South African Airways. The end.

[ATC Watcher]

Sad outcome after 96 years in operations:sad:
https://onemileatatime.com/south-african-airways-firing-staff/ ....

[Toruk Macto]

Sad news , good luck to the ones who deserve it .

[Alternate Law]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1120x2000/37563706_5b1c_4e54_8965_7bc8fc8d2002_06b803d33538281ac93bd4f 26f0b99b52229677c.jpeg
The backside doesn't know what the face is doing...

[The Ancient Geek]

The fundamental problem is that SAA is massively overstaffed with political appointees and jobs for the boys. The politicians will not allow them to fire their brothers, cousins, friends etc who are basically dead wood.
My best guess is that SAA will go bust and then be replaced by a properly professional privately owned fresh startup without the baggage. Possibly a subsidiary of another airline such as BA or EK. BA already have Comair.

[Imagegear]

I regret to say that the brown envelope big enough to pay off all the brothers, cousins, friends, MP's, etc has not been made yet.

Neither will they permit the creation of a subsidiary of any airline in SA unless they can get all their snouts in the trough at the same time. (Fixed for MattyJ)

IG

[mattyj]

No wonder SA is stuffed..in most other countries you put your snout in the trough not your feet

[FuelFlow]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1234x1886/screenshot_2020_04_20_at_16_33_56_0d0ef02cc500d4158a87d00109 e81076b65083d7.png
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1212x1726/screenshot_2020_04_20_at_16_34_06_e11d9fb059e87a22c7eefda9dc 090312ec47d159.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1192x1650/screenshot_2020_04_20_at_16_34_17_fac1004b1cd379c6d533a258ec 2949255b229efa.png

[Paul852]

That is an extraordinarily racist letter which should surely be condemned by everybody!

The concept of people whose family has lived in South Africa for multiple generations not being (South) African is absurd.

Can I suggest contemplating that letter if it were written for, say, British Airways, breaking down the pilot group by race, and what the response would be?

[Maxfli]

TIA............

[TheBat]

Quite simply, disgusting (the letter!)

[Douglas Bahada]

What do you expect.
1. Its Africa.
2. Its not racist if it is written by a "Black" or a "Coloured" person.

[esscee]

That letter nicely sums up why S Africa as a country is in a mess. A shame with leaders like that in a country with many resources.

[megan]

What is a "coloured" individual the letter talks about?

[Imagegear]

"Coloured" - Mixed Race

One could comment on the messaging inferred by the Race listing order in the letter.
But that would be racist

IG

[Douglas Bahada]

"Coloured" - Mixed Race

One could comment on the messaging inferred by the Race listing order in the letter.
But that would be racist

IG

Black is best of course.

[Dave Clarke Fife]

What is a "coloured" individual the letter talks about?

When I used to live and work in Africa, a coloured person (or Cape Coloureds [Kaapse Kleurling in Afrikaans] as I knew them) were mixed race persons of African, European and Asian heritage.

The term "coloured (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured)" is currently treated as a neutral description in Southern Africa, classifying people of mixed race ancestry.

[Less Hair]

Apartheid the other way around this time? That is not true progress it seems.

[TheBat]

What do you expect.
1. Its Africa.
2. Its not racist if it is written by a "Black" or a "Coloured" person.
No-one familiar with post Mandela South Africa would be the least bit surprised by this.
You are so right unfortunately. Never lived in that part of the world, so I wasn't expecting it and I was shocked to read it!
Trying to protect / secure / save your job is one thing (which is understandable), but using racist categorization for it, is pathetic to say the least.

[Flying Clog]

Disgusting to read. But absolutely no surprise.

[Thaihawk]

Not only their national airline going down the tubes, but in the coming decades the rest of the country is likely to go the same way, with the ultimate benefactors being the Chinese Communist Party.

[Tray Surfer]

That letter is quite something else to read...

I work in Africa, we go to SA a lot, and never really enjoy it any more, and if those are the sentiments of some, then that explains the increased feeling of tension in the cities.

[ATSA1]

I have lived here in SA for 18 months now, and I am afraid that SA is truly obsessed with race...

I was even asked for my race on an application to join the national Model Aircraft Association!

[PAXboy]

South Africa has been divided by race since the Dutch landed in 1652 and then the Brits took over in 1806. (there was swapping back and forth). The racial segregation was mostly informal but was a daily fact. In 1948 the National party took over and moved towards formal Aprtheid which lasted until 1994 when Mandela walked.

That's 368 years so it will take some time to unpick those attitudes. You only have to consider that the USA and UK still show discrimination to people with differently coloured skins...

[Douglas Bahada]

That's 368 years so it will take some time to unpick those attitudes. You only have to consider that the USA and UK still show discrimination to people with differently coloured skins...

Unfortunately if you combine that with vast financial inequality and a lack of respect for human life you have a perfect storm. There will be a violent reckoning in the future as the local African tribes are some of the most racist and violent on the continent.

[4runner]

Disgusting to read. But absolutely no surprise.

Once race is addressed, then tribal affiliation comes in. Then this cycle begins again. It’s like a feeding frenzy. Once the fish is eaten, they circle some more until something else appears in the water.

[TCAS FAN]

Once race is addressed, then tribal affiliation comes in. Then this cycle begins again. It’s like a feeding frenzy. Once the fish is eaten, they circle some more until something else appears in the water.

C'est l'Afrique n'est-ce pas?

[caiman27]

Back to SAA, it appears that the government has decided that it is no longer an issue that it wants to be involved with. Let's see what happens when the salaries are not paid at the end of the month and what happens when there is no money for fuel. Rather than formally closing the airline, it appears that it will just stop functioning.

[krismiler]

The problem is that the government's broke and doesn't have the money to bail the airline out even if it wants to. After 25 years of looting and pillaging, the coffers of every state enterprise in SA are empty. Even before COVID-19, the country was on the edge of financial collapse and struggling to keep the electricity on. Maintaining an airline will be way down the list of priorities during the coming anarchy, which is already starting with shops being looted and trucks hijacked.

The ANC top brass will have to rely on charter aircraft when the time comes to flee to their mansions in Dubai.

[Allan Lupton]

C'est l'Afrique n'est-ce pas?
ex Africa semper aliquid novi
Pliny the elder

[TCAS FAN]

ex Africa semper aliquid novi
Pliny the elder

Right on, after a three year sentence (including remission for bad behaviour) in Liberia::

"WAWA"

West Africa Wins Again!

[caiman27]

Right on, after a three year sentence (including remission for bad behaviour) in Liberia::

"WAWA"

West Africa Wins Again!

I'm so glad that this is still alive. Back in the day, it was Africa Wins Again and then Blood Diamonds came along and misled most people with TIA.

But, Africa usually does.

AWA

[PAXboy]

I recall another way of explaining a situation to an outsider: TAB = That's Africa Babe!

Seriously different people and different ways of doing things. Not right or wrong just different. In Europe and the USA and other Western countries, we have our own kind of corruption and mutal back-scratching ...

[CurlyB]

I'm loving the fact that a lot of the comments calling out the racist letter (rightly) have their own racist connotations.

If you think that black people are the better off demographic in SA I think you are being naive...

[missingblade]

I'm loving the fact that a lot of the comments calling out the racist letter (rightly) have their own racist connotations.

If you think that black people are the better off demographic in SA I think you are being naive...

TWO POINTS:

1. The irony here is that the non white pilots at SAA who are here pleading to keep their jobs are actually the individuals who will MOST EASILY get new jobs once SAA fails. Because the government sets race transformation employment targets for all companies the other airlines in the country are desperate for non white pilots to meet their targets and will hire them quickly.

2. The ridiculous argument they make about transformation in aviation coming to a halt if SAA dont keep them in a job is also false. SAA stopped its Cadet scheme years ago and thus isn't doing any more 'transformation' . Ironically some of the other privately (dare I say white ?) owned airlines like Comair are now the ones running cadet/bursary schemes for non white pilots.

You cant make this nonsense up and the authors of that letter should be absolutely ashamed of themselves - after they have been handed their entire careers on a platter by the taxpayer - they want more...?

[deeceethree]

TWO POINTS:You cant make this nonsense up and the authors of that letter should be absolutely ashamed of themselves - after they have been handed their entire careers on a platter by the taxpayer - they want more...?

Of course they want more. The 'entitlement' attitude is mightily prevalent and it isn't likely to diminish just because SAA collapses.

[Bokpiel]

The first name on that letter, Mawethu Majola, is the idiot who failed a breathalyzer test 2 years ago before departure from LHR to JNB. The white captain reported him and guess what happened afterwards? Nothing happened to Majola and SAA blamed the captain for the flight cancellation and costs!!! Very sorry for all the hard working people at SAA if they actually do close down, but good riddance to everyone whose names are on that letter.

[Rashid Bacon]

Might be useful to look at the definition of apartheid: - a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race

Haven't we seen this all before, but the other way round.

Doesn't anyone, including the signatories of the above letter, learn the lessons of the past. :mad:

[4runner]

I'm loving the fact that a lot of the comments calling out the racist letter (rightly) have their own racist connotations.

If you think that black people are the better off demographic in SA I think you are being naive...

they’re not. That’s the irony. Only ANC officials are. You missed the forest, looking at trees Chyna.

[PAXboy]

Rashid Bacon Doesn't anyone, including the signatories of the above letter, learn the lessons of the past
No! That is why we have had a steady stream of financial recessions over the decades, various 'bubbles' of tulips and property etc. Each generation thinks it knows better than the one before. I have often summed it up by saying: Young men do not listen to their fathers, leave alone their grandfathers.

[caiman27]

Strangely, SAA is still flying but not on regular routes. Right now there's SAA 4586 operated by an A340-600 on a direct flight from Johannesburg to Clark in the Philippines. This is presumably freight as Clark has been closed to passengers for the past month and the various evacuation flights have all operated through Manila. Having said that, I cannot imagine what freight could possibly be deemed vital between these two countries. Maybe experienced nurses? But obviously, they would not be freight.

Indeed, has there ever been a direct flight between South Africa and Philippines? I suspect not.

And, whilst I am looking, I see there's another SAA A340 in Havana of all places. That has to be a medical aid trip.

[4runner]

Cuba likes to sell medical personnel. It’s a source of hard currency for the communist government. So Cuba will send a doctor, charge say, 100 dollars per month to a nation, then pay the doctor 10 dollars per month. The Cuban government keeps the 90. Why don’t the doctors just stay overseas? Because they’re being watched and monitored by their intelligence services.

[Bokpiel]

Cuba and the ANC regime have very close ties.

[fly nice]

Keep a lookout for LHR-JNB tomorrow, JNB-MIA-CPT on Monday, CPT-PER Tuesday.

[gate4]

And, whilst I am looking, I see there's another SAA A340 in Havana of all places. That has to be a medical aid trip.


This actually was using a Cubana callsign...

[rodmur]

It is not going anywhere. government will save it. Any bets ?

[caiman27]

The collective denial within South Africa about the reality of SAA's financial situation continues to amaze me. It's like denying that gravity exists. From next week, anyone still working for SAA is working for free. It's as simple as that. And without fuel, money for servicing, landing fees, etc, the aircraft will have nowhere to fly as they will get impounded.

On the other hand, all except one of the aircraft still flying are actually owned outright by SAA so they will not be paying lease charges. It is conceivable that a very small rump airline could stagger on, much like Air Zimbabwe with its lone serviceable 767. But who would knowingly book on it when all of its long-haul routes are also flown by much better airlines? No-one really wants to fly in tatty old A340s when something better is available.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Good riddance. After the ANC got their grubby hands on the once great SAA it ceased to be a world class airline. All their racist hiring procedures destroyed it and its reputation. Let this be a lesson to black Africans, nobody cares about your identity politics and your racist 'Positive Discrimination' hiring process. Dont expect to be taken seriously anytime soon.

[Bokpiel]

The collective denial within South Africa about the reality of SAA's financial situation continues to amaze me. It's like denying that gravity exists.

Who exactly is in denial? Definitely not the public. I think not even the useless ANC politicians are in denial anymore, but it is much more complicated than that.

[ddd]

https://www.capetalk.co.za/articles/382174/listen-next-48-hours-are-crucial-for-saa-says-numsa?fbclid=IwAR2bh4_XNum34h5gD1sJC8kBL1WFbY2hP345P3kxkDjsT bNN-wc07hGQ3SU

[caiman27]

Who exactly is in denial? Definitely not the public. I think not even the useless ANC politicians are in denial anymore, but it is much more complicated than that.


I refer you to yesterday's editorial in Business Day: https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/opinion/editorials/2020-04-28-editorial-whats-gordhan-up-to/

[caiman27]

So, did anyone at SAA actually get paid at the end of April?

[olirindis]

We all did and I even got quite a lot more than I expected😁😁

[italian stallion]

It is actually disgusting...whilst other airlines are on unpaid leave and then on 50% salary only once they start flying again
So it is not only the fat politicians at the top...

[Dan_Brown]

The story of Africa. Power comes out the barrel of a gun, or a fat wallet.

A racist rant which, which I've never heard the likes before. A rabid Africana would be pushed to beat that.

[PAXboy]

Now we have a pause whilst the Govt and the Airline and lots of others have an Indaba.

Any guesses as to where next?

[caiman27]

SA Express gone

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/national/2020-05-19-sa-express-tells-employees-not-to-return-to-work/

[caiman27]

South African Airways leased aircraft are now being reclaimed by their owners. Four A330 flown to the USA for storage.

[olirindis]

No, they’re being returned to their lessors....... we’ve exited the leases early.

[caiman27]

It's refreshing to see that SA Airlink has just completed a St. Helena run, but under their own 4Z code this time.

[Typhoon Tripacer]

I can't post links but Bloomberg have a piece today headlined "The administrators running South Africa's embattled national airline proposed the government provide a 21 billion rand ($1.2 billion) bailout to help repay debt and resume operations after the lifting of Covid-19 travel bans".

The article suggests the money has been budgeted by the government. Has SAA escaped again to blow further billions over the next year.

[caiman27]

The Business Rescue Plan has now been published. The proposal includes plans to restart flying in July 2020 using six narrow bodied aircraft, expanding in September to 10 small narrow body, 9 narrow body and 4 wide body aircraft and adding a further 3 wide body aircraft in January 2021. 1,000 employees will be retained at the start, increasing to 2,892 by year end.

Full report here: https://matusonassociates.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/South-African-Airways-SOC-Limited-Business-Rescue-Plan.pdf

[PAXboy]

Mail & Guardian (https://mg.co.za/business/2020-07-14-saa-creditors-give-go-ahead-on-rescue-plan/)South African Airways’ creditors have approved the state airline’s business rescue plan, bringing to an end a long seven-month process.

Business rescue practitioner Siviwe Songwana told the meeting of creditors on Tuesday that 86% of them had voted in favour of the plan, which will see the airline dissolved to make way for a new airline.

[caiman27]

Actually not. The funding has yet to be approved. No-one wants to take responsibility for what is essentially a political decision that for the most part only benefits the richest of South Africa's citizens.

[PAXboy]

From the South African: Daily Maverick (https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-09-17-saa-faces-liquidation-again-as-r10-4bn-state-lifeline-fails-to-appear/)
SAA is again in danger of liquidation as urgent funding for the state-owned airline’s business rescue process has failed to materialise.

The Department of Public Enterprises, which is the sole shareholder of SAA, has missed the Thursday 17 September deadline to provide at least R10.4-billion for the airline to be restructured.

The deadline was set by the SAA business rescue practitioners, Siviwe Dongwana and Les Matuson, on 10 September, when they warned that the airline was facing a dire financial situation because funding from the government had been serially delayed.

On Thursday 17 September, the rescue practitioners informed SAA creditors that they had again failed to secure funding from the government despite the approval of the airline’s business rescue plan two months ago.

“The business rescue practitioners hereby advise affected persons that the anticipated funding has not been received by the company in accordance with the commitment from government to provide the funding for the restructuring of the company and the implementation of its business rescue plan,” Matuson and Dongwana said in a letter to SAA creditors and other affected parties.

[wheelbarrow]

Fuelflow

While I understand your sentiment, having lived and worked there for a number of years, I tend to agree with some of the negative sentiments you have aroused! Surely you cannot consider that only African (and by this you infer black) pilots should be considered as the future of SAA. On what grounds do you base this? Yes you were disadvantaged under Apartheid, but so were the 'Coloured' and Indians so why do you exclude them from your numbers? That is surely a demonstration of the racial intolerance that you hold, and does you no favours in trying to be heard on an international forum!
My belief is that all ethnicities in SA are 'African', with a shared interest in the prosperity and stability of the country. Until you let go of the injustices of the past and decide to all (including the white citizens) get together and work to make the best of SA, then not much will be achieved.
By the implicit threat of continuing racism, albeit in a reverse direction, then those who still hold a lot of the financial power (i.e. whites) will be very adverse to relinquishing their positions.

[Trossie]

BBC

18:18 29 Sep

South African Airways operations suspended

Operations of South African Airways (SAA), the country's national carrier, have been suspended with immediate effect.

"This means SAA will complete repatriation flights that have already been scheduled but will not schedule any further flights," Business Day news site reports.

Administrators said they were putting the struggling state-owned carrier under "care and maintenance" until funding for a restructuring plan was found.

The airline was put in bankruptcy protection in December after heavy financial losses in the past few years, which have been exacerbated by the Covid-19 pandemic.

The government has not come up with more than 10.5bn rand ($621m; £483m) to support a restructuring plan outlined by administrators in June, EWN news site reports.

[PAXboy]

Rather than start a new thread:

Workers get their slice of SA ExpressMail & Guardian (https://mg.co.za/business/2020-10-03-workers-get-their-slice-of-sa-express/)

[krismiler]

Ethiopian Airlines are offering to operate long haul flights for SAA, but aren’t going to get involved in a rescue plan. Ethiopian have an extensive route network already and could easily extend the Addis - JNB flights onwards or base a few aircraft in SA. They already employ contract pilots so there might be some jobs going but they won’t be on SAA T&Cs.


https://simpleflying.com/ethiopian-airlines-south-africa-offer/

[PAXboy]

Again, not to start a new thread:
Cape Town – Antigen tests for coronavirus detection will be rolled out to all ports of entry with immediate effect, the government said on Thursday.

On arrival, a traveller will be screened for symptoms and sent for testing should they not have a certified polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test result. The test will be conducted at a fee of about R150-R170 and will be paid by the traveller.

Anyone who is red-flagged for showing symptoms of Covid-19 may still be quarantined, even with a negative antigen test.

Travellers to SA given fast, cheap option to test for coronavirus at ports of entry (https://www.iol.co.za/travel/travel-news/travellers-to-sa-given-fast-cheap-option-to-test-for-coronavirus-at-ports-of-entry-ce3090f4-7a06-4806-ae5e-6986b2f86198) IoL