JP233 release parameters and tornado wing sweep

[NIREP reader]

Hi all. I’m a model maker and I am researching the next project. Could somebody please tell me what the release parameters are for the JP233 and what sweep angle the wings would have been at the time of release, for Tornados in GW1.

Any help would be appreciated.

Steve.

[sandiego89]

I do not know the exact parameters, but I would suspect very fast and very low, and wings swept fully aft for your model. RAF doctrine at the time, especially the first part of GW1, was vey much fast and low.

I believe some of the JP233 release trial photos and videos you get on an internet search show trials under more sedate conditions.

This article has a bit about the doctrine and mindset of the time, and mentions JP233 profiles of very low level, scroll down to execution, phase.one.

https://medium.com/raf-caps/operation-granby-and-the-dawn-of-precision-in-the-royal-air-force-a-personal-perspective-52fa7fb8b26e

[salad-dodger]

To be honest, whatever the wing sweep should be for JP233, you know it's only going to 'look right' with the wings fully swept!

[MG]

450-550kts, minimum of 180’ agl, so 200’ when using TFR. You could use 45 wing but 67 is probably better for the top end.

[spitfirek5054]

I do not know the parameters,although I built a lot of JP233, in 5 years at ML Aviation in Slough.

[Slow Biker]

I do not know the parameters,although I built a lot of JP233, in 5 years at ML Aviation in Slough.

And I cleared up a lot of dud SG-357 second stages at West Freugh after surveillance drops.

[NIREP reader]

Thanks everyone.

[threeputt]

As we flew with the big underwing tanks on, the wing sweep was limited to 63deg.
3P :ok:

[NIREP reader]

Thanks again everyone for chipping in. Were the large fuel tanks carried from the start of operations then?.

Steve.

[Just This Once...]

The fuel fit was dependent on mission. By the book, the big tanks were not cleared for Auto-TF or even supersonic... but they did both. Eight-bomb fit with big tanks put you at or above (the then) heavy fit limits, but fit was reduced to 5 or 4 x 1000lbs bombs for later missions.
Recce jets predominantly flew in 3 or 4 tank fit throughout and the ALARM missions brought in the weird stick-a-tank-where-you-like fits.
The move to medium level (save for the recce jets) changed things around again, with big tanks making a return & also providing some much-needed lift when fighting thunderstorms. It also brought in the need to jettison tanks during spirited medium-level SAM evasion and the subsequent burn-down of tank stocks before the logistics caught up again.

[MG]

The big tanks were not cleared for Auto-TF or even supersonic... but they did both Yes, we certainly achieved both of those after egressing the target on the first night.

[twentytoofifty]

we released in 45 wing the first two nights of GW1 as we had to manually fly through AAA at low level; 63 wing wouldn't have been a great idea for doing that. The jet with tweeked engines had no problem maintaining speeds well in excess of what we were lead to believe it could do during the Cold War scenario. However, 8 bomb fit the next night was like flying with the airbrakes out.!

[Green Flash]

JTO, MG, 2250 et al, apologies for the thread drift but was the AAA aimed or did they just hose the sky and hope you would fly through it?

[twentytoofifty]

Hi Green Flash... answer b, not aimed but set to what felt like "constant hose" with spin.! so very unpredictable....

[MG]

Green Flash, I can’t honestly say as it was nearly 30 years ago and I was heads-in working the radar and monitoring the RHWR so deliberately not scaring myself with the reality of it all.

[Green Flash]

Thanks 2250 and MG, that sounds like a good idea!

[John Nichol]

Funny old world. Just writing about all this at the moment.
Morning one (daylight) I missed a bit on the final run in. But I thought this from a couple of folk who I interviewed might help?
"I thought the barrage would diminish as time went on but it just stayed the same, an intense firework display of white and red interweaving lines forming an impenetrable wall. It seemed like a solid mass."
"It was like driving through snow flurries in your car. The flakes come rushing towards you and, if you focus on one, at the last second it sweeps past the windscreen. But these exploding balls of bright light were not snowflakes!’

[NIREP reader]

Again thanks everyone for your comments. The devil is in the detail and sometimes a photo doesn’t cut it. I’m re-reading “Tornado GR1 an Operational History” which is painting a picture and I’m looking at purchasing “Thunder & Lightning’s”.

Immediately apparent is the different colour of the cabs from different bases. Some are distinctly pink whilst others are sand all day long. Taking into account the brighter light of the theatre, they’ve got lighter apart from the paint patches, although considerably a lot dirtier.

[typerated]

I spent a lot of time at Spadeadam during the lead up to the war and remember a lot of the work the Tornado force did.
Certainly some memorable flying.

Just interested how useful you found it in preparing for the real mission? A lot of the Smokey Sams and AAA fired during that period- Never thought the Triple AAA fireworks were realistic in the slightest - I wonder if they still use them?

John, Don't know if you can remember that far back but there was a Mallet Blow the week Iraq invaded Kuwait. The 15 Sqn anniversary jet (Red Tail) rocked up every twice a day in a 4 ship and flew more and more eye water passes as the week went on.
Sporty enough to be well remembered thirty years later - I don't know but suspect it would have been the same jet that had a slight kiss with the ground that week that gets a mention in your boss's book.

[Tashengurt]

Again thanks everyone for your comments. The devil is in the detail and sometimes a photo doesn’t cut it. I’m re-reading “Tornado GR1 an Operational History” which is painting a picture and I’m looking at purchasing “Thunder & Lightning’s”.

Immediately apparent is the different colour of the cabs from different bases. Some are distinctly pink whilst others are sand all day long. Taking into account the brighter light of the theatre, they’ve got lighter apart from the paint patches, although considerably a lot dirtier.

'Thunder & Lightning' is a bit of a coffee table job. It's got some good stuff in it ( including a very distant shot of me!) but I doubt it'll give you the detail you're after.
Must be getting rare now?

[NIREP reader]

'Thunder & Lightning' is a bit of a coffee table job. It's got some good stuff in it ( including a very distant shot of me!) but I doubt it'll give you the detail you're after.
Must be getting rare now?

They can be had for pennies now I’m sorry to say.