CX Coming battle - Reality check

[planeur]

Gents. Battle isn't coming. Sabre rattling isn't battle; it never was.

Pre dating the 49ers was the often conveniently forgotten FAU Strike of '93. I was on the 'perfume picket line' outside company HQ at Kai Tak. The major crew industrial action that hugely impacted CX operations and very nearly brought the company to heel. At the time the pilots were also unhappy (talking of industrial action even in those days). As the strike action initially and effectively crippled operations there were rumours of the pilots belatedly joining the strike. With the pilots involved, the result would have most likely been very different.

Everyone was asking: "When will the pilots join, where are they?" For their own reasons (which of course can easily be guessed) they didn't engage; the rest is history gentlemen, its that simple. The company used all the usual fear tactics to successfully divide the FAU membership and crush the strike; amongst the fallout being terminations, disciplinary, colleague turned against colleague, yes ugly.

The main fallout though was that the company literally snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and in doing so knew that the the pilots would never take any meaningful industrial action. Armed with that knowledge the company has acted accordingly down the years. So don't allow your senior members telling you of previous valiant battles, it was only ever hot air with a little work to rule (contractual - zero risk - are we getting the picture, thrown in)

To effect change you sometimes have to risk something. For the youngsters - that's up to you and no shame if you don't as the whole tapestry of the industry has changed and precedents have been set.

Credit of course due to the 49ers but by then as you've read above, the company knew it could do as it pleased with just the normal sabre rattling. It was too late then and it has been ever since. At the one time when the universe was aligned in their favour, the Cathay pilots shied away and failed to engage.

Disappointed

Planeur
(Ex CX Kai Tak picket line)

P.S. Good luck to all CX staff in these difficult times.

[wongsuzie]

I remember the '93 Cabin crew 'strike'.

Many didn't want to join and sneaked to work bypassing the picket line.

Among the CC fraternity lot of friendships ended.

[planeur]

I remember the '93 Cabin crew 'strike'.

Many didn't want to join and sneaked to work bypassing the picket line.

Among the CC fraternity lot of friendships ended.

The vast majority of crew started and supported the strike action. A minority circumvented picket lines and were able to crew a some flights. Fear followed as disciplinary action and bullying was rife. After a few weeks the trickle of strike breakers increased as fear set in as the strike slowly crumbled without support from pilots. Yes, obviously some friendships ended (I mentioned that) A lot has been previously written including university case studies which makes interesting reading. But I feel you've missed the point; If there was a time for the pilots to act, '93 was it and they didn't. Since then the management knew the pilot 'spineset' and acted accordingly. Not so ancient history.

P

[Sam Ting Wong]

Nevermind fighting, we vote down contract improvements these days.

[Piet Lood]

The broken record strikes again.
STW, if you insist on repeating your same old message again and again, I’ll repeat the majority’s response again and again:
Clause 7 would have rendered those “improvements” useless the day after the vote and we wouldn’t have been better off than we are now. On the contrary.

Now you are going to tell me that I don’t know that, but neither do you and that doesn’t seem to stop you from repeating the same old ****e ad infinitum.

[cxorcist]

Nevermind fighting, we vote down contract improvements these days.
Get over it already! You are the whiniest baby in CX. I swear it is all you talk about, here and on the flight deck. Get a life. Grow a pair. You don’t like the CX pilot group and how they vote? Leave or man up and lead with your “better” ideas. Next time we fly together (which hopefully is never), I’m done being nice. You are the worst. You don’t deserve to sit in that RHS. I would rather fly with the fake, no nothing, baby pilots on CoS18 than share space with you.

[Samsonite]

Really Clause 7?? The one that is exactly the same as most western worlds labour laws. So we want a Western World contract but we dont want to abide by their kind of laws. Good luck of every getting a contract with that kind of mentality.

[highflyer40]

Get over it already! You are the whiniest baby in CX. I swear it is all you talk about, here and on the flight deck. Get a life. Grow a pair. You don’t like the CX pilot group and how they vote? Leave or man up and lead with your “better” ideas. Next time we fly together (which hopefully is never), I’m done being nice. You are the worst. You don’t deserve to sit in that RHS. I would rather fly with the fake, no nothing, baby pilots on CoS18 than share space with you.

lWow. You sound like fun to fly with! Anyone on CoS18 should treat you like a god should they. What a piece of work you are. You are a perfect example of why CX should die a death and be reborn in the ashes as a Phoenix.

[cxorcist]

lWow. You sound like fun to fly with! Anyone on CoS18 should treat you like a god should they. What a piece of work you are. You are a perfect example of why CX should die a death and be reborn in the ashes as a Phoenix.
Perhaps you misunderstand the job, mine isn’t to be “fun” for you to fly with. Grow up... This isn’t a Harry Potter fantasy for you. People have lives and families affected by this. Your pipe dream is immature and irrelevant.

[Progress Wanchai]

Really Clause 7?? The one that is exactly the same as most western worlds labour laws. So we want a Western World contract but we dont want to abide by their kind of laws. Good luck of every getting a contract with that kind of mentality.

Which was the very concern with Clause 7. It was designed to be used in conjunction with first world labor laws in agreements with unions who have the power to negotiate collective agreements. In Hong Kong there is no collective bargaining, we’re all on individual contracts and the local labor laws don’t support first world agreements.

That’s not to say Clause 7 should have been a deal breaker. It simply should have been explained better and adjusted as required to better represent the reality of Hong Kong’s labor laws and a skeptical pilot body who’d seen colleagues sacked when the company used contractural loop holes. Unfortunately we were dealing with a DFO and GMA who were never here in 2001. Our rotational management policy is why this company routinely fails to learn from its mistakes nor understand the mindset of those that suffered as a result of the mistakes.

That being said, we can argue hypotheticals all day, and I will. I’d suggest we’d hardly be worse off today if we’d voted in TA16.

[Fat_Dumb_and_Unhappy]

Perhaps you misunderstand the job, mine isn’t to be “fun” for you to fly with. Grow up... This isn’t a Harry Potter fantasy for you. People have lives and families affected by this. Your pipe dream is immature and irrelevant.

You are absolutely correct that your job isn't to be "fun" to fly with, but it is your job to manage a coherent team and fostering an effective environment for task sharing, threat and error management...etc Quite frankly you sound like someone who seems to think it's a single pilot operation and loses the crew from the very minute you show up at dispatch.
There's no doubt that experience in the cockpit is vital for safety, but I would say it's equally dangerous when you have a senior pilot who shows nothing but utter contempt to junior crew, the type of cockpit gradient that results in no-one willing to engage in the operation and speak up.

I was told a long time ago that part of the assessment process of selecting pilots was an easy thought process of "Can I sit next to this person for 6+ hours?". Judging by your comments on here and your attitude towards junior crew, I can only assume that years of cx have soured your character, or that you were an excellent actor.

[JMock]

Fatty has a point

[wongsuzie]

from DimSum daily.Cathay Pacific to reduce salary for employees across the board between 20%-30% tomorrow

https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/cathay-pacific-to-reduce-salary-for-employees-across-the-board-between-20-30-tomorrow/?fbclid=IwAR0HMIYVZU_UnblLb3AlVLTcEWL4wqIBvEg9DiRFHP0VB-L1IJq09AH_SbA

[Slasher1]

Fatty has a point

Unless a persons' postings involved direct and very personal public attacks on someone (which I think never appropriate) one of the last things I'd do is draw character conclusions from the musings of a person in a semi-anonymous Internet forum. One way or another. All you can get is some ideas that might be running through an individuals mind at the time and it doesn't even need to be real.

[mngmt mole]

Interesting, but there is a notable upwards percentage change in daily pax counts through the worlds airports. Although still painfully small numbers, there is a definite trend towards much healthier passenger counts. It would seem to me that the opportune moment for CX to attack their staff is coming to an end. The change is exponential in nature, so I predict a reasonable recovery by years end. Probably the end of next year however before we are back to relatively "normal" numbers. I am sure CX will be restoring any cuts they impose at that time. :rolleyes:

[highflyer40]

Interesting, but there is a notable upwards percentage change in daily pax counts through the worlds airports. Although still painfully small numbers, there is a definite trend towards much healthier passenger counts. It would seem to me that the opportune moment for CX to attack their staff is coming to an end. The change is exponential in nature, so I predict a reasonable recovery by years end. Probably the end of next year however before we are back to relatively "normal" numbers. I am sure CX will be restoring any cuts they impose at that time. :rolleyes:

The world will just be starting it’s second lockdown in September. Relaxing it again in November and then starting it up again in January. This won’t even be close to normality by the years end. My own opinion of course.

[8driver]

The world will just be starting it’s second lockdown in September. Relaxing it again in November and then starting it up again in January. This won’t even be close to normality by the years end. My own opinion of course.

If we lock down again we have learned nothing from this economic disaster. I think there are large portions of the world's population who won't have the stomach for two or three more doses of "the cure". Test and trace, protect the at risk populations. Take this time to develop a better plan for the fall.

[Pilot_Recruit]

Agreed. Money talks and people are losing boat loads of it at the moment. Eventually life will carry on regardless of Covid, because people need to eat. The governments can't keep printing money forever so life and the economy will go on.

[Threethirty]

The operation was successful but the patient is dead. Time to get some common sense in place instead of this virus mania madness

[mngmt mole]

There will be no second lockdown. Most population centers are thoroughly fed up with being dictated to by people who have usually proven themselves incompetent at running everything and anything. Trying to lock down people and business's a second time would see a much different response from those affected. Especially in the USA. Perhaps here in the UK the Govt would have more success, as most of the citizens have taken on the qualities of sheep...so who knows.

[Slasher1]

There will be no second lockdown. Most population centers are thoroughly fed up with being dictated to by people who have usually proven themselves incompetent at running everything and anything. Trying to lock down people and business's a second time would see a much different response from those affected. Especially in the USA. Perhaps here in the UK the Govt would have more success, as most of the citizens have taken on the qualities of sheep...so who knows.

This is completely true. Won't happen again (and shouldn't have happened in the first place but I think some folks got suckered in at the incipient stages and perhaps others didn't realize the true malice of some officials and their agendas; perhaps some millennials who've had their eyes opened). However, I don't think discretionary income is going to rebound real soon nor do I think anyone's going to be breaking down the doors to get on cruise ships or airplanes--especially going to foreign lands where governments act differently than their home nation--for awhile.

[JMock]

dunno Slash, I can think of a cast of thousands who would be keen to get on an ‘airplane’ to escape from their own government’s Covid cockup

[Asturias56]

"Most population centers are thoroughly fed up with being dictated to by people who have usually proven themselves incompetent"

i think you are wrong - most people want the lock-downs to continue as long as possible - some say until there is a vaccine. it's governments who want to open the gates and get business (and tax) flowing again

[highflyer40]

"Most population centers are thoroughly fed up with being dictated to by people who have usually proven themselves incompetent"

i think you are wrong - most people want the lock-downs to continue as long as possible - some say until there is a vaccine. it's governments who want to open the gates and get business (and tax) flowing again

I would have to agree. Here in the U.K. I think the majority would prefer the lockdown to continue. Just my opinion but then in a recent poll 81% of parents who’s kids are due to go back to school June 1 have said they won’t be sending them back.

Neighbour who has been working from home for the past 2 months has was told to report back to the office on Monday. He told them to get stuffed and is continuing to work from home.

[raven11]

The media have managed to do something never before done in history — Frighten people enough to shut down the world economy, and put more people out of work than ever before, for a virus that if contracted has a 99% recovery rate for people under 80 years old, or for those with an underlying medical condition. Rather than protect those groups that are vulnerable and continue to function using social distancing, good hygiene and common sense — we’ll sacrifice our existence.

Stay shut down until there is a vaccine? There’s still no vaccine for SARS, or H1N1, bird flue, or last years flue. And what do we do next year when a different virus comes along, continue to shut down until there’s a miracle cure for that virus too? And what do we do the year after that?

It’s like Mark Twain said, it’s easier to fool some people than it is to convince them that they’ve been fooled.

[Sam Ting Wong]

LIBERATE CATHAY!

[wongsuzie]

But,but there is no vaccine for SARS,H1NI and yearly flu jab is just a shot in the dark.

Why everyone pinning hopes on a covid vaccine?.

[FlyingNun]

But,but there is no vaccine for SARS,H1NI and yearly flu jab is just a shot in the dark.

Why everyone pinning hopes on a covid vaccine?.

Because all of the above were, somewhat, local events. Covid19 is very much international an has changed the world as we know it.
Thats why every man and his dog are working on a vaccine/ drug/ treatment.

[buster57]

Even charging $1 per dose for an effective vaccine times the world's population = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. That makes the bean counters happy.