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View Full Version : PACKAGE TRAVEL REFUNDS-What is theTruth?


Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 12:13
MODS - please move if on the wrong Forum.

OK - Where's the money?
Acording to 'reports', TUI are refusing to Refund Customers who require one for a YEAR.
I read the hand-wringing comments that the PT companies will go broke if they refund all the money. But that can't be true.

Isnt it the case that they DO NOT have your money anyway? Its in escrow (or whatever) at the Merchant Card Providers organisations until such time as they provide the holiday that was contracted. "Accounts Receivable"? As that Contract is now cancelled why is it a problem simply to tell the MCP's to return it to the card?

Despite ABTA telling their club members different, the Package Travel Regulations law applies. It IS the Law. Refund money in 14 days. Why would ABTA tell companies to ignore that?
If you take the offered Credit Note you have effectively thrown your Comsumer Rights to any future refund at ANY time in the Bin.

And - Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act also applies if you paid by CC. If only it wasn't so b----y difficult to do if you go that route.
Those in the 'know' might have more input.

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 13:44
What you've quoted in incorrect. Tui aren't refusing to refund.

They are automatically giving refund credit. Plus a 20% incentive to rebook. If not used within a year then it will auto refund as cash.

If refund is not suitable for you, you apply for a cash refund. But they are saying you can only apply for cash refund once you have recieved your credit refund.

More sensationalist tosh

Kirks gusset
18th Apr 2020, 13:55
There is much about this issue:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52105526

Basically, they must offer a refund, and given a voucher is worthless if the airline goes bust I would choose the cash. Some stranded pax abroad made the mistake of "cancelling" this means their contract with the carrier has ended and they are on their own, one can understand if you are cash strapped. Of course the airlines would rather hang on to your cash and give a voucher. In the case of NAS it seems the credit card companies are retaining the cash rather than passing it on to the company. BA Avios booking system is being wrongly changed to direct folks to vouchers not refunds.

Less Hair
18th Apr 2020, 14:02
Practically airlines would collapse if they'd need to refund all their passengers including the summer high season all together right now. So they try to avoid cash back "at any cost".
Passengers at the same time are cash strapped as well and normally any company must be able to refund services that have not taken place at any time. As some airlines will go bust in any way I understand paying customers that do prefer cash over promises.

esscee
18th Apr 2020, 14:17
The airlines/travel agents will try to hold onto the money, not as though they are going to get that much interest on it, for as long as the regulators let them get away with it. Officially it should be refunded by 14 days.

Ancient Observer
18th Apr 2020, 14:23
I had an expensive holiday booking to tour Vietnam with a well known UK based TA. After they cancelled the booking, - we would not be allowed in to Vietnam - the very nice agent on the phone said that refunds might "take months".
I told her I would use the UK law of section 75, as I had booked via Amex.
I put all this up on Trustpilot. The TA likes 5 star reviews on Trustpilot, and does not like 1 star reviews.
An hour or so later, a Supervisor rang me back. Lots of drivel ensued. Pleas of poverty, etc. etc. (Owner of TA is multi-millionaire).

Amex were very understanding.

My money is now safely back with me.

Trustpilot makes an interesting read. A lot of UK based TAs are trying to duck the refund issue.

Deltasierra010
18th Apr 2020, 14:39
Regulators are going to sit on their hands, the travel trade has no customers so it has no cash, it owes lots of preferential creditors already so they are not going to advance more.

TeachMe
18th Apr 2020, 14:45
I am having the same issue with Westjet for a ticket Calgary to London. They are only giving travel bank credit. Currently have a complaint in with the CTA (who have conveniently suspended all investigations until June) and with Mastercard. I have had significant communication with Westjet including senior people in customer service. The answer was a polite forget it - despite their own terms of service explicitly stating they refund if they cancel. I am very angry at them. I am not a shareholder, not a bond holder and this is just a forced loan. If my credit card company does not confirm the refund then I will take them to small claims court.

What I will not do is ever fly with them (or Air Canada due to them having the same policy) again. Period. I go to Seoul and to the UK about once a year for professional conferences. From now on I will be happy to pay more to fly with an airline that is not a bully so that means KLM (or BA if they come back to YYC) to Europe and driving to Vancouver to fly direct to Seoul.

Maybe it is only a few people who will do this, which is unfortunate that so many are sheeple, but airlines must learn to respect passengers. Those who treat peope with respect will come out a little ahead. Maybe only a little, but a little.

(And as a side note, my three hotels in the UK for my trip have already refunded my money)

TME

Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 14:46
What you've quoted in incorrect. Tui aren't refusing to refund.

They are automatically giving refund credit. Plus a 20% incentive to rebook. If not used within a year then it will auto refund as cash.

If refund is not suitable for you, you apply for a cash refund. But they are saying you can only apply for cash refund once you have recieved your credit refund.

More sensationalist tosh
That is NOT what the Law ststes. It us UNCONDITIONAL Refund if contract can't be met . And they can't. No-one can.
OK, Yeehaw, tell us what the refund time is IF you accept the voucher which then kills off your Rights and then decide on a Refund?
My money is on 1 year.

Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 14:50
Practically airlines would collapse - - -.
why? They (package holiday companies) dont actually have your money anyway.

MDS
18th Apr 2020, 14:50
I had an expensive holiday booking to tour Vietnam with a well known UK based TA. After they cancelled the booking, - we would not be allowed in to Vietnam - the very nice agent on the phone said that refunds might "take months".
I told her I would use the UK law of section 75, as I had booked via Amex.
I put all this up on Trustpilot. The TA likes 5 star reviews on Trustpilot, and does not like 1 star reviews.
An hour or so later, a Supervisor rang me back. Lots of drivel ensued. Pleas of poverty, etc. etc. (Owner of TA is multi-millionaire).

Amex were very understanding.

My money is now safely back with me.

Trustpilot makes an interesting read. A lot of UK based TAs are trying to duck the refund issue.

Glad to hear you got it resolved. Amex are always wonderful in such situations.

If airlines and TA's can't provide the service paid for on the scheduled date they need to refund in full, in cash; not some "credit" which goes down in smoke if the airline goes bust. Absolute cheek of these companies to delay and refuse refunds.

Perhaps when they were taking in record profits they should have set some aside for a rainy day fund instead of spaffing it up the wall (in the case of US airlines for example, huge stock buybacks).

Punters are not banks.


What you've quoted in incorrect. Tui aren't refusing to refund.

They are automatically giving refund credit. Plus a 20% incentive to rebook. If not used within a year then it will auto refund as cash.

If refund is not suitable for you, you apply for a cash refund. But they are saying you can only apply for cash refund once you have recieved your credit refund.

More sensationalist tosh

If I take cash from my client and I can't provide the service requested, I must refund their money -- not give them vouchers and p*** them about with silly excuses and delay tactics.

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 14:59
That is NOT what the Law ststes. It us UNCONDITIONAL Refund if contract can't be met . And they can't. No-one can.
OK, Yeehaw, tell us what the refund time is IF you accept the voucher which then kills off your Rights and then decide on a Refund?
My money is on 1 year.

Not a clue what the official time scale is . But I have friends and neighbours with TUI bookings who have recieved refunds promptly.

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 15:02
If I take cash from my client and I can't provide the service requested, I must refund their money -- not give them vouchers and p*** them about with silly excuses and delay tactics.

very true. Agree 100%. However a lot of people who are online kicking off are people who have holidays booked later in the year. Where there's no certainty one way or another whether the product, in this case a holiday, will be able to be provided. Once the government travel advice changes as we get through the year that will obviously change.

stormin norman
18th Apr 2020, 16:17
Yehaw 22
I would have more faith in TUI if they offered
A refund in full ( if you want one) immediately your holiday was cancelled
Or a future voucher plus 20% or another Holiday- in that order.

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 17:00
Yehaw 22
I would have more faith in TUI if they offered
A refund in full ( if you want one) immediately your holiday was cancelled
Or a future voucher plus 20% or another Holiday- in that order.

I dont disagree. However if you were in charge of an airline at present you would understand that its paramount to a) try and keep money in the business and b) rearrange/retain as many future bookings as is humanly possible.

TUI and jet2 have been far more transparent in this process than many other airlines.

Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 17:22
Even my fave PH company Jet2, with whom we were due to go May12, have what I imagine to be Refund as the last option - 'don't call us, we'll call you' - on Manage My Bookings.
So, NOT so up front and straight.

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 18:07
Even my fave PH company Jet2, with whom we were due to go May12, have what I imagine to be Refund as the last option - 'don't call us, we'll call you' - on Manage My Bookings.
So, NOT so up front and straight.

Have they actually refused you a refund?

Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 18:22
Have they refused you a refund?
No. Its not an option on the page. If you're not having the rebook or credit voucher options available, you have to wait until THEY call YOU.
My point is that it should have been an Option on Day1 of Cancellation.

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 18:27
So you started a thread about tui which was factually incorrect and now your complaining about Jet2 because you haven't had a refund when you aren't due to travel for 3 weeks?:rolleyes:

You do know all these call centres are working on reduced manpower levels at present?

Just be grateful you're not trying to get a refund from Easy or BA.

Bam Thwok
18th Apr 2020, 18:56
So you started a thread about tui which was factually incorrect and now your complaining about Jet2 because you haven't had a refund when you aren't due to travel for 3 weeks?:rolleyes:

You do know all these call centres are working on reduced manpower levels at present?

Just be grateful you're not trying to get a refund from Easy or BA.

I知 with you Yeehaw...... Starts off whingeing about TUI and now moves onto Jet2 ??

What are you really after Flying Hi ?

anxiao
18th Apr 2020, 19:17
A wise UK based CA (not cabin attendant in this case) gave me a quote from the applicable act.

"The period generally specified by the Courts as a reasonable time in which an action should take place is fourteen days. That being the case, payments in respect of the straightforward, uncontested parts of any claim should be in the bank account of the claimant before the expiration of the fourteen-day period.

After that you can let the dogs of war loose and contact their company secretary UFS Director Legal and suggest they get their act into gear. Nicely of course....

I have a similar contention with a large middle eastern airline who seem to be unaware of section 75 but they have at least added "Refund" to their website rather than the original "Voucher" button.

The plot thickens.

Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 19:18
I知 with you Yeehaw...... Starts off whingeing about TUI and now moves onto Jet2 ??

What are you really after Flying Hi ?
Lets start with interpreting the Law correctly..
I only started with TUI because they were specifically mentioned.
I then went on to 'broaden' the discussion to show they were not alone.
No-one has yet explained WHY they can't simply refund the money that is not yet in their Bank but in escrow.

Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 19:21
A wise UK based CA (not cabin attendant in this case) gave me a quote from the applicable act.

"The period generally specified by the Courts as a reasonable time in which an action should take place is fourteen days. That being the case, payments in respect of the straightforward, uncontested parts of any claim should be in the bank account of the claimant before the expiration of the fourteen-day period.


Quite so. Not next year.

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 19:25
Quite so. Not next year.

I ask again. WHO has said you won't get a refund for a year?

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 19:28
Taken from the TUI site took all of 1 minute. No mention of waiting for a year. Even if you do take the holiday credit its Still covered by Atol

If your holiday can no longer go ahead as planned, you値l receive a refund credit for the full value of your holiday, and we値l give you a separate booking incentive up to 20%. We understand that you may not be ready to book again just yet, so the refund credit gives you the flexibility to book your travel in future. Plus, if your original booking was for a package holiday, you値l get a separate booking incentive up to 20%. If you were due to travel before 16 April your refund credit will be automatically emailed to you by 1 May 2020 and if you were due to travel after 16 April you値l receive it four weeks of your departure date.

Also, if your original booking was part of a package, your refund credit will carry the same ATOL protection. You can therefore be confident that you have financial security.

You can read the refund credit and separate booking incentive terms and conditions here (http://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/info/refund-credit-booking-incentive-terms-conditions).

If you池e unable to accept a refund credit you can apply for a refund; however, we池e only able to process a refund for you once you have received your refund credit. You will need to contact our dedicated team using the details below, please be aware that our call centre teams are incredibly busy, so call waiting times are considerably longer than usual. And, please don稚 call if you haven稚 received your refund credit yet as our teams won稚 be able to process your refund. You can call 0203 451 2868 between 9am and 7pm from Monday to Friday.

Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 19:37
I ask again. WHO has said you won't get a refund for a year?
Ok - it is on a stub on Yahoo news where it states 'up to a year'. The text to the article in The Independent now seems to have been editted, although the stub remains unchanged.
Lets see what Reality occurs.
​​

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 19:40
Ok - it is on a stub on Yahoo news where it states 'up to a year'. The text to the article in The Independent now seems to have been editted, although the stub remains unchanged.
Lets see what Reality occurs.
​​

Time for the mods to delete or get rid of this thread, talking crap all based on a snippet of fake news.

Flying Hi
18th Apr 2020, 19:45
Time for the mods to delete or get rid of this thread, talking crap all based on a snippet of fake news.
Fine by me but it was posted in the RUMOURS section, asking for input.

Yeehaw22
18th Apr 2020, 20:17
Fine by me but it was posted in the RUMOURS section, asking for input.

Granted everyone loves a rumour, but the industry is in enough dire trouble as it is without people writing senseless crap. Crap that is easily disproven by simply reading the website statement of the company.

RVF750
18th Apr 2020, 20:54
A certain company mentioned above (the Red Team from Yorkshire) is working on contacting customers by date of travel, so to prioritise the closest bookings. They simply are maxxed out in their work and can only do so much.

Chris2303
18th Apr 2020, 22:27
why? They (package holiday companies) dont actually have your money anyway.

Who does have it then?

fergusd
18th Apr 2020, 22:30
One has an insurance company to deal with shyster airlines. Money in my accout in 2 weeks after cacellation. 1 phone call.

MarcJF
18th Apr 2020, 22:39
After trying every option to convince me to take a voucher TUI eventually reluctantly agreed to refund me, within 28 days. 32 days later no refund, after a good hour on the phone the agent advised that they couldn't do anything, it was 'with accounts'. I was told to write and complain, which i did, and got an auto response that they will review my complaint within 28 days. My holiday would be more or less over by now, the contract was not fulfilled, I should have my refund and i don't - not acceptable from TUI. I had hoped this would be a simple process, sadly it look like i'll need to take it further.

fergusd
18th Apr 2020, 23:03
After trying every option to convince me to take a voucher TUI eventually reluctantly agreed to refund me, within 28 days. 32 days later no refund, after a good hour on the phone the agent advised that they couldn't do anything, it was 'with accounts'. I was told to write and complain, which i did, and got an auto response that they will review my complaint within 28 days. My holiday would be more or less over by now, the contract was not fulfilled, I should have my refund and i don't - not acceptable from TUI. I had hoped this would be a simple process, sadly it look like i'll need to take it further.

Engage everything legally possible to recover your funds, else you will be screwed over, do it now before they find another way to screw you or go out of business, credit card, insurance, the mob, whatever . . . it is clear the airline industry is using your money to prop up it's operation . . .

Douglas Bahada
19th Apr 2020, 00:06
CEO email is your friend.

WHBM
19th Apr 2020, 01:08
Who does have it then?
Who has the money meantime ? An agent of Visa/Mastercard etc called a Merchant Card Processor. See the first post. Because the law requires that the major credit cards are legally liable to refund if the service is not provided, they handle this by not giving the money over in the first place until the event happens, for package operators it is the flight and hotel actually taking place. Mail order places get it even later, there is a process where they have to report when the goods are dispatched. As a business you get to agree the terms (it's rather a one-way discussion) with your MCP when you set up to take credit cards.

If your holiday is cancelled and the money has not been returned apply to Visa etc for a refund. They will get the MCP to do it.

Accountancy bit : Airlines/operators do show the funds held by the MCP for future bookings in their Balance Sheet as Accounts Receivable, so having it refunded does impact on their accounts/creditworthiness, even though the cash is not in their bank.

Phileas Fogg
19th Apr 2020, 05:29
I have booked one flight, that became cancelled, then another flight that also became cancelled, thru Trip dot com, for my refunds they told me 10 business days, then they told me 28 calendar days, then 30 days, then it shall depend upon when the airline returns the money to them, an airline that is notorious for dragging it's heels refunding if at all.

I've told Trip dot com straight that I paid my monies to them, if they have squandered those monies then that is their problem, somewhat fortunately they have a registered office in England so once my bank's call centre may get back to work if Trip still haven't refunded me then I'll take them to court thru 'Money Claim Online'.

Flying Hi
19th Apr 2020, 08:30
Who does have it then?
As above.
​​​​​​

MarcJF
19th Apr 2020, 08:35
Who has it will depend on the business. For example a big company like TUI will most likely be on 3 day settlement of funds, so they get your money 3 days after the card transaction takes place. Smaller businesses may be on deferred settlement with a delay of 30, 60, maybe 90 days. For example they receive 80% of the value in 3 days and the remainder in 30 days. The acquirers all mark risk limits against tour operators and in some circumstances may take security, guarantees etc, but they won't hold onto all the cash else the business wouldn't be able to operate. The tour operator should segregate those funds, but don't. It's like a business taking payment for a pair of shoes, the price includes VAT and the business accounts to HMRC for the VAT usually quarterly. Some don't though and sometimes HMRC lose out. That's business.

ivor toolbox
19th Apr 2020, 09:30
Not a clue what the official time scale is . But I have friends and neighbours with TUI bookings who have recieved refunds promptly.

Under the Package Travel Regulations (ie the law)
it's supposed to be 14 days, however, ABTA have been telling their members not to pay out and give a credit voucher instead, and additionally, that any credit voucher is ATOL protected and guaranteed, however, ATOL have so far not agreed to any such guarantee.

Ttfn

Flying Hi
19th Apr 2020, 09:44
Under the Package Travel Regulations (ie the law)
it's supposed to be 14 days, however, ABTA have been telling their members not to pay out and give a credit voucher instead, and additionally, that any credit voucher is ATOL protected and guaranteed, however, ATOL have so far not agreed to any such guarantee.

Ttfn
ABTA is only a trade organisation and cannot change the Law. And why are ABTA telling Porkies about ATOL protection?
BTW - is it an Offence to entice someone to break the Law?

stormin norman
19th Apr 2020, 12:31
First Choice /TUi
Just tried to amend my on line booking to another date ( as the web site tells me I can ). It then tells me the Holiday is a 'popular destination' and is sold out.
Yet go on line and try to book the same holiday as a new customer and the holiday is for sale .
Who's ripping who off here ?

Ancient Observer
19th Apr 2020, 15:58
In the UK we have a helpful bit of legislation which is normally called Section 75. As long as you spend at least 」100 through your credit card for your flights/holidays, the Credit card Co is just as liable as the vendor. If the vendor does not deliver its contract, just ring the credit card Co., and they will fix it.

flash8
19th Apr 2020, 19:55
As an analogy.

A friend who in the UK has paid his water/rates promptly every month for the last decade or so suddenly found the company had debited a years amount (thousands of pounds) from his account in one transaction soon after the lock-down, with no explanation.

Another friend who had business continuity insurance that clearly states he is eligible and covered has simply been refused compensation by a large insurance company (AIG) who have forwarded him amended terms and conditions that are undated and likely whipped up in the last few weeks. A f--- you to all their policy holders and they well know it, and blatantly illegal, but they'll fight it for years with expensive lawyers to delay paying anything out.

My point is the travel industry isn't any different, they'll screw you as far as they can, pushing the limits and breaking T&C's until the publicity gets too horrendous, and even then many will not back down as the hit would be too great.

It's safe to expect behaviour to be of the worse kind in most cases.

ShotOne
19th Apr 2020, 21:23
This entire thread is sparked by a pack of falsehoods. Refusing refunds for a year? Point blank lie, as attested by several ppruners here. Serve the OP right if they set their lawyers on him. That said, it痴 entirely understandable holiday companies will want to strongly encourage customers to seek a voucher over a refund. This crisis wasn稚 in any way their fault and we値l all want a holiday when this is done.

Bidule
20th Apr 2020, 06:16
This crisis wasn稚 in any way their fault and we値l all want a holiday when this is done.

Not the individuals' fault either. We may "all want holiday" if we are able to still have the money for it, and the persons may have a more important use of the refund when for instance, they lost their job....

.

ShotOne
20th Apr 2020, 10:13
That’s not a valid argument, bidule. Agreed on refund entitlement if a holiday can’t be delivered, even because of circumstances way outside the holiday company’s control. But not because someone finds “a more important use of the refund”.

Royjet
20th Apr 2020, 10:36
Before condemning Jet2 might I suggest you see what happens...... I can tell you from personal experience that they DO WHAT THEY SAY ON THE EMAILS they send you individually..... if you do not want the options offered on line.
I had a courteous discussion with the team member that called me and they have agreed to give me a refund and PROMPTLY sent an email confirmation.
Before making unwanted remarks one should read info sent to you individually and follow instructions. I have dealt with Jet2 on many occasions and have only ever had respect, courtesy and AGREED action between myself and them.

highstreet54
20th Apr 2020, 13:35
We had a holiday booked with BA Holidays. Out of the blue, we had an email saying our flights/ hotel had been cancelled and that they were refunding the whole cost back to my credit card. Took just over a week to hit my credit card. One phone to bank and cash is back in my account.

i had been prepared for a long wait on the phone to get through to BA, but (in my case anyway) all credit to them.

Ancient Observer
20th Apr 2020, 16:12
Anyone sensible would want their money back. If all the travel agents end up bust, ABTA would be bust too. And they cannot tell the CAA/ATOL, what to do.
The UK law is the law in the UK. Travel agents have 14 days to refund folk for cancelled packages. Failing to do that is unlawful.

WHBM
20th Apr 2020, 18:20
That said, it痴 entirely understandable holiday companies will want to strongly encourage customers to seek a voucher over a refund. This crisis wasn稚 in any way their fault and we値l all want a holiday when this is done.
The downside of a lot of vouchers floating about is that they applicable only against whatever price the holiday companies may choose to market at when things restart. If there are all these voucher holders, and a limited number of holidays available at first, the normal supply and demand comes into it, the holidays will be priced accordingly, and those with a voucher from the previous year will then find it only covers half of what the company is now charging.

You find the same thing with corporate discounts (a variant on vouchers) on airfares. Expressed as a percentage reduction they may look attractive, but on routes where such traffic predominates the base price tends to be increased, because so many are going at a discount.

stormin norman
21st Apr 2020, 00:32
First choice /Tui are now offering the same holiday I booked but rolled over 12 months at a new inflated price ( you must pay the difference to get the same holiday you have already paid for)
if this is not highway Robbery I dont know what is.

Bidule
21st Apr 2020, 05:52
The UK law is the law in the UK. Travel agents have 14 days to refund folk for cancelled packages. Failing to do that is unlawful.


https://www.btnews.co.uk/article/15990

.

stormin norman
21st Apr 2020, 14:36
Tui/ first choice have increased the cost of the holiday I booked for June this summer by 24% for the same holiday next year.

Maybe someone who works for TUI on this site can explain this extortionate price hike for paid up customers ?

How can it hope to retain customers doing this

I know I dont have to pay and i won't. It's their jobs not mine.

rant over ..

WHBM
21st Apr 2020, 22:41
Just to show the upside, we were booked on a Jet2 holiday departing March 29th. Some days before departure we got an email saying that it was cancelled and our funds would be fully returned, give them 28 days to do it. Bank statement came today, they were as good as their word, fully refunded, and they beat their target by quite a bit. No need for any chasing from our side at all.

I've always found them an honourable and well-managed company. Funds being kept for when they open up again.

So in response to the original question "What is the truth", that's it.

Hadley Rille
22nd Apr 2020, 01:17
I had a package booked with TUI departing 2nd April. Received "don't call us..." emails prior to that date. Called them on the day travel was due and received a full refund via bank transfer - minus the ATOL fee of about 」8.50
Excellent service. The contract wasn't broken until that day so couldn't expect a refund beforehand.

The Many Tentacles
22nd Apr 2020, 07:19
We had a holiday booked with BA Holidays. Out of the blue, we had an email saying our flights/ hotel had been cancelled and that they were refunding the whole cost back to my credit card. Took just over a week to hit my credit card. One phone to bank and cash is back in my account.

i had been prepared for a long wait on the phone to get through to BA, but (in my case anyway) all credit to them.

We had the same thing, an email saying our outbound flight was cancelled and then another email saying the whole holiday was cancelled with the promise of a refund. That was a few days ago and it's not hit the accounts yet, but I was impressed enough to rebook the same holiday for February next year albeit with a extra night away for a few hundred quid less

I think after this people are going to remember the companies that behaved with decency and they'll do well

ivor toolbox
22nd Apr 2020, 13:44
Anyone sensible would want their money back. If all the travel agents end up bust, ABTA would be bust too. And they cannot tell the CAA/ATOL, what to do.
The UK law is the law in the UK. Travel agents have 14 days to refund folk for cancelled packages. Failing to do that is unlawful.


Correct...but ABTA are telling their members not to refund , as they are trying to get the regulations (law) changed. IE Inciting their members to be unlawful.

While ATOL ,at present, is not providing 'cover' for said refund vouchers


Ttfn

Ancient Observer
22nd Apr 2020, 13:50
As and when the various travel organisers become bankrupt, ABTA will also become bankrupt. ABTA is funded by the travel industry. They cannot tell ATOL/DfT/HMT what to do.
As you say, they are currently inciting members to break the law.
Thankfully, in the UK we have Section 75.

Dave Gittins
22nd Apr 2020, 13:55
It is pretty unlikely that lobbying government for a change in the rules / law will be effective. The law in place at the time the booking was made and the money changed hands is the one that has effect at least that should be the case in any just and honest society.

pzu
25th Apr 2020, 15:07
Family had trip booked for next week (27/4) with Jet2, were contacted beginning of week to confirm cancellation, offered vouchers or refund - opted for refund, OK was response will progress, no mention of timescale; Refund received today 25/4

THANK YOU Jet2.com 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾

Pzu - Out of Africa (Retired)

NoelEvans
25th Apr 2020, 15:30
We've had to cancel a trip to the 'far north west' next month. Calmac have said that rather than delaying bookings, get a refund and then re-book in the future. Their online 'refund' form was simple and should have the money back within 21 days. (We have delayed our various accommodation bookings for a year and all the owners have been very grateful that we still want to come.)

Not actually a 'package' I know, but...

Ancient Observer
28th Apr 2020, 13:59
One place to find "The Truth" is on Trustpilot. One company on there - Riviera Travel, is flatly refusing any refunds. More recently, it suggests that you might get a refund in 12 months time. Riviera Travel is owned by Private Equity - a Co called Silverfleet Capital. They are allegedly worth over a Billion sterling. So they are refusing to use their money to refund people, preferring to boost their cash flow by holding on to money that they owe to their clients. One poster suggested that upset customers should not complain to Riviera, who are, apparently just following their owners instructions, but should complain to the Boss-class of Silverfleet Capital. All of Silverfleet's staff are listed under "Our Team".
I do hope that Gareth Whiley, the boss, is proud of his team's work to conserve their working capital.

Flying Hi
28th Apr 2020, 15:41
One place to find "The Truth" is on Trustpilot. One company on there - Riviera Travel, is flatly refusing any refunds. More recently, it suggests that you might get a refund in 12 months time. Riviera Travel is owned by Private Equity - a Co called Silverfleet Capital. They are allegedly worth over a Billion sterling. So they are refusing to use their money to refund people, preferring to boost their cash flow by holding on to money that they owe to their clients. One poster suggested that upset customers should not complain to Riviera, who are, apparently just following their owners instructions, but should complain to the Boss-class of Silverfleet Capital. All of Silverfleet's staff are listed under "Our Team".
I do hope that Gareth Whiley, the boss, is proud of his team's work to conserve their working capital.
Anyone in this position should simply ring their CC company for a REFUND under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. Simples.
Riviera or anyone else cannot change the Law because it suits them.

ATC Watcher
28th Apr 2020, 17:03
Anyone in this position should simply ring their CC company for a REFUND under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. Simples.
.
except the small print you agreed to when taking up a major credit card generally excludes acts of God like war, civil unrest, Tsunamis , pandemics, etc,, same problem couple of years ago with the Icelandic Volcano.

LanceHudson
28th Apr 2020, 17:48
except the small print you agreed to when taking up a major credit card generally excludes acts of God like war, civil unrest, Tsunamis , pandemics, etc,, same problem couple of years ago with the Icelandic Volcano.

AMEX refunded me, no questions asked, a flight which was cancelled where operator refused a refund. I now have the money and a voucher...

Flying Hi
28th Apr 2020, 17:48
except the small print you agreed to when taking up a major credit card generally excludes acts of God like war, civil unrest, Tsunamis , pandemics, etc,, same problem couple of years ago with the Icelandic Volcano.
Ah, so thats why Jet2 refunded in full. Diffrrent for Riviera is it?
Try Unfair Contract Terms Act then.

ATC Watcher
29th Apr 2020, 11:44
LanceHudson (https://www.pprune.org/members/496520-lancehudson) AMEX refunded me, no questions asked, Very good, was this with standard card or a top one ( platinum or so )? . If true I will use them in future. Visa simply refuses to intervene even with a gold card arguing terms of the insurance contract..

Flying Hi (https://www.pprune.org/members/496711-flying-hi) : we taking credit cards not airlines . Try Unfair Contract Terms Act then. means a letter joining the queue and ending up taking a lawyer whose fees will negate the whole thing. Some airlines know this and play the game to the end. .

Dave Gittins
29th Apr 2020, 13:36
As BA are still saying they are too busy to talk to me, 35 days after cancelling my flight, I issued my Section 75 this morning.

Let's see what happens. At least Barclaycard would accept a message and say they'll be back to me within 24 hours.

geriatrix
29th Apr 2020, 19:53
24 Hours. Barclaycard. No way. It was weeks before I even got an acknowledgement.

LanceHudson
29th Apr 2020, 22:09
LanceHudson (https://www.pprune.org/members/496520-lancehudson) Very good, was this with standard card or a top one ( platinum or so )? . If true I will use them in future. Visa simply refuses to intervene even with a gold card arguing terms of the insurance contract..


Just the basic (free) Membership-Rewards credit card. Customer service has been amazing every time I致e used them (as opposed to my MasterCard...) so I fully recommend it!

Ancient Observer
30th Apr 2020, 14:16
Amex refunded my money when a UK Travel operator refused the refund. Basic Section 75 in the UK. The operator then made the refund sharpish, so Amex didn't lose anything!
There is a long form to fill in if the Operator argues. One needs to be careful with the wording.
I did it all over the phone, the form arrived a few days later, by which time the Travel operator had paid up.
Basic BA Amex card.

WHBM
30th Apr 2020, 15:04
It seems the government, through the Competition & Markets Authority, is going to get involved

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52483453

That's more than aviation - major hotel events for example. But one would have really expected the Dept for Transport to have been forthright on what the legal position is with airline/air holiday refunds. After all, they licence them, and with so many transport operations running minimally, they don't seem to have a lot else to do.

Ancient Observer
19th May 2020, 13:25
An Australian "businessman" Glen Moroney, allegedly owns a TA called Scenic Luxury Cruises and Tours. They appear to be big in Aus and were growing in the UK. In the UK they have 2 brands - Scenic and Emerald.

Emerald cancelled my holiday (BA flight, transfers, and cruise) on 13th May. I found out by visiting their website - no such thing as a phone call or e-mail. Later they sent me an email, saying that they had "suspended" our holiday, and that in a week or so they would write with a Voucher for future use.

I do not want a voucher, I want my cash back. They have had my money since December.

I rang them, quite a few times, and eventually was put in a queue. Like BA, their phones just cut you off. From the queue when I was eventually allowed in to the queue, , I spoke to a Customer Service lady who was quite delightful, but she said she was not authorised to issue refunds, only vouchers.

I was very clear that I wanted my money back.

I asked for the number that I could call to speak to someone about refunds. She said she was not authorised to give out that number. She gave me an email instead. She said that I would be very lucky to hear from them within 11 days. I pointed out the UK legal position about 14 days.

I sent them an e-mail on 14th May. It is now 19th, and they have not even acknowledged receipt of my e-mail.
I am waiting for 28th May, when I will contact Amex for a Section 75. Amex are just so much better than TAs!!

Dave Gittins
19th May 2020, 13:30
Despite the sceptics, my money was back with me from Barclaycard, in full, on 30th April.