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Paul Rice
10th May 2020, 19:30
In his television broadcast at 1900 BST Sunday 10 May 2020 Boris Johnson said "you should go to work if you cannot work from home". Does this instruction from the Prime Minister mean that working within general aviation should now recommence with immediate effect.

Can professional work teaching students for their PPL, CPL, and IRs recommence if mitigation measures are put in place to prevent the spread of COVID-19 as far as is reasonably practical. Cleaning and decontamination of aeroplanes use of face masks and perhaps screens between the instructor and student such as seen in supermarkets and pharmacies ?

Does the instruction from the Prime Minister to return to work over turn the CAA's blanket ban on GA ?

People have been told that they should return to work were they cannot work from home but have been instructed to avoid public transport were possible. On the odd rare occasion were a light aeroplane might be feasibly be used to commute longer distances within the UK for work purposes this would seen to be in the spirit of the instruction namely both going to work which we are told we should do and also avoids public transport which we should try and do were possible.

Can a PPL pilot working towards a CPL recommence hour building i.e they are a professional student working towards a professional qualification remaining socially distant and avoiding public transport.

Is it now time to responsibly get GA going again ?

SWBKCB
10th May 2020, 19:40
Does the instruction from the Prime Minister to return to work over turn the CAA's blanket ban on GA ?

Er, no - the previous guidance stands until it's replaced. :ok:

nicolai
10th May 2020, 19:52
GA's been permitted in other European countries. A mate of mine in Amsterdam has been flying (light aircraft, solo pilot) every week or so since lockdowns started.

He's more socially distanced in the cockpit than on the ground!

Paul Rice
10th May 2020, 19:58
The instruction is to return to work were you cannot work from home and to avoid public transport were possible.

Flight instruction cannot take place at home and need not involve any public transport so hence is in full compliance with the most recent instruction from the Prime Minister.

As is some private flying of which some will be travel for business and professional reasons as opposed to recreation.

Although the instruction has only just been given the CAA are now lagging behind the Government.

It will of course be extremely challenging to mitigate the spread of the disease but stepping up to the challenge is better than rolling over and letting business die.

Meester proach
10th May 2020, 20:03
Hours building isn’t work, at the moment it’s fairly pointless recreation ( for five years ish )

SWBKCB
10th May 2020, 20:11
Although the instruction has only just been given the CAA are now lagging behind the Government.

That's because it's a conditional plan and not an instruction - so further guidance will be made available by the relevant department.

And to ensure you are safe at work we have been working to establish new guidance for employers to make workplaces COVID-secure.

autothrottle
10th May 2020, 20:11
Iíd say be careful and check CAA website tomorrow. True you canít work from home but you still need to socially distance which would be difficult in a C152 or PA28.

squidie
10th May 2020, 20:26
UK = Only mentions places of work plus exercises with people of your household only. So I see the current CAA guidance being in effect until later. Undoubtedly the CAA will come out with further guidance soon hopefully.

Weathergirly
10th May 2020, 20:44
The CAA will publish guidelines tomorrow. The advice from Central Government is that you can drive to other destinations and play sports, with family, observing social distancing.
As GA is a sport, our interpretation would be to get GA flying again, solo or with family. Instruction would be allowed with family only. Solo hour building would also be allowed.

squidie
10th May 2020, 20:54
The CAA will publish guidelines tomorrow. The advice from Central Government is that you can drive to other destinations and play sports, with family, observing social distancing.
As GA is a sport, our interpretation would be to get GA flying again, solo or with family. Instruction would be allowed with family only. Solo hour building would also be allowed.They stated you can travel or play sports with members of the same household. Also GA is either a job or a hobby, hardly a sport for the majority.

Herschel Krustofski
10th May 2020, 21:46
The law has not changed.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations 2020 never explicitly instructed Flying Schools to cease business.

However guidance from the CAA and DfT did. This is guidance and not legislation.

2 meter "social distancing" is appended with "if practical". For certain jobs and businesses 2 meters separateion will never be practical.

WHO guidlines for workplaces are very measured; emphasising good hand washing and cleaning protocols. They emphasise not coming into work when feeling unwell. There is also detail on protecting and providing information to the vulnerable.

squidie
10th May 2020, 21:53
The law has not changed.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations 2020 never explicitly instructed Flying Schools to cease business.

However guidance from the CAA and DfT did. This is guidance and not legislation.

2 meter "social distancing" is appended with "if practical". For certain jobs and businesses 2 meters separateion will never be practical.

WHO guidlines for workplaces are very measured; emphasising good hand washing and cleaning protocols. They emphasise not coming into work when feeling unwell. There is also detail on protecting and providing information to the vulnerable.There is going to have to be some common sense, you canít social distance in a C152...

Weathergirly
10th May 2020, 22:22
There will always be commentators that sit on opposing sides of the fence. For those that wish to remain grounded, what do you propose? What will it take to get solo flying back in the air?
GA is a sport, itís the most exercise I get, pushing the A/C to the pumps, in and out the hangar, cleaning, pre flight etc etc.
Lets be positive in these challenging times and letís get things moving in a safe and considered manner.

covec
10th May 2020, 22:34
Can we restart instructing in Scotland then? OK to pop into Club? Start catching up on existing students records etc?

VariablePitchP
10th May 2020, 23:19
There will always be commentators that sit on opposing sides of the fence. For those that wish to remain grounded, what do you propose? What will it take to get solo flying back in the air?
GA is a sport, itís the most exercise I get, pushing the A/C to the pumps, in and out the hangar, cleaning, pre flight etc etc.
Lets be positive in these challenging times and letís get things moving in a safe and considered manner.

Not sure being physical makes it a sport, exercise yes but not sport. GA is definitely a hobby. If you can now drive to a lake, is there really any harm in being at the lake but in a washing machine orbiting overhead?

towrope
11th May 2020, 00:39
Here in N California on any given day FlightAware will show a huge amount of GA traffic. Way more than before. You can tell also just by being outdoors and listening. Lately there has been some formation flying in my area with one or more Nanchangs and accompanying hotshot single engine GA types. I'm always too late getting out there with the camera.

UV
11th May 2020, 03:26
Not sure being physical makes it a sport, exercise yes but not sport. GA is definitely a hobby.

You have to recognise Gliding and Parachuting as a sport...

West Coast
11th May 2020, 04:35
GA is a sport

What falls under the umbrella of GA in your neck of the woods?

Air ambulance, a corporate jet, single engine cargo, etc.

SMT Member
11th May 2020, 05:57
Never seen so much GA activity around this place. I live close to CPH, and the GA community have certainly embraced the lack of commercial traffic, and are seen several times a day entering the control zone and overflying the airport. Heck, the other day they towed a vintage glider up from one of the runways, and a few weeks ago a pair of hot air balloons were launched just outside the airport, and were allowed to fly over as low as they wanted "as long as you don't touch". We also had one of the army helicopters hover right next to the tower, exchanging pleasantries; I suppose ATC are just happy to have someone to talk to.

Also seen loads of gliders on Flight radar. Maybe not more than normal, but due to the lack of commercial traffic they are now showing up.

In other words, no GA restrictions in this neck of the wood. And why would there be?

Herschel Krustofski
11th May 2020, 08:40
Can we restart instructing in Scotland then? OK to pop into Club? Start catching up on existing students records etc?

As the law is written, yes, this has always been the case.

BigEndBob
11th May 2020, 10:18
Problem i see will the airports open. If they open there is no excuse for clubs to not start flying.
The airport i work on they could have kept staff on and redecorate the place, not close down for furlough money.
Sport i would have thought is defined as an activity were some competition and winning is involved, so other than air racing, flying light aircraft is not a sport, it's a hobby.

The key is non essential work, flying light GA is not essential, but has that now changed as Boris said go to work if you can.
I can if others will let me.

NoelEvans
11th May 2020, 11:13
As so many are, in typical PPRuNe fashion, nit-picking about words and terms, could someone please provide me with a reference to ... the CAA's blanket ban on GA ?
Or are we going to be nit-picking about the difference between a 'recommendation' and a 'ban'?!!

Pilot DAR
11th May 2020, 14:28
Sport i would have thought is defined as an activity were some competition and winning is involved, so other than air racing, flying light aircraft is not a sport, it's a hobby.

An interpretation worth considering, though it casts the identity of a lot of cars and SUV's into question! I suppose the dealers could sell "hobby cars", 'seems fair!

The key is non essential work, flying light GA is not essential,

"GA" is too broad to allow an "essential" designation. I would agree that recreational flying is difficult to interpret as essential, though many other types of flying in "GA" aircraft may be essential. I flew three hours of forest fire spotting at the request of the Fire Chief week before last in my planes, the Chief thought my flying was essential. Otherwise, police and medivac are two other examples of essential GA flying.

In my opinion, within the bounds of national regulation, if a pilot can access and fly a plane recreationally while still respecting all requirements for social distancing, is it a problem? We pilots should certainly mentor each other to respect society, and regulation, but there's no need to take things to the extreme beyond what an interpretation may dictate. It's essential that people have an opportunity to maintain their mental health, and for some, hobby flying (or any other solitary hobby) may play a large role in that. For me; "live and let live" - literally!

White Knight
11th May 2020, 14:59
True you canít work from home but you still need to socially distance which would be difficult in a C152 or PA28.

Quite frankly I don't see a problem as long as you wear a face mask and don't snog your instructor!!! Common sense really isn't out and about much at the moment:ugh:

Deltasierra010
11th May 2020, 15:37
“Sport i would have thought is defined as an activity were some competition and winning is involved, so other than air racing, flying light aircraft is not a sport, it's a hobby.”

There are plenty of recreations that are also a sport, Golf for a start it’s not a win or loose game for most, you aim to improve your handicap but most never take part in a competition, cycling, marathon running, horse riding, some set targets some just to keep fit. Light Aviation isnt particularly competitive but Gliding can be very competitive and is becoming more so.

So there is no distinction between Sport and Recreation.

SpannerInTheWerks
12th May 2020, 11:29
Social distancing is the obvious issue, as is the problem that is you have an 'incident' that requires the emergency services to attend then you are depriving others of that essential service for the sake of your hobby and self-indulgence.

This is the line taken by the LAA.

Private flying is way down the list of activities to be undertaken at the moment.

Two examples of the shortage of emergency response:

A friend of mine had a heart attack just over two weeks ago. He managed to reach home to dial 999. The response was 'sorry, we have no ambulances available at the moment'. His partner drove him at high speed to Preston - and then he was taken to Blackpool for specialist treatment. He is recovering, but it was a close call.

The second example, sadly, involved my 9 week old granddaughter. The delay in response mean't she died before the ambulance arrived. Attending the funeral of a baby is not something I would want anyone to have to endure.

So before you think of recreational flying with your mates, remember there are others who may suffer if you should have issues as a consequence of your own enjoyment.

250 kts
12th May 2020, 13:18
There will always be commentators that sit on opposing sides of the fence. For those that wish to remain grounded, what do you propose? What will it take to get solo flying back in the air?
GA is a sport, it’s the most exercise I get, pushing the A/C to the pumps, in and out the hangar, cleaning, pre flight etc etc.
Lets be positive in these challenging times and let’s get things moving in a safe and considered manner.

I think you'll find it's a hobby not a sport. Sport tends to involve a competitive element but if you think getting it out and washed as quickly as possible constitutes sport then I'm on another planet

And for spanner, my sincere condolences on your loss which really bring all of this into perspective.

rcsa
12th May 2020, 14:03
The second example, sadly, involved my 9 week old granddaughter. The delay in response mean't she died before the ambulance arrived. Attending the funeral of a baby is not something I would want anyone to have to endure.



Good God. I'm so sorry for you and your family.

BigEndBob
12th May 2020, 19:33
Social distancing is the obvious issue, as is the problem that is you have an 'incident' that requires the emergency services to attend then you are depriving others of that essential service for the sake of your hobby and self-indulgence.

This is the line taken by the LAA.

Private flying is way down the list of activities to be undertaken at the moment.

Two examples of the shortage of emergency response:

A friend of mine had a heart attack just over two weeks ago. He managed to reach home to dial 999. The response was 'sorry, we have no ambulances available at the moment'. His partner drove him at high speed to Preston - and then he was taken to Blackpool for specialist treatment. He is recovering, but it was a close call.

The second example, sadly, involved my 9 week old granddaughter. The delay in response mean't she died before the ambulance arrived. Attending the funeral of a baby is not something I would want anyone to have to endure.

So before you think of recreational flying with your mates, remember there are others who may suffer if you should have issues as a consequence of your own enjoyment.

Unfortunately delays like these occur all the time. You may find the ambulance has been sent to a care home to pick up a resident off the floor. I have seen this a few times when i use to visit mother in her care home.
There are many cars on the road now and will be shortly even more. Flying doesn't add any more pressure than daily driving to the likely hood of an accident.

Paul Rice
13th May 2020, 12:52
GA is not just recreation for some this is a means of transport that avoids congestion on public transport i.e long distance rail travel now flybe has collapsed.

For flying instructors and many companies and their staff GA is their means of earning a living. Its their means of paying the bills putting food on the table and contributing to taxation without which ultimately there will be no public services at all in the future.

We have had seven weeks of lock down during which time the CAA could have got themselves in step with Government policy and provided leadership on restarting flying.

The CAA are now 72 hours astern of station in terms of being in compliance with a Prime Ministerial directive to get back to work.

excrab
13th May 2020, 13:04
It might be ok for flying instructors to return to work. But how are the students “working”, unless they are being paid to learn to fly?

Paul Rice
13th May 2020, 13:22
The instructor is working in just the same way as say a plumber in your house is working. The student I very much hope is working towards the attainment of a PPL which for many is the first step towards a CPL or they are a professional student training for a professional licence CPL ATPL and all the necessary additional ratings night IR etc.

As an ex crab you may have had everything paid for by the Queen and experienced the luxury of being paid to learn to fly. But in the commercial world the student pays for everything makes great sacrifices. Their training continuity is vital to their progress and their bank balance.

Tube passengers are not working when sat on the tube train but the driver is paid and allowed to go to work.

Pilot DAR
13th May 2020, 14:31
Slow down people, we're in this together. We would all like to be back to full freedom in many things, including flying. It's different place to place, and by other circumstances (employment/work rules) too. There's no point in poking at each other about it here. If some are able to fly within the bounds of the rules, and social responsibility, and choose to, they are supporting our industry. If others would rather wait it out, or have no choice, we support their present reality. Why would anyone criticize either?

genrebegoode
14th May 2020, 10:12
The CAA just published safety advice for the resumption of GA flying (publicapps.caa [dot] co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=9614), but there's still no change to the .gov.uk advice since the last update back in March.

Paul Rice
15th May 2020, 09:14
Every day I receive an update from the canal and river trust about what I can and cannot do with my boat. Initially you could not visit your boat, then you were allowed to visit but not sail, now you can sail but do not use the locks and do not overnight on your boat. Guidance and information every step of the way. Compared and contrast that to the silence from the Civil Aviation Authority. Issue some guidance please at least to say why the ban is still in place and when it will be reviewed. We are supposed to be avoiding public transport and for those of us lucky enough to have access to an aeroplane flying is one way of doing that. The Prime Minister has instructed us to go back to work were we can't work from home. As a flight instructor I need to work or I starve. I am assuming that the CAA is subordinate to the Prime Minister so it is time that the CAA explain to us why they are out of step with the Governments broadcast intent.

BONES_
15th May 2020, 12:20
Every day I receive an update from the canal and river trust about what I can and cannot do with my boat. Initially you could not visit your boat, then you were allowed to visit but not sail, now you can sail but do not use the locks and do not overnight on your boat. Guidance and information every step of the way. Compared and contrast that to the silence from the Civil Aviation Authority. Issue some guidance please at least to say why the ban is still in place and when it will be reviewed. We are supposed to be avoiding public transport and for those of us lucky enough to have access to an aeroplane flying is one way of doing that. The Prime Minister has instructed us to go back to work were we can't work from home. As a flight instructor I need to work or I starve. I am assuming that the CAA is subordinate to the Prime Minister so it is time that the CAA explain to us why they are out of step with the Governments broadcast intent.

And here it is, from the Department for Transport:

http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation/coronavirus-covid-19-recreational-general-aviation

not good (yet), Iím afraid

ShotOne
16th May 2020, 23:31
Considering such essential locations as garden centres and angling lakes have now been officially allowed to reopen Iím struggling to see how flying a light aircraft is helping to spread the virus.

Longtimer
16th May 2020, 23:55
Considering such essential locations as garden centres and angling lakes have now been officially allowed to reopen Iím struggling to see how flying a light aircraft is helping to spread the virus.
It is not flying the light aircraft, it is all about the passengers and the pilot and if they are carriers. So I guess the only safety measure is a Mandatory quarantine until such time as both are shown to be virus free.

Bridgestone17
18th May 2020, 09:25
Problem i see will the airports open. If they open there is no excuse for clubs to not start flying.
The airport i work on they could have kept staff on and redecorate the place, not close down for furlough money.


Halfpenny Green