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Ettyl

Old 9th Sep 2020, 12:20
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Ettyl

It looks like another 'virtual airline' has appeared on the Isle of Man.



Last edited by Jenny Tails; 10th Sep 2020 at 07:45.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 12:39
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They did try to run before covid hit with SUN-AIR to IOM

On Ettyl's Facebook
All flights on sale during the TT are operated on the ATR 72-600 by Eastern Airways
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 12:50
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--Edited-- Thanks fanrailuk for pointing out my mistake on Liverpool.

Hi All,

Ian from Ettyl here!

As allan1987 points out, we did try and step in with SUN-AIR on the IOM-LPL and IOM-MAN routes, however as also correctly pointed out COVID-19 put this endeavour to bed.

Our only current plan of operation is as rightly pointed out is TT 2021 with exclusively chartered aircraft with operators holding full UK/GB AOC. And as noted at this time that's the ATR 72-600 with our partners at Eastern Airways.

However, we are aware of the perception of virtual airlines on the Isle of Man (and the wider community) and are keen to avoid this tag going forward. Whilst we can't go on record with anything firm here and now, we are progressing with an opportunity to begin scheduled services, if / when this happens depends on a lot of things including the global situation clearing up. There are some fantastic under-served and non-served routes that we see a lot of potential in and in time we hope we can share more news with you all.

If we can ever answer any questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch with us directly.

Ian Richardson
Head of Commercial Operations
Ettyl

Last edited by Ian Richardson; 9th Sep 2020 at 14:54. Reason: Correct IATA code for Liverpool (LPL)
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 14:48
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Worrying that someone who is the supposed Head of Commercial Operations for a proposed "virtual airline" doesn't know the IATA code for Liverpool John Lennon
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 15:24
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Particularly during current times if all you have to worry about is an airport IATA code then you must be the luckiest guy alive!
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 15:31
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You can book flights for May/June 2021 .... Not Liverpool though
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 18:52
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Originally Posted by Ian Richardson View Post
However, we are aware of the perception of virtual airlines on the Isle of Man (and the wider community) and are keen to avoid this tag going forward.
The reputation of so-called virtual airlines is there for a reason.

What makes your virtual airline any different from what has gone before?

Does your operation have any form of oversight from CAA, ATOL, or ABTA? Excluding the obvious bit which is Eastern having an AOC.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 18:53
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have they secured MAN slots also, as the slot rules remain in place for S21
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 19:53
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Hopefully they'll be shut down before they get flying. The IOM needs to get a grip on these cowboy outfits before it leads to another Manx2. People lost their lives, I hope this doesn't have to be repeated before this practice is banned.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:12
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Isn't there a more fundamental issue here? This lot are selling tickets on an aircraft on which they have chartered but are not the operator, and don't have any form of visible ATOL licensing or authority to act on behalf of the AOC holder to act as a ticket provider. Right now, unless they have some suitable authority, it's breaking the law!
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:17
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I donít believe there is such a thing as an ATOL license in the Manx jurisdiction? Assuming correct, thereís little to stop them selling seats to local punters on the island.

...that said, since the whole set up appears totally geared to selling to origin markets NOT based on the island, the UK CAA might take a rather different view.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:18
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Flightrider

Illegal in the UK, allowed in the Isle Of Man. I once had a very good friend who operated for a company running services for an 'airline' that operated the same set up. He is unfortunately no longer with us due to this absurd technicality. I thought that the Isle of Man government had finally seen sense with the ending of the second iteration of Manx2, but unfortunately it seems to not be the case. I will be writing to my MP, and to the DfT to try and ensure that this 'airline' never takes to the skies. I hope anyone with any interest in aviation safety and oversight in the UK will do the same. This should NOT be allowed.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:35
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Also a great sign: Have a google of the MD- Jason Scales. This results comes up: https://sites.google.com/site/jasonscalesfraud/

A young MD, with no airline experience to speak of, who has a website dedicated to an alleged fraud. Come on IOM government, shut this down before it gets out of hand.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:38
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Are we judging a company and its people to be guilty before it has taken any substantive actions ?
Perhaps better for the people and Government of the IoM who desire to make their own laws independent of the UK to decide what regulation they desire ? Or maybe wait until the company is seen to have engaged in unsafe practices before regulators shut it down ?
The CAA can make rules, inspect companies for compliance and if a travel-centric company breaks those rules the CAA can clobber them.... but the company should at least be given the opportunity to comply with those rules before forbidding them from even starting
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:49
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planedrive

This is getting a little overhyped and out of hand now and the age is wrong too. You're making some very emotional and overhyped assertions.

Allow me to clarify a few points:
1) The article you reference pertains to a company I was contracted to assist, messy but no relevance to my personal circumstances. If it really matters to you, way back when I had my first business aged 12, nominated for the Daily Mail Enterprising Young Brits awards and have successfully established and exited multiple businesses of my own and helped others too. Ive had business failures too in that time, but i dont lead in to any investment without knowing that risk. Youre right, I've never been directly involved with aviation from an operational perspective but have hired the relevant people who do and working with strategic partners who safely operate in the sector to work on this with as a travel business.

2) This is not an airline. My primary business is in commercial property on the Island, we have set from the outset that it is a sole purpose endeavour for the Isle of Man TT. There is an assumption that this is a reincarnation of Manx2, it really isn't. We are partnering with reputable carriers, not far flung European ones (not that there's necessarily a problem with that, I guess) and we are not in any way trying to represent being an airline although the model is for seat only sales. It is actually for the good of the Island and its people. We have spent a number of weeks over the summer supporting and sponsoring local events and the Islands economy.

3) There are other separate conversations ongoing around securing relevant regulatory approval to service scheduled routes for the Isle of Man, but this will categorically not be done under a VA model and who knows if it will ever happen.

Aside from that - and with very open dialogue with relevant local authorities - the travel business will service niche opportunities and events on the Island.

Last edited by JSCL; 9th Sep 2020 at 21:02.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:54
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A website hastily edited from saying they have an ATR72-600 'in their fleet' to this:

"[sic] What aircraft will I be flyin on?
Ettyl is not an airline and therefore does not operate its' own fleet. Our currently flights on sale for the Isle of Man TT 2021 are operated on an ATR 72-600."

Question 1) Why were they trying to mislead customers in the first place only to change it when pointed out?
Question 2) Is there no spelling/grammar checker in their website host system?

Amateur mistakes like this and you reckon we should leave them to run an 'airline' and just keep our fingers crossed. I'd rather action was taken before something went wrong.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 21:06
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If they are selling tickets in the UK - and you can book for travel originating in the UK - you need an ATOL, an exemption from the need to hold an ATOL or an approved ticket seller agreement with the AOC holder. I can't see any sign of any of those and you have to have at least one of these three things before you sell tickets - not just by the time you fly. I don't know the equivalent regs in the IOM, but those are the requirements in the UK. The reply about the Daily Mail business awards is a good read, but what about the question that really matters - is this venture (in its current form and at this time) actually legal?
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 21:13
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Looking at Flights for Saturday - they need at least 2 Eastern ATR72
0700 BHD

0700 MAN

0920 GLA

0940 DUB

1200 CWL

1210 BHX

1610 MAN

1630 GLA

1850 DUB

1910 BHD
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 21:16
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Flight-rider

Jason Scales ‘MD’ has stated that if they continue with Scheduled services they won’t be a Virtual Airline.

I’m told that the IOM government were discussing the future of flights over the next few days, so we will have to await the outcome of that

Last edited by flyerguy; 10th Sep 2020 at 01:59.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 21:20
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Flightrider

The sale of a package in the UK requires ATOL and lets be honest here, we've all seen operators selling packages originating in the UK using Spanish (or other jurisdiction) bonding rather than the CAAs ATOL. Which is a ridiculous yet compliant practice.

In this instance, ATOL regulations have no standing in the Isle of Man but we have been in dialogue with both the IOM and UK CAA to ensure compliance with the 'Airline Ticketing Agent' rules in respect of the IOM TT 2021 and there are contracts in place with the operating carrier. So in response to your question, yes. There is no mark, no seal or badge to display in respect of this as you would with ATOL.

To clarify again: in its current form, this is not an airline, virtual airline or attempt to be anything in between. Its a travel business focussed on crearing much needed lower cost capacity for a specific event. The UK - unlike the US - does not have separate governance of 'public charters'. If - big if - we look to do anything more including our current review of undertaking scheduled services, then we will only do this in a fully regulated manner than a half botched bandaid airline. But that's still early days.
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