RNZAF not so useful

[Cartman, E]

Heard on the grape vine that the dozen or so chaps that came over from NZ aren't getting citizenship here in the UK for the standard period of 5 years. I think this means their security clearance will be fairly basic. Obviously not really a problem for tanking and transport but the FJ guys must be very limited in the types of operational sorties they will be able to perform. I guess even those on the Herc and the Rod may be limited in what they can do.

I also heard a while back, not sure if it made it on here, that a few slots were "made" for some of the NZ guys to slot in to Valley. A few studes were surprisingly chopped at a late stage from the Linton course due to move to Valley at the same time.

Now don't get me wrong here, the pilots from NZ have made the best they could from a bad situation back home and anyone in their position would have done the same. Whether or not there were tactical choppings going on was nothing to do with them. But just think of the number of people who struggled a bit at Linton but were given the chance at Valley and pulled it all together. I certainly know a few and I'm sure there will be a few on this forum to put their hands up.

How pi$$ed off would you be if you had lost your place to someone who couldn't do the job properly?

[Dogstar]

Many of the RNZAF guys came straight from a Front Line over there and went straight to the Front Line in the UK. Their pedigree is very good and having flown with some of them I can assure you that their proven single seat track record means that on the Front Line their skills will be used. They were very carefully vetted and sent to appropriate forces according to their nationality - remember many people in New Zealand have parents etc who only went out a generation ago. The idea that loads of places at Valley were taken up is, I believe , a spurious rumour which probably started amongst those who need some kind of explanation as to why they did not quite make it through

[TOOM]

Retired 18 months ago after 30 yrs in RAF, during this time I never took UK citizenship - couldn't stomach forking out £700+ for the privilege (??). RAF was content that I remain a Kiwi and it never impeded the numerous PVs I underwent. Maybe, times they have a changed!

Given the shortage in the frontline, is it likely that UK-trained FJ candidates would be chopped to make way for Kiwis? Maybe slipped, but hardly chopped methinks.

[bakseetblatherer]

Eric Cartman,
Your fat is obviously in your brain, not your big bones. You need to listen to rumours with a grain of salt.
There are already at least 2 ex-RNZAF Kiwis at leuchars, frontline and ready to go. There is also no way we would chop people to give them a place (the RAF certainly would put them on holding til a space arrived) as we are so short- so either some one was feeding you a line or you have some friends with a chip on their shoulder from being chopped.
;)

[ORAC]

Well Ken Hayr didn't seem to have any problems as a Kiwi.

[canberra]

and neither did al deere or maori cunningham.

[DuckDogers]

Don't seem to recall that the 4 Kiwis at Colt on the Shaguar seem to have had any problems with any of what you mention.

Did not seem to affect Air Vice Marshall Sir Keith Park GCB KBE MC DFC DCL

http://users.chariot.net.au/~theburfs/Person/kpark.jpg

Come to think of it, it has not stopped our Canadian exchange officer serving on two very recent Ops either.............

[Flatus Veteranus]

There was a time just after WW2 when there were as many Kiwis on the Air Council as Poms. In my time "top Kiwi" was Sir John(?) Elworthy - CAS then CDS. When commanding a Lanc squadron during the war he was grounded by the quacks for ulcers. he insisted on finishing his tour from the rear gunner's seat.

[reynoldsno1]

I flew with a Kiwi from a secret RAF base on the Moray Firth, and he never had a problem keeping secrets - and nor did I when I then joined the RNZAF... we do have the same head of state as each other.

[Background Noise]

There are, I believe, differences between exchange officers of different nationalities. Some can do/see stuff and some can't. There are also differences between exchange officers and RAF officers who are not British. My understanding is that these Kiwis will be restricted in some areas initially although I can't see we can't get that changed to suit our requirements. And I don't think you can simply say that they made the best of a bad job, implying that we somehow have had the wool pulled over our eyes - I think we actually actively recruited them (?)

Red tape aside, I have flown with a number of these guys and hour for hour they are at least as good as our better FJ JPs. despite their relatively limited experience they have a lot to give - I only hope we are big enough to accept it.

[Samuel]

I wonder if the first allied air ace[Kain],and the three VC's Trent, Trigg and Ward] were ever asked for passport verification?

Didn't the Kiwi P3 almost carry the Fincastle this year, and would have but for the aircraft falling over and missing the last sortie?

I heard they also threw the best party as usual!;)

[BlueWolf]

A point to consider; the "R" in RNZAF is the same as the "R" in RAF.

I guess someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the reason the NZDF doesn't use the top tier of commissioned rank, and the second from top only in the case of the CDF, was because NZ forces are regarded as part of HM forces.

[Samuel]

You're not wrong BW; 'tis indeed the "Royal" New Zealand Air Force, and my commission parchment states [before the bit where I become "Trusty and Well-beloved !"],: "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, New Zealand and her other blah blah ".

If I'm not mistaken, it has always been possible for Kiwis to complete initial flying training in New Zealand prior to joining the RAF; all formalised through the British High Commission in Wellington.

[canberra]

liked the picture of keith park. pity he's wearing the uniform of an air marshal not an air-vice marshal!

[circle kay]

Samuel
Yes the kiwis did very well at Fincastle (as always) but I suggest that they may well had to do a little more than just take off on the last trip. However the kiwis still punch so far above their weight it's untrue, even after the loss of the A4s. This is all down to the quality of the guys and girls from the land of the long white cloud

[tone-uncage-fire]

The hiccup is over AMRAAM. The good ol USA says specifically: "USA, UK and Australian Eyes Only (Not New Zealand)"

The intent is not to give the Info to the NZ Govt because of their nuclear free stance.

RAF vetting of kiwi pilots can/will allow them access because, as RAF Officers, they are bound by the Official Secrets Act irrespective of citizenship.

Eric Cartman, the rest of your post is "chocolate-salty-balls"

WRT Fincastle; kiwis have always fought nicely above their weight but its a bit worthless if, on the days of the war, you cant get your chariot off the ground! About time you brought some decent kit and allowed your 'guys/gals' back to the party.