it's too late before going looking for help/investment.

But this thread is in danger of drifting from Ettyl to Stobart.

[Buster the Bear]

How on earth did Ettyl convince the Board, accountants and senior Stobart management, that the airline and airport sale could actually be financed?

[Albert Hall]

The roots of that appear to sit in the Isle of Man and some documentary “irregularities” which are now the subject of a police (thus logically potentially criminal) investigation. I’d not expect to hear anything more of that until or unless something happens and it comes to court.

[cavokblues]

Perhaps Stobart were acutely aware of how bad their situation was and were desperate to believe it might have been genuine?

Seen it countless times, organisations in desperate plights sell out to charlatans and liars.

[OneBellEnd]

Looks from the out-turn of events that Stobart were caught between financial desperation and a lack of alternatives in pursuing the whole Ettyl idea.

[lfc84]

A man has appeared in court charged with three counts of fraud, relating to his attempt to purchase an airline.

Jason Gerard Scales, 28, of Douglas Road, Ballasalla, appeared in court this morning before Deputy High Bailiff James Brooks.

The first offence Mr Scales is charged with is that between April 7 2021 and June 5 2021 he made and intended to make false representation, namely that the Isle of Man Government was underwriting a loan to Ettyl to purchase Stobart Air, contrary to the Fraud Act.

The second charge is that, on or about May 7 2021, Mr Scales provided a letter, purportedly signed by the chief executive of the Department of Enterprise, intending for it to be used to commit, or assist in the commission of fraud.

The third and final charge is that he also provided a letter, namely a guarantee and indemnity document, purportedly signed by former chief secretary Will Greenhow, with the intention to commit, or assist in the commission of, fraud.

Mr Scales, who was represented by Jim Travers, entered no pleas to the charges and was bailed until Tuesday November 15.

The conditions of his bail are that he reside at his home address, that he does not leave the island without the court’s permission, that he surrender his passport and does not seek a replacement.

Bail was set at £2,500.

[runway30]

lfc84

Well you could see this one coming. You have to question the due diligence undertaken by Esken.
Repeat...............