Arbitrary Dismissal

[Fired600]

A first post for obvious reasons.......

Have any of the newly redundant pilots looked at the UAE Labour Law 122 with regard to Arbitrary Dismissal? As I understand since we are on unlimited contracts, and that the redundancy is NOT due to performance issues we have a claim for up to 3 months wages in the labour courts, this is in addition to the 3 months notice. This has been backed up by a chat to a locals based solicitor.
Please PM if you wish and we can keep this anonymous for obvious reasons

[Fired600]

I have a problem with replying to messages due to being a ‘first time poster’ I will get back to those of you who reply via PM shortly when I have access to send PMs in return.

[A320skoda]

Why don’t you guys get it. Emirates Airlines is not required to follow UAE labor laws. This is in writing from HR. Sorry to burst your bubble but anyone that tells you any different is just trying to take your money.

[Fired600]

Sorry I must have missed that one. Please show me where Emirates says it can ignore the labour laws?

[5star]

well I did read the labor law a week back, but I read it differently.... But am obviously not a lawyer...
Could a case like this be handled as class action?
3 months is still 3 months.....and there is no way one of the 600 will ever get a job back...so nothing to loose for many...
But then again they have a legal system only working....in their own favour....
this one is a hard one i guess....

[Joker11]

I hate playing devils advocate here, but EK does everything above board. So what ever is presented to you will be in strict adherence to the law.

Good luck to all of you.

[fatbus]

Unfortunately true!

[DuneMentat]

From someone who's been in the situation before, paying the 3 months notice period is considered complying with that particular section of the law anyway so dreaming of something more will unfortunately only ever be a dream.

[SOPS]

Do not waste your money. EK is the government, they can make up rules as they please. If you think you are protected under so called UAE labour laws.. i have a couple of bridges to sell you.

[Fired600]

The 3 months notice isn’t complying with the law. That was something I checked into and it is a different thing.

[VThokie2]

Fired600

Guess you weren’t at EK when they were allocating less than 30 days leave because they couldn’t find enough pilots willing to sell their souls to join the ranks... their response was that they were a semi governmental agency and hence UAE labor law does not apply!

[WB1900]

interessting discussion here

first because the company says that they have to comply with the law is effectively only two things
firsy they want to create fear so you don’t walk into a lawyers office
second just because they say so - they are not correct
the problem hear is that nobody ever really tried it And if so we don’t no the result except via rumors. that’s all because everybody is fearing the consequences
and yes the chances to get a positiv result in Dubai are minimal as you rely on a local judge - Wasta
fighting for the terms of your contract because you want your vacation while also wanting to keep the job is different from being made redundant and ultimate fighting for the live line and future.
i have seen in one of the handed out documents around the eos that ek refers to the Labour law and the correctness of their doing accordingly
EK follows the Labour law widely but the also break it to their wish when They know you can’t do much without risking your job - if you go to court the excuse to dismiss you will be breaking with the confidentiality rules
for eg their is a local lawyer who sent an email that he is not excepting cases against EY even thou it would Be 1000+ clients -guess why
bottom line going into that fight for 3 month salary is not worth the fight - you need to go way bigger than that - these are only supporting arguments but not a reason for a court case
if you want to achieve something you need to proof a gross misconduct and abuse of your contract relation
this is difficult as EK is always on the boarder of the law

[Fired600]

I think the fear factor is a big thing here. But as we have been told there is no ‘fear’. The fear is now that you are taking on Emirates, they are still not above the law and ultimately I would happen that a judge would base his decisions on the law as opposed to Wasta. Ultimately what is there to loose? We are dreaming if we think they will ever take anyone back.

There is no class action in the UAE and case law also doesn’t exist. However hundreds of pilots taking cases to court would not be good publicity for the company. The 3 months notice is not the same as the up to 3 months compensation for arbitrary dismissal. 3 months might not seem much but when you have no job prospects and are faced with moving back to your home land and being out of work for possibly years, it makes a difference.

[here_we_go_again]

I think you might need a better lawyer. I'd suggest case law in the UAE has settled that redundancy is a genuine reason for termination and therefore falls under Article 117 and is accordingly NOT arbitrary. Article 122 then does not apply.

[Easy Peasy]

Do you not think the judge hearing the case is easily influenced in the UAE? You have no case. Don’t waste your time. Go home, look for a job.

[Fired600]

here_we_go_again

Well you may need to check your details since there is no case law in the UAE. Redundancy may well be a reason but if it is not due to performance issues it is classed as arbitary.

[DXB_Flyer]

Directly from the Labor Law.

Article 117
1. Either the employer or the worker may terminate an indefinite term contract for a valid reason at any time following its conclusion, by giving the other party a notice in writing at least 30 days prior to termination.

I am pretty sure that redundancy is a valid reason so Article 117 applies and the termination is therefore not arbitrary.

[Fired600]

Also direct from the Labour Law.

Article 122
A workers service shall be deemed to be arbitrarily terminated by his employer if the reason for termination is irrelevant to the work.

It doesn’t matter if it is a valid reason, it is not relative to the work and is thus arbitrary. You can’t pick which article you wish to apply.

I am amazed how many of the ‘pilots’ are negative about fighting for their rights. If it is indeed pilots being negative......

[Emma Royds]

Playing devils advocate here Fired600 but have you considered the situation of successfully pursuing it through legal channels but the company drags its feet in settling any money owed and eventually doesn’t pay, knowing your remaining time in the UAE is limited?

I have already seen a post on social media of an employee of a very large property developer in Dubai who went to court to be awarded his contractual entitlements, after being made redundant. He won but has not received a dirham and the clock is ticking until his visa is cancelled and he has to leave the country. I suspect there will be a sizeable legal bill to settle before departure too!

[Busbitch]

It's sad hearing all these terminated staff talking about their "rights", what they are "entitled to" & talking legal action against EK. You are in la la land, Don't you think they thought about this ? they are not phased one bit, they don't care about their terminated staff any more than they care about a dead dog on the road. Sue them, how? where? in what courtroom would that happen?, you may as well sue the sun for making it hot in Dubai, these guys do what ever they want with the knowledge that a fired expat is utterly powerless. You are not even allowed to stay in the county beyond 90 days, how you going to sue them?. Sell your stuff, leave. End of story. I think it's beyond disgraceful but taking them on & winning is indulging in absolute fantasy. Let this whole shambolic episode be a cautionary tale for every single expat in the future. Those who stay will do so, looking over their shoulder the whole time in the future.

[Matt101]

Some have quite successfully sued in the past. The company even keeps your visa alive whilst you do so. In these times thought I fear it is unlikely.

[ChocksOn]

I know someone who managed to get their pound of flesh from both flag carriers in the same ME country....but not while in the ME! :D:ok:
And no, I cannot give you the details...just that they are more prone to settle to avoid media exposure and damage to the brand.

[kimono1950]

Busbitch

Why you do not suit EK in your own country ? These morons are powerless in a foreign court of law !

[pilotguy1222]

You are definitely fresh off the plane if that is what you think.

I need more than one hand to count the lawsuits I know friends are ramping up with lawyers outside the UAE.
It has been mentioned 2x, but plenty have successfully sued EK.

Hell, a law firm in Oz has contacted pilots to see if they are interested in a class action lawsuit. Lawyers can smell money from the moon.

[Fired600]

The brand is pretty much all they have of value at the moment, that needs protection from the fierce light of public scrutiny at all costs. You have a year to take it to the courts.

[EchoKilla]

which firm?

[Busbitch]

Busbitch

Why you do not suit EK in your own country ? These morons are powerless in a foreign court of law !

Because my country (Australia) has absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever in the UAE, nor does any other country for that matter. There is also no "Fair Work Australia" or "Ombudsmen", legal aid, state funded legal defence. The cornerstone of fair & just judicial system is a court of your peers overseen by a duly appointed Magistrate. A mere illusion in Dubai or anywhere else in the UAE for that matter as the same people who oversee the "legal" system are the small group of extremely well funded, opaque & blatantly corrupt UAE nationals who fund & manage the worlds most secretive, market manipulating city & airline group. I hope the terminated staff receive what they are entitled to, I really do but I doubt it will go down that way. There is a lesson in all of this for those dazzled by the bright lights & hollow promises of the Middle East (and the Far East for that matter) in the future.