Cessna 150 Aerobat spinning characteristics

[A37575]

Cessna 150 Aerobat spin characteristics. An incident occured where two pilots were carrying out spinning in a Cessna 150 Aerobat. After a six turn spin the spin flattened out with the nose rising to the horizon during the spin.

Standard recovery action had no effect. The two pilots then tried moving their seats forward and backward as far as possible to try and rock the aircraft to get the nose down. This technique had the desired effect and the nose dropped to nearly vertical as in a normal spin. Recovery action was then effective.
Two very shaken pilots,

Have any readers experienced similar incidents in the Cessna 150 Aerobat? Would the 'flattening' of the spin only happen after six turns or could this occur any time a spin is started on this type? In fact should it occur at all assuming the aircraft is correctly rigged?

[djpil]

Over the years I’ve had discussions with many pilots, including instructors, who have had scares in spinning aeroplanes.

As for Cessnas, everyone who spins them should be very familiar with this document https://www.kevincfi.com/files/pdf/manuals/Cessna/Spin%20Characteristics%20of%20Cessnas.pdf

[Pugilistic Animus]

Over the years I’ve had discussions with many pilots, including instructors, who have had scares in spinning aeroplanes.

As for Cessnas, everyone who spins them should be very familiar with this document https://www.kevincfi.com/files/pdf/manuals/Cessna/Spin%20Characteristics%20of%20Cessnas.pdf
Djpil that document is basically describing the PARE method but (for the C150 Aerobat) what do you think of the Beggs-Muller technique for spin recovery in that particular airplane? I'm not sure if I spelled it right lol

[djpil]

It is definitely worthwhile reading what Gene Beggs thinks about spinning and he (with Bill Kershner) has some relevant info about the Cessna 150.

[Goldenrivett]

Djpil that document is basically describing the PARE method but (for the C150 Aerobat) what do you think of the Beggs-Muller technique for spin recovery in that particular airplane? I'm not sure if I spelled it right lol

There was a good discussion in Instructors and Examiners 2008.
https://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/326378-standard-spin-recovery-2.html

[Pugilistic Animus]

Gentleman those links were excellent....I have my question answered. Thanks to you both. Djpil and Golden rivet... I'm quite surprised about the hands free opposite rudder won't work in the Aerobat.

[Capn Bug Smasher]

I am but a sprog pilot compared to the giants in this thread -

- but why would anyone suggest trying to recover from a spin without firmly inducing nose-down pitch - ?

I can't really see any advantage to stick-free, rudder-only recovery technique aside from eliminating the possibility of pro-spin adverse yaw, and I would think the importance of getting the nose down and reducing the angle of attack is greater than the risk of accidentally applying pro-spin aileron.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The school I used to teach at had a C150 Aerobat and the other instructor who helped me out with aerobatic instruction had a spin go flat on him. It was a turbulent day and he things a bump caused the aircraft to pitch up just as it was departing into the spin. It settled into a very rapid rotation with the nose level and normal anti spin control outputs were not effective. He recovered by applying full power and full down elevator and full into spin rudder. The aircraft transitioned into a conventional spin mode and he reduced power to idle and made a normal spin recovery.

The take away is just because the airplane was docile for 1000 spins doesn't mean it won't bite on spin 1001 and if he had not been an aerobatic rated pilot he and his student probably would have died. This reinforces my contention that instructors who are not competent aerobatic pilots should not be deliberately spinning airplanes..

[RVF750]

That reminds me of the power off oversteer on the Peugeot 205 GTi.turn in,lift off and power on when it pointed to the exit. Lovely except for that one time it would depart. it explains why the 309GTi (same car with 4" more width and an added boot) had half the insurance costs...

Very interesting and enjoyable thread. Done many a spin on the 150/152 and Aerobat too. Long ago.....