How good is Alliance!!!!

[Zhoottoo]

Quite possibly the only profitable airline in the world during calendar year 2020????

[Double_Clutch]

Riiiight.....
The latest ASX announcement was made on the 20th May!
cool, old news

[B772]

Profit before tax of $1M per aircraft. A great result. Shares are up 165% the last 9 weeks. The best performing airline in the world.

[Lookleft]

Is that why the ACCC has finally decided to look into the 20% stake that QF holds. Talk about the turtle of bureaucracy acting with lightening speed.

[VH DSJ]

Profit before tax of $1M per aircraft. A great result. Shares are up 165% the last 9 weeks. The best performing airline in the world.

A good result in this climate, but then again, a fair percentage of their flying is FIFO charter work unaffected by the current state and international border closures. I'm sure other FIFO operators also made some decent money these last few months.

[neville_nobody]

The shutdown would have benefitted them enormously. Everyone is looking at charter options to move people around. I read that the NRL has gone to a US style pro sport arrangement with teams flying in and out on charters the same day which is only good news for Alliance.

[lc_461]

The shutdown would have benefitted them enormously. Everyone is looking at charter options to move people around. I read that the NRL has gone to a US style pro sport arrangement with teams flying in and out on charters the same day which is only good news for Alliance.

Yes I believe this was presented to the QLD Premier at least as a part of their 'COVIDSAFE' plan to get approval to cross state lines...

[B772]

All Alliance staff except for senior management have received $1,000 worth of company shares as a bonus.

[VH DSJ]

Alliance to buy 20 more aircraft. Will they go with the E190 or CRJ900?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/alliance-eyes-bigger-fleet-with-1219m-raising/news-story/07a28408b65379d5d0dad29ec87727df



Brisbane-based airline Alliance Aviation has announced plans to raise more than $120m to buy up to 20 more aircraft as demand for fly-in, fly-out services continues to grow.

The airline currently operates an all-Fokker fleet of 50 aircraft but managing director Scot McMillan said with no good F100s left in the market, the company was interested in buying Embraer E190s and Bombardier CRJ900s.

With the foreign exchange rate improving, and second-hand aircraft at a surplus, Mr McMillan was confident of getting a good deal.

[VH DSJ]

It's confirmed on the ASX website. Alliance to get 14 E190 Ejets with options for a further 5 including a flight simulator. Deliveries to begin from September 2020 progressively over 8 months. There won't be any shortage of suitably qualified applicants with plenty of ex Virgin Ejet drivers currently in limbo.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200803/pdf/44l43stlf2s0gc.pdf

[Roj approved]

It's confirmed on the ASX website. Alliance to get 14 E190 Ejets with options for a further 5 including a flight simulator.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200803/pdf/44l43stlf2s0gc.pdf

A good choice of aircraft, $5.5million each, super cheap deal. I guess lots of spare airframes sitting around in the US and the rest of the world. Can be upgraded to the -e2 in the future with little or no training cost.

As DSJ says, lots of VA ex E-Jet rated pilots around, even some Air North guys and girls might be interested. Good luck to Alliance, they have proved time and time again that they make smart decisions, which isn't so common in Australian Aviation.

[Icarus2001]

Well done. Great timing. The option to purchase a simulator is useful, non in our region adds significant cost and down time for crews.

[galdian]

Be interesting - when/if Alliance advertise for Flight Deck crew - whether an existing type rating will be a requirement...or maybe just preferred.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Just a thought, given that Qantas is a stakeholder in Alliance there could be opportunities for stood down QF group pilots to take LWOP to be negotiated between the two entities. Obviously Virgin pilots make more sense if they have E190 time, but not having time on type didnt stop LWOP to Jetstar on the A320 or Emirates LWOP in the early 2010s.

[havick]

A good choice of aircraft, $5.5million each, super cheap deal. I guess lots of spare airframes sitting around in the US and the rest of the world. Can be upgraded to the -e2 in the future with little or no training cost.

As DSJ says, lots of VA ex E-Jet rated pilots around, even some Air North guys and girls might be interested. Good luck to Alliance, they have proved time and time again that they make smart decisions, which isn't so common in Australian Aviation.

Or they’ll simply type their existing crews and get upto speed with a small amount of initial cadre guys.

[Icarus2001]

Or they’ll simply type their existing crews and get upto speed with a small amount of initial cadre guys. That is also possible of course. However that doubles the training cost, move a F100 to the E190 and now you have to train an E190 pilot and a F100 pilot to replace them. The ASX release said that the F100 remains "core" and "in service for many years to come". The Embraer is the "growth" machine.

[VH DSJ]

That is also possible of course. However that doubles the training cost, move a F100 to the E190 and now you have to train an E190 pilot and a F100 pilot to replace them. The ASX release said that the F100 remains "core" and "in service for many years to come". The Embraer is the "growth" machine.

Furthermore, would their simulator be ready immediately to start type endorsing pilots on it? If not, then they would have to seek Ejet type rating courses overseas and with the restrictions on travel and quarantining required in some countries, that won't be easy in the current climate. It would be more efficient and quicker to re-qualify already type rated pilots than have pilots transition across form the F100, IMHO. This article suggests that their first E190 revenue flight will be in February 2021, so that would suggest a pretty fast lead up time for the E190 to be operational.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/alliance-pounces-on-planes-deal-buying-14-embraer-jets/news-story/8ac4b56b181575f139c0453bf8806b17

[havick]

Furthermore, would their simulator be ready immediately to start type endorsing pilots on it? If not, then they would have to seek Ejet type rating courses overseas and with the restrictions on travel and quarantining required in some countries, that won't be easy in the current climate. It would be more efficient and quicker to re-qualify already type rated pilots than have pilots transition across form the F100, IMHO. This article suggests that their first E190 revenue flight will be in February 2021, so that would suggest a pretty fast lead up time for the E190 to be operational.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/alliance-pounces-on-planes-deal-buying-14-embraer-jets/news-story/8ac4b56b181575f139c0453bf8806b17

All true, but who’s to say they haven’t already typed a bunch of pilots?

[Ken Borough]

Is the fire sale purchase of the Jungle Jets straight from Qantas play book purchase of B737s after 9-11 and the B717s?

[ebt]

Just a thought, given that Qantas is a stakeholder in Alliance there could be opportunities for stood down QF group pilots to take LWOP to be negotiated between the two entities. Obviously Virgin pilots make more sense if they have E190 time, but not having time on type didnt stop LWOP to Jetstar on the A320 or Emirates LWOP in the early 2010s.

Unlikely - QQ's management got blindsided when QF bought in, and I would say that there is a decent chance that the ACCC will force them to sell once their investigation is concluded.

[novicef]

Unfortunately I lost my job too. However I do know from a reliable source that there are a number of ex Alliance F100 pilots still employed in HK the ME and parts of Asia who would return given the opportunity, which could replace those pilots moving from the F100 to the E190. Most of those are currently flying Airbus, so getting current again shouldn't require to much retraining in the sim.

[geeup]

Does Alliance stick to seniority or do they also accept DEC?

[Arthur D]

A good choice of aircraft, $5.5million each, super cheap deal. I guess lots of spare airframes sitting around in the US and the rest of the world. Can be upgraded to the -e2 in the future with little or no training cost.

As DSJ says, lots of VA ex E-Jet rated pilots around, even some Air North guys and girls might be interested. Good luck to Alliance, they have proved time and time again that they make smart decisions, which isn't so common in Australian Aviation.

A lot of loyal Alliance pilots deserving of a promotion too, or did you forget them Roj?
Fishing for a job maybe?

[galdian]

Honest Q:

If the F100's going to remain core to the fleet for the immediate future would the Ejet be a promotion or demotion or "slightly shinier jet syndrome but pretty much same same"??

Cheers

[Roj approved]

A lot of loyal Alliance pilots deserving of a promotion too, or did you forget them Roj?
Fishing for a job maybe?

Hi Arthur D,
I didn’t really think it through when I wrote my post, I am by no means saying that the current guys and girls at Alliance don’t deserve promotion, sorry for the misunderstanding. I wish everyone all the best, you’ll enjoy the EJet.

[C152R]

[QUOTE=VH DSJ;10852027]Furthermore, would their simulator be ready immediately to start type endorsing pilots on it? If not, then they would have to seek Ejet type rating courses overseas and with the restrictions on travel and quarantining required in some countries, that won't be easy in the current climate. It would be more efficient and quicker to re-qualify already type rated pilots than have pilots transition across form the F100, IMHO. This article suggests that their first E190 revenue flight will be in February 2021, so that would suggest a pretty fast lead up time for the E190 to be operational.
DSJ. The pilots now applying to Alliance are presumably unemployed and were at the bottom of the Virgin seniority list. I would suggest that once they have the opportunity to move on to a bigger, shiner jet with an increase in salary they would leave, costing Alliance money that they would have spent renewing their E190 rating and then having to replace them when they leave with a another pilot and a complete conversion.
Where as if they employed experienced ex Alliance pilots who are a known quantity who are currently employed all be it with a reduction of their present salary but are still employed AND are willing to return I would have thought would be a better bet. Note some of these pilots were Check and Training on F50 and F100s.
Further nearly all the pilots who did leave have obtained worth while endorsements and international experience, so there is no longer a yearning for something else.....been there and done that. No reason for further adventure.
Alliance also knows their current positions, employers and their private email contacts. Further their current CP has been involved in all their upgrades and recurrent training. No need to sift through applications.

[TimmyTee]

Looks like C152R has it all sorted!

[Icarus2001]

Well if it is fourteen aircraft, say ten to begin with, at two crews an airframe that is forty pilots. How many ex Alliance pilots are "out there" waiting to return?

[C152R]

What must be remembered when these pilots left, was that the mining industry was winding down and they feared loss of employment. At the time just having F100 experience would have made it difficult in obtaining another position when competing with other qualified pilots. This resulted in them applying for other positions where they hoped they could obtain endorsements on modern equipment.
It appears they have been quite successful. From what I can gather they have been able to obtain endorsements on the B777,787,767,A330 and A320. and achieve several years of international experience.
Now, to get to your question. I can't give you an exact number but it would not be to difficult to obtain who wishes to come back, after all they have achieved their objectives. I'm sure the company through the pilot group has ways of contacting them. There are some in the Middle East, HK and the Far East. Try Linkedin you will find a few.

[swh]

Quite possibly the only profitable airline in the world during calendar year 2020????

Pennies in the dollar compared to Cargolux, FedUps, Atlas

Cargolux just paid a bonus

[Boe787]

Probably the only profitable airline, that carries passengers?

[Falling Leaf]

Why don't we just wait and see what Alliance will actually do...

[Buster Hyman]

Cargolux just paid a bonus
https://youtu.be/_8MV_GBCXM4

[PPRuNeUser0198]

This $115m for this number of aircraft does not seem right. The list price is USD$50m per aircraft. There is no way they are offering them for $5m each. Impossible. There has to be more to this.

[onehitwonder]

This $115m for this number of aircraft does not seem right. The list price is USD$50m per aircraft. There is no way they are offering them for $5m each. Impossible. There has to be more to this.

its quite correct - perhaps youve been out of the game, particurly in the most recent of times

I know of another carrier who has 30+ E190 who are trying to flog them off as well and currently talking to another establish embraer operating about taking 4

[Roj approved]

Why don't we just wait and see what Alliance will actually do...

😂😂😂😂😂 you know that’ll never happen Leafy

[Turnleft080]

Having read all the above and now considering the Virgin announcement by the end of the day if not tomorrow
bleedin the obvious their will be at least 500 applications on Alliance's doorstep all with E170/190 time.

[Servo]

Having read all the above and now considering the Virgin announcement by the end of the day if not tomorrow
bleedin the obvious their will be at least 500 applications on Alliance's doorstep all with E170/190 time.
I hope that some of them can get a job with Alliance as well. Some awesome people, great pilots, checkies and engineers. I hope the Alliance guys and girls get promotions etc. but giving jobs to those now out of work with lots of experience on type would be awesome in this current environment. It would be in everyone's interest at Alliance.

[Arthur D]

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Yesterday most here couldn’t give a rats ar$e about Alliance Aviation, just another trashy wannabe was the phrase I once heard used to describe them. Some of you couldn’t wait to get out.

Now, you covet their pilots jobs and promotions.

To paraphrase Matthew 5.5..in the case of aviation the meek really have inherited the earth.

[onehitwonder]

Whats a bet youll see QQ operating VA's regional services in time to come. Cheaper cost base outsourcing....

[SpyderPig]

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Yesterday most here couldn’t give a rats ar$e about Alliance Aviation, just another trashy wannabe was the phrase I once heard used to describe them. Some of you couldn’t wait to get out.

Now, you covet their pilots jobs and promotions.

To paraphrase Matthew 5.5..in the case of aviation the meek really have inherited the earth.

At a time of when solidarity for our people is required the most, that’s possibly the worst thing I’ve ever read.

[geeup]

Arthur D and the moment any of the majors hired again the same people would be out the Alliance door faster then shyt off a chrome shovel.

[C152R]

Geeup. Agree 100% with your observation. I'm sure Alliance management are well aware of that possibility. Perhaps they should go with the ex Alliance guys who are overseas that they know. They are also now better qualified, experienced and having experienced the so called greener pasture will stay.

[Derfred]

It would be great if we could all be nice to each other for a change.

I know many pilots are naturally competitive, but COVID has affected us all. Some terribly, some not so much, but we are all affected.

It’s awesome that Alliance have ordered new aircraft.

It’s even more awesome that they will be employing pilots... there are many pilots, with families to feed and mortgages to be paid, out of work, and with a bleak future.

I think pilot pissing contests are a bit out of order at the moment. Maybe let us wait until the world order has resumed and then we can re-commence our back-stabbing normality... :oh:

[smiling monkey]

Geeup. Agree 100% with your observation. I'm sure Alliance management are well aware of that possibility. Perhaps they should go with the ex Alliance guys who are overseas that they know. They are also now better qualified, experienced and having experienced the so called greener pasture will stay.

It will be interesting to see how Alliance management will crew the E190s. Will their management spend the money on type rating existing F100 crews, or go the cheaper option and hire already type rated and experienced crews, say from VA? The F100 and E190 have about the same MTOW and carry around 100 passengers so I'd imagine the pay would be similar to crew either types.

[novicef]

smiling monkey. It's not so much about the salary but flying a more modern aircraft. After all, the current pilot group have through their knowledge of the F100 and loyalty to the company have kept the operation on track. It's time they were rewarded.

[neville_nobody]

After all, the current pilot group have through their knowledge of the F100 and loyalty to the company have kept the operation on track. It's time they were rewarded.

And since when has that ever been a consideration?

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

And since when has that ever been a consideration?

Would the existing F100 crew all even want to go on the E190? If they're comfortable on the F100 many might be reluctant to do a new type rating and line training for a bugger all pay rise. I understand that was the mindset of some F100 drivers at Network when they got the A320.

[lee_apromise]

It will be interesting to see how Alliance management will crew the E190s. Will their management spend the money on type rating existing F100 crews, or go the cheaper option and hire already type rated and experienced crews, say from VA? The F100 and E190 have about the same MTOW and carry around 100 passengers so I'd imagine the pay would be similar to crew either types.

They could also hire Aussies in US fiying Ejet as well. Typed and current.

[wheels_down]

Are these the Jetblue E190s?

[snow dragon]

Regional erj175s.
Plenty of guys soon to be back home in Australia

[galdian]

Those pilots that ventured overseas for greener pastures shouldn’t be considered at all ! As they’ll be gone ASAP once international ramps up again.

The Australian way would be, look after those pilots being made redundant at Virgin, Tiger, and possibly Qantas and Jetstar.
These pilots and their families contribute significantly to the Australian enconomy and deserve first preference......

Fact is not all who headed overseas were chasing the big bucks, for some (many?) it was a job or no job.
Plenty of relationships/marriages wrecked, don't know of too many who ended up swimming in a vault full of money like Scrooge McDuck.

You may wish to temper your (incorrect) sweeping statement - or maybe not.

Cheers

[smiling monkey]

They could also hire Aussies in US fiying Ejet as well. Typed and current.

Typed in their FAA licenses? They'll need to transfer the type to their CASA license of course, without the standard FAA PIC limitations and Circling Approaches in VMC only limitations.

[lee_apromise]

Are these the Jetblue E190s?

Apparentlty Copa's.

[lee_apromise]

Typed in their FAA licenses? They'll need to transfer the type to their CASA license of course, without the standard FAA PIC limitations and Circling Approaches in VMC only limitations.

CASA didn't care about my PIC limitation.

As for VMC removal, conversion to Canadian ATPL with Ejet type will automatically remove it without doing the removal in U.S. Same for PIC limitation. Who cares about PIC limitation anyway? All aussies have done 25 hours of PF flying.

Then just use Canadian Ejet type rating for CASA conversion.

[lee_apromise]

Those pilots that ventured overseas for greener pastures shouldn’t be considered at all ! As they’ll be gone ASAP once international ramps up again.

The Australian way would be, look after those pilots being made redundant at Virgin, Tiger, and possibly Qantas and Jetstar.
These pilots and their families contribute significantly to the Australian enconomy and deserve first preference......

Total nonsense. They paid taxes to ATO too before they moved to U.S.

[Section28- BE]

Apparentlty Copa's.

Link: https://simpleflying.com/copa-alliance-airlines-e190/

rgds
S28

[j3pipercub]

Right,

So if it's not Ex Alliance guys who want to come home, it's the Virgin Ex-Ejet crew and now the GA lot who left to fly shiny jets in the states with the promise of a command within 12 months (who paid tax, lol). Surely, none of these posters have vested interests...

None of the three groups would have given the operation a second thought in January (especially the Virgin crew), but all of a sudden THEY are all the BEST candidates. I do especially love the part about 'known quantity' former Alliance pilots. You mean the ones that skipped out on bonds and handshakes when the desert called or bailed inside notice periods for what at the time seemed like greener pastures?

Seems like a lot of you would stab your grandmother for a start, probably push grandad down the stairs for a DEC too.

There's a reason why Alliance don't often have to advertise for flight crew. Not only does it seem a pretty good place to work, a lot of people seem to get an interview based on contacts already employed there. As a result, it generally also means their f*ckwit filter is pretty accurate. Hence why I don't work for them.

My advice is to call that 'bottom feeder' Alliance driver you haven't spoken to in years. You know, the one you thought you were better than, because you work for a 'real airline' or fly overseas or will have a jet command way before because, Murica. Get on the front foot and start that awkward networking:
"G'day maaaate, how are you? Just ringing for a catch up. Yeah, it's Dave maaaate. From Darwin. Nah the other Dave. Yeah It's been ages since we've had a chat eh maaaaate, we should get a coffee or a beer soon seeing as I'm on standown/back in the country (insert your personal circumstance)! How's things at Alliance maaaate?"

You'll get an interview in a heartbeat.

j3

[das Uber Soldat]

I am enjoying watching you clowns bicker with each other about who the 'best' candidates are going to be.

Please continue.

[slim pickings]

Should Alliance direct entry type rated pilots onto the Embraer in lieu of current crew it’ll destroy morale. Worthy of consideration. No doubt the ‘boys’ will get a gig. The regular line drivers will resent it terribly. Trust Alliance have some semblance of thought on this.

[maverick22]

Bugger being type rated - in 12 months time I’ll apply when I have 200 hrs Cessna P210R big bore LOP time.

[TT738]

so with up to 14 E190s Alliance will surely be operating many more of ex VA routes inc. into CBR. Almost all QF BNE/CBR flights were B717s before Corona IIRC.

Surely with Alliance's lower costs, they can make thin routes work. Could E190s be used to Solomons ? Some of VA load factors to HIR were awful.

Could E190s be used to thinner NZ routes like BNE/DUD & NTL/AKL ?

[wishiwasupthere]

sowith up to 14 E190s Alliance will surely be operating many more of ex VA routes inc. into CBR. Almost all QF BNE/CBR flights were B717s before Corona IIRC.

Surely with Alliance's lower costs, they can make thin routes work. Could E190s be used to Solomons ? Some of VA load factors to HIR were awful.

Could E190s be used to thinner NZ routes like BNE/DUD & NTL/AKL ?

I’ve heard from a very reliable source that they will be looking at restarting the highly lucrative Bankstown-Tijuana service.

[InZed]

I’ve heard from a very reliable source that they will be looking at restarting the highly lucrative Bankstown-Tijuana service.

Don't forget the (high demand) route ... Karratha to Singapore!

[DanV2]

so with up to 14 E190s Alliance will surely be operating many more of ex VA routes inc. into CBR. Almost all QF BNE/CBR flights were B717s before Corona IIRC.

Surely with Alliance's lower costs, they can make thin routes work. Could E190s be used to Solomons ? Some of VA load factors to HIR were awful.

Could E190s be used to thinner NZ routes like BNE/DUD & NTL/AKL ?

I heard Alliance are looking to start Brisbane to Mumbai via Karratha, Singapore and Bangkok with the E190s.

True Story.

[MacTrim]

so any of you outa work VA blokes endorsed on the BrazJet will definitely get a gig (DECs etc) and ALLIANCE wil be fully crewed and ready to go...moral , no aviation executive gives a flying fu€£ about MORAL !!! Sorry about the blokes that’ll have to stay on the F28-100 , but that’s how it’s gonna work in this ****e fight they call an aviation career nowadays

[airdualbleedfault]

​Should Alliance direct entry type rated pilots onto the Embraer in lieu of current crew it’ll destroy morale. Worthy of consideration. No doubt the ‘boys’ will get a gig. The regular line drivers will resent it terribly. Trust Alliance have some semblance of thought on this.​​​​​​
Welcome to aviation Australia in 2020, I'm afraid the good old days ended around 31 years ago

[wheels_down]

Depends who gets the job running the fleet and who they know. A fleet of 14 is certainly sizable and will probably have someone who has Virgin Embraer on their CV.

There would be quite a few abroad now returning home that are experienced in launching and overseeing numerous widebody fleets, but you would be hard pressed to find many locals here that have experience with both the regulator and Brazjet.

[PoppaJo]

Pionair are about to be pilotless. What a chance to grab a whole batch of current E2 Pilots. The entire training department is already there waiting. Pionair Management Pilots some are ex Virgin and most recently Emirates. So EK Pilots will no doubt be first in line if who I think gets involved considering all his mates on the super are back home jobless.

[slice]

I think only a smaller % of the recently redundant Virgin pilots have been on the Ejet (20% maybe?)

[Boeing7107]

looking to expand big time. Was there any mention of F70/F100 retirements ?

[smiling monkey]

So Alliance's Ejet fleet size will be roughly the same as Virgin's when Virgin were operating the Ejet. Would Alliance have the same number of flight crew per aircraft that Virgin had? What sort of numbers are we looking at here? 4 sets of flight crew per aircraft?

[mach.865]

A very small number may have broken their word, however no bonds were signed. Some individuals went to the Far East and apparently didn't make the grade only to return to Oz. However most had been with the company more than 6 years, as 152 pointed out they left due to the down turn in the mining industry and were concerned about their jobs.

As far as crews are concerned the company normally has a morning and evening flight to the mines. So considering annual leave and standby's, 5 crews for every 2 aircraft would probably do it. Initially there would be a small number of typed guys to get the the ball rolling but as the number of E190s increases, Alliance pilots will be moved on to the 190 leaving F50 and F100 slots. These will obviously be filled with rated guys that they know. I have heard of one F50 "checkie" who can start quite quickly.

Best of luck to all.

[MacTrim]

Yep ,monkey , that number of four is about the minimum ratio to keep the jets in revenue ‘black’. With a fleet manager and some C&T(not all captains,they will want the cheaper option of C&T F/O) I’d hazard a guess at about 60 sets of crew.

[galdian]

Honest Q: Alliance have a rep for being "gentle" with their aircraft utilisation on the Fokkers.

Would you expect the same for the JJ's or leaning more towards much higher utilisation that the more modern aircraft should be able to cop?

Cheers

[Daddy Fantastic]

Those pilots that ventured overseas for greener pastures shouldn’t be considered at all ! As they’ll be gone ASAP once international ramps up again.

The Australian way would be, look after those pilots being made redundant at Virgin, Tiger, and possibly Qantas and Jetstar.
These pilots and their families contribute significantly to the Australian enconomy and deserve first preference......

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Get the chip of you shoulder or at the very least get another one on the other shoulder to give your self some semblance on balance.

[novicef]

I heard some of the ex Alliance guys have already returned to Adelaide and Perth and have acquired E190 systems manuals.

[Servo]

I heard some of the ex Alliance guys have already returned to Adelaide and Perth and have acquired E190 systems manuals.

Finally some good news! Awesome. They would be feeling somewhat relieved and happy given the current environment.

[novicef]

Are there any other Virgin pilots who are retiring and willing to sell their E190 systems manuals and CBT?

[Zhoottoo]

Well done Alliance once again. An all time high on the ASX today. If I had put a dollar or two in to Alliance 3 months ago instead of posting dribble here ​​I'd be sitting on a nice 35% return. If I was cleverer than that and had a dabble in mid March - a whopping 300% return. Not that I did either. Bugger!!!

[Servo]

Well done Alliance once again. An all time high on the ASX today. If I had put a dollar or two in to Alliance 3 months ago instead of posting dribble here ​​I'd be sitting on a nice 35% return. If I was cleverer than that and had a dabble in mid March - a whopping 300% return. Not that I did either. Bugger!!!
Me neither. Havent got the money. Currently on jobkeeper with the bank and car finance breathing down my neck, whilst exec management at my airline sip champagne and eat caviar. Same with all politicians and hangers on in Canberra.

[MelbourneFlyer]

Just read this, a run-down on Alliance's E190 plans, https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/alliance-embraces-the-embraer-e190

First E190 not expected for entry into service until Feb 2021, despite delivery in Sept. Alliance looking at a few layout versions, most E190s will be all economy at 100 seats but some likely to keep Copa's business class cabin and some might even end up in an all-business layout similar to Alliance's Fokker 70.

Between Alliance's E190s and Rex putting B737s on the triangle, Australia's regional airlines aren't doing too bad it seems!

[No Idea Either]

Between Alliance's E190s and Rex putting B737s on the triangle, Australia's regional airlines aren't doing too bad it seems!

Yes......but, now they will have to compete on the open market against Qantas, Jetstar and hopefully Virgin. Completely different ‘kettle of fish’. It’s a bit different to contract flying, where you get the cash regardless, or surviving on $60 million handouts from the govmint. Time will tell.

[novicef]

More ex Alliance F50 and F100 pilots returning after Air Japan redundancies.

[Half Baked]

Returning to what?

[Daddy Fantastic]

Returning to what?

Exactly!!...Its not like Alliance is going to say 'Welcome Home, here have an E-Jet type rating'..

["Littlebird"]

Alliance obviously knows the industry and also understands about managing a successful business.
I would guess if you are ex Alliance you would remain ex Alliance. They know as soon as the industry picks up again, you are gone again to chase the coin amongst other things especially in Japan. They will read between the lines and spot the bull**** regardless of how much you practice your acting skills and your STAR responses. No soup for you...next!
L.B

[C152R]

[QUOTE=Daddy Fantastic;10876064]Exactly!!...Its not like Alliance is going to say 'Welcome Home, here have an E-Jet type rating'.

QUOTE=Littlebird
I would guess if you are ex Alliance you would remain ex Alliance. They know as soon as the industry picks up again, you are gone again to chase the coin amongst other things especially in Japan. They will read between the lines and spot the bull**** regardless of how much you practice your acting skills and your STAR responses. No soup for you...next!
L.B

I think you will find these pilots are intelligent enough to know that they would not obtain E190 slots. However once the present Alliance pilots are transferred to the E190 there would be slots on the F50 and F100 which these pilots could slot in to quite easily. I think you will also find that most of these guys have had enough of living outside Oz and will never leave again. On the other hand those who have not experienced flying and living overseas might find it quite tempting to move abroad. Mind you regarding the comment about Japan. Just remember a lot of pilots don't make it in Japan and are either let go during their conversion course as an FO or never make command. It is quite challenging, just 8 months to complete the conversion, provided you pass everything first time. If you fail the first JCAB check you may not be given a second attempt.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Alliance obviously knows the industry and also understands about managing a successful business.
I would guess if you are ex Alliance you would remain ex Alliance. They know as soon as the industry picks up again, you are gone again to chase the coin amongst other things especially in Japan. They will read between the lines and spot the bull**** regardless of how much you practice your acting skills and your STAR responses. No soup for you...next!
L.B

Absolutely!! I would agree with that. Alliance knows they are not top dog but do try their best, treat their staff well. They realise pilots want the ANA 767 contract etc.. However that does not mean they should take you back when things go belly up like now. Its not meant in a mean way, just that they want people who will stick around as being at home is more important to them than globetrotting the world looking for the next big gig...

If a guy had left after 10 years with a great record and wanted to do a stint overseas then come home, sure you know he is genuine. However a guy that did the bare minimum and left as soon as his bond was up or even before, no chance Im afraid!!

[Daddy Fantastic]

I think you will find these pilots are intelligent enough to know that they would not obtain E190 slots. However once the present Alliance pilots are transferred to the E190 there would be slots on the F50 and F100 which these pilots could slot in to quite easily. I think you will also find that most of these guys have had enough of living outside Oz and will never leave again. On the other hand those who have not experienced flying and living overseas might find it quite tempting to move abroad. Mind you regarding the comment about Japan. Just remember a lot of pilots don't make it in Japan and are either let go during their conversion course as an FO or never make command. It is quite challenging, just 8 months to complete the conversion, provided you pass everything first time. If you fail the first JCAB check you may not be given a second attempt.[/QUOTE]

Sure from a business point of view it might make sense to get a type rated F50/100 driver back on board to fill a vacant slot. However he would still most likely have had to have left on good terms, been in Alliance for a while and possibly looking at staying for good just so he can be at home in his home base. My bet is that not too many ex Alliance pilots will get back in though due to leaving in the first place for something bigger and better...They will do it again when things pick up. Im not judging these pilots, Im just saying I can see things from Alliance's point of view as well.

[smiling monkey]

With deliveries of the E190 to start this month, you'd think Alliance would have started advertising for positions by now? Haven't seen anything on Seek.com. Perhaps they are upgrading Fokker pilots to the Ejet internally?

[Daddy Fantastic]

I have it on good authority that they will definitely be looking at type rated E190 drivers for said positions. There will be some internal movement from the Fokker 100 to the E190 but type rated is of HIGH Priority if they can get it. Cant blame for that, pure business sense and to prevent 2 training events when they only have to do 1 if they can get it..

February is apparently when they expect to be flying and making money of them so as you say there will probably be adverts soon. Border closures are not helping the situation but I suspect they would want to start getting guys on board training by November at the latest to be ready and up to speed.

[smiling monkey]

Is this the first of Alliance's Ejets to be delivered? It's first flight since March of this year, so possibly a post maintenance test flight before the ferry to Australia?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/hp-1569cmp#2580558e

[krismiler]

The Japanese licence is one of the hardest in the world to obtain, astronaut medical, all written exams and an ultra pedantic flight test. If you have one and experience in Japan, you’d be very attractive to Japanese employers once things pick up.

A younger pilot might be tempted to head back to the land of the rising sun and could find it difficult to convince Alliance that he was going to stay. An older pilot with <10 years to retirement would be more likely to stick around. If he had left on good terms, could convince them that he wanted to see more of his grandchildren and was sick of chasing money then he might be in with a chance.

[Daddy Fantastic]

The Japanese licence is one of the hardest in the world to obtain, astronaut medical, all written exams and an ultra pedantic flight test. If you have one and experience in Japan, you’d be very attractive to Japanese employers once things pick up.

A younger pilot might be tempted to head back to the land of the rising sun and could find it difficult to convince Alliance that he was going to stay. An older pilot with <10 years to retirement would be more likely to stick around. If he had left on good terms, could convince them that he wanted to see more of his grandchildren and was sick of chasing money then he might be in with a chance.

Agreed, not sure why anybody would want to put themselves thru that Japanese nonsense anyway for a bit of extra coin. I know an ex 767 captain who did not get the job after flying the 767 for 10 years as PIC for a legacy carrier.

As for Alliance they seem like a good bunch and a terrific company to work for. You could be at home with family and friends, flying in a stable environment and treated with respect. I really dont understand why somebody would go to Emirates for example, take all that abuse, fatigue, poor treatment and mis-management especially seeing again how these foreign carriers treat their pilots and cabin crew, its quite disgusting.

It will be interesting to see how many ex Alliance pilots get knocked back after re-applying for a position since the world just imploded under Covid. I think some will get back in but not many..

[C152R]

[QUOTE][Daddy] Agreed, not sure why anybody would want to put themselves thru that Japanese nonsense anyway for a bit of extra coin. I know an ex 767 captain who did not get the job after flying the 767 for 10 years as PIC for a legacy carrier.

Obviously not up to JCAB standard.

[QUOTE][krismiler] A younger pilot might be tempted to head back to the land of the rising sun and could find it difficult to convince Alliance that he was going to stay. An older pilot with <10 years to retirement would be more likely to stick around. If he had left on good terms, could convince them that he wanted to see more of his grandchildren and was sick of chasing money then he might be in with a chance.

I think you will find the oldest pilot who left Alliance was a well qualified Capt. in his mid to late 40's. Also quite a few of them had been in the company well over six years. Alliance could easily employ those pilots that they want to rehire on the basis that they (The pilots) paid for the sim training and their salary commencing on their completion of line training which would take less than a week.
Further there are still some pilots who are still employed, flying and holding command positions who may return if offered positions on the F100 or F50.

As to the earlier comment about pilots leaving for Japan and the ME. You will find those pilots left because they feared for their jobs due to the downturn in the mining industry not for the "Coin" offered. I guess it is in the interests of some of those presently employed and those hoping for employment to tarnish the reasons of those returning.

Just remember it would be in the airlines interest to employ pilots that they know, who are qualified on the F50 and F100 and are familiar with the routes and company SOPs.

[Daddy Fantastic]

As to the earlier comment about pilots leaving for Japan and the ME. You will find those pilots left because they feared for their jobs due to the downturn in the mining industry not for the "Coin" offered. I guess it is in the interests of some of those presently employed and those hoping for employment to tarnish the reasons of those returning.

Just remember it would be in the airlines interest to employ pilots that they know, who are qualified on the F50 and F100 and are familiar with the routes and company SOPs.[/QUOTE]

Uncalled for comment. Im certainly not wishing any ill will or wanting to tarnish the record of those returning or those who left. If you read my earlier posts I clearly stated Im not judging these pilots for leaving, everybody has their reasons but I can see it from Alliances point of view as well. They may not want to re-hire them due to the fact they know they will leave again once Emirates and ANA pick up again etc..

As I stated I think some will get re-employed but not that many. Of course I could be wrong and if these guys get their jobs back then good for them as we all have families to support but dont be surprised if you dont get your job back if you left for the big shiny 777 at Emirates.

There are many hungry young pilots out there and Alliance know this, they may be willing to invest in them instead for both the company and the young pilots futures.

[slice]

What about hungry old pilots ?🤪

[megle2]

I’m guessing a “ hungry young pilot “ is sub 30, the rest are old

[grrowler]

I would suggest the +35yo pilots are less likely to leave (again) when things pick up, compared to the “hungry young pilots” who have not yet dipped their toes in the sandpit, etc.

[Daddy Fantastic]

I would suggest the +35yo pilots are less likely to leave (again) when things pick up, compared to the “hungry young pilots” who have not yet dipped their toes in the sandpit, etc.

I see your point however the Sandpit 3 will also call on guys with experience on type throwing money at them when things get good again. It could go either way but I can understand why Alliance may be reluctant to take most if not all of these guys back on.

[novicef]

Hey Daddy
Have you organised your job or promotion yet, heard a senior F100 "checkie" is now in Perth also a F50 "checkie" with another Air Japan ex Alliance F100 captain is in Brisbane. More are coming, you need to keep promoting the idea that these ex Alliance guys should not be employed. Best of luck.

[Johnny_56]

Is their first Jungle jet still coming in October?

[Daddy Fantastic]

Hey Daddy
Have you organised your job or promotion yet, heard a senior F100 "checkie" is now in Perth also a F50 "checkie" with another Air Japan ex Alliance F100 captain is in Brisbane. More are coming, you need to keep promoting the idea that these ex Alliance guys should not be employed. Best of luck.

Grow up chump!!! Clearly adult conversation is not your strong suit.

[longlegs]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/898x504/image001_bfae2a73e0974ba95692987d8b3f17376d4116db.jpgCOVID’s chaos a big opportunity for little airlinesAlliance Aviation has seen opportunity in the COVID crisis to expand its fleet, and will take delivery of its first Embraer 190 jet by the end of October.ROBYN IRONSIDE (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/Robyn+Ironside)AVIATION WRITER

By smashing Australia’s airline industry to pieces, the COVID crisis has created a unique opportunity for smaller operators to grab valuable market share from Qantas and Virgin.

Both Regional Express and Alliance admit the fleet expansions both airlines are undertaking were not even imagined at the start of 2020, which was to be Qantas’s year — marking the airline’s centenary.

Instead, Qantas has been forced to axe more than 8000 workers, ground dozens of aircraft, many indefinitely, and take on about $3bn more debt to survive the pandemic.

Virgin Australia is also shrinking its fleet and workforce but through the process of administration will at least emerge with fewer financial constraints than its larger rival.

Rex deputy chairman John Sharp said it was as if the COVID crisis had reset the industry and taken it back to square one.

“It’s like we were running a race and Qantas was way out in front and Virgin was some way behind and Alliance and Rex and all the other airlines were well back from there,” Mr Sharp told The Weekend Australian.

“All of a sudden a rope was thrown across the course and tripped up Qantas and tripped up Virgin, tripped up everybody and we all had to go back to the start and do it again.

“It means there’s a fresh start for the industry coming up and anyone could do well in this race.”

To that end, Rex was in the process of finalising finance for six Boeing 737s formerly leased by Virgin Australia to operate on the Golden Triangle routes of Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane.

The new additions would expand Rex’s fleet to 50 aircraft, with the possibility of another four 737s by the end of 2021.

Similarly Alliance was awaiting delivery of the first of 14 Embraer 190 jets, taking its fleet to 57 aircraft by June 30.

Managing director Scott McMillan said expansion had not been part of Alliance’s plans for 2020, until the pandemic turned the world on its head.

“Our history has been punctuated by opportunistic aircraft purchasing,” Mr McMillan said.

“When we started Alliance we bought our first aircraft post-September 11, when aircraft values got smashed. We bought some more in the middle of the global financial crisis and again in 2015, and we’re doing exactly the same with the Embraer 190s.”

Unlike Rex however, Alliance’s sights were not set on the competitive regular public transport sector.

Mr McMillan said the demand for charter services had skyrocketed during COVID and he was convinced the new customers they had acquired would be permanent.

“A lot of people and a lot of companies have come off scheduled airlines services in the regions and on to charter, and realised how good it is. They’re not going back,” he said.

In a further twist to the market reset, pilots, engineers and cabin crew were returning to the regions where many began their aviation careers.

The Victorian-based owner of Sharp Airlines, Malcolm Sharp, said the halt in the attrition rate had been one of the few silver linings of the pandemic.

“It’s actually steadied the ship for what was probably not sustainable for the regional aviation industry,” Mr Sharp said. “We were forever in a training environment where we were bringing new people on, training them, only to see them move on to the larger airlines.”

Qantas declined to comment but indicated it would protect its market share. On Friday the airline announced it would add Sydney-Merimbula to its network in a blow to Rex, which operates the only service on the route.

Virgin Australia CEO Paul Scurrah has previously said the post-administration airline would likely lose some market share by cutting unprofitable routes. The carrier has already dumped seven destinations.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

“All of a sudden a rope was thrown across the course and tripped up Qantas and tripped up Virgin, tripped up everybody and we all had to go back to the start and do it again.

“It means there’s a fresh start for the industry coming up and anyone could do well in this race.”

Pretty sure Alliance didn't need $52m help to get back to the start line, or even had the need to go all the way back there.

[Zhoottoo]

Has the aircraft pictured arrived in country? I can't find it on the usuals. Looks schmicko. Especially the big titles and Emirates style belly. A fly over of Virgin, Rex and Qantas HQs might be in order for the first flight.....

[VH DSJ]

Is their first Jungle jet still coming in October?

Planespotters probably know more! Keep an eye out for Mode S hexcode ACC705 on flightradar24.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/embraer-erj-190-n922qq-tvpx-trust-services/380dol

[smiling monkey]

Has the aircraft pictured arrived in country? I can't find it on the usuals. Looks schmicko. Especially the big titles and Emirates style belly. A fly over of Virgin, Rex and Qantas HQs might be in order for the first flight.....

Doesn't look quite as good as the one in the photo above, at the moment, but I'm sure it'll get repainted soon.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9884149

[novicef]

Hey Daddy just for you. I believe Alliance does have a seniority list in that when a position is available the airline does peruse the list and offer positions in that order but it is not strictly followed.
I see from your previous postings, you for one is not for promotion on seniority but on merit. I would say for people already on the list they would disagree. However the unemployed or dreamers would like to do away with it. Remember a few hours on a CRJ is not considered a lot of experience. Especially where the type rating was bought instead of earned. Also anything under 45 tons is considered light.
Perhaps you should have thought of qualifying for an EU licence first which would have enabled you to obtain a position with a regular airline without having to buy a type rating. However if you felt buying the rating was a quicker way to achieve your goals a 737 or 320 rating would have been of greater benefit, at least both are over 50 tons. Unfortunately only having King Air experience would have made the conversion pretty demanding and in the case of the 320 nearly impossible. You seem to have applied for jobs far and wide, however most airlines like stability, what they don't want is a pilot obtaining a type rating and then leaving for greener pastures. Also, pilots in their mid forty's without genuine command experience raises questions as to their suitability unless they are from a legacy carrier where time to command is slow. Any way best of luck.

[Zhoottoo]

Doesn't look quite as good as the one in the photo above, at the moment, but I'm sure it'll get repainted soon.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9884149

Looks like it has. A sneak peek of a tail on their FB account of VH-UYZ - which doesn't appear on the CASA register yet. Uniform Yankee....... UNITY call sign???

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/428x728/uyz_9295fbea9ce13441d10aa2fba54eb098483a894c.jpg

[onehitwonder]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x853/10d1c0bb_5f97_49d1_8058_fe355f1ac664_3cc11c306f229a04cb461af 8f38d25508c48f5f5.jpeg

[Daddy Fantastic]

Nice, it does look good!

[longlegs]

Now it makes sense. As a wide crusty old 89er told me 1 and 1 always makes 89....

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/459x651/alliance_37207b2a44be266d7025ea4e0afd9b4d78c6564a.jpg


https://www.accc.gov.au/public-registers/authorisations-and-notifications-registers/authorisations-register/virgin-australia-alliance-airlines Virgin Australia & Alliance Airlines Date lodged:
23 October 2020
Status:
Under considerationSummaryOn 23 October 2020 Virgin Australia and Alliance Airlines (the Applicants) applied for authorisation to cooperate in relation to the provision of services on around 40 regional routes and two short-haul international routes (Relevant Routes). Details of the routes are provided in the application which is available from the link below.

The Applicants submit that they are seeking authorisation in order to efficiently manage capacity and quickly respond to changes in demand due to the COVID-19 pandemic, including by:


Sharing information, including in relation to costs, willingness to operate, capacity, utilisation, anticipated demand and pricing about the Relevant Routes.
Agreeing capacity, flight schedules, and aircraft type, including whether a carrier will suspend or continue operations, which carrier will operate the Relevant Routes and under what commercial arrangements (e.g. wet lease or codeshare, or a revenue – sharing model).
Putting in place temporary commercial arrangements that are most suitable for the Relevant Route considering demand and risk profile in the exceptional current market conditions.
Potentially, entering risk and revenue sharing mechanisms and agreements as to price.

A full copy of the application for authorisation is available below.

The Applicants have also requested interim authorisation to facilitate the immediate planning and coordination of services on the Relevant Routes prior to the ACCC’s final determination in relation to the substantive application for authorisation.

The ACCC invites submissions on the interim authorisation request by 10 November 2020 and on the substantive application for authorisation by 20 November 2020. Further detail on how to make a submission is in the consultation letter below.

Timetable
23 October 2020

Lodgement of application and supporting submission.

27 October 2020

Public consultation process begins.

10 November 2020

Closing date for submissions on interim authorisation.

Week of 16 November

ACCC decision regarding interim authorisation.

20 November 2020

Closing date for submissions from interested parties.

December 2020

Applicant responds to issues raised in the public consultation process.

January/February 2021

Draft determination.

February/March 2021

Public consultation on draft determination including any conference if called.

March 2021

Final determination.
Applicant(s)

Virgin Australia International Airlines Pty Ltd
Virgin Australia Airlines (SE Asia) Pty Ltd
Virgin Australia Regional Airlines Pty Ltd
Alliance Aviation Services Limited
Virgin Australia Airlines Pty Ltd
Alliance Airlines Pty Limited

[VH DSJ]

Looking more likely now that ex Virgin Ejet drivers will get the E190 gig with Alliance.

[Chadzat]

And ATR pilots get completely shafted with Alliance completing the full takeover of all of VA ATR ex-routes.

[galdian]

Looking more likely now that ex Virgin Ejet drivers will get the E190 gig with Alliance.

Honest question - why?

I couldn't see anything that indicated there was any imperative that Alliance had to/would of necessity employ ex VA JJ drivers.

It may be Alliance see a great benefit in solely employing ex VA JJ drivers...their choice.
It may be Alliance see a great benefit in employing no ex VA JJ drivers at all...their choice.
It may be Alliance mix and match from the massive pool of experience now available...their choice.

Doubt anyone could argue that for whatever reason Alliance seem to do what they do well, no reason why they shouldn't continue that in recruiting whomever they think will suit their operation best.

Now if there are secret agreements/handshakes going around - now that could be a different matter! ;)
Cheers

[SpyderPig]

That’ll be VARAs number is up too. 10 of their RPT routes in the west are on that list, another 100 odd pilots about to be on the street

[Zinfandel]

Two very experienced ex VA Ejet pilots have already started in senior roles at Alliance. Other ex VA Ejet checkies have also been interviewed.

[VH DSJ]

Honest question - why?

I couldn't see anything that indicated there was any imperative that Alliance had to/would of necessity employ ex VA JJ drivers.



They don't need to of course, but considering this,

Two very experienced ex VA Ejet pilots have already started in senior roles at Alliance. Other ex VA Ejet checkies have also been interviewed.

and how the industry generally works, you'd think the ex VA Ejet drivers stand a good chance.

[Pavement]

That’ll be VARAs number is up too. 10 of their RPT routes in the west are on that list, another 100 odd pilots about to be on the street

VA is flying all of the WA RPT routes with B738. VARA is just doing the FIFO charters.

[SpyderPig]

VA is flying all of the WA RPT routes with B738. VARA is just doing the FIFO charters.

Those routes were all served by VARA pre covid with a mix of 737 also. VA then assumed all the rpt to keep crew current on the government subsided routes and VARA now does zero rpt and has stood some F100 crew down to 50%. Doesn't sound too bad but somehow VARA doesn’t qualify for jobkeeper so there’s no top up coming for them. Not sure how that worked but that’s what I’ve been told

[galdian]

They don't need to of course, but considering this,



and how the industry generally works, you'd think the ex VA Ejet drivers stand a good chance.

Like REX Alliance need to set up the top of the pyramid with CASA delegations/approvals, C&T quals etc and ex VA JJ are the obvious primary source.

They then could continue and just take on JJ rated ex VA, whether simply "bolting on" the VA mentality, methodology and rational to Alliance could be the best thing to do or the worst - depends on personal perspective.

Like REX Alliance presently they have an oversupply of experienced pilots to chose from, up to them to decide what/who should work out best for them....and why.

Cheers

[Renton Field]

They then could continue and just take on JJ rated ex VA, whether simply "bolting on" the VA mentality, methodology and rational to Alliance could be the best thing to do or the worst - depends on personal perspective.

What’s this ‘mentality,methodology and rationale’ that VA allegedly have?
Operationally the culture is sound.I think you’ll find a considerably different ‘mentality’ amongst the pilot group than that in the (ex) Village.
The two I know that have gone over would both be amongst the best operators you’d find.
Alliance could do a lot worse than bolting on some of that.
Like you said,personal perspective..

[getaway]

Could Alliance fly some international routes with E-jets for Virgin Mark 2 ?

If so where to ?

Don't think their F100s can make NZ/Fiji nonstop with a full load, but can the Alliance e-jets ?

Some former Virgin Mark 1 routes like BNE/DUD, NTL/AKL etc. might be perfect for the e-jets.

[wheels_down]

They are. Ballarat to Tehran. Via Indonesia, Thailand and India.

[Square Bear]

“Don't think their F100s can make NZ/Fiji nonstop”...........could barely do Norfolk Island!

Embraer, no idea.

[Section28- BE]

They are. Ballarat to Tehran. Via Indonesia, Thailand and India.

Hmmmm- Fantastic, Insider Trade (/ing) Intelligence you have, 'right' there Mr 'Wheels'......

Mate, What- have, you 'heard'/or are you "feeling/& absorbing" ref: HNL via HIR and then a Flat-Top........????? don't know why or the purpose, probably crap info..... and 'sources' on my part!!!!.

rgds all/be well
S28- BE

[rattman]

Don't think their F100s can make NZ/Fiji nonstop with a full load, but can the Alliance e-jets ?


Dont know the loading of the plane in question but a chartered F100 flew the NZ warriors from NZ to sydney when the NRL restarted

[arrow28]

With the recent tie up of Alliance and Virgin does that mean all the E190 slots will go to ex Virgin E190 pilots? Knowing how mates employ mates does that mean very few Alliance F100 pilots will get a position on the 190??

[Climb150]

With the recent tie up of Alliance and Virgin does that mean all the E190 slots will go to ex Virgin E190 pilots? Knowing how mates employ mates does that mean very few Alliance F100 pilots will get a position on the 190??
If you look back a whopping 13 posts you will notice this has already been asked.

[ifylofd]

They don't need to of course, but considering this,



and how the industry generally works, you'd think the ex VA Ejet drivers stand a good chance.

Some mail from over in the West suggests there is some guy who thinks he's running VARA seems to know a thing or three about Ejets - just ask him - so why wouldn't they have tapped that genius resource??? (once again - just ask him - apparently the lads and lassies say the sort of guy who just knows, well, everything)

[mgahan]

Just got the ETA for the last refuel stop for the first delivery - 0033.

MJG

[Green.Dot]

Some mail from over in the West suggests there is some guy who thinks he's running VARA seems to know a thing or three about Ejets - just ask him - so why wouldn't they have tapped that genius resource??? (once again - just ask him - apparently the lads and lassies say the sort of guy who just knows, well, everything)

Must be GT?

[Zinfandel]

The E190 would do the majority of the flying under the proposed agreement with Virgin. The E190 has the legs to do BNE-HIR and my guess this route wouldn’t start until around April next year.

Most of the proposed and some of the former wet lease routes were previously operated by the Virgin E190s.

Alliance will be Virgin's Cobham.

[ebt]

The E190 would do the majority of the flying under the proposed agreement with Virgin. The E190 has the legs to do BNE-HIR and my guess this route wouldn’t start until around April next year.

Most of the proposed and some of the former wet lease routes were previously operated by the Virgin E190s.

Alliance will be Virgin's Cobham.

Difference being that Alliance has a lot more of its own organic business, compared to Cobham. The VA work will increase, but Alliance knows its core business is in resource charter, and they will continue to make the bulk of their money there.

[mgahan]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1490x922/next_stop_brisbane_9569dcb421ec3550845a5e6691bf2e335e32e82e. jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1373x923/turning_rght_for_brisbane_7bca3cf29bd061117bd999f7dc248da489 8c52c5.jpg

[Roj approved]

Alliance will be Virgin's Cobham.

But partially owned by QF😂😂

[whisperjet146]

But partially owned by QF😂😂

🎪🤦🏼‍♂️ Isnt that still under ACCC investigation.

[Icarus2001]

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/investigation-into-qantas%E2%80%99s-stake-in-alliance-airlines-continues

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/qantas-stake-in-alliance-airlines-raises-concerns

The ACCC is continuing to investigate whether this acquisition is likely to have the effect of substantially lessening competition. Qantas has provided an undertaking not to acquire any further interest in Alliance until the investigation is completed.

Glacial pace, taking their speed cue from the ATSB.

[Wunwing]

I think that the ACCC will not make any decision on Alliance until the ownership of VARA is decided.

QF having removed themselves from Cobham may now not be so interested in contractors. The current industrial circumstances mean that they should do far better keeping everything in house and screwing down workers contracts than going outside.
Wunwing

[Zhoottoo]

Nice, it does look good!

Just saw this https://www.facebook.com/BrisbaneAirport/videos/868219720653066 and it sure does!!!

[getaway]

was just looking at alliance website & Cooma listed as a port ? How come ? Don't think they fly there, at least yet.

F28s, which I believe are older version of F70s, used to fly into Cooma 2 or 3 decades ago.

[IAW]

Ad hoc ski charters.

[getaway]

Ad hoc ski charters.
no money in adhoc, but series of charters or RPT.

Maybe Alliance are taking over from Rex on SYD/Cooma ? 34 seats is not really enough.

What are new security rules regarding Cooma Airport ? Mt Hotham airport ?

Heard Cooma runway needs some "work".

Can a F70 still get in & out of there ? If so, economies of scale would work much better.

[IAW]

Don't get too excited, Alliance have done work into Cooma before, thats all. Why would they collude with REX to take over a Sydney route?

[Zinfandel]

ACCC has given interim approval to the QQ/VA regional flying.

[Zhoottoo]

Profit upgrade released by Alliance to the ASX this week. Still thinking these guys and girls are in a very, very small world group of sizeable passenger airlines trading profitably. Possibly a group of one. Who would have ever thought.

[SpyderPig]

Anyone know what they’re offering for the ejet jockeys yet?

[TBM-Legend]

Alliance ASX announcement today of purchase of 16 ex-AA E190's taking total to 30....

[Icarus2001]

That will be quite a fleet. How many did Virgin have when they used E170 and E190?

The simulator going to Brisbane as expected.

[Daddy Fantastic]

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/alliance-scoop-up-another-16-embraer-e190-jets

[Dehavillanddriver]

Icarus, 18 x 190’s, 6 x 170’s

[longlegs]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1272x850/n974qq_aa34dfdc82d5ebeda6c0cd1c36520a1df9e0250a.jpg
N974QQ arrived YBNE afternoon. Pretty clear it belongs to Alliance. Even from below.

[novicef]

Is Alliance employing any ex F100 Captains?

[MelbourneFlyer]

Qantas adopts Alliance Embraer E190 for regional routes: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-adopts-alliance-embraer-e190-for-regional-routes

[Climb150]

So what is Q doing with all those 717's?

[Lapon]

So what is Q doing with all those 717's?

Short haul east coast ops with extensive expansion out of Melbourne.

[Arthur D]

Short haul east coast ops with extensive expansion out of Melbourne.

Or maybe they realise they bought a pup, with expensive EBA’s and militant unions.....

Welcome the NEW Cobham..... Alliance

[Sue Ridgepipe]

There's also a chance that some of Qantas' international pilots and crew will work on the nimble 94-seat jets. "Importantly, Alliance is keen to provide the opportunity for our international pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s given it will be some time before overseas markets fully recover," Gissing says.
Maybe an opportunity for some guys to get back in the air.....

[brokenagain]

Maybe an opportunity for some guys to get back in the air.....]

Hopefully VA and TT guys and gals who actually have no flying jobs rather than those that are on standdown with flying jobs to go back to eventually.

[goodonyamate]

Hopefully VA and TT guys and gals who actually have no flying jobs rather than those that are on standdown with flying jobs to go back to eventually.


probably the case. Also LWOP for QF will be happening/available as well.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Or maybe they realise they bought a pup, with expensive EBA’s and militant unions.....

Welcome the NEW Cobham..... Alliance

Who’s the pup?

[B772]

Alliance shares will end the day up 10% making the 12 month return up about 71%. Qantas are down 27.8% for the past 12 months. Virgin well they dropped off the planet.

[Icarus2001]

Hopefully VA and TT guys and gals who actually have no flying jobs rather than those that are on standdown with flying jobs to go back to eventually.

There's also a chance that some of Qantas' international pilots and crew will work on the nimble 94-seat jets. "Importantly, Alliance is keen to provide the opportunity for our international pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s given it will be some time before overseas markets fully recover," Gissing says.

My bolding. :(

[cynphil]

I think Qantas 20% ownership of Alliance may have something to do with the crewing arrangements!!

[brokenagain]

My bolding. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/sowee.gif

It would be disappointing if that occurred. Why train them up to fly the E-jet when they’ll just go back to their white hats in 12/18/24 months time, when you’ve got a large number of actual unemployed pilots that will likely take the job for the long term.

[cynphil]

You’re assuming that there will be the same number of flying jobs at Qantas to go back to post-covid!

[Zinfandel]

There are still a large number of ex-VA Ejet pilots that are either still stood down, on LWOP (doing non flying work) or redundant that are still waiting for a call from Alliance. Why would there be a need to look at non-endorsed pilots?

[Chad Gates]

It’s replacing QF flying. Why shouldn’t QF pilots be able to get the job’s?

[Zinfandel]

It’s replacing QF flying. Why shouldn’t QF pilots be able to get the job’s?

Did the QF pilots get jobs on the 717 that replaced their flying previously...the answer is no, so unfortunately the precedent has been set.

There is no Ejet SIM in Australia as yet and when it gets here Alliance will not have the capability or approvals to do Type ratings so for those reasons alone why would they take non-type rated pilots.

[Chad Gates]

Sure, but this time it seems it’s being offered. Time will tell if it’s a true offer or just words.

[cynphil]

Maybe it’s being offered so that there will be no “transmission of business “ argument by the union? With Qantas owning 20% of Alliance???

[Lapon]

Maybe nothing is actually being offered and the comments regarding international crew are nothing more than an obvious statement that a number of QF pilots are not working for the foreseeable future and may choose to apply for a position through the normal process.

Maybe people on here are reading too much into it and thinking such comments mean QF will be arranging placements. I don't see that written anywhere.

[neville_nobody]

Sure, but this time it seems it’s being offered. Time will tell if it’s a true offer or just words.


Nothing is being offered, they are just saying there is a chance. There is a chance QF pilots are not selected too. It's still a chance though!!

It would be kinda funny as it's such a GA thing to say from a company, but since people have careers on the line here it's probably best not to trivialised it. Given it's a new type I would suggest that there will be a few type rated folks required.

[cynphil]

I think you will see that it is CEO John Gissing saying he is keen for Qantas International pilots currently not working to get an offer as quoted in the article! So there may be more to it!!

[Section28- BE]

This one (ex the ACCC)- Done, Dusted and of Nil relevance....????, Now.

Just a question....???, is all.

Rgds
S28- BE

an incomplete Extract (with URL's and plastic Cutlery removed...):Investigation into Qantas’s stake in Alliance Airlines continues1 June 2020

The ACCC is continuing to investigate Qantas Airways’ (Qantas) (ASX:QAN) acquisition of a 19.9 per cent stake in Alliance Aviation (Alliance) (ASX:AQZ) during these uncertain times in the aviation industry.

Qantas acquired a 19.9 per cent interest in Alliance last year, becoming Alliance’s single biggest shareholder. On 1 August 2019, the ACCC issued a statement of issues....

The ACCC is providing this update in response to queries by various stakeholders. The Australian aviation industry is in a state of major upheaval and now, more than ever, we are concerned that competition by smaller airlines is not hindered. We will continue to seek information from market participants to gauge any impacts on competition arising from Qantas’s stake in Alliance.

Alliance is an important and close competitor to Qantas, particularly in regional markets and for fly-in fly-out services for mining customers. Alliance, through a codeshare arrangement with Virgin, is also Qantas’s only competitor on passenger routes between Brisbane and the important regional centres of Bundaberg and Gladstone.

“Qantas’s decision to complete the acquisition of the 19.9 per cent stake in Alliance without first seeking ACCC clearance means this is an enforcement investigation rather than a standard merger review,” ACCC Chair Rod Sims said.

“The Australian aviation industry remains highly concentrated and it is crucial that competition provided by smaller airlines is maintained long-term.”

“The ACCC has been closely scrutinising the effects of the acquisition of this shareholding by Qantas. Acquiring a strategic stake in a close competitor in such a concentrated market raises clear competition concerns,” Mr Sims said.

The ACCC’s investigation is focussed on the competitive dynamics between Qantas and Alliance, examining whether Qantas’s stake affects Alliance’s ability to raise funds, consider takeovers or participate in commercial ventures, and whether Qantas is attempting to exert influence on Alliance’s decision-making or operations.

“We will consider enforcement action if there is evidence that the Qantas shareholding is compromising Alliance’s ability to be a strong competitor to Qantas, now and in the future,” Mr Sims said.

Qantas has stated publicly that it intends to seek regulatory approval to build on its current shareholding, with a longer-term view of taking a majority position in Alliance.

“Our current view is that any further increase in Qantas’s stake in Alliance is very likely to raise significant competition concerns under the Competition and Consumer Act,” Mr Sims said.

Background

On 1 February 2019, Qantas announced it had acquired a 19.9 per cent shareholding in Alliance, and that it intended to subsequently seek regulatory approval to acquire a majority position. The current market value of the shareholding is estimated to be over $60 million.

Brisbane-based Alliance supplies charter air services to corporate customers in Queensland, Northern Territory and Western Australia; mainly mining and resources companies requiring flights for their fly-in fly-out workforces. Alliance competes strongly with Qantas for this, in its own right or in cooperation with Virgin under the Charter Alliance Agreement.

Alliance and Qantas are also the only operators for regular passenger transport routes between Brisbane and the important regional centres of Bundaberg and Gladstone.
Release number:
107/20
ACCC Infocentre: Use this form to ....
Media enquiries:
Media team - 1300 138 917

[Beer Baron]

Did the QF pilots get jobs on the 717 that replaced their flying previously...the answer is no, so unfortunately the precedent has been set.
Were there several hundred QF pilots stood down because there was ‘no useful work’ at the time??
The answer is no.

[Arthur D]

I think you will see that it is CEO John Gissing saying he is keen for Qantas International pilots currently not working to get an offer as quoted in the article! So there may be more to it!!

Lol, are you seriously quoting John Gissing as a reliable source.....

Under his watch -
Cobham expanded
NAA expanded
Jitconnect AOC dissolved
QLink ZERO opportunities, but multiple base closures
Let’s not mention all the false and broken promises at Jetstar

[Daddy Fantastic]

It would be disappointing if that occurred. Why train them up to fly the E-jet when they’ll just go back to their white hats in 12/18/24 months time, when you’ve got a large number of actual unemployed pilots that will likely take the job for the long term.

Exactly!! Use the QF international guys as an absolute last resort. Give the jobs to pilots who need a job and will stay for the long term. QF pilots have been spoilt for too long, let them take the hit this time and invest in people who will stay.

[Climb150]

It makes no difference what is the right thing to do or not. Qantas will do what their bean counters tell them to do. QF management couldn't care less about fairness. I don't think fairness is a subject covered in an MBA.

[Fujiroll76]

Exactly!! Use the QF international guys as an absolute last resort. Give the jobs to pilots who need a job and will stay for the long term. QF pilots have been spoilt for too long, let them take the hit this time and invest in people who will stay.

So when did you get your QF unsuccessful letter?
Salty much...

[Zhoottoo]

Just dribbling my weeties down my shirt imagining what Bain/VA said when they heard this

F.... .me, ​​​​​​​is there anything Alliance can't do!!!

Probably a good idea about now for Rex to get the Alliance boys and girls on the blower and transition their golden triangle Boeing startup to Jungle Jet wet lease. ASAP.

​​​​ A 2/3 full E190 sorta works. A 2/3 empty 738 doesn't.

[Double_Clutch]

Erm my mafs aren’t dat great buuuut

2/3 Ejet don’t equal the same numbers as 2/3 737

[Australopithecus]

But 2/3 of an EJet is approximately 1/3 of a 737.

[WillieTheWimp]

Zhoottoo said "A 2/3 empty 738"

∴ 2/3 full E190 ≈ 1/3 full 737

Something like that anyway...

[smiling monkey]

There's also a chance that some of Qantas' international pilots and crew will work on the nimble 94-seat jets. "Importantly, Alliance is keen to provide the opportunity for our international pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s given it will be some time before overseas markets fully recover," Gissing says.

Well, that explains why Alliance haven't advertised for any Ejet pilots then. I dare say, once the 3 years is up, QF will have purchased their own Ejets operated by the Qjet folks.

[antheads]

Alliance expanding in TSV. Flights to Cloncurry and Cairns. Going up against Qantas. Not bookable on google flights/webjet etc, what is the rationale, are they hoping that Virgin onsells these flights in the future, or to show ACCC competition is alive and well?

[Going Nowhere]

The flights are charters which the client has agreed to release seats to the public. Alliance do this on many other routes.

[smiling monkey]

So how will this work for the QF international pilots? They apply for LWOP at QF and then work under Alliance T&Cs? If so, that would be mean a significant pay cut?

[galdian]

I just don't get it.

Talks are QF pilots who DO have a guaranteed place to go when things pick up will be employed whilst a fair number of pilots who do NOT have anywhere to go will not be considered?

Honest Q: from the airlines point of view what's the benefit?

[Ragnor]

I just don't get it.

Talks are QF pilots who DO have a guaranteed place to go when things pick up will be employed whilst a fair number of pilots who do NOT have anywhere to go will not be considered?

Honest Q: from the airlines point of view what's the benefit?

The unions leave them alone I guess. What’s wrong with promoting the hard working guys and gals already there?

If they do go down this avenue I hope the QF pilots pay in full the type rating and training cost. We all know the first sign of international opening they will do what ever to get back.

[Beer Baron]

So how will this work for the QF international pilots? They apply for LWOP at QF and then work under Alliance T&Cs? If so, that would be mean a significant pay cut?
It would be a significant pay rise for a stood down A380 pilot. In 3 years he’ll return to Qantas and someone else would fill the E190 job.

Some of the announced flying are routes previously flown by QF mainline. By outsourcing this flying it will keep more QF pilots stood down, cancel training courses and reduce hours.

There are 12 A380’s in the desert and up to 12 E190 coming to fly QF routes. A token few roles flying the jets seems fair enough when you are stood down supposedly due to there being ‘no useful work’ for you to do. Clearly there is useful work to be done, but they are making a business decision (not COVID) to have someone else do it.

[Props _are_for_boats]

It would be a significant pay rise for a stood down A380 pilot. In 3 years he’ll return to Qantas and someone else would fill the E190 job.

Some of the announced flying are routes previously flown by QF mainline. By outsourcing this flying it will keep more QF pilots stood down, cancel training courses and reduce hours.

There are 12 A380’s in the desert and up to 12 E190 coming to fly QF routes. A token few roles flying the jets seems fair enough when you are stood down supposedly due to there being ‘no useful work’ for you to do. Clearly there is useful work to be done, but they are making a business decision (not COVID) to have someone else do it.

again, wish there was a like button

[aviation_enthus]

All this discussion, but why should a QF pilot get first go on the E190’s with a complete separate company?

I understand the discussion around the NJS 717’s because it’s fully owned by QF. But now we are talking about a secondary company, doing contract work for QF that is otherwise completely seperate to QF (and the pilot group).

Why the hell should you guys have advantage over the Alliance guys? Why should you have first go over any other new hire to Alliance?

By all means, take LWOP from QF and go work somewhere else. But you should have the same opportunity as any other new joiner to Alliance.

[ScepticalOptomist]

All this discussion, but why should a QF pilot get first go on the E190’s with a complete separate company?

I understand the discussion around the NJS 717’s because it’s fully owned by QF. But now we are talking about a secondary company, doing contract work for QF that is otherwise completely seperate to QF (and the pilot group).

Why the hell should you guys have advantage over the Alliance guys? Why should you have first go over any other new hire to Alliance?

By all means, take LWOP from QF and go work somewhere else. But you should have the same opportunity as any other new joiner to Alliance.

Maybe it’s a legal problem of stand down vs useful work - maybe hard to justify legally any expansion whilst guys are stood down.. maybe cheaper / easier to give them a cheap E jet job than pay them to sit around and do nothing? As much as QF would love to have them all stood down for years, it may not be legal. Whispers I’m hearing saying QF have got their wires crossed in what they will be allowed to get away with. Time will tell?

[havick]

Maybe it’s a legal problem of stand down vs useful work - maybe hard to justify legally any expansion whilst guys are stood down.. maybe cheaper / easier to give them a cheap E jet job than pay them to sit around and do nothing? As much as QF would love to have them all stood down for years, it may not be legal. Whispers I’m hearing saying QF have got their wires crossed in what they will be allowed to get away with. Time will tell?

That still doesn’t answer ScepticalOptomist’s question, as he points out Alliance is in no way part of the QF group, they owe no special treatment to QF pilots than any other applicant.

[TinFoilhat2]

That still doesn’t answer ScepticalOptomist’s question, as he points out Alliance is in no way part of the QF group, they owe no special treatment to QF pilots than any other applicant.

Too right, if they want to fly an E-Jet for Alliance then they should quit their QF job and apply like everybody else. However if they stay furloughed/ with the intention of returning to QF once things are back to normal then they should be the absolute last choice.

No special favours for them, Alliance owes them nothing!!

[galdian]

Alliance may be part owned by QF but it is not in any way a subsidiary or similar, it is a totally individual - and successful in a brutal business environment - entity who have the right to take on whomever they should choose for purposes of expansion.

There is no reason the cost effectiveness of having pilots stood down at another airline should enter their decision making.

There is no transfer of flying or similar, they would be operating as a contractor using their own staff to fulfil the agreed contract with QF.

The fact there is a "creeping assumption" from some that QF pilots will get any gigs is simply curious when there's a large supply of qualified pilots from different backgrounds that Alliance can consider, many/most whom do NOT have a guaranteed, industrially structured gig to fall back on.

As a sideline goes without saying that hopefully the current Alliance pilots will benefit from any expansion regards assignments etc but that's an internal consideration for Alliance management and its pilot group and no doubt will be a balance between fairness Vs cost effectiveness Vs practicality and whatever else you want to throw into the mix.

[Kaboobla]

Qantas are paying for the introduction into service of the E-Jets. Not Alliance. Its a deal like with the 717s. The aircraft are owned by Qantas but operated by the contractor.

So because of this Qantas gets to decide who flys them. Not Alliance and not whingers about fairness on PPrune. Its a business decision Qantas has made.

The fact that the E-Jet seats will be available for Qantas mainline pilots, has been confirmed in an email by the current Qantas chief pilot.

The email says the endorsement costs will be covered by Alliance, but in reality QF will pay Alliance for this as well.

So the question is, why would QF do this ? Its not from the goodness of their heart. Its so they can keep the majority of the longhaul pilots stood down indefinitely without redundancy provisions applying.

At some point in the next 3-5 years, where mainline pilots are still stood down, but Network, Cobham and Alliance pilots are flying full lines and being paid their full salaries, somebody will challenge the refusal of QF to pay redundancy packages in court. The challenge being that those stood down pilots are actually redundant under the fair work act (they are actually redundant right now TBF)

That court case will fail if the complaining pilot can be proven to be have been 'offered' a position in another 'group company'.

Now my bet is the location of the E-Jet slots will be in places that are not popular with existing pilots who are settled with their families - say Darwin or Cairns - so the majority will not be taken up.

Last point again - QF will own these jets and will decide who flys them. In the same way they decided that mainline pilots could not fly for JQ or Network. This time they have decided otherwise.

[galdian]

Hi Kaboobla

Thanks for the well laid out expalantion, whilst not casting aspertions I point out there are a sh*tload of moving parts to what you've described, if it is along those lines then the grand plan is indeed grand, sadly you can't argue that business isn't business and that's solely from where decisions come for many.

Suppose all hail the puppetmaster AJ in all his glory.

If nothing else still hope the existing Alliance pilots get some benefits/options from any expansion, Alliance always had a reputation for being a pretty fair place to work for what it was - at least that appeared to general vibe - be a shame if they lost some of that due to unfettered string pulling by the puppetmaster.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Its so they can keep the majority of the longhaul pilots stood down indefinitely without redundancy provisions applying.

At some point in the next 3-5 years, where mainline pilots are still stood down, but Network, Cobham and Alliance pilots are flying full lines and being paid their full salaries, somebody will challenge the refusal of QF to pay redundancy packages in court. The challenge being that those stood down pilots are actually redundant under the fair work act (they are actually redundant right now TBF)

That court case will fail if the complaining pilot can be proven to be have been 'offered' a position in another 'group company'.



Unfortunately for QF, that’s not how the IR laws work. You can’t offer a job on lower T&Cs and sidestep redundancy provisions, and you certainly can’t make it in another entity.

QF, with every other business using stand down provisions, will be in a precarious position if the workforce isn’t being paid as per their awards once the government restrictions to their trade are lifted. Passenger demand / wrong size aircraft / load factors etc have nothing to do with it.

If QF choose to remove a fleet / destination / entity, it’s a commercial
decision - stand down can’t and won’t apply.

Take emotion out of the argument - mainline / alliance / network / JQ / etc are just business cases - the only thing that will save the employees is in their award.

The QF A380 / 747 pilots will be just fine - they have a strong award signed off during the pandemic - fair work won’t touch it.

Spreading FUD is the best the company can do to make some of them leave on their own accord - LWOP / VR / a job at a group airline may convince some (SOs especially) to voluntarily leave the comfort and safety of their award, thus reducing the cost once stand down is over.

With vaccines around the world doing better than hoped, and the numbers of infected falling fairly rapidly, it won’t be as long as most predict.

[Beer Baron]

That still doesn’t answer ScepticalOptomist’s question, as he points out Alliance is in no way part of the QF group, they owe no special treatment to QF pilots than any other applicant.
Perhaps when a client comes along and says, “we’d like to contract millions of dollars worth of flying on a multi-year contract covering about a dozen new aircraft but we have a few conditions”, Alliance decides to hear them out.
- We want the aircraft to say QantasLink on the side.
- We want the flight attendants to wear Qantas uniforms
- We want them to have a business class
- We want x, y, z, etc.
- We need you to employ some of our crew as we have hundreds stood down and you will be short.

As you say, Alliance can tell Qantas to shove it as they owe Qantas pilots nothing. But is a multi-million dollar contract worth putting at risk?
The old adage says, ‘The customer is always right’ and in this circumstance the customer is Qantas.

[Zhoottoo]

[QUOTE=Kaboobla;10985147].....The aircraft are owned by Qantas .....Last point again - QF will own these jets....

Guessing some Alliance directors will be doing time in the big house given recent Alliance ASX announcements of the aircraft purchase say otherwise.

[Kaboobla]

If you think Alliance just 'magically' came up with the funding for aircraft leases on this magnitude I have some money in Nigeria I can gift you if you send me your account details.

[Green.Dot]

And to think that Virgin used to have E-Jets, maybe they were a good money maker, or is it only when they are old and cheap to acquire?

Knowing Virgin they probably leased them for 5 times as much as any other operator.

[aviation_enthus]

If you think Alliance just 'magically' came up with the funding for aircraft leases on this magnitude I have some money in Nigeria I can gift you if you send me your account details.

Alliance raised $91M last year. Plus an additional $30M. No need to send money to Nigeria, it’s all laid out on their ASX updates.

https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/ASX/asx-research/1.0/file/2924-02243978-2A1230437?access_token=83ff96335c2d45a094df02a206a39ff4

Unlike guys like you on Pprune, Alliance are actually required by law to explain what they’re upto.

NO WHERE does it say any of the E190’s Alliance has bought are owned by QF. Alliance bought 30 in total for “wet lease operations”. What QF is paying them to do, is exactly the market Alliance was aiming for. Which is pretty much exactly what Alliance has been doing with the F100’s for QF/VA. Oh I guess QF own them as well??

https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/ASX/asx-research/1.0/file/2924-02324180-2A1271119?access_token=83ff96335c2d45a094df02a206a39ff4



Qantas are paying for the introduction into service of the E-Jets. Not Alliance. Its a deal like with the 717s. The aircraft are owned by Qantas but operated by the contractor.

So because of this Qantas gets to decide who flys them. Not Alliance and not whingers about fairness on PPRuNe. Its a business decision Qantas has made.

“Whingers about fairness on PPrune”??? What about QF guys assuming they are entitled to fly anything in Australia because they’re stood down? Pot meet kettle.

I was just pointing out the rubbish on this thread. After all it’s supposed to be about the various good things Alliance are doing (and making money), yet it’s been hijacked by you lot assuming QF pilots get to hijack someone else’s job!

If the QF chief pilot said you “may” get to fly them, I’m sure it’ll be on LWOP and after applying like a normal person that’s new to Alliance. Not because QF “own” the 190’s.

[Check_Thrust]

Kaboobla,

You might feel that Qantas own the aircraft but all announcements made by Alliance and Qantas indicate that these are Alliance’s EJets.

Here are some references for you:
AQZ ASX Announcement: Acquisition of Additional 16 Embraer E190 Aircraft (https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/ASX/asx-research/1.0/file/2924-02324180-2A1271119?access_token=83ff96335c2d45a094df02a206a39ff4)
Excerpt:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1579x431/8a535538_b359_4cec_a744_cd3cc650cff7_d0a640b8d653e51bf005405 4208e058a36cae976.jpeg

AQZ ASX: Alliance signs E190 capacity deal with QANTAS (https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/ASX/asx-research/1.0/file/2924-02337807-2A1278456?access_token=83ff96335c2d45a094df02a206a39ff4)
Exerpt:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1589x790/79d90638_5281_46c8_96ed_2c944ec8f9f3_f9ae117ee94be40ca5ae39f 3b90d83a3239c4783.jpeg

QANTAS Newsroom: QANTAS GROUP TARGETS DOMESTIC GROWTH WITH ALLIANCE AIRLINES CAPACITY DEAL (https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-group-targets-domestic-growth-with-alliance-airlines-capacity-deal/)
Excerpt:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1919x202/c0231994_6306_4b60_a7c3_7bda50219630_af69f998a757693d46469d1 656c46fcac83d733b.jpeg


Qantas may choose to buy their own EJets in the future but for now these ones coming into service are Alliance’s.

[galdian]

Whilst suppose no chance of happening be interesting to hear from the horses mouth ie Flight Ops Management at Alliance as to whether they have received any directives from upper management regards pilot recruitment (if required) or being left to their own devices to run their department/recruit as they see best.

[Global Aviator]

Back to how good is Alliance.

Buying 30 E190’s for 90 mil or is it 120 mil? Either or means the asset cost is very low. Just like the F100’s. Smart aircraft acquisition!

No doubt there is a stack of jungle jet parts as well.

[Kaboobla]

I never said that QF pilots feel they are entitled to anything. I have just relayed the correspondence from the QF chief pilot. If people think it’s BS that’s up to them. Given QFs track record with all the other outsourcing and transfer of former mainline flying they could have simply said that the E-Jet deal is happening and go and pound sand.

I think QF mainline pilots have been very reasonable over the years given the massive amount of outsourcing of their own jobs that has occurred. I can’t think of one instance where a QF mainline pilot has been critical or thrown barbs at network / Cobram ect take your pick.

Reference the aircraft ownership issue - check who the leasing companies that own the jets are owned by or nominees for said leasing companies. You would not be surprised who owns the companies and the favourable lease rates involved. There is more then one way of supporting a subsidiary operation then direct cash injections.

[PoppaJo]

Would it not be more logical to go after Tiger and Virgin laid off drivers? More long term commitment.

[Kaboobla]

Yes it would be more logical to take type rated and experience pilots from VIrgin ect if as some point the A380 and B787s are coming back and you are going to lose pilots out of your operation.

But if Alan is going to kill the mainline operation for good then there will be no seats to come back to. So any QF LWOP pilot to Alliance will probably end up staying.

Again if the training costs are covered by QF, Alliance won’t care about crew turnover. Has no impact on costs

[aviation_enthus]

Reference the aircraft ownership issue - check who the leasing companies that own the jets are owned by or nominees for said leasing companies. You would not be surprised who owns the companies and the favourable lease rates involved. There is more then one way of supporting a subsidiary operation then direct cash injections.

Unless you have a reference or are able to show any links, I’ll stick with the official ASX announcements from Alliance.

Just to add, it was clear that QF owned the 717’s and then contracted Cobham to provide crews. This does not seem to be the same arrangement.

Note the use of the word “purchase” and “funded through capital raising and/or debt”

(My highlighting)


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1328x828/2487b8e6_8fb6_40a9_a97e_34dae4843faf_176d162349f5a48bbf06cb4 d6eb12ce912066a1f.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1453x828/e1833cb3_1bf5_494c_8b49_6ddbd581fcae_8a74b5c7f1ec175f5cdd2b0 3903c737131f3c79b.jpeg

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I can’t think of one instance where a QF mainline pilot has been critical or thrown barbs at network / Cobram ect take your pick.
You must be new here.

[MaxHelixAngle]

The amount of misinformation here is astounding.

BeerBaron has knocked it on the head and is 100% correct.

As for all those whinging about QF pilots being told there will be LWOP opportunities - why shouldn’t they get first look in? Qantas is the customer here, and it is on the back of Qantas group demand that these opportunities have arisen. Qantas, have, and rightly so, asked that their stood down employees are given the opportunity to be considered. Alliance has agreed.

As for Stand down and IR law - barking up the wrong tree. In fact forest. LWOP opportunities will have no bearing on any future litigation - except perhaps in the court of public opinion.

[ruprecht]

You must be new here.
Surely a “skygod” comment can’t be too far away. :rolleyes:

[galdian]

Will that be before or after the "influx of QF pilots will pollute the Alliance culture" comment? :):) ;)

[TinFoilhat2]

Qantas are paying for the introduction into service of the E-Jets. Not Alliance. Its a deal like with the 717s. The aircraft are owned by Qantas but operated by the contractor.

So because of this Qantas gets to decide who flys them. Not Alliance and not whingers about fairness on PPrune. Its a business decision Qantas has made.

The fact that the E-Jet seats will be available for Qantas mainline pilots, has been confirmed in an email by the current Qantas chief pilot.

The email says the endorsement costs will be covered by Alliance, but in reality QF will pay Alliance for this as well.

So the question is, why would QF do this ? Its not from the goodness of their heart. Its so they can keep the majority of the longhaul pilots stood down indefinitely without redundancy provisions applying.

At some point in the next 3-5 years, where mainline pilots are still stood down, but Network, Cobham and Alliance pilots are flying full lines and being paid their full salaries, somebody will challenge the refusal of QF to pay redundancy packages in court. The challenge being that those stood down pilots are actually redundant under the fair work act (they are actually redundant right now TBF)

That court case will fail if the complaining pilot can be proven to be have been 'offered' a position in another 'group company'.

Now my bet is the location of the E-Jet slots will be in places that are not popular with existing pilots who are settled with their families - say Darwin or Cairns - so the majority will not be taken up.

Last point again - QF will own these jets and will decide who flys them. In the same way they decided that mainline pilots could not fly for JQ or Network. This time they have decided otherwise.

QF do not own the E-Jets, they are all owned by Alliance and Alliance will dictate who flies them. There is simply a wet lease agreement between Alliance and QF. I can promise you now, no long haul QF pilot will get a seat over another qualified (especially type rated) pilot knowing their intention is to return to Qantas.

It is no different to the setup in the States where companies like Republic and SkyWest fly for the mainline carriers. The regionals crew their own planes, mainline pays fuel but salaries are lower due to scope of aircraft size.

Alliance will do what benefits them, not Qantas.

[cynphil]

TinFoilhat2...quote....
I can promise you now, no long haul QF pilot will get a seat over another qualified (especially type rated) pilot knowing their intention is to return to Qantas.

.Making a promise that you have no ability to make.....unless you’re speaking for Alliance management....which you are not!!

[TinFoilhat2]

You must be new here.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[TinFoilhat2]

The amount of misinformation here is astounding.

BeerBaron has knocked it on the head and is 100% correct.

As for all those whinging about QF pilots being told there will be LWOP opportunities - why shouldn’t they get first look in? Qantas is the customer here, and it is on the back of Qantas group demand that these opportunities have arisen. Qantas, have, and rightly so, asked that their stood down employees are given the opportunity to be considered. Alliance has agreed.

As for Stand down and IR law - barking up the wrong tree. In fact forest. LWOP opportunities will have no bearing on any future litigation - except perhaps in the court of public opinion.

Which part of WET LEASE AGREEMENT do you not understand? QF WILL NOT get to dictate to another company who flies their aircraft. Alliance will crew the aircraft how they see fit and QF will have no say and like it.

As a customer if I charter a QF jet I dont get to dictate terms in who flies the jet or how they conduct their MX. The same applies here. Alliance are doing work on behalf of Qantas, thereby helping them out. Its not to say a QF pilot cannot apply for a job but they will not get special privileges or assistance due to being a QF pilot, that much is clear!!

If QF do not like the arrangement they can get somebody else to do their regional flying. Clearly they do like the arrangement as they stuck with Alliance who are profitable and doing well.

Why would Alliance agree to crew aircraft with QF mainline international pilots, pay for training costs knowing full well they will return when their furlough exile ends and a seat opens up back in QF only for Alliance to have to hire a new pilot, pay for trianing (sim/flights/hotels) which is now double the initial cost, short answer they wont!!

Alliance will run their company as they see fit, crew their aircraft as they see fit. I realise the QF skygods are better than all of us mere mortals and it will come as a shock as to why Alliance does not beg them to fly their planes but in this instance they will be at the back of the queue.

[Kaboobla]

Tinfoil

What you say makes sense. Except the impetus for this is not from AIPA or from any mainline pilot.

It is from public statements by Gissing and an email from QF the chief pilot which says (and I quote directly) :

"Importantly, this flying will only commence once all our 737 pilots are stood up. The timing will depend on the rate of recovery in travel demand but is currently expected to start in June 2021. However if we experience more border closures which impacts our projected stand ups, then we have flexibility to delay the commencement of the Alliance flights. Alliance is keen to also provide opportunities for Qantas pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s, particularly with international markets expected to take several years to fully recover. Alliance will cover training costs for successful applicants. We will send through details on this opportunity separately in the coming weeks "

Now I agree with you who knows what will happen. But these guys are not going to be saying any of this unless they believe it to be true. Because they dont need to. Its quite likely there will be backpedaling and a change of tune on all this later.

I realise this is upsetting for you and probably you feel you are going to be professionally effected. But ever since 1989 the entire history of pilots employment in the country has been one group getting ahead at the expense of others. Thats how it works in this part of the world unfortunately.

The training cost argument you lay out is logical, but again not an issue as I have it on good authority that QF will reimburse Alliance for any endorsement costs involved when a seconded pilot joins them and if in the future that pilot leaves.

So they wont be at the back of the queue. They will be at the front. And I am betting that if and when you get to fly with one of them you will find that the guy or girl sitting next to you is just like everyone else you work with.

At least in Qantas we dont overnight sleep in an aircraft with the APU running because we didn't get a hotel room and then exhaust all the fuel on board resulting in the fuel system needing to be re-primed before the aircraft's next flight.

[TinFoilhat2]

Tinfoil

What you say makes sense. Except the impetus for this is not from AIPA or from any mainline pilot.

It is from public statements by Gissing and an email from QF the chief pilot which says (and I quote directly) :

"Importantly, this flying will only commence once all our 737 pilots are stood up. The timing will depend on the rate of recovery in travel demand but is currently expected to start in June 2021. However if we experience more border closures which impacts our projected stand ups, then we have flexibility to delay the commencement of the Alliance flights. Alliance is keen to also provide opportunities for Qantas pilots and cabin crew to operate the E190s, particularly with international markets expected to take several years to fully recover. Alliance will cover training costs for successful applicants. We will send through details on this opportunity separately in the coming weeks "

Now I agree with you who knows what will happen. But these guys are not going to be saying any of this unless they believe it to be true. Because they dont need to. Its quite likely there will be backpedaling and a change of tune on all this later.

I realise this is upsetting for you and probably you feel you are going to be professionally effected. But ever since 1989 the entire history of pilots employment in the country has been one group getting ahead at the expense of others. Thats how it works in this part of the world unfortunately.

The training cost argument you lay out is logical, but again not an issue as I have it on good authority that QF will reimburse Alliance for any endorsement costs involved when a seconded pilot joins them and if in the future that pilot leaves.

So they wont be at the back of the queue. They will be at the front. And I am betting that if and when you get to fly with one of them you will find that the guy or girl sitting next to you is just like everyone else you work with.

At least in Qantas we dont overnight sleep in an aircraft with the APU running because we didn't get a hotel room and then exhaust all the fuel on board resulting in the fuel system needing to be re-primed before the aircraft's next flight.

First of all Im sure the QF pilots are decent people, I was just having a crack, no offence intended. It is a different situation if QF are paying for all of their training costs but ultimately the decision still lies with Alliance as to whether they take them on or not.

Im sure if QF pays to train up all of these crews then yes, they will take some of their crew until they return to Qantas. Of course as you correctly point out there most likely will be some back peddling at some stage, this is aviation so Im sure no-one will be surprised by that.

However ultimately Alliance will have the final say on everything and rightly so. Of course business and making money will dictate those decisions which they will have to live with and justify. I do know type rated E-Jet 190 pilots are highly sort after at present because they literally have no E-Jet pilots in Alliance and CASA does not want green on green flying together if it can be avoided, that I have on good authority.

Im not sure how many E-jet pilots are or have returned from the US but for 30 jets their simply will not be enough type rated guys and gals.

[morno]

At least in Qantas we dont overnight sleep in an aircraft with the APU running because we didn't get a hotel room and then exhaust all the fuel on board resulting in the fuel system needing to be re-primed before the aircraft's next flight.

You just made yourself look like a completely stuck up doosh.

Who are you referring to?

[Kaboobla]

PM Sent to you Morno.

[Icarus2001]

Kaboobla, either a good wind up or you cannot read. No one is leasing the Ejets, they were purchased by Alliance/Bravo. If you believe the ASX release to be wrong then report it to ACCC.

Also...UYW
Manufacturer:

EMBRAER - EMPRESA BRASILEIRA DE AERONAUTICA S.A.
Model:

ERJ 190-100 IGW
Serial number:

19000174
No of engines:

2
Aircraft first registered in Australia:

24 December 2020
Year of manufacture:

2008
Registration holder:

BRAVO AIRLINES PTY LIMITED PO Box 1126 EAGLE FARM QLD 4009 Australia
Registration holder commencement date:

24 December 2020
Registered operator:

ALLIANCE AIRLINES PTY LIMITED 81 Pandanus Ave EAGLE FARM QLD 4009 Australia
Registered operator commencement date:

24 December 2020

[MaxHelixAngle]

I realise the QF skygods are better than all of us mere mortals and it will come as a shock as to why Alliance does not beg them to fly their planes but in this instance they will be at the back of the queue.
Why the chip on your shoulder? It's even more abhorrent in present times.

I can promise you now, no long haul QF pilot will get a seat over another qualified (especially type rated) pilot knowing their intention is to return to Qantas.
Haha. How can you make this statement when public disclosures from Alliance say otherwise, AND as posted on here, comments from the Qantas CP show that stood down QF crew will get a look in?

I understand wet leasing, thanks! Re-read BeerBaron and my post. Alliance has not said they will fly with QF crew but have agreed to give stood down QF crew a look in and won't levy any training costs. This would have been an agreement reached between QF and Alliance during negotiations over the contract (a contract that will impact Alliances turnover by more than 5%!).

TinFoilHat2 - your posts are a bit of a joke.

[TinFoilhat2]

Why the chip on your shoulder? It's even more abhorrent in present times.


Haha. How can you make this statement when public disclosures from Alliance say otherwise, AND as posted on here, comments from the Qantas CP show that stood down QF crew will get a look in?

I understand wet leasing, thanks! Re-read BeerBaron and my post. Alliance has not said they will fly with QF crew but have agreed to give stood down QF crew a look in and won't levy any training costs. This would have been an agreement reached between QF and Alliance during negotiations over the contract (a contract that will impact Alliances turnover by more than 5%!).

TinFoilHat2 - your posts are a bit of a joke.

Im pretty sure you dont understand wet leasing as you have clearly demonstrated. Alliance are targeting type rated guys first over anyone, I have that on good authority (whether you believe me or not, I dont care). This includes over ANY and ALL QF staff, long or short haul. If it comes down to a type rated E-Jet pilot and a QF A380 pilot I can promise you now the QF pilot will be disappointed!!

[slice]

Might be a few ex Virgin 330 and 777 crew with E-jet ratings available. Virgin getting rid of the E-jets was one of the many many poor decisions made by management over the past decade. Ironic now they are back in even greater numbers.😳

[Kaboobla]

Im pretty sure you dont understand wet leasing as you have clearly demonstrated. Alliance are targeting type rated guys first over anyone, I have that on good authority (whether you believe me or not, I dont care). This includes over ANY and ALL QF staff, long or short haul. If it comes down to a type rated E-Jet pilot and a QF A380 pilot I can promise you now the QF pilot will be disappointed!!

Who is your source and on what authority - because unless its very senior management of Alliance, and by that I dont mean flight ops management pilots - then what you have been told is wrong.

Confirmed today (again) that QF pilots as direct entry captains will occur.

[Icarus2001]

Kaboobla but you did not answer the purchase versus lease issue.

[aussieflyboy]

Confirmed today (again) that QF pilots as direct entry captains will occur.

Grub of a company if they do that to their own long term hard working Captains and/or FOs who would deserve the upgrades.

[Climb150]

You can cry all you want that Alliance has the final say in who it hired. Unless of course you have a client willing to give you millions of dollars worth of work over a long period. This changes the rules and don't forget Qantas owns just under 20% so I think they have a big say.

[TinFoilhat2]

Who is your source and on what authority - because unless its very senior management of Alliance, and by that I dont mean flight ops management pilots - then what you have been told is wrong.

Confirmed today (again) that QF pilots as direct entry captains will occur.

It is somebody very senior, obviously I can not mention names. Forget flight ops in this regard. First and foremost are type rated E-Jet pilots, no ifs no buts!! Im sure somewhere down the line QF pilots will get a look in but the final decision lies with Alliance and they wont be screwing over their own pilots in the process either...

A lot of F100 pilots are not actually interested in doing a new type rating and are happy where they are but Alliance pilots will definitely get a look in before QF pilots. VA E-jet pilots will and have already been hired in some capacity, especially trainers ho are presently in the sim as we speak.

[brokenagain]

Imagine how much ‘back at Qantas we did it like this’ there will be? Will the ego’s fit in such a small cockpit?

[TinFoilhat2]

Imagine how much ‘back at Qantas we did it like this’ there will be? Will the ego’s fit in such a small cockpit?

One can only imagine!

[Beer Baron]

TinFoilhat2 I can’t imagine why you show such venom toward Qantas pilots you have never met but I guess that is your own issue.

No one is suggesting that type rated pilots will not be employed, or that internal candidates will not be offered positions, simply that QF pilots will also be offered positions. There will be plenty of jobs across the dozen aircraft and no one group will land all the spots.

Money talks and to suggest that Qantas, with a bag full of cash, will have their request ignored indicates you don’t understand how a business works.

I’m sure when the day comes and an ex-Virgin pilot flies with an ex-Qantas pilot they will both be mature enough to hear the other remark about how a certain procedure was done at their previous company without getting their knickers in a twist. It is a shame that some on here can’t see past petty rivalries.

[dr dre]

Imagine how much ‘back at Qantas we did it like this’ there will be? Will the ego’s fit in such a small cockpit?

Plenty of mainline pilots in the last decade have taken leaves of absence for periods of years at airlines all over the world. Last I heard all them managed to integrate into those various flight decks quite easily.

You could insert any airline but especially the RAAF into "back at xxx we did it like this" quite easily too. Some who have spent a long time in one organisation, especially one that becomes such a big part of your life, can have some unshakeable attitudes. But considering mainline pilots have done LWOP periods everywhere from freight to ME to Asia to other Aus airlines I can't see there being too much of an issue with their attitudes adapting to an E-Jet, especially since most would've had two years out of the flight deck and be grateful for the opportunity to fly.

[C441]

Imagine how much ‘back at Qantas we did it like this’ there will be? Will the ego’s fit in such a small cockpit?
Back when Australian Airlines (the blue one) and Qantas (International) merged, I can't recall too many Qantas Pilots going over to the 737 and saying "We did it this way". Indeed it did not take too long for both groups of pilots to get together and take the best bits of both operations and merge them into a standard set of operational procedures.
Personally, as a commuting 767 pilot, I would often sit on the 737 jump-seat thinking "Why don't we do that?" and only occasionally wondering why they did something different to our 767 procedure. If I asked, it would usually be pointed out that particular procedure is critical in one circumstance but not so in others, but logically applied as a SOP for any occurrence.

Yes, a few Boeing pilots did transfer to the Airbus fleets and wanted to Boeing-ise them. They were largely unsuccessful.:)

Most Qantas Pilots going to Alliance will be happy to have a job and a new type to learn. You'll obviously be very surprised that the average Qantas pilot is just like most other pilots; proud of having achieved an airline job but humble and ready to learn.

[ruprecht]

Won’t it be a shock when a QF and an Alliance pilot share a cockpit and they find out that they actually have a lot in common...

[CFD]

Advert today for type rated E190 Captains and First Officers bases DWN and ADL. Application to include confirmation type rated on E190, when you last flew E190 and base preference.

[Transition Layer]

Can we ask about the coin they’re offering for E190 Capts and FOs?

[dr dre]

Alliance EBAs for Qld and SA F100 available on the FWC website (https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae503150.pdf) show a base rate of $154k for Captains and $106k for FOs. Productivity bonus above 55/57hrs and some other allowances as well. Similar to the award.

Given award rates for F100 and 717 are similar I can’t think of E-Jet rates being substantially more.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

We’re resigning ourselves to accepting the award are we? I think you’ll find the 717 contract is closer to $200k for captains.

[dr dre]

It is, but it ain’t Cobham employing the pilots this time. I can’t see Alliance offering substantially more pay to fly a 94 seat E190 than a 100 seat F100.

[bangbounceboeing]

They can offer whatever they feel like and still have a queue a mile long around the corner

[smiling monkey]

They can offer whatever they feel like and still have a queue a mile long around the corner

Really? Just how many type rated and current E190 pilots are there in Australia?

[Transition Layer]

Those numbers are somewhat underwhelming!

Plenty of stood down QF drivers are finding jobs in other industries paying 6 figures. The opportunity is a great one for some QF people but it may make more sense to use the time diversifying and learning new skills than continue in aviation earning that sort of money. We all love to fly but at what price?

[itchy_feet]

Really? Just how many type rated and current E190 pilots are there in Australia?

E190, you could probably count them on 2 hands! E170 on the other hand a few more to the mix plus all the unemployed folks that went to the US.