So, what do you think?

[Robbiee]

Stumbled across this old video and thought they were bat**** crazy,...!?

https://youtu.be/jH03stFao4k



https://youtu.be/jH03stFao4k

[helicrazi]

Ok, I'll bite...

Some greatly executed autos...

What exactly is it you are squeaking and trying to cause a drama about???

[aa777888]

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze to train stuff like that. You'll ball up more machines in training than will be saved in real life.

[Ascend Charlie]

In the early 70s we used to do zero-speed autos in Hueys, but we kept zero all the way down, not diving like in the video.

Aim point is between your toes in the chin bubble, go through the normal flare height, and when your @rse takes a bite out of the seat cushion, you pull the collective. Amazingly effective. To make judging the "pull" height easier, one instructor suggested drilling a hole under the collective and poking a broom handle through. When the machine gets down to broomstick height, it automatically pushes the collective up! Simples! Tccchhkk!

[Gordy]

Just did these Monday:

We fly in inhospitable places where often times the only place to go in the event of engine failure is real close, hence we teach what I call "hang time". This is where you bleed off speed in an auto and descend vertically then nose forward to get speed for the flare then touch down. The auto has a very steep profile.

Here are 3 videos in the Huey showing the evolution of autos with a new guy to the Huey.

Start with straight ins:

https://youtu.be/11E9Yhf2nCI

Then move on to a 180 auto:

https://youtu.be/Mu1i6QDyYNQ

Then transition to a 180 with zero speed for the turn:

https://youtu.be/jWcR7GlkK2Q

[Robbiee]

Ok, I'll bite...

Some greatly executed autos...

What exactly is it you are squeaking and trying to cause a drama about???

Hmm, no quams about practicing zero speed autos in an R22 from 100'? I wish you were my insurance adjuster!

[Hughes500]

What a difference between UK and USA, over here we always go to the grass not the hard !

[hueyracer]

Hmm, no quams about practicing zero speed autos in an R22 from 100'? I wish you were my insurance adjuster!

That is not a zero speed autorotation in that video.
Get your facts right.
It's an autorotation that is initiated from what seems to be a high hover at 100 feet.

He dives down, gains speed, and carries out a normal autorotation.

A zero speed autorotation is something completely different.

[[email protected]]

Hueyracer - :ok:

Gordy - the only problem with bringing the speed back so far is that to subsequently achieve a sensible flare speed, you are accelerating towards the ground and increasing your RoD - probably fine in a Huey since you have so much energy in the head but it might not be suitable for a robbie. EOLs are the sport of kings though:ok:

[Bell_ringer]

What a difference between UK and USA, over here we always go to the grass not the hard !

far less chance of screwing the pooch and flipping it on asphalt.

[aa777888]

far less chance of screwing the pooch and flipping it on asphalt.
:ok:

..........

[Robbiee]

That is not a zero speed autorotation in that video.
Get your facts right.
It's an autorotation that is initiated from what seems to be a high hover at 100 feet.

He dives down, gains speed, and carries out a normal autorotation.

A zero speed autorotation is something completely different.

Nothing wrong with my facts. That is a zero speed auto.

,...and its not just me who is calling it that, but the super awesome pilot who made the video as well.

[Georg1na]

The thread starter's video states at the beginning that it is a "partial engine failure" therefore no problem........................

[Gordy]

That is not a zero speed autorotation in that video.
Get your facts right.
Agreed. Zero airspeed is exactly that.
What a difference between UK and USA, over here we always go to the grass not the hard !
As others have said...not a good idea to go to grass, especially low timers...there is an article written by Shawn Coyle on this after visiting a "well known" flight school and I showed him many aircraft remains that had come into trouble doing touchdowns to grass.....

Gordy - the only problem with bringing the speed back so far is that to subsequently achieve a sensible flare speed, you are accelerating towards the ground and increasing your RoD - probably fine in a Huey since you have so much energy in the head but it might not be suitable for a robbie. EOLs are the sport of kings though:ok:
Indeedy...have not flown a robbie in over 20 years....these are advanced autos, not for that airframe.
Nothing wrong with my facts. That is a zero speed auto....and its not just me who is calling it that, but the super awesome pilot who made the video as well.
You make me laugh....

[Robbiee]

You make me laugh....

I know,...

[[email protected]]

You make me laugh.... because a zero speed auto doesn't mean you start from zero speed........a zero speed auto could mean you have zero IAS all the way to touch down (ie vertical) relying on just the collective pull at the bottom or that you reduce speed to zero for the actual touchdown using the normal flare technique - neither of which occur in the video.

[[email protected]]

However, after many years of EOLs to grass by UK Mil training (and that is many thousands of EOLs) and only one (to my knowledge) problem caused by the surface, I think the grass is a pretty good option - maybe you just have the wrong sort of grass in the US:)

[nomorehelosforme]

However, after many years of EOLs to grass by UK Mil training (and that is many thousands of EOLs) and only one (to my knowledge) problem caused by the surface, I think the grass is a pretty good option - maybe you just have the wrong sort of grass in the US:)

Crab, as a Brit living and traveling between both countries one of the first things I couldn’t get my head around was the grass in the US, you have Bermuda grass, zoysia and fescue. I’m sure some varieties are probably more suitable than others for a helicopter landing! As opposed to what we have in the UK called grass.

[Ascend Charlie]

And The Cousins call it "Sod" anyway, so it must be bad.

[ShyTorque]

I’ve often thought “Sod it” after one of my landings...

ISTR that in my day RAF rules said that a zero speed auto should be converted to a VF EOL at 300’ agl. I know we used to carry out constant attitude EOLs to the ground at 40kts, which was about the minimum speed that the ASI needle showed any movement, finished off by use of collective only. I think that in many hells, true zero speed to the ground would result in a rather higher ROD with fewer options and more potential for things going wrong. Maybe Teeteringhead can remember?

[nomorehelosforme]

And The Cousins call it "Sod" anyway, so it must be bad.

Damm I forgot that one, USA/ British translation, Sod = Turf, apologies for thread drift!

[megan]

What a difference between UK and USA, over here we always go to the grass not the hardSame in Oz in my experience, always grass in skid equipped, must chew up the skids on hard, or constantly replacing some sort of wear pads.

[Gordy]

Same in Oz in my experience, always grass in skid equipped, must chew up the skids on hard, or constantly replacing some sort of wear pads.
Nope, we have carbide skid shoes. The risk of rollover on grass is too high. We are also doing stuck pedals to the ground, where you may have some minor spin on touchdown---not good on grass. Our Hyd Off maneuvers we bring to a hover, and enter from 100' hover to simulate long lining worse case scenario.

[Hughes500]

Might it be to do with the weight of the aircraft ? I have done over 30 years thousands of EOL's to the grass, biggest ac though has been a 350/355. Also stuck pedals exercises, limited power, have all been sliding across the green grass.
I have always viewed it, that if I was personally jumping off a wall I would always be going for the grass not concrete as it is more forgiving !

[Ascend Charlie]

Over the 45 years I spent in aviation, every touchdown I ever did (and there was a lot), except for one, was to grass. The one to a concrete taxiway generated a lot of sparks from the skid shoes, and comments from the groundies to avoid that in future.

However, comma, I did scare the snot out of myself once when doing autos to grass in a B206 that had pop-out floats. It dug in and rose up on the nose and raised the heart rate somewhat. Engineering inspection needed after that one, but all OK.

[Evil Twin]

Nope, we have carbide skid shoes. The risk of rollover on grass is too high. We are also doing stuck pedals to the ground, where you may have some minor spin on touchdown---not good on grass. Our Hyd Off maneuvers we bring to a hover, and enter from 100' hover to simulate long lining worse case scenario.

Gordy can I come and work for you? Proper training, that's what I like to see. Nice!

[aa777888]

Same for run on landings, always to pavement. Again much less chance of catching a skid if things get a little sideways.

[megan]

The best you can get, autos to water, the most fun to be had


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1418/save0000_816acab882c1abab0afb94b8cd011da5fafad72f.jpg

[Gordy]

However, comma, I did scare the snot out of myself once when doing autos to grass in a B206 that had pop-out floats. It dug in and rose up on the nose and raised the heart rate somewhat. Engineering inspection needed after that one, but all OK.
It only takes one.
The best you can get, autos to water, the most fun to be had

Yes indeedy.....Did many in this one
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1634x977/dscn0029_4469e3696639531b842398bf893ccffd2ff8b6f3.jpg

Interesting how Bell Helicopter will only do hard surface:

"AUTOROTATION TRAINING: All touchdown auto-rotations shall be completed to a hard, smooth surface to allow every measure of safety while the Customer has the opportunity to learn from each such maneuver. "

See Bell Website Here (https://www.bellflight.com/support/training/payment-cancellation-policy/sales-of-training-terms-and-conditions)

[megan]

Flew one of those Gordy with the bags, but never got to do autos with the floats.

[Gordy]

Flew one of those Gordy with the bags, but never got to do autos with the floats.

They are a blast....just got to watch out for "inverse roll" when doing turns is all, and try not to let the nose tuck in the water. I flew this one all over Southern Louisiana doing USGS surveys after Hurricane Katrina.

[RVDT]

Fixed bags are great fun. As Gordy said the “yaw roll” couple can be interesting! I think at night you might be upside down with an engine failure in the cruise before you caught it with the pedals as you will not recover the roll with cyclic in a 206!

Autos to the water are the easiest for sure. Done them in 47, 206 and 205.

Gordy, get back to us with your technique at 9500 lbs! You might find the timing is a little different!

The 205 A1 being a Transport Category aircraft has landing distances “power off” over a 50’ obstacle published in the RFM.

Interesting reading!

[Gordy]

As Gordy said the “yaw roll” couple can be interesting! I think at night you might be upside down with an engine failure in the cruise before you caught it with the pedals as you will not recover the roll with cyclic in a 206!

I would be hesitant to fly floats at night for that very reason....


Gordy, get back to us with your technique at 9500 lbs! You might find the timing is a little different!

This is on our Huey----we are restricted to external load only. Even with full bag of gas, and full fuel extender and 2 pilots, the max weight I can get is around 7,800 lbs.

I do have a 205A++ and yep, full of people in the back, the zero speed "hang time" would remain the same but the acceleration phase would need to be tad higher. Having said that, ROD may be less due to higher pitch angle to maintain RRPM, but only on my second coffee---would need to think about this a little more......

[EvaDestruction]

We did autos from 500' hover in the 206 at the Bell Academy, not 100'. It was tricky then. It's really tempting fate to do it from 100'.

Skid gear in grass will work as long as it stays straight. A little too much sideways and the machine is going over in grass, but asphalt lets the instructor feel more comfortable.

[meleagertoo]

Fascinting to hear all these authoratative N American statements about the hazards of autos to grass- leaving nothing to chance, too much risk of a trip-up, too much hazard etc etc...
I suppose they think that way because as they dont do them they simply don't know the reality...It seems strange that an environment so much more practical aviation minded than Europe can hold such a widespread misapprehension.

In UK and afaik most, if not all of Europe autos are invariably done to grass, never, ever to the hard and we have no problems with it. The tripups our transatlantic cousins seem so fearful of simply don't happen. It's perhaps worth notng that many of our airfields where helo training takes place simply don't have hard runways so even if we did spend out on costly skid shoes they wouldn't be much help.
We also practice stuck pedal and simulated t/r failure to grass as well. Sure, it requires care to ensure you're straight enough on landing but it works and again we suffer no accidents, so why scrape the **** out of runways and expensice skidshoes unnecessarily?

That said, our t/r failure and stuck pedal drills may well be a bit less realistic (or perhaps mpre constrained in the parameters that can be demonstrated) but we do all understand that in the event of a real one we much prefer a hard runway.

[Gordy]

I suppose they think that way because as they dont do them they simply don't know the reality...
In UK and afaik most, if not all of Europe autos are invariably done to grass, never, ever to the hard and we have no problems with it. The tripups our transatlantic cousins seem so fearful of simply don't happen..

Really..... Ask Bristow Academy about that then, all three of these in the same year doing touchdowns to grass. These are the three that Sean Coyle wrote his article about years ago after I showed him:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x960/31a_006_dcbe15291bd8847c334172bd023abc61ca8f36c8.jpg

You can see where the skids were not allowed to spread...
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x675/431_3_165f6074e39dbba94ba4de36824aa9914a93eb85.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/dscn0002_a6825f8cd4a0cc4923f514cf567adf6dad774e29.jpg



Sure, it requires care to ensure you're straight enough on landing but it works and again we suffer no accidents, so why scrape the **** out of runways and expensice skidshoes unnecessarily?


There is no proof of ANY damage other than scrape marks, and the carbide shoes I use have yet to be replaced.


but we do all understand that in the event of a real one we much prefer a hard runway.

THANK YOU for making my argument for me.......:D:D

[trim it out]

Do the skids leave witness marks on hard runways so the QHI can berate you on your fish tailing?

[Robbiee]

Fascinting to hear all these authoratative N American statements about the hazards of autos to grass- leaving nothing to chance, too much risk of a trip-up, too much hazard etc etc...
I suppose they think that way because as they dont do them they simply don't know the reality...It seems strange that an environment so much more practical aviation minded than Europe can hold such a widespread misapprehension.

In UK and afaik most, if not all of Europe autos are invariably done to grass, never, ever to the hard and we have no problems with it. The tripups our transatlantic cousins seem so fearful of simply don't happen. It's perhaps worth notng that many of our airfields where helo training takes place simply don't have hard runways so even if we did spend out on costly skid shoes they wouldn't be much help.
We also practice stuck pedal and simulated t/r failure to grass as well. Sure, it requires care to ensure you're straight enough on landing but it works and again we suffer no accidents, so why scrape the **** out of runways and expensice skidshoes unnecessarily?

That said, our t/r failure and stuck pedal drills may well be a bit less realistic (or perhaps mpre constrained in the parameters that can be demonstrated) but we do all understand that in the event of a real one we much prefer a hard runway.

Well, frankly I find it laughably disappointing that this forum is more concerned about the surface to which one practices autos than with the altitude from which they are initiated (especially in the little, low-inertia, "flimsy copter" as the 22 is often referred) but hey...

You wanna see how far you can stick your dick into the H/V Diagram?,...fine!,...just don't ask to borrow my 22 with which to do it!

As for doing autos to grass. I always flew around the city so,...

What's grass,...? :E

[Gordy]

You wanna see how far you can stick your dick into the H/V Diagram?,...fine!
Some of us call it the "Money curve".....lots of money to be made in there.... And yes, even with an R-22.

[Robbiee]

Some of us call it the "Money curve".....lots of money to be made in there.... And yes, even with an R-22.

I'm sure there is.

,...if you sell replacement landing gear.

[Gordy]

I'm sure there is.

,...if you sell replacement landing gear.
Outside of instruction...... the risk is too high for the rewards. Think outside the box. I personally feel the Schweizer is better for instruction, but that is another story.

[Robbiee]

Outside of instruction...... the risk is too high for the rewards. Think outside the box. I personally feel the Schweizer is better for instruction, but that is another story.

Of course the Schweizer is better for instruction, that's what it was designed for!

,...still couldn't pay me to do an auto from a hundred feet in one!

[RINKER]

I’m no authority on Autos, always practiced with instructor of course.
On one occasion flying an R22 with fixed floats and an instructor we did some to the water
great fun and gentle touchdown.
R

[[email protected]]

Well, frankly I find it laughably disappointing that this forum is more concerned about the surface to which one practices autos than with the altitude from which they are initiated (especially in the little, low-inertia, "flimsy copter" as the 22 is often referred) but hey...

You wanna see how far you can stick your dick into the H/V Diagram?,...fine!,...just don't ask to borrow my 22 with which to do it!

As for doing autos to grass. I always flew around the city so,...

What's grass,...? :E
Robbie - remember the H/V curve incorporates a delay time to allow for pilot reaction to an unexpected engine failure - in the video the instructor is initiating it so there is no delayed reaction time and I just bet he is lowering the lever already before he closes the throttle. Not quite as crazy as you think he is.

I am very happy having done all my autos to grass since that is what covers most of the UK and the chances of finding a runway to land on are minimal unless you are doing circuits at an airport when it happens. If there is any wind and you are light and well practised, achieving a zero groundspeed touchdown is very achievable which removes the risk of rollover.

[Ascend Charlie]

I came to the conclusion some years ago that the huge majority of the training value in an auto stops at the end of the flare. If Bloggs can safely enter auto, turn into wind, look for and find a suitable spot, adjust the flight path to make it to the spot (or if he can't make that one, pick an achievable spot), make a radio call, warn the pax, arrive at "the gate" with the right airspeed and the right RRPM, and flare the bird to make the spot, he satisfies all the requirements.

Actually plonking onto the ground need only be done a couple of times to demonstrate the experience. In real life, sadly, what is under your skids at the end of the flare is unlikely to be a flat, hard surface. A run-on might end up in tears.

So, a power termination is a suitable ending for the exercise. Especially at night.

[trim it out]

Actually plonking onto the ground need only be done a couple of times to demonstrate the experience. In real life, sadly, what is under your skids at the end of the flare is unlikely to be a flat, hard surface. A run-on might end up in tears.
I’m inclined to agree. I can’t be the only person to have gone from EOLs on the airfield to PFLs on a nav trip and misjudged the 20’ AGL min height...👀

[[email protected]]

AC - I agree with the night option, in the real case its always going to be a lottery with or without NVG.

However, training for a power recovery to a safe hover height ends up reinforcing an incorrect picture for what I think is the important bit of an EOL - the cushion. If you raise the lever too soon, especially on a low intertia rotor, you are going to hit the ground hard.

Equally, you are training for the wrong attitude at the end with a power recovery since the hover attitude and the landing attitude will be different - bouncing hard on the back of the skids will definitely make for an exciting finish.

All I ever emphasised on EOLs was to get the skids level and pointing in the direction of travel - if the landing attitude is right then the chances of survival are much higher.

[trim it out]

Are EOLs done on any in service twins these days?

[Bravo73]

Are EOLs done on any in service twins these days?

Nope. It’s prohibited in most ME RFMs.

Leave it to the sim.

[trim it out]

Nope. It’s prohibited in most ME RFMs.

Leave it to the sim.
Thought as much, cheers.

[hueyracer]

Fascinting to hear all these authoratative N American statements about the hazards of autos to grass- leaving nothing to chance, too much risk of a trip-up, too much hazard etc etc...
I suppose they think that way because as they dont do them they simply don't know the reality...It seems strange that an environment so much more practical aviation minded than Europe can hold such a widespread misapprehension.

In UK and afaik most, if not all of Europe autos are invariably done to grass, never, ever to the hard and we have no problems with it. The tripups our transatlantic cousins seem so fearful of simply don't happen. It's perhaps worth notng that many of our airfields where helo training takes place simply don't have hard runways so even if we did spend out on costly skid shoes they wouldn't be much help.
We also practice stuck pedal and simulated t/r failure to grass as well. Sure, it requires care to ensure you're straight enough on landing but it works and again we suffer no accidents, so why scrape the **** out of runways and expensice skidshoes unnecessarily?

That said, our t/r failure and stuck pedal drills may well be a bit less realistic (or perhaps mpre constrained in the parameters that can be demonstrated) but we do all understand that in the event of a real one we much prefer a hard runway.




And there are reasons to it.
In Europe, most Runways are ridiculously expensive, and airport operators are concerned about skids scratching their precious runway surfaces-to a point where helicopters are not even allowed to touch down on the runway during a normal landing...

Then:
The surfaces in most European airports i have been are smooth-this is because many airports have grass landing strips prepared for fixed wing alternate landing sites as well as glider landing areas, while glider planes need a smooth surface as well.....

And:
Most operators don´t want to invest in skid shoes....


Most US-airports i have been too (not that there are too many, so i am only talking out of my limited experience here) have a runway-thats it.
The "grass area" is just an area left from building the runway, and sometimes very rough terrain....

[HBXNE]

Talking about full down auto-rotations to water with pop out floats. This video is from 2011 but no other information. You will have to search YouTube with "A119 autorotations" and select A119 as I do not have enough posts to include the "url".
I assume it was part of the Koala float certification. @ 7:00 it is cringe worthy.
However to the pilots credit he did not try to fly it away.
- Marcus

[ApolloHeli]

Talking about full down auto-rotations to water with pop out floats. This video is from 2011 but no other information. You will have to search YouTube with "A119 autorotations" and select A119 as I do not have enough posts to include the "url".
I assume it was part of the Koala float certification. @ 7:00 it is cringe worthy.
However to the pilots credit he did not try to fly it away.
- Marcus

Here's the link with the video https://youtu.be/_ufiVfJud8Y?t=417

[megan]

Are EOLs done on any in service twins these daysUsed to do autos with power recovery in my day way back when. Surprised one day on a check in a 76 when making the pull at the bottom there was nothing there and ended with a very nice EOL. Something the IP did with all pilots at some stage in the 76, no pre brief either, if all looked good he just didn't put the throttles up in the flare. Thought it incredibly brave of him, he only ever gave you the one in your life though.

[Hughes500]

It is psychological thing for a student. If he knows he can put it down on the ground because he has done it loads of times it means he will be less tense and will probably in my opinion do a better job. As for a power recovery with a 300 that i train on there is more chance of overspending the engine than roll over !

[Bellicose]

Bristow used to run a training school at Galehmorgi in southern Teheran for the Iranian Military in the early 70's.
The UH-1H's used to practice EOL's on a strip to the south and would get through a set of skid tubes in 2-3 days until the Chief Engineer (john Snow) came up with the idea of reinforcing the shoes.
New shoes were fitted to a pair of old tubes and then taken to a local welding shop where they would be built up with 10mm of weld; Stellite from memory and that resulted in much improved life.
Tail rotors used to cop a lot of stone damage and the solution there was to fill up the dents/holes with Metalset A4 last thing at night. Part of the preflight inspection by engineers the following morning would involve sanding the filler down to a smooth profile and off she went.
Pilots didn't like this one little bit but flew anyway; I never heard of any blades failing so proving what a great machine the 205/ Huey was!

[trim it out]

Used to do autos with power recovery in my day way back when. Surprised one day on a check in a 76 when making the pull at the bottom there was nothing there and ended with a very nice EOL. Something the IP did with all pilots at some stage in the 76, no pre brief either, if all looked good he just didn't put the throttles up in the flare. Thought it incredibly brave of him, he only ever gave you the one in your life though.

Is the reward worth the risk if the HP is aiming for a flare recovery to 10’/20’ to find there’s no engine response when they pull the lever and now find (to their surprise too as it wasn’t briefed) they have a bit more height to lose with a decaying Nr?

[Ascend Charlie]

flare recovery to 10’/20’ to find there’s no engine response when they pull the lever

Dunno how you did your power terminations, but our were aiming to finish in a normal 3' hover. Before the flare: in a turbine, we had to have the throttle rolled open to full by 200' agl; in an R22, release the throttle from the detent, small raise of lever to ensure correlator will raise the ERPM too, then lever back down. No surprises there.

[trim it out]

If it was flare recovery at an airfield it was authorised not below 10’. If it was outside of an airfield then not below 20’. If you went down to 3’ then probably not so much an issue if the throttles weren’t opened.

Maybe a CRM point though as we always have a throttle brief so either side can call it if the throttles aren’t called open by a set height to prevent any unintentional running landings 👀

[megan]

Wonder what was taught elsewhere. Flying the Huey at night or IMC conditions that went right to the ground eg fog we did 35 knot autos and ran it on at that speed. In nine years of Huey, Scout, Kiowa autos to grass we never had any issues, the 35 knot touch downs were in fact fun.

[hueyracer]

What do you mean with "35 knots touchdown"?

The huey manual says to not touch down with more than 25 knots due to the risk of ripping off the skid gear... (although this would be the last thing in a long list of things in a real emergency.)..

[Gordy]

Wonder what was taught elsewhere. Flying the Huey at night or IMC conditions that went right to the ground eg fog we did 35 knot autos and ran it on at that speed.

We do that too----35kts all the way down, pull collective about 20 to 50' if you see the ground. Works like a charm.

[[email protected]]

Known in the UK Mil as a constant attitude EOL because there is no flare - yes, good fun to do.

[megan]

The huey manual says to not touch down with more than 25 knots due to the risk of ripping off the skid gear.You're talking to an old timer here, just checked my Huey manual and there is no limitation listed for touch down speed, perhaps your limit is a later addition. In any event, if having to use the 35 knot procedure in the real world being able to walk away, or at least still alive, would be the only measure of success.

[Jimmy.]

What do you mean with "35 knots touchdown"?

The huey manual says to not touch down with more than 25 knots due to the risk of ripping off the skid gear... (although this would be the last thing in a long list of things in a real emergency.)..

Just asking: if you pull the collective at 35kt, what is the airspeed of ground contact, much more than 25kt?

[hueyracer]

That was why I was asking....

[ShyTorque]

Just asking: if you pull the collective at 35kt, what is the airspeed of ground contact, much more than 25kt?

To maintain that low speed, the nose will be slightly high. Pulling pitch to cushion the touchdown tends to reduce the forward airspeed.

A low speed, constant attitude EOL (all the way to touchdown) was the RAF’s recommenced technique for a nil engine, low visibility or night landing.

[Gordy]

Just asking: if you pull the collective at 35kt, what is the airspeed of ground contact, much more than 25kt?
Pretty much less than 25kts.