Eurocontrol jobs

[Lock n' Load]

Ok, so it's been asked before (probably) but does anyone here have advice on working for Eurocontrol?
P*ssed of with NATS, valid in aerodrome and approach radar, 25+ years left, looking for a positive change of scenery. Would I need to transfer to area within NATS before being considered by Maastricht, or would they train me?
I'd also like to know what the quality of life is like compared with the UK (property prices in particular!) and what the working envoirnment is like. And what languages are worth learning? I know the cloggies are multilingual smartarses, but should I be polishing my French?

[flowman]

Lock n' Load

If you think "cloggies are multilingual smartarses" maybe a multicultural environment such as Eurocontrol is not for you.
Try www.eurocontrol.int. Maybe they can use you in their international relations department.

Flowman

[Bigears]

Notice he/she comes from 'Jockland' too! :D

[GroundBound]

Eurocontrol, like many other places are looking for controllers. They have an ab-initio traning scheme (like the UK cadet training), as well as taking on qualified controllers from their member states countries.

You would certainly need Area radar training, but your previous experience, with radar, would probably be a bonus. You can but ask!

The distribution of nationalities is very varied. However, you will have to accomodate to the idea that things at the office and at home are not done the same way as you may be used to in the UK. It doesn't make it wrong, just different.

Being as how Maastricht is in the Netherlands (some would say Limburg, if you ever get there you will find out what I mean :) ), you would be better learnng Dutch than French. English is of course the ATC language, but can also be used in the surrounding environment.

Because of its location, you can chose to live in NL, Germany, or Belgium, and still be within easy travelling distance to work. NL is the most brit-like of the 3 countries, though.

Why not get a fam flight to Beek (EHBK), and arrange a visit to the centre. Its on the opposite side of the airfield.

best link is http://www.eurocontrol.be/dgs/activities/maastricht/en/index.html

Apparently, the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs has prepared a CD Rom in four languages (German, English, Spanish and French) which is intended as a gateway to the Netherlands for foreigners. It sets out a wealth of information such as Dutch history, geography, art, economy, institutions, as well as links to interesting websites. Don't have an address for it though, sorry :( Maybe try searching the Dutch sites.

[Lock n' Load]

Bigears - I am a Jock! I can call my country Jockland, Rainworld, Land of the Deep-Fried Mars Bar or whatever. Woe betide any Englishman trying the same... ;)
Flowman - I am the very soul of dimplomacy, honest guv'. However, anyone from a UK forces background knows that Cloggy is a term of endearment. And political correctness erodes freedom of expression and tends to make people take themselves too seriously.:p

Groundbound - thanks for the tips. I e-mailed the recruiting dept and got what seemed like an automated response, so perhaps they only want applications in response to specific job adverts. Anyone know if that's so?

As a fracophile, I'd also be interested in working in France though a websearch revealed nothing that my current standard of French could make sense of.

For those who have made the move from the UK to the continent, are you glad you did? Do you feel that you have a better working envoirnment and standard of living?

[flowman]

Surely "Jock" is a term of endearment the English apply to you nice Scottish people.
Am I glad I moved from the U.K.- absolutely. Wife and kids (all now bi/trilingual) love it too. And the beer's much nicer than that pash you jocks drink.

[Nogbad the Bad]

To be quite honest, I can't see why anyone who is of younger years contemplates staying within such an "Organisation" (for want of a better word) as NATS.

Things are opening up for the qualified controller, with jobs at Eurocontrol, in Canada and Australia........and, rumour has it, in the USA towards the end of this year.

NATS has proved itself to be not worthy of the people it employs. They treat their workforce as if they were production-line workers (no offence, but I think you catch my drift). The truth is that the vast majority of NATS staff are far more intelligent than the people that "manage" them !!!

My advice - if you're young, get out as soon as you can. Sadly the increasingly open market has come too late for old b*ggers like me...............:D

[Proceed As Cleared]

I don't mean to spoil the party, but I would suggest it to be fairly difficult to impossible to get a job as an expat in Oz or US of A.

To join Airservices Australia under the so called RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) scheme you would either have to be a citizen or a permanent resident. Apart from that, you would start at the bottom of the pay scale, no matter what your experience is.
And only trainee's pay at the college. Appalling conditions compared to other expat schemes, if you ask me!

As we all (should) know, USA are a special case. Citizenship required (for security reasons :confused: ).
And I don't believe that this will change until hell freezes over.

Best prospects, if you look for greener grass (with no guarantee that it will be!):

UAE

Bahrain

Canada (to get residency up to the applicant, however offer of employment will significantly increase the probability of getting it)

Eurocontrol (no official expat recruitement, but doesn't mean that they're not taking any. Apparently other european ATC agencies have complained about Eurocontrol attracting licenced ATCOs and therefore contributing to the already dramatic staff shortage).

Airways New Zealand (occasionally recruit expats, but not necessarily for radar positions, and if, then only Area. Other possible work places include Wellington, Auckland, Christchurch international towers or domestic towers. Pay is cr@p though.)

Skyguide (could be running another expat course next year, especially Geneva Area is in demand, not officially confirmed though, but might be worth a try.)

[Greebson]

Flowman
Any age restrictions for folk wishing to go to sunny Brussels?
I tried about 10 years ago, but didn't have the necessary experience, but would be interested in making the move again.

[imnomaverick]

Proceed as Cleared,

"Eurocontrol (no official expat recruitement, but doesn't mean that they're not taking any. "

Unfortunately this is exactly what they mean. Eurocontrol has stopped all conversion courses and are concentrating on abinitio recruitment as you will see by their website. That is not to say they wouldn't change their mind down the track though, if for instance, the abinitio's they recruited have a significant number of failures ;) ;)

[Proceed As Cleared]

What I reckon is, that, provided they get a sufficient number of qualified expats who express their interest, they might run a course again.
BTW, are you trying to get out of NZ? ;)

[imnomaverick]

Proceed as cleared

I know of a couple of people that have tried with the Eurocontrol HR department only to be given the response I posted earlier. They were all qualified ATCO's with extensive experience from Switzerland, Australia etc.
Nope not in NZ, you must have me confused with someone else.

[Scott Voigt]

Nogbad;

As you have already seen posted, you might as well nip that rumor in the bud... The FAA isn't going to stand a chance in hell of hiring anyone who isn't a citizen for ATC... Unless of course we get privitized. Then who knows what would happen <G>.

But then, I probably would stand just as much chance getting hired at Maastricht as y'all have of getting hired here... Retirement elligibility in a little over three years <BG>...

regards

[Nogbad the Bad]

Hi Scott

Thanks for that.....the rumours over here are quite strong though. I think, in the next 10 years or so, authorities everywhere will be crying out for controllers.

We in the UK are JUST beginning a huge retirement bulge that will last for approxiimately that long - if not a little longer.

I'll keep watching with interest ;)

[flowman]

Greebson

There was an arbitrary age limit of 40 for recruitment of Flow Controllers which was applied at the paper sift stage. We complained that this was disqualifying some very well suited applicants for no good reason and management subsequently changed their view on age limitations. The best way to find out now is to apply. You will need minimum 5 years radar experience or you will not be considered.

As for ATCO recruitment for Maastricht UAC, perhaps one of the PPRUNErs form there can enlighten us.

Anyone who is a citizen of a European Union state is entitled to apply to Eurocontrol. Members of ECAC (Eurocontrol members) states may receive different contracts to recruits from non-ECAC States (but the pay is the same).

Proceed as Cleared is right though. Eurocontrol will not be seen to be poaching ATCOs from national ATC administrations. That means if you work for NATS, they will have to approve your application. If you are non-NATS that will not be a problem.

Flowman

[fourthreethree]

Lock n Load

Lets get back to the original question. I came over to Euroland as an ab-initio several years ago from Blighty, and thought everything about it was marvellous, conditions, pay, beer, chocolate, women etc... ;) ;)
However the honeymoon period wore out and I now find life here monotonous, the language impossible to learn, as the natives all speak, or at least try to speak, perfect English, and out of "freindliness" insist on speaking it. Several expensive so-called misunderstandings later this charming habit seems less charming. Don't get me wrong, the Dutch and Belgians are not unfreindly people, they are just very, very different from Brits, different values, culture etc. This has become more apparent since I got me a baby.

As far as the work is concerned I don't think you'll find better hours, rates of pay, leave entitlement, pension rights etc anywhere, and working in a multi-cultural environment is a very rewarding experience, not to mention an enjoyable one.

I can only say that I know of many cases whereby Brits have been tempted to Eurocontrol for the cash, and have struggled to fit in socially.

You asked about cost of living, well it varies greatly from Germany to Holland to Belgium. I have lived in Holland and Belgium, and without a doubt Belgium is cheaper. I got fed up with paying taxes for your taxes in Holland! House prices vary beyond belief within such a small area, but generally inside Maastricht or Aachen is expensive, say 200 grand for a decent semi, the same price as you'd pay for a large-ish detached in Belgium.

Don't bother learning French unless you want to live in Liege, and trust me, you don't!!:D :D

[TrafficTraffic]

Things are opening up for the qualified controller, with jobs at Eurocontrol, in Canada and Australia........and,

It never ceases to amaze me that people insist on pretending to know more than they actually do.

Nogbad for example...

Australia has always accepted qualified controllers, it even says it on their website - as long as you meet the citizenship requirements* and dont mind starting on the bottom of the bottom of pay after a short :o introduction to ATC course. (*Many years ago they did take an exceptional course of non residents Dane's and some Septic Tanks(and exceptionally nice people they are too!!)).

Anyway I digress, I dont know about Canada
(note how I say nothing about something I know nothing about - except to say I know nothing...)

Eurocontrol ARE NOT RECRUITING EXPERIENCED CONTROLLERS - I know of several ATC's very very keen to join and pester (sp) HR in Maastricht on a weekly basis - the official reply ...that there are no conversion courses scheduled - or forseen...

I believe there is another thread about our Swiss friends.


....the things I know....no rumours

[Nogbad the Bad]

Shame others aren't as perfect as YOU Traffic Traffic !!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[zed3]

Beware , Eurocontrol management at MAASTRICHT is not much different from CAA from what I have read here about the UK . Brussels is better , it is the headquarters and Central Flow and IFPS.l

[Stomper]

Proceed as cleared

AREN'T YOU TRYING TO GET OF NZ?

:eek:

[Proceed As Cleared]

Trying?

:cool:

BTW, when are drinkies happening?

;)