First Purchase

[tobster911]

Hi all,

Very, very early stages, but looking at buying a Rans S6 (potentially). I haven't done much research yet, but the one I'm looking at is sub £10k.

It is currently classed as a microlight, but I would want to convert it to a Group A and use it for hour building (amongst other things). The current owner says he doesn't think it can be done, but I've seen another S6 that is a Group A.

How easy is it to convert, if at all possible?

Many thanks

T

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Hi Tobster,

The only worthwhile answer will come from the LAA, anything else is guess work. Rans S6 comes in two basic flavours, the ES (Extended Span) variety with 153 sq/ft wing and the 116 with, as you might have guessed, a 116 sq/ft wing. Only ES derivatives can be microlight due to wing loading requirements for microlight certification. There are ES versions flying as Group A, so it's not a problem.

Safe Flying,
WKW

[Genghis the Engineer]

I should be informed by this.

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-investigation-to-rans-s6-esd-modified-coyote-ii-g-myes

G

[tobster911]

Thank you for your responses. The one I was looking at was indeed an ESD, which I've been informed by the LAA cannot be converted to a group A, unless I wanted to spend a significant amount of money.

Ah, G, thank you. That makes for some quite harrowing reading. I wonder if the majority of accidents would happen regardless of the aircraft being flown, or if, in fact the aircraft themselves are inherently unstable and likely to cause accident. The other aircraft I have considered are a Streak Shadow, and a VP-1...

Hmmm.

Many thanks

T

[Andy H]

With respect, GtE, I think you may be over-egging this issue. LAA test pilot (you probably know him!) checked S6 stalls exhaustively and reported back. As I understand it, no further action was deemed necessary. As one of the "stall incidents" cited by AAIB, their comments were IMHO at best ill-informed.
Andy

[Capt Kremmen]

Bags of adverse yaw make it interesting ! Forget the Rans buy a share in an Ikarus, Eurostar, Zenair 701, Savannah or similar.

[xrayalpha]

Rule 1: Don't buy anything without a Rotax 912 or 912S in it.

First, it will save you bags on fuel. Second, you will always be able to resell it.

Two-strokes are unsellable - no-one wants them. They are perceived as less reliable, the days where microlight instructors earned a few bob decoking them etc are long gone, they use more fuel, they are noisier, people can't be bothered mixing fuel (or even topping up injection reservoir), need I go on.

Here at Strathaven, we have decided to ban non-Rotax engined aircraft from being hangared here (with the odd exception for historic or very unusual stuff) to save people from themselves!

Yes, lots of people will come on to tell you how wonderful their two-strokes are, but.....

[Maoraigh1]

"but I would want to convert it to a Group A and use it for hour building "
Consider an LAA Permit aircraft with an O200. Not an exotic one though.
My guess is that the aircraft market will crash for some time after Covid-19 restrictions are lifted - and some parts of the economy will have crashed too.
​​​​​​

[The Ancient Geek]

Two-strokes are unsellable - no-one wants them.

Nonsense - just take a look at how fast a Shadow with a bluetop 582 sells.
There is nowt wrong with 2 strokes, they are more reliable and cheaper to maintain than 4 stroke provided that the owner follows the book on care and feeding them. Ignorant users will find plenty of ways of breaking any engine.

[mikehallam]

Have now done 12 years at 50 hours per annum with a 912 engined Rans S6-116.
It's a delightful real aeroplane with safe short field ability and in which the pilot can enjoy using the controls to retain some skills - rather than the thing boringly virtually flying itself.!
mike hallam (West Sussex).

[Chuck Glider]

Rule 1: Don't buy anything without a Rotax 912 or 912S in it.

Two-strokes ... they are noisier...

Here at Strathaven, we have decided to ban non-Rotax engined aircraft from being hangared here...
By that I presume you mean non 4-stroke-Rotax engined aircraft since Rotax also make 2-strokes, but is the reason for your ban because of noise? Not quibbling, it's your airfield, your rules but just curious.


Consider an LAA Permit aircraft with an O200. Not an exotic one though.
​​​​​​
What would you suggest? A Jodel 1050 perhaps? ;)

[tobster911]

Thank you for all your comments. I've also been considering a Jabiru powered Streak Shadow. Everything seems perfect about it. It is a Jab 2200A 4 stroke with solid lifters, and the mods have been done, so that bodes well I guess.

[Capt Kremmen]

Nonsense - just take a look at how fast a Shadow with a bluetop 582 sells.
There is nowt wrong with 2 strokes, they are more reliable and cheaper to maintain than 4 stroke provided that the owner follows the book on care and feeding them. Ignorant users will find plenty of ways of breaking any engine.
Once upon a time, a talented individual named Richard Noble developed a rather seductive looking aircraft called the ARV Super 2. All metal, high wing, very pleasant to fly. This a/c was excellent for honing your pilot skills - it kept you on the edge of your seat waiting for the engine to stop. All due to an eagerness on the part of the more than wayward Hewland two stroke engine to suddenly become tired and require a rest - at very often the most inconvenient moments.

The ARV was interestingly idiosyncratic. The cockpit was snug and permitted no stowage - not even a clutch of maps/charts. Oil/fuel mix was critical. Plug changes were made at 25 hours. I cut that in half and did mine every 12. In flight terms, I won the lottery. I never experienced an engine stoppage. Others did - quite a number. The inability of the Hewland to do a continuous days work led to much experimentation with alternative engines. The Rotax 912 was the most successful variant.

[Maoraigh1]

"What would you suggest? A Jodel 1050 perhaps? https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif"
​​​​​​For an hour builder, not the Jodel DR1050 my Group are offering for sale. Something with a nosewheel would be better. Or a Cub would resell easier once the hours are done.
My (80% owned) LAA Permit aircraft with O200 and a nosewheel will only be for sale by my Executors if Covid-19 gets me.

[gasax]

Given the current lockdown you have plenty of time to do some sensible research. Looking at the Streak - try and find a reliable pusher installation of a Jabiru engine - this might be one (but that would make it virtually the only one - get evidence!). There is a reason that a number of aircraft turn up for sale and remain available. The aircraft which are advertised and sell quickly do so for a very obvious reason. They represent reasonable value and do not represent potential serious issues.

They are main stream for a reason - there are no better mousetraps. Aircraft designs are hugely varied and full of dead ends. Avoid them!