View Full Version : UAE-Israel Flights
Joker11
23rd Aug 2020, 13:45
Rumours are they going to happen. So via Saudi?
And will nationals from certain countries refuse to operate these flights due to their political believes?
fatbus
23rd Aug 2020, 14:50
They use to freak out doing the SID out AMM!
Have not read the details but would over flight have been the main advantage?
Air India presently operate over Saudi into TLV. Or at least they did pre-Covid.
Joker11
23rd Aug 2020, 16:08
fatbus
Why? Close to Israeli air space?
fatbus
23rd Aug 2020, 19:38
Yes, but the turn was at 5 nm and the border at@30 nm. I would tell "mate, get over it , just fly the plane "
Emma Royds
23rd Aug 2020, 22:13
It's a shame it is not far enough for a night stop. TLV is great fun and especially in the summer.
krismiler
23rd Aug 2020, 22:45
I could foresee special crewing requirements for flights to Israel, flight and cabin crew of certain nationalities may prefer not to operate on this route, and the Israelis may prefer not to have them. There is always the possibility of an AOG with the crew needing to spend a day or two in the country, and service with a smile might be difficult for some CC when serving kosher food to ultra Orthodox Jews.
This is not unprecedented as American expat Pilots working for Vietnam Airlines weren’t allowed to operate flights to North Korea.
Emma Royds
23rd Aug 2020, 22:53
TBL Warrior
Also known as a layover. :E
The Israelis actually did away with stamping passports years ago. You now just get a credit card sized piece of paper which is your entry visa.
fatbus
23rd Aug 2020, 22:56
American's going to Iran use to be restricted
aeropix
26th Aug 2020, 13:39
Since we cannot transit Damamscus, imagine the cost savings and time saved from Dubai - Larnaca, Italy, France, and the rest of southern Europe. It will be a heck of a job with the radio work as I'm sure Tel Aviv and Jeddah will not coordinate, but I'm guessing this is the main driver of this normalization. No flights to Israel, but the overflights will save 30 minutes to 1 hour on these kinds of sectors.
777boyo
27th Aug 2020, 04:37
Hmmmm.............I'm not sure that I'd get my hopes up just yet. Geographically its more likely that Saudi ATC would coordinate with Jordanian ATC, as they have done for years. And as the Jordanians appear to have more cordial relations with Israel, onward coordination with Tel Aviv would I suspect rely on Amman. Same in the opposite direction. I'm open to correction on that, but I don't think the radio work would be any more complex than the old "Confusion Corner" leaving Syrian airspace and entering Nicosia FIR and vice versa.
And looking at a chart, I don't think the time savings would exceed about 15 mins. Still a significant saving once schedules return to previous levels though.
RoyHudd
29th Aug 2020, 16:17
LY971 operating tomorrow. TLV-DXB. El Al B787.
Emma Royds
29th Aug 2020, 18:33
It looks like it will be going to the capital on Monday. More info here:
Times of Israel - El Al plane listed for historic Israel-UAE trip with dialing code flight numbers (https://www.timesofisrael.com/el-al-plane-formally-listed-for-1st-israel-uae-commercial-passenger-flights/)
krismiler
29th Aug 2020, 22:38
Fantastic progress for the region, hopefully other countries will see the benefits and follow suit. The cost savings from overflights alone would be immense, let alone the economic benefits from trade.
The best way to ensure peace is to have different countries economies so interdependent on trade and investment that going to war with each other is impossible, and disputes have to be resolved diplomatically.
lucille
29th Aug 2020, 22:57
777boyo
There is a new “pragmatic” regime in KSA. I wouldn’t be surprised if cordial relations were suddenly discovered.
Years ago there used t be an Israeli airline transit the Red Sea along the Egypt/ KSA FIR boundary on its way to and from African destinations. Memory fails me as to which airline it was.
Sam Ting Wong
30th Aug 2020, 00:55
Halal or Kosher instead of Chicken or Beef :-)
krismiler
31st Aug 2020, 00:24
Kosher has stricter standards such as no mixing of meat and dairy, but does allow alcohol. Muslims could eat kosher food as long as a few minor points were addressed, so possibly a simple dual rated menu could be produced which meets whichever requirements are more restrictive.
Ordering kosher is often a good option on a flight as your meal gets served first. Most institutions are unable to obtain kosher certification for their kitchens and have to order from outside suppliers. A Jew serving time in a British prison is entitled to food which meets religious requirements and will eat far better than those with no special dietary needs.
FatPilot
31st Aug 2020, 02:52
It looks like it will be going to the capital on Monday. More info here:
Times of Israel - El Al plane listed for historic Israel-UAE trip with dialing code flight numbers (https://www.timesofisrael.com/el-al-plane-formally-listed-for-1st-israel-uae-commercial-passenger-flights/)
Well done, President Trump. Truly the statesman of our times!
Fuel-Off
31st Aug 2020, 07:41
BBC reporting that it will be a B739, and will fly through Saudi airspace.
Pictures show some pomp and pageantry with the Boeing painted with Peace written in English, Arabic and Hebrew decals. Red carpet at Ben Gurion airport with US and Israeli flags, but notably no UAE flags... 🤔
Joker11
31st Aug 2020, 09:31
Boeing B737-900. Flying over Saudi air space.
Joker11
31st Aug 2020, 09:37
No UAE flags are this flight is not carrying any Emirati officals. Only U.S and Israeli officals.
White Knight
31st Aug 2020, 19:56
Flying the UAE, US and Israeli flag from the Captain's sliding window after landing in Abu Dhabi earlier. You can find the pic in Gulf News...
RoyHudd
31st Aug 2020, 22:14
Unlikely to be carrying Emiratis from Israel. Much more likely to be carrying them in the other direction. Very obvious really.
Pardon me, but what was the purpose of your comment, Fuel-Off? Was it to point out the clear bias of the BBC? (I think most of us know about that already, but thank you anyway)
metro301
31st Aug 2020, 23:18
It is also his screen name....
Fuel-Off
1st Sep 2020, 04:03
Not sure how my observation of the ommission of the UAE flag at Ben Gurion airport has anything to do with your perceived bias of the BBC. They only televised what was on display. I was pointing out that given a flight from Tel Aviv to Abu Dhabi and all the symbology that it entails, one would at least represent the flags of all the countries involved at the departure. No malice intended, just purely an observation.
Me thinks you're looking for scandal when there isn't one to begin with.
Return flight now airborne as LY972 going over Saudi Arabia again
Joker11
2nd Sep 2020, 11:22
Saudi has given permission for air space use by UAE-Israel bound flights and EL AL to use its air space.
Joker11
21st Mar 2022, 18:11
Any issues with Middle Eastern staff not wanting to operate flights into TLV? Both in the front and the back? Even in the ops departments.
Fuel-Off
22nd Mar 2022, 09:17
I think you're trying to look for a scandal which really isn't there. Turkish pilots fly into Greece and Cyprus, Greeks and Cypriots fly into Turkey (and go through their airspaces). While at my airline, Pakistani crew aren't allowed to operate into India (mostly due to potential AOG issues) and vice versa, they're allowed to transit the airspace of their 'adversary' with no issue. Taiwanese crew are allowed to operate into Mainland China and again, vice versa. As far as I'm aware, Ukrainian crew are still operating into Russia.
Unless restrictions based on crews' nationalities are imposed by the state, airlines generally just crew as required. As for the individual's own conviction in not participating in such geopolitically sensitive flights, that's their prerogative. But given how UAE airlines have a VERY dim view on sickness, calling sick for those specific flights would be done at their own peril.
Fuel-Off :ok: