Saudi’s dirty game against its pilots

[SingleWing]

Saudia is forcing all expat captains to request a six months unpaid leave as of April 15, 2020 otherwise face termination. This course of action is contrary to the labour law of the kingdom. They did this by telephone calls and refused to put it in writing. They wanted it to appear as if the captains are requesting the leave. Very dirty game by an airlines that is celebrating 75 years of service. Shame on the Saudia management!

[slowjet]

From a Country not famed for ever playing a "clean" game, hardly surprising.

[Jack330]

I worked there for a few years and I left, Saudia is one of the most messy airlines in the world, nice airplanes with plenty of MEL every flight, even on new ones, no planning whatsoever for the future. They were waiting for an excuse to actuate the most ridiculous plan ever, SAUDIZATION ! It will never work, they don’t have what it takes to run an airline without expat because they lack professionalism and discipline. Local pilots claim sick continuously and get the best flights.
the pay is not even that great comparing to 5 years ago. The colleagues that are being forced to do this should consult a lawyer all together and pretend that the company follows tha Saudi law without those dirty tricks.

[SaulGoodman]

What did you expect from the Saudi’s?

[Air Swimmer]

Surprise Surprise!

[Air Swimmer]

Do the pilots have any means to go home? The country has already banned all flight in and out. This could be another nightmare to those pilots.

[King on a Wing]

All pilots stuck in the curfew bound cities until further notice. No flights means staying at home. And now no salary means stay at home without family and without work or money.
With Ramadan looming ahead these so called curfews are only going to get worse.
Pilots losing an average of 10-20% of their basic salary every single month due to some miscalculation done half a dozen years ago. All one sided. No explanations ever given !
and now from 15th April, you can either lose your job or take unpaid leave for 6 months. This had been illegalised by the King less than a week ago. Blatant disregard for the Kings decree.

[Romasik]

This is all BS. There is a legal option to leave the company. Go ahead. Go legal. Take another job. It so easy these days and coming years... Plenty opportunities around :E.
They still give you a chance. Obviously Saudia can't afford to pay salaries when airplanes are not moving and oil price is next to nothing. They are even terminating their own pilots older than 58 years, and not taking back their retirees as promised. It's their country. What did you expect?

[King on a Wing]

Which planet are you living in Romasik 🙄
Surely you haven’t been in this part of the world lately

[Python27]

Looks like someone here is aiming for a manager position in the most halal office in the world. Disgusting....

[captamericano]

There are about 60-70 Saudi Captains who just (JAN-FEB) retired and expected to be hired as contractors, making double or triple their income. One is the brother of the actual Minister of Transportation Ex-Saudia DG. Disgusting.

[Jack330]

The locals play with company’s money, doing useless type ratings on new airplanes that only made a few flights (B747-8) now parked and unused.
The first officers are spoiled and absolutely not ready to be captains... Scary times ahead

[atakacs]

This is where Emirates would actually stand off as a considerate and caring operator

[Bidule]

American nationals within the company should consider highlighting these issues to the FAA.

The FAA will do nothing at all, due to wider political context.....
.

[Abdulrahman Al Qirad]

Its the right thing to SAUDIZATION the whole company. 1200 saudi citizens pilots are Unemployed . Thank you SAUDIA AND THANK YOU CAPTAINN FOR SERVING IN OUR COMPANY. I read comments saying that Saudia can not be success without expat . Im gonna say you’re wrong on that and we will handle it without you . If you dont like Saudization then go to ur country and find new job there and one can open his mouth against u

[truejoboffer]

This is all BS. There is a legal option to leave the company. Go ahead. Go legal. Take another job. It so easy these days and coming years... Plenty opportunities around :E.
They still give you a chance. Obviously Saudia can't afford to pay salaries when airplanes are not moving and oil price is next to nothing. They are even terminating their own pilots older than 58 years, and not taking back their retirees as promised. It's their country. What did you expect?


It is not the pilots to go legal because so far is the company that is not doing it and will also be liable criminally by the one that perpetrated and actuated the illegal behaviour.

Pilots have a contract so it is not up to them to leave the company nor to ask for unpaid leave.

Surely if they decide to brake the contract they will have to pay ALL their dues and it is their responsibility to repatriate the crews as per contract. (They will have to put up flights for that purpuse because othervise foreign embassies will get involved and they will lose even more credibilty in the eyes of the world against what that they are trying to build to attract foreigners)

Nobody expected this from a company or a country like Saudi Arabia but I believe that they will find a more sensible and viable solution than this one.

Qatar airways is retaining its crew with a reduction in salary like Emirates and local airlines in Saudi.

Thinking that an employee can remain in Saudi without salary and food away from their family is only something that one would expect in third world countries like Africa.

i hope they will not put up with this. And surely the future behavior will set an example for the future if they will seek foreigners to work for them again.

They promised the moon to everybody before employment but they did not keep any of those promises.

First officers were promised command courses that never materialised, they moved people in different bases without paying any relocation allowance as per contract. The employed crews waited more than nine months to have a dignified accomodation as per contract......

I am confident that this is the opportunity to prove the rest of the world wrong about Saudi I hope for them and for the crews that they will jump on this opportunity.

Surely it would be very different for all the employee, if they are repatriated and agree on a certain time of lower wage during this crisis I am sure that there would be a totaly different commotion about this issue and everybody would accept it.

[RoyHudd]

Saudis don't always fly very well, do they? Some do, older experienced men. Young ones tend to have an arrogance default, especially against 'Westerners'.

[truejoboffer]

This is all BS. There is a legal option to leave the company. Go ahead. Go legal. Take another job. It so easy these days and coming years... Plenty opportunities around :E.
They still give you a chance. Obviously Saudia can't afford to pay salaries when airplanes are not moving and oil price is next to nothing. They are even terminating their own pilots older than 58 years, and not taking back their retirees as promised. It's their country. What did you expect?

It is very bad the way you talk to those guys that sustained the company during ramadan every year and doing the bad flights, obviously this offer of 6 months without pay, by the sound of your words, has not been proposed to You.

Also it looks like blackmail you can go and look for another job really 🙄......I want to remind you a famous say : “on the corpse of the lions the dogs feast....but the lions will always be lions and dogs will always remain dogs”

[SVA Pilot]

Saudia is forcing all expat captains to request a six months unpaid leave as of April 15, 2020 otherwise face termination. This course of action is contrary to the labour law of the kingdom. They did this by telephone calls and refused to put it in writing. They wanted it to appear as if the captains are requesting the leave. Very dirty game by an airlines that is celebrating 75 years of service. Shame on the Saudia management!

The labour law has changed due to the companies NOT able to provide FULL salary without making any money themselves. MOST companies are the world are doing the same. We should help the company that have put food on our tables for years.

[SVA Pilot]

I worked there for a few years and I left, Saudia is one of the most messy airlines in the world, nice airplanes with plenty of MEL every flight, even on new ones, no planning whatsoever for the future. They were waiting for an excuse to actuate the most ridiculous plan ever, SAUDIZATION ! It will never work, they don’t have what it takes to run an airline without expat because they lack professionalism and discipline. Local pilots claim sick continuously and get the best flights.
the pay is not even that great comparing to 5 years ago. The colleagues that are being forced to do this should consult a lawyer all together and pretend that the company follows tha Saudi law without those dirty tricks.

Saudi pilots are more than 95% of the company force and they're fully qualified and professional. Why would a company leave their own citizens unemployed for other expat. I understand if they don't have skilled citizens but this is not the case.

[Jack330]

While I agree with you on the fact that a company should hire his nationals first, I have to disagree on the professional word. I’ve met very professional guys there but that accounts for maybe 20% of the workforce, in Saudi Arabia and in Saudia professional doesn’t exist unfortunately, there’s no discipline at all, almost everyone is smoking in the flight deck during flight, even during refueling, local pilots claim sick continuously if they don’t like the roster or during important holidays, during recurrent training, the one with the swimming pool involved, nobody is actually entering the pool, it’s all a joke.
Have you ever asked yourself WHY the company is hiring expat captains instead of upgrading their first officers ? Think about it and give me an answer.
If the mentality doesn’t change, if the corruption doesn’t stop, Saudia will never be in the TOP 5 Companies and if they want to attract a different variety of passengers, they should start serving alcoholic beverages on board, alcohol is sold secretly everywhere in SA anyways so what difference does it make ?

[Alpha.Bravo]

I think they gave you a hope to return back in 6 months instead of stay at home for a long time!

[Saudi pilot]

Dear expat colleague,
Unfortunate, is vary sad, that after many years of obtaining the best benefit of one of the best contact on the world even better than saudi pilot contact, you start complaining and whispering in such difficult time where world's largest companies have been suffering.
it is the time to enjoy your family and serve your homeland if you meet and find a jobs even with four quarter the income of saudi airline.

[mutt]

Its the right thing to SAUDIZATION the whole company. 1200 saudi citizens pilots are Unemployed . Thank you SAUDIA AND THANK YOU CAPTAINN FOR SERVING IN OUR COMPANY. I read comments saying that Saudia can not be success without expat . Im gonna say you’re wrong on that and we will handle it without you . If you dont like Saudization then go to ur country and find new job there and one can open his mouth against u

I forget how many years I have spent in Saudi, but when I arrived they were implementing Saudization, its a wonderful goal and makes the uttermost sense, however there are limitations, the company is expanding and there are only so many training slots per year for first officers and captains.

If there are still 1200 SAUDI citizens pilots waiting for a job, then one must ask who convinced them to go spend $100,000 on training without having a job offer, Saudia never had 1200 expatriate pilots, so there was never 1200 slots to fill.

[King on a Wing]

As a Saudi, I wouldn't get involved here. People are venting a lot of stress and emotion.

The big issue regarding Saudiisation for expats: The Expats came from other high quality worldwide Airlines to Saudia. No one hired by Saudia was begging on the streets needing Saudia to come along and rescue them. Saudia management through agencies made a lot of promises. First Officers were promised command within 3 years. Captains were promised a rolling contract with a high salary which would take them to retirement.

You have to understand the degree of bitterness when these promises have been reneged upon. Then not only that, Saudia Jettison these Pilots into the worst worldwide aviation situation in history. Getting a job on this occasion is likely to take 5 years or more. These are guys who came from their national carriers to Saudia on a promise.

Well said Polax. So very well spoken, I couldn’t have put it better myself !
Stable and logical thoughts and intel like this is rare on this forum.
Kudos.
I fully concur !
👌

[Mr.pilot320]

I think they are group of hypocrites ,It is difficult to find all highly qualified pilots but Some pilots believe that they will remain in the company for life and if they got Terminated they Discredit her reputationI think most of the pilot hare taking about Saudia airlines they got terminated or did not find job opportunities

A message for all pilots SAUDIA Airlines has the highest salaries and the sweetest life
Stop False talk about Saudi airlines
The bad reputation caused by an irresponsible and irregular and undisciplined person
For non-happy pilots
Leave the company to us and find what works for you

[Airbubba]

Saudia management through agencies made a lot of promises. First Officers were promised command within 3 years. Captains were promised a rolling contract with a high salary which would take them to retirement.

Based on my past experience in the Middle East and elsewhere I'm not so sure I'd fall for blue sky promises like that from any airline. Did you get it in writing?

[fatbus]

Guys are dreaming ! Go ahead and take them to court , hope you have deep deep pockets. Most of the "cases" of pilots sueing (sp) are urban myths.

[truejoboffer]

The labour law has changed due to the companies NOT able to provide FULL salary without making any money themselves. MOST companies are the world are doing the same. We should help the company that have put food on our tables for years.


help doesn’t mean stay away from home fr free...reduction is one thing being treatened termination in exchange of six month unpaid is another !! ..and I am sure sobebody will go to jail for that !! Over there they are serious about things like that...you that is talking, have you got any reduction from your salary due to the law change?? Any how remember what goes around comes around...your arrogance is your biggest problem...obviously your country is not as rich as it portays !! Only lies ... beware of any job offer from that country. ...Top 5 .in their dreams !!


I bet they are also cheating trump with their promises !

[truejoboffer]

This is all BS. There is a legal option to leave the company. Go ahead. Go legal. Take another job. It so easy these days and coming years... Plenty opportunities around :E.
They still give you a chance. Obviously Saudia can't afford to pay salaries when airplanes are not moving and oil price is next to nothing. They are even terminating their own pilots older than 58 years, and not taking back their retirees as promised. It's their country. What did you expect?


I think you should avoid as an exuse motivate your crucked behind the scenes mascherading it as BS...it is you guys not BS and it looks like somebody is going to make you all go to
jail!!

[truejoboffer]

Well said Polax. So very well spoken, I couldn’t have put it better myself !
Stable and logical thoughts and intel like this is rare on this forum.
Kudos.
I fully concur !
👌

I couldn’t agree more !!

And after this experience I hope that they will never be in need of expats again because I am sure no one will believe their promises because even the written ones are not kept.

Aviation is a very small world...very sad really the way that they carried out this ...not even a call to them from their manager of gm ...only a first officer that called all of them !!

obviously even the management were ashamed !

[Fahad1]

I worked there for a few years and I left, Saudia is one of the most messy airlines in the world, nice airplanes with plenty of MEL every flight, even on new ones, no planning whatsoever for the future. They were waiting for an excuse to actuate the most ridiculous plan ever, SAUDIZATION ! It will never work, they don’t have what it takes to run an airline without expat because they lack professionalism and discipline. Local pilots claim sick continuously and get the best flights.
the pay is not even that great comparing to 5 years ago. The colleagues that are being forced to do this should consult a lawyer all together and pretend that the company follows tha Saudi law without those dirty tricks.

If you don’t like the environment or the rules then go back to your country that left you unemployed.
Saudi First
After this Coronavirus, there will be lots of unemployed pilots and the average salary will go down, try to get a new job then! Hint: maybe drive a taxi hahahaha

[Flybywire93]

Alright folks, I get it and I can understand the frustration here but come on, I can see where you criticize management or the hole f*** company and I dont care. But you start cursing our country and our spring chicken first officers who are in their beginning into a long career!! Who the hell are you to say the company will fall apart without ur presence. I know it is not the best airline but for God sake they put food on ur table for so many years and this is how you act when the whole world is facing a crisis!!! I can argue all points in this thread, however it will be useless since I realize how much anger and bitterness roaming inside you captains but this is shame if it clouds your judgment on pals!

[Sam John]

Saudia is forcing all expat captains to request a six months unpaid leave as of April 15, 2020 otherwise face termination. This course of action is contrary to the labour law of the kingdom. They did this by telephone calls and refused to put it in writing. They wanted it to appear as if the captains are requesting the leave. Very dirty game by an airlines that is celebrating 75 years of service. Shame on the Saudia management!


That's great! Thanks for the good news. It's about time. Saudia is for Saudis
I'm glad that we are finally realizing that if you help an ungrateful they always would come back and bite you in the ass.
Super proud of our national carrier Saudia Airlines. Will always use it in the future

[Abdulaziz Z Saber]

I worked there for a few years and I left, Saudia is one of the most messy airlines in the world, nice airplanes with plenty of MEL every flight, even on new ones, no planning whatsoever for the future. They were waiting for an excuse to actuate the most ridiculous plan ever, SAUDIZATION ! It will never work, they don’t have what it takes to run an airline without expat because they lack professionalism and discipline. Local pilots claim sick continuously and get the best flights.
the pay is not even that great comparing to 5 years ago. The colleagues that are being forced to do this should consult a lawyer all together and pretend that the company follows tha Saudi law without those dirty tricks.

good that you left so you can talk nonsense about Saudi pilots like an idiot behind the screen and for your info Saudization will continue and soon all the Saudia pilots will be Saudi’s . Keep boiling idiot .😂

[Abdulaziz Z Saber]

Saudia is forcing all expat captains to request a six months unpaid leave as of April 15, 2020 otherwise face termination. This course of action is contrary to the labour law of the kingdom. They did this by telephone calls and refused to put it in writing. They wanted it to appear as if the captains are requesting the leave. Very dirty game by an airlines that is celebrating 75 years of service. Shame on the Saudia management!

this is normal as all Airlines are affected by this crisis but you don’t see the pilots posting or talking bull**** about their airlines . Simple choice take it or leave it .

[Nuweiba]

I worked in Riyadh and Jeddah for several years back in the 80s and Saudization was a major topic back then. Although the country made huge advances in many different fields, that was one dream that was a dream too far.

But I would not single out Saudia as being the only company around the world trying to lay off staff. Its happening all over the place. Which is why I am sitting at home right now and have the time to read and reply to these threads.

Just to digress.... google old pictures of Saudia Tristars and other aircraft of that era. You will find two different fonts for the name Saudia. Apparently it was changed because some bright spark claimed that the older version had a cross in it between the S and the A.

[Mohammed AlShehri]

As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldn’t be so mean and say you wouldn’t get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )you’re not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now it’s time for saudi pilots to fly in their country,
(one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE)

not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates it’s our business

[FinalFixSv]

While I agree with you on the fact that a company should hire his nationals first, I have to disagree on the professional word. I’ve met very professional guys there but that accounts for maybe 20% of the workforce, in Saudi Arabia and in Saudia professional doesn’t exist unfortunately, there’s no discipline at all, almost everyone is smoking in the flight deck during flight, even during refueling, local pilots claim sick continuously if they don’t like the roster or during important holidays, during recurrent training, the one with the swimming pool involved, nobody is actually entering the pool, it’s all a joke.
Have you ever asked yourself WHY the company is hiring expat captains instead of upgrading their first officers ? Think about it and give me an answer.
If the mentality doesn’t change, if the corruption doesn’t stop, Saudia will never be in the TOP 5 Companies and if they want to attract a different variety of passengers, they should start serving alcoholic beverages on board, alcohol is sold secretly everywhere in SA anyways so what difference does it make ?

Don’t talk about professionalism when It’s funny coming from expats who steal apples and bananas from the galley after every flight. Some of the expats are so cheap they beg for a ride from the Saudi first officers because they don’t want to pay 40 riyals to Uber despite they heavy paycheck.
if you go to expats’ residence in Jeddah or Riyadh you see their fridges are filled with SV catering from water bottles to Tabasco. Even the tissue box they take it from the airplane.
You expats don’t know that we know that you steal even time by playing with the clock and taxi and cruise on very low speed! This is Haram my friends

[Python27]

As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldn’t be so mean and say you wouldn’t get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )you’re not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now it’s time for saudi pilots to fly in their country,
(one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE)

not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates it’s our business

That's the problem of saudis like many other people around : lack of knowledge how things work down in the civilization...

[Airbubba]

Just to digress.... google old pictures of Saudia Tristars and other aircraft of that era. You will find two different fonts for the name Saudia. Apparently it was changed because some bright spark claimed that the older version had a cross in it between the S and the A.

Not the only time that's happened in the Middle East or elsewhere for that matter. A neighboring airline had a Quranic verse in its logo which was printed onto the interior upholstery of new aircraft. Someone decided that it was blasphemy to sit on the name of Allah so the interiors were redone.

[SOPS]

Not the only time that's happened in the Middle East or elsewhere for that matter. A neighboring airline had a Quranic verse in its logo which was printed onto the interior upholstery of new aircraft. Someone decided that it was blasphemy to sit on the name of Allah so the interiors were redone.


Really? Where does it end?

[palegreendot]

As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldn’t be so mean and say you wouldn’t get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )you’re not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now it’s time for saudi pilots to fly in their country,
(one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE)

not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates it’s our business

Mohammed,
it is incorrect to say that Saudia gave a chance. Sounds like some people came to the country and got mountains of gold in exchange for nothing. They came to the place were they had been needed in order to perform certain work in certain conditions for certain money. Such relations are normally called "job". Now some pilots are feeling sad as the airline doesn't want to follow its own regulations and Saudian laws. Do they have the right to complain at least in the internet?

You are talking about salaries. Guess why the salary in Saudia is better than in Europe? Same aircraft, similar procedures...?
This is the market. European guy would never ever go to Saudia to work in the country where human rights are being abused, homosexuality leads to death penalty, etc. I don't want to say that this is bad, it's very unusual for the expats. It is not about politics, it's all about society and culture. They are very-very different. However, neither the airlines nor the pilots offered themselves to each other by force. Contracts had been signed, in a civilized world non-compliance with contracts causes at least disapprobation from people. If pilots violate their contracts, they are normally being punished in accordance with actual Terms and Conditions, and they have only themselves to blame.
So may people who have been following their contracts complain and declare unfair treatment when they want?
Flying widebody aircraft is not only a privilege, it's a hard work that shall be done by professionals. It's understood by airline management and insurance companies. By the way, why do you think Saudi nationals never had chance to fly that aircraft? Health? Experience? Competence? What's their problem in your opinion? And how do you think, why are EU and the US airlines not hiring Saudian expat pilots? The job market of Europe and the United States is full of professionals ready to demonstrate their experience and competence, so guys with 5000+ TT and jet experience can hardly get captain job of A320/B737. At Middle East they can become widebody captains. What's the trick, how do you think?

The expat pilots (like all human beings) are not designed to like something they don't want to like, but they don't become less professional when tolerating East.
Excuse me, I'm not sure if anyone said that he is worried about Saudia survival. Honestly speaking, very few care, IMO. People just want their contracts to worth something more than the paper on which they are written. As for me, I would like to hear someday that Saudia aircraft are flown by the locals.
But! From you, not from avherald.

[kungfu panda]

As an unemployed saudi pilot ,I would like to say to all none Saudi pilots whom complaining a lot and talking bad about my country and Saudia Airlines, Saudia gave you a chance to earn flying hours and many type rating such as 777 and 787 and 330 as well while most Saudi National never had the chance to do so,
I wouldn’t be so mean and say you wouldn’t get a large salary like you did in saudia and never dream of being Captain in your countries, just be thankful and now you all have what you came for ( flight time ) (not for loving Saudia neither saudies )you’re not lost go back to your countries with what saudia honored ,you will find jobs , Now it’s time for saudi pilots to fly in their country,
(one last thing I WOULD to say thank you FOR your SERVICE)

not your business if Saudia can or cannot survive without expatriates it’s our business

Hi Mohammed. I started reading your post thinking that you would write with some understanding and sympathy to the expat guys who've been terminated. Under current circumstances most of them will not get another job as a Pilot for several years. Your post disappointed me.

You need to understand that a lot of the unfair criticism is born of emotion and frustration in a terrible personal situation. It was unfair of you to reply to these guys in the manner which you did.

The expats were persuaded to come and work at Saudia by Saudi's. The persuasion included a lot of promises. Those promises were entirely reneged upon. Therefore bitterness should be understandable.

I enjoyed my time working at Saudia. I believe 99% of all the Saudi's who I worked with were Gentlemen, intelligent and very capable.

[Airbubba]

Really? Where does it end?

There is just as much political correctness in Western airlines in my view, it's just different.

A brown cargo operator put its Worldwide Services boast on the side of a new aircraft type years ago. With the main cargo door open it proclaimed 'World vices'. That livery was redone I'm told.

[kungfu panda]

As a Saudi, I wouldn't get involved here. People are venting a lot of stress and emotion.

The big issue regarding Saudiisation for expats: The Expats came from other high quality worldwide Airlines to Saudia. No one hired by Saudia was begging on the streets needing Saudia to come along and rescue them. Saudia management through agencies made a lot of promises. First Officers were promised command within 3 years. Captains were promised a rolling contract with a high salary which would take them to retirement.

You have to understand the degree of bitterness when these promises have been reneged upon. Then not only that, Saudia Jettison these Pilots into the worst worldwide aviation situation in history. Getting a job on this occasion is likely to take 5 years or more. These are guys who came from their national carriers to Saudia on a promise.

Accurate..

[Romasik]

I think you should avoid as an exuse motivate your crucked behind the scenes mascherading it as BS...it is you guys not BS and it looks like somebody is going to make you all go to
jail!!
What language are you talking?

[Mohammed AlShehri]

Don’t talk about professionalism when It’s funny coming from expats who steal apples and bananas from the galley after every flight. Some of the expats are so cheap they beg for a ride from the Saudi first officers because they don’t want to pay 40 riyals to Uber despite they heavy paycheck.
if you go to expats’ residence in Jeddah or Riyadh you see their fridges are filled with SV catering from water bottles to Tabasco. Even the tissue box they take it from the airplane.
You expats don’t know that we know that you steal even time by playing with the clock and taxi and cruise on very low speed! This is Haram my friends
that’s the point being unthankful here we go , well go back to your country then where you can’t even afford you uber ride’s money

[metro301]

This thread has lots of first time posters with interesting opinions :D LMAO

[Airbubba]

This thread has lots of first time posters with interesting opinions :D LMAO

Agreed, and this guy's English is suspiciously good for a pilot. But I have to laugh, he has certainly seen some expat pilots in action. :ok:

Don’t talk about professionalism when It’s funny coming from expats who steal apples and bananas from the galley after every flight. Some of the expats are so cheap they beg for a ride from the Saudi first officers because they don’t want to pay 40 riyals to Uber despite they heavy paycheck.
if you go to expats’ residence in Jeddah or Riyadh you see their fridges are filled with SV catering from water bottles to Tabasco. Even the tissue box they take it from the airplane.

[captamericano]

Ponzi Scheme at SVA planners: How it works

The Ponzi scheme how it works: good flights LHR 42 hours, IAD 52 hours layovers, etc.. etc, were hidden under office boys roasters, then redistributed among the Ponzi scheme B777 Captains and F/O the crew got the good layovers and pays the planners the amount of the perdiems, at a rate of SR25 per hour. Deposit at the bank account!!!!!

[ChocksOn]

All those years in English classes have finally paid off! Looks like the bots are in full force here.

[RoyHudd]

There is this prevailing attitude in the West and the Far East, oh, and South America too, that Arabs are untrustworthy.

Shame on them all. The Arabs were the original slavers, and they are simply continuing their traditions. UAE building workers, Filipina maids, American pilots. None are treated any differently. It is the custom of the slave owners and overseers.

Mind you, flying in an airline flown only by its nationals, that could pose a problem for many passengers once the safety records start being broken.

We all have a choice in such matters. Flying for/with Saudia? Caveat emptor.

[kungfu panda]

its very funny how people are very brave behind there screens and fake names
there is an old saying : give a man a mask and he will show you his true face
i'm not gonna talk about all the benefits that the expats are getting even if they don't deserve half of it and did't dream of it in their wildest dream ever before coming to work for SAUDIA.
I'm not gonna say go back to your countries and find jobs as a pilots because if you were a good pilots you will have a job in there and stay with you families.
i'm not gonna say how unprofessional expat pilots are, they don't do any thing in the flight .. oh wait they do I'm sorry, they eat sleep taxi and play with the clock.
i'm not gonna say how a lot of expat pilots don't know how to fly and the first officers always correct them.

but let me simplify things for you:
-the whole world is going thru a very big crises
-airlines suffocating due to no income
-people are dying from this virus
-companies are closing
-schools and colleges closed
-a lot of airlines letting people go for good
and you guys crying and wiping abut your 6 months of unpaid leave, you should be thankful for not letting you go because the most important thing for the airline now is to survive
I under stand that is a bad situation for you but sometimes bad things happens forces us to priorities the things we need.
i'm pretty sure that there something in the contract about force majeure. all the world is suffering not just you

ps: I didn't write my real name because I'm as much pu$$y as you :D

اذا اكرمت الكريم ملكته و اذا اكرمت اللئيم تمردا

That's a reasonable post. I'd like to make a couple of points which I disagree with:
1. I think most of the guys given the 6 months unpaid leave are happy with that but people have questions. Nobody to answer.
2. The standard of all of the expats is high by international standards. This kind of criticism is clearly unfair.
3. Saudia management were aggressively recruiting expats until 2016 then aggressively jettisoning them from 2017. You cannot suggest that this is reasonable.

I do understand the Saudi Pilot's argument. It is reasonable. Why hire foreign pilots when there are unemployed pilots at home. I agree. But Saudia did and rather than living with it, Saudia have turned ruthless against their expat employees.

[fatbus]

GS, This is a big joke ,right?

[Mach E Avelli]

Great Saudia (handle says it all) forgot to justify forced marriage, marriage to minors, polygamy and female genital mutilation.
It is quite scary to think someone so deluded and deranged is allowed anywhere near aircraft.

EDIT: this post may not make much sense now, but it is a comment in reply to a religious and xenophobic rant by Great Saudia - which in turn provoked some home truths from other PPRuNers (all posts since deleted). Read between the lines.

[atila_101]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x396/309667_133110043516222_2134137881_n_f3e14aee094686dd39f7da24 f796144bac95b132.jpg

[ojwings]

As a human being, I don’t accept all the insults to any of my colleagues either saudis or not. It was a bad quote regarding non Saudi pilots are taking stuff from aircraft; ALL CREW AND STUFF OF SAUDIA ARE DOING THIS A BOTTLE OF WATER OR A MEAL. All the catering after flights is garbage. So , please we should not accuse our colleagues with stupid stories. I hope this crisis will be over soon. My sincere sympathy to all our colleagues who will go for 6 months unpaid leave. SAUDIA has no choice and I believe and hope it s the best for all. I hope and pray it will be over by June or July and all airlines will start flying at least at 50%. Again my full respect to all my expat colleagues. It s always a huge rich experience with in all aspects of life. WE ALL WILL BE FLYING SOO. GOD BLESS YOU SND YOUR FAMILY.

[Romasik]

As a human being, I don’t accept all the insults to any of my colleagues either saudis or not. It was a bad quote regarding non Saudi pilots are taking stuff from aircraft; ALL CREW AND STUFF OF SAUDIA ARE DOING THIS A BOTTLE OF WATER OR A MEAL. All the catering after flights is garbage. So , please we should not accuse our colleagues with stupid stories. I hope this crisis will be over soon. My sincere sympathy to all our colleagues who will go for 6 months unpaid leave. SAUDIA has no choice and I believe and hope it s the best for all. I hope and pray it will be over by June or July and all airlines will start flying at least at 50%. Again my full respect to all my expat colleagues. It s always a huge rich experience with in all aspects of life. WE ALL WILL BE FLYING SOO. GOD BLESS YOU SND YOUR FAMILY.
Thanks, Brother.

[kungfu panda]

As a human being, I don’t accept all the insults to any of my colleagues either saudis or not. It was a bad quote regarding non Saudi pilots are taking stuff from aircraft; ALL CREW AND STUFF OF SAUDIA ARE DOING THIS A BOTTLE OF WATER OR A MEAL. All the catering after flights is garbage. So , please we should not accuse our colleagues with stupid stories. I hope this crisis will be over soon. My sincere sympathy to all our colleagues who will go for 6 months unpaid leave. SAUDIA has no choice and I believe and hope it s the best for all. I hope and pray it will be over by June or July and all airlines will start flying at least at 50%. Again my full respect to all my expat colleagues. It s always a huge rich experience with in all aspects of life. WE ALL WILL BE FLYING SOO. GOD BLESS YOU SND YOUR FAMILY.

Thanks God.... Somebody talking with Intelligence and compassion.
It's the First Officers that need the most consideration.

[King on a Wing]

About 50 first officers and about 45 captains prematurely terminated in these trying and taxing Covid19 times. With no other airline or company willing to recruit them due to heavy jugular bleeding themselves.
You call this Fair or Just ?
I call it CONVENIENCE. Just like everything else that saudia does. Treat everything and everyone on the same platform. Like an unpaid BIT@H.,,!!
At the very least I call it HARAM.

And someone somewhere shall pay for it.

[Great Saudia]

About 50 first officers and about 45 captains prematurely terminated in these trying and taxing Covid19 times. With no other airline or company willing to recruit them due to heavy jugular bleeding themselves.
You call this Fair or Just ?
I call it CONVENIENCE. Just like everything else that SAUDIA does. Treat everything and everyone on the same platform. Like an unpaid BIT@H.
At the very least I call it HARAM.
And someone somewhere shall pay for it.


Well, I think from what I heard that Saudia also is suffering as all other airlines in this Corona Crisis. So, if any airline in the world would think of letting go of employees, of course those would be the expats not the locals because if they chose the locals, the union or the media will criticize that.

besides, Saudia according to what I know was used to pay the highest to the expats. Especially, the re-contract bonus, and the kids education to homeland schools that some took advantage of that to earn more. So, maybe the airline decided that enough is enough, especially SAUDIZATION is a must by end of 2020 by force from higher authorities.

To all Saudia expats, lets be mature and stop insulting the airline by calling and mentioning bad words, remember that the airline hired lots of jobless pilots and has given pilots alot.
So, Stop misleading others by accusing local pilots of being lousy and accusing local co-pilots of being bad and not ready for command. All airlines know what is right for them or wrong, they care about Safety, and High level of Safety was never related to having more expats in an airline.
And instead of Mourning your Luck, You better from now on think of solutions for you and look for somewhere else in the world.

In brief, It is crystal clear, that all airlines are suffering, so they make pay cuts, they force people to leave, or they shut down and collapse, so take it or leave it.

[King on a Wing]

Every ‘other world’ airline follows basic humane rules of employment and termination.
The termination clause used to be just a simple formality that was inserted decades ago by bean counters and lawyers.
More a myth than a reality.
SAUDIA has managed to make it a very stark reality !
And what a sad time to do it. When pilots needed some little form of assurity if nothing else.
Something like kicking a dying man on his hospital bed !

Baxo Peace
☠️

[The Outlaw]

And instead of Mourning your Luck, You better from now on think of solutions for you and look for somewhere else in the world.

In brief, It is crystal clear, that all airlines are suffering, so they make pay cuts, they force people to leave, or they shut down and collapse, so take it or leave it.

One day your words will come back to bite you squarely in the ass. Think carefully about the words you choose habibi, you may find yourself in the same position one day....and soon.

[Nuweiba]

The Arabs were the original slavers...

Really.... your lack of historical knowledge is so obvious ! Slavery has been around since thousands of years, across the whole world. Every empire that has risen has used some form of slavery. From Asia to Africa, in the Americas and in Europe.

[Nuweiba]

Great Saudia (handle says it all) forgot to justify forced marriage, marriage to minors, polygamy and female genital mutilation.
It is quite scary to think someone so deluded and deranged is allowed anywhere near aircraft.

EDIT: this post may not make much sense now, but it is a comment in reply to a religious and xenophobic rant by Great Saudia - which in turn provoked some home truths from other PPRuNers (all posts since deleted). Read between the lines.

Indeed... your post is also absolute senseless nonsense ! Sounds like the mad ramblings of some right-wing KKK Christian fanatic ! FGM pre-dates Arab civilisations and Islam by hundreds, if not thousands, of years, originating in Africa and not Arabia. Polygamy is practiced in many different religious societies around the world, ( even if the national governing laws prohibit it ), as forced / arranged marriage is as well. Under-age marriage is still legal in many parts of the world - a quarter of the States in the U.S.A. have no minimum age for girls to marry, and the age of consent in well over a dozen European countries ( including Germany and Sweden ) is only 14 or 15.

I hope nutters like yourself stay away from aircraft !

[RoyHudd]

Nuweiba, get a grip. And read some of your history. The first written reference to slavery is in the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi back in 1860 BC. Slavery was practiced by the Sumerians as far back as 3500 BC. And the massive trade of over 17 million Africans to Arabia and then more widely was orchestrated by muslim arabs from various regions of what is now the Middle East. To be fair, this trade existed in pre-muslim Arabia, going back to the times I referenced earlier.And in Saudi Arabia, slavery was officially banned in 1962, after pressure from Great Britain.

[Nuweiba]

Nuweiba, get a grip. And read some of your history. The first written reference to slavery is in the Babylonian Code of Nammurabi back in 1860 BC. Slavery was practiced by the Sumerians as far back as 3500 BC. And the massive trade of over 17 million Africans to Arabia and then more widely was orchestrated by muslim arabs from various regions of what is now the Middle East. To be fair, this trade existed in pre-muslim Arabia, going back to the times I referenced earlier.And in Saudi Arabia, slavery was officially banned in 1962, after pressure from Great Britain.

Your post only reinforces my claim that your knowledge is somewhat lacking. It’s Hammurabi and not Nammurabi. You can not consider the Babylonian Empire to be part of Arabia any more than you would consider Ancient Egypt. And slavery existed around the world thousands of years before the first written records of slavery - in fact, slavery existed thousands of years before writing in any form was established ! It is you who needs to get a grip and stop being so biased !

[fatbus]

Mate , give it a rest ! ME is notorious for not honouring contracts . Most expats know that before going .

[sheikhthecamel]

By far the most entertaining thread on this site... much needed these times ... keep it up chaps!
Joking aside, my commiserations to any pilot losing their job these days - be they expats, Saudi's or others.

As Fatbus pointed out, any expats taking on a job in the middle east are fully aware of the risks and conditions - that is why you are being paid a premium for working there. Complaining about it ex-post is unseemly and disingenuous. Personally I enjoyed my time in Saudi, and the vast majority of the Saudi's I met were stand-up people. Although I had my share of "unexpected" experiences, I'm not bitter and I hold the country in great affection. I've certainly met more bad apples on the streets of London, Paris, LA, etc...

[lucille]

Been an expat for 40 years, including 10 years in JED. One thing I have learned is that stereotyping people based on their nationality never works. Pretty much all humans are equal. Good apples and bad apples come from every harvest.

Living in Jeddah was fun, the lack of alcohol was not an insurmountable problem, the diving, sailing and golf was pretty good and the social life was most excellent. We had fun and really enjoyed our time and still hold fond memories of KSA and our many Saudi friends.

The nastiness displayed in this thread does not do anyone any favors. Worse still, it makes the profession look pretty low class.

ps... is that old sand golf course (Desert Lakes Golf Club) just north of the airport still there? Please don't tell me its been converted to yet another shopping mall!

[Lucifer786]

Seems like you were in Jeddah pre dinosaur era lucille.
No offense meant, but after centuries of greedily living off of the hard earned money of poor( sometimes very poor )pilgrims coming to Mecca for Haj and, decades of making easy oil money from the taxpayers of the world, all of this must come to an end.
It’s time the hunter became the hunted and the tables were turned.
The free oil tap has now been cut off, the fake tourism in the name of religion into Mecca has been shut down and one of their major free consumers of oil ie Saudia Airlines has been brought to its knees.
If this doesn’t teach the SAUDI Arab a lesson in humanity and its power, then I’m afraid he will only learn when he has to eat sand for breakfast followed by a stiff drink of the now useless crude oil and then a visit to an empty mosque in Mecca.
Combined with stratospheric egos, corruption in their DNA and an unmatched greed for money, this nation settling into the nameless shifting sands vey soon as just another unmarked giant dune is simply inevitable.
Nature strikes back and it’s time to pay !
The price may be too heavy for some I fear.
I however even now pray that they learn to be humane before the hand of allah strikes them their final blow.
Getting bad curses and worse duas from 3-400 expat pilots losing their jobs at a time like this isn’t going to help their cause much I’m afraid.

Es hora de sentir el dolor.

[King on a Wing]

I would agree with that completely Lucifer. In fact many pilots in Saudia are considering international legal action against the airline on grounds of its racist approach towards some pilot communities and issuance of termination letters to some whilst awarding no pay leave to others.
This is a huge tsunami just waiting to engulf the airline now !

[fatbus]

Good luck to them . I hope they have lots of cash , laywers love cash . You honestly think they have a case . " fine print "

[metro301]

I would agree with that completely Lucifer. In fact many pilots in Saudia are considering international legal action against the airline on grounds of its racist approach towards some pilot communities and issuance of termination letters to some whilst awarding no pay leave to others.
This is a huge tsunami just waiting to engulf the airline now !

This has to be the best humour I have read all week. A huge tsunami.... LMAO. As opposed to the near total shut down of the airline?

Termination versus Unpaid Leave appears more to do with fleet type than nationality. I feel for anyone effected, just not seeing a race issue.

[King on a Wing]

This has to be the best humour I have read all week. A huge tsunami.... LMAO. As opposed to the near total shut down of the airline?

Termination versus Unpaid Leave appears more to do with fleet type than nationality. I feel for anyone effected, just not seeing a race issue.
You seem to know more than I do obviously. What fleet FCM would be terminated and what fleet put on UPL in your opinion.
Just curious.

[metro301]

IMHO... 330 Guys are an endangered species at the airline, they were not flying much before covid.
320 expats were offered UPL, domestic ops shut down last and will most likely start up first. There was high demand before covid.
777 is a coin toss.

[captain.weird]

Which compound do the (expat) guys stay? Or is it possible to get the housing allowance?

[King on a Wing]

Saudi City

[Jack330]

As far as I know all the expat were transferred to Riyadh in a nice compound called Marvela, even the guys in Jeddah, almost 90% of them, all to Riyadh, I stayed in a Hotel in Jeddah for 1.5 years then the sent me to RUH in Marvela mandatorily.
They tried to offer money instead of accomodation but the process failed because they were offering 400 USD a month only so nobody applied.

[fatbus]

There may be no recovery! Saudia is not any different than most global carriers. Grim outlook for years to come . It's a harsh reality check . Standby for more contact / expat airlines to chop their pilots numbers indefinitely.

[kpd]

the guardian reports not just airlines could be affected=

Saudi Arabia has given private businesses a green light to cut salaries by 40% and terminate employment contracts, citing economic hardships caused by the pandemic.

The measures, which take effect immediately, allow for employees to be laid off after six months of reduced salaries – the effect of which is set to slash household incomes.

[Lucifer786]

WHICH is EXACTLY what SAUDIA intended when they “offered” this No Pay Leave for 6 months to all its pilots.
Because now the ‘Termination without cause’ clause kicks in and interestingly the notice period for that clause is ZERO days notice and / or salary in lieu i.e Zero Days salary !! 🤬

[finestkind]

I see from the majority of post things have not changed that much with the mental attitude and level of maturity of the locals. For those of you that have children, you know what it is like trying to reason with a five year old. For those that don't have children here is your first hand experience of how a five year old responds to reason.

[finestkind]

Locals and AA Qirad. Perhaps you should look at why the remuneration is so good.

[Python27]

it’s okay no hard feelings :) , I wish you all the best in your home country , where ever you are from :) .. with us we always can replace one person I’m sure 😘

Couldn't be more local...

[fatbus]

Just remember, most locals ars stuck in there countries. We expats can leave when the bucket is full.

[finestkind]

LOCALS. Thankyou. I dare say that one person you can easily replace will be with another xpat.

[finestkind]

LOCALS. A couple of points. It's not the salary that is being criticized it is the possible reduction or other issue that will bring into question on whether Saudair is a worthwhile employer. Secondly if you believe that you can attract professionals at the highest level without paying them accordingly, for not only the work they do but the conditions they live under, or renege on the contract I think you will find that pool of talent unavailable.

[fatbus]

It's safe to say those that hale from the ME truely believe the world revolves around them . For decades they have needed expertise from the western world , emiratization is a prime example of a failure. LOCALS believe what you want and continue to ignore the facts , it makes no difference to me or any other ME expat . Two bucket mate!


ps : not replaced yet ! Wonder why ? Lol

[palegreendot]

Lucifer786

It is hard to describe that place more correctly. History has seen a LOT of lessons for such cultures, but old books are not for progressive arabian muslims.

[FlyingCroc]

Good so far you were lucky just pushing buttons flying from A to B.

[finestkind]

LOCALS if it was just a matter of pushing buttons to get from A to B then there would be no accidents.

[finestkind]

palegreendot. There is a saying "my father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son will ride a camel" The expectations is that the wheel will turn. There is no humility when you believe in your own righteousness no matter what occurs.

[fatbus]

Locals, no maid , no nanny just topping up the money bucket !

[Romasik]

Having read some thoughts here I started doubting that civilization implied culture ...

[Mike_Alpha99]

First of all it's heart me so bad to hear about what happened to Saudia expats, and i really want to ask the saudis to ( not meet abuse with abuse ). We have to understand as a human being
what all these people and their families have been through and what they are going through, as simple as it is it could be US instead of them !. personally i had the pleasure to fly and learn from them and it will be always. from them i have learned how to appreciate everything from them i have learned how to become a better pilot. my apologies and regret to everyone

[fatbus]

Live and learn ( the hard way) if you work in the ME!

[Jemmy Faisal]

Well , during the normal situation you have been working with no issues . This time most companies are facing issues because of COVID 19 , and they have to take an action toward this otherwise the company will face bankruptcy. I think you should be thankful that you have the options to take unpaid leave or get terminated. on the other hand , when it comes to professionals , Saudis have very well qualified people on different professions . Stop pretending that Saudi economy will run slower without expats .

Thanks

[Turki Alsamer]

Firstly, we did not see a single Saudi working for the airlines of your country, secondly if it was as bad as you claim then why did not leave it to get another job, thirdly the Saudis worked to provide oil to the world through Aramco and for decades , Are you sure we could not run an airline !!

[fatbus]

You might want to rethink your post !

[Lucifer786]

Turki Alsamer

Words fail me here so I’m sorry but … Hahaha
Priceless and only too common, Arab egoistic stupidity combined with a very real facade of a pseudo non existent ‘superior’ personality is what the dumbest persons on this planet are normally genetically made of.
And SAUDIA leads this looney bunch by a country mile

[Cp10.Hawk]

Saudia is forcing all expat captains to request a six months unpaid leave as of April 15, 2020 otherwise face termination. This course of action is contrary to the labour law of the kingdom. They did this by telephone calls and refused to put it in writing. They wanted it to appear as if the captains are requesting the leave. Very dirty game by an airlines that is celebrating 75 years of service. Shame on the Saudia management! As a proud saudi citizen (just like any other citizen) and a US pilot graduate, I'd like to say it's a necessary move to expat pilots.
Saudia airline/sacm paid for my bachelor's degree as well as the FAA pt. 141 pilot license and many others like myself due to the SAUDIZATION (just as many of yall worded it) in the industry. This pandemic has made a very soon future decision an immediate/necessary one, nothing more.
I believe there's nothing wrong with a country trying to improve itself socially and in everything (improve to change, and change to improve) We as saudis (its time) have to step up and take responsibility for all professions and jobs to work hard and prove that we deserve our offered free education domestically and overseas which we used to have all these years (and we get paid for going to school btw). In other words, it's not easy even for us as saudis to fill up every job in every field with not that much of an experience generally speaking, but as a prime rule for having a thriving organization/community we'll let a small loss take place instead of a big loss (long run goals - - vision2030)

[fatbus]

Hawk , one question , why did Saudi ( you country) have to send you to the states ?

786, excellent post

[Cp10.Hawk]

Because at that time we had no flight schools in the country,.. However due to the high demand and development in the field, now there's more than one flight school, and more than one airline. We're kind of late but never too late for a change.

[fatbus]

Hawk , small hint mate , I knew the answer!

[finestkind]

Firstly, we did not see a single Saudi working for the airlines of your country, secondly if it was as bad as you claim then why did not leave it to get another job, thirdly the Saudis worked to provide oil to the world through Aramco and for decades , Are you sure we could not run an airline !!

Hmm your first point. Saudi's not working for other airlines. You might want to have a think of why that is. Second point, it is about remuneration being so good (and even when it is there are a lot of pilots who will forgo that enticement to have a normal lifestyle). Ask yourself why, but you will probably have to be told. Third point. Saudi's worked to provide oil to the world. If that was the case you would not have needed expats to do the work.

[LNAV VNAV -]

How come Saudia didn’t renew at least 60 Saudi Captains’ contracts but has kept all the Flyadeal expat captains with their salary untouched?

[etrang]

Keep this thread open please. No good will come from censoring free speech.

[etrang]

You might want to rethink your post !

Or at least try and write it in English.

[metro301]

How come Saudia didn’t renew at least 60 Saudi Captains’ contracts but has kept all the Flyadeal expat captains with their salary untouched?

Type of Equipment flown (A320). Domestic will be back running first. Taking bookings for Domestic flights starting June 1.

[mutt]

Taking bookings for Domestic flights starting June 1 And international from 01st Sept, but all depends on the case numbers and government approval.

[Saudia4saudis]

Hawk , one question , why did Saudi ( you country) have to send you to the states ?

786, excellent post

Its the cheapest place to do that, “most bang for your buck” due to the developed Economies of Scales, note that Chinese government has bought flight school in the U.S. to train there citizens.

[Saudia4saudis]

Hmm your first point. Saudi's not working for other airlines. You might want to have a think of why that is. Second point, it is about remuneration being so good (and even when it is there are a lot of pilots who will forgo that enticement to have a normal lifestyle). Ask yourself why, but you will probably have to be told. Third point. Saudi's worked to provide oil to the world. If that was the case you would not have needed expats to do the work.

I know Saudi pilots that worked in Emirates, Etihad and qatar Airways; However, I don’t believe that EU airlines would ever hire someone who is “not one of their own”. So why get frustrated when saudis want the job in their national airline?
You keep talking as if Saudis aren’t capable to become captains and yes not all first officers are; but enough are. So, instead of looking down at us and wanting our money, you can go elsewhere, how about back to your country?

[finestkind]

Interestingly enough non- middle east pilots appear to be hired everywhere including areas where they are not in a country that in anyway be classified as one of their own. Which makes it no surprise that Saudi pilots can find employment with other airlines in the region (but elsewhere?).
I have been fortunate enough to have trained some Saudi's that would have been an asset in any airforce. And from my experience the percentage of those that make this grade is far lower than in other countries. So based on this plus and other experience gained I have no doubt that there are very capable Saudi Captains but would argue that percentage would be less than elsewhere. This is not just ability but also being a product of your environment. I had one student that would have aced Top Gun but how was he ever going to hone his skills and become an ace in space when his fellow squadron members where not overly interested in flying. In any country anywhere an overconfident, arrogant individual without ability to back up their belief in themselves (his ego is writing cheques his body cannot cash) is looked at with disdain by others unless the whole country is over confident and arrogant. Looking down on you, having experienced treatment of a non Saudi in Saudi please don't be a hypocrite.

[Saudia4saudis]

With all respect and to try make it simple. This is the world we live in, countries will always hire their own over foreigners. I don’t expect that I could be hired by Delta or Lufthansa due to my nationality and regardless of anything else.
Saudi has a growing population and one day sooner or later we will be able to fill all captain spots.
I believe if someone wants to work overseas, they should look for a country that doesn’t have the population (qatar) or the qualification like china for example where there is a lot of expansion and not a lot of qualified nationals, but we all know that if the Chinese have the qualified nationals they wouldn’t ever give the job to an outsider, they have a lot of jobless people already.

I wish you luck and that you get fair treatment. If there is fingers to point, point it at this virus and not at airlines trying to protect jobs of there nationals

[Mgggpilot]

Shall we close this thread now?
enogh has been said and everyone is revolving around writing what has already been written.

[finestkind]

Understand that it may be somewhat repetitive in areas but unless it is vitriolic and becoming a diatribe, whilst people are still posting than why close? Let it die a natural death where posts stop. As has been pointed out mannnnny times if you do not like something on social media don’t read it, open it, follow it.

[Lucifer786]

Very often seen during a mass calamity or catastrophe such as hurricanes or earthquakes, most people hunker down for protection. Some run indoors some go back where they came from while others simply brave the storm. But there are a few, very few even, who actually look forward to such a calamity and take this opportunity to in fact dig the graves of the dead in the hope of finding any possible valuables that they may be able to steal or get a hold of ! Sometimes they go a step further and even kill a person who is in fact alive and simply seeking protection from the same catastrophe, so as to vandalize and steal his valuables and possessions.
This grave digger mentality best describes the Saudia way of dealing and their normal reaction during situations such as these covid 19 days !

Not only is Saudia sacking its entire expat workforce unscrupulously and unethically with little or minimum notice but it is going a step further ensuring that the goal posts are moved around perfectly to suit its illegal game. Pilots are left hanging to dry onto a piece of string with just weeks of notice and then even the little remuneration that is is due to them is withdrawn stating some obsolete law of the land or the other. These laws are changed overnight to suit and feed the pockets of corrupt officials in an already sinking state economy.
This is not a new normal. This is simply the normal, which is nothing new !
🤬

Kicking out a fully operational pilot at the slightest hint of a quarterly loss in company earnings during a global pandemic is pathetic and unscrupulous. Denying him his basic rights and remunerations when he is already reeling at a job loss is simply sick !
And very very Saudi in nature.

[kungfu panda]

That is the most insane post that I have ever read on PPRUNE

[Lucifer786]

True.
Recognition of sanity is a privilege limited to the intelligent 😉

[bassem777]

On what planet do you live? Do you listen to the news around you? Airlines are shutting down or going bankrupt. Did you expect that SAUDIA will stop paying its own nationals in order to pay the expat? Seriously... Wake up man

[Lucifer786]

Bassem you might want to re-read my last post.
A little slowly this time around
☺️

[fatbus]

Get along children!

[SaulGoodman]

Kicking out a fully operational pilot at the slightest hint of a quarterly loss in company earnings during a global pandemic is pathetic and unscrupulous. Denying him his basic rights and remunerations when he is already reeling at a job loss is simply sick !
And very very Saudi in nature. Any expat going to work in Saudia and expecting any form of basic rights is deluded. You all went there for the pay check or because you have lost your job elsewhere. A foreigner in the Middle East will always be a second class citizen at best. Sorry you lost your income but as someone who worked elsewhere in the ME I can’t classify it as a surprise in the current climate.

There is enough documentation on how foreigners are treated in the ME and especially in Saudia Arabia. They pay you that means they owe you. Anyone who is contemplating legal action is completely deluded. You have no rights. Just ask all the political activists (oh wait, I mean terrorists) who are in Saudia prisons about the legal system in place.

You chose to work in a place where there are no human rights and where public punishments are still being enforced but somehow you are angry because you are not treated the same as back home in the west....

[sheikhthecamel]

.........Third point. Saudi's worked to provide oil to the world. If that was the case you would not have needed expats to do the work.

A bit unfair. Having done some work at ARAMCO and affiliates, I can tell you that operationally it is a very, very well run company, and that much of the work is done by Saudi's with a very high level of competence and work ethic. Meetings started on time, agenda's were kept, people were on point, and those things that were committed to were done efficiently and with little fuss. May sound strange to some who are more familiar with other areas of the ME, but I generally found the locals there in the O&G sector of very high caliber professionally.

PS - Yes, I am an expat.

[sheikhthecamel]

This is a very unfortunate thread with foolish rhetoric from both sides of the argument. There is no doubt in my view that the Saudi's are fully capable of efficiently running their own airline. On the other side of the discussion, there is no doubt that the expat First Officer's have been treated unfairly.

Obviously its a sad day when anyone gets laid-off; Saudi or Expat - with the added complication that expats must leave the country, possibly with implications for their families. The difficulties and stress are exacerbated by the uncertainty in the industry and gloomy prospects for re-employment any time soon. I feel for anyone in that situation.

That said, expats working in the ME in general, know that they are mercenaries, and that when the s**t hits the fan, they are on their own. It is part of the unwritten Faustian pact we make in such "ventures" - I use the word advisedly because it should be self evident that you are accepting some level of risk by working in region - and are rewarded accordingly. If you do not understand this, and the implications, the respectfully I submit that you're better off staying at home.

PS - Anyone doing their diligence prior to signing a contract in the ME will see that there are few legal protections for employees, let alone expats. Employees can be terminated quickly with few consequences, and companies are rarely required to ringfence benefits. I know many that were fired and did not receive their severence payments because the company were using these as working capital. In this respect, the regional airlines are probably better than the most employers.

[SaulGoodman]

Any foreigner who goes to work in the ME and expects to be treated fairly is naive.
When the **** hits the fan guess what happens.
unfair? Certainly
unexpected? No!

[finestkind]

sheikhthecamel

I am not going to disagree with your experience. You also stated " having done some work". My experience was over a number of years and the ability displayed in a professional area was severely lacking from competence to work ethic.. Admittedly that was some years ago and may well have changed. More to the point on the "Saudi's worked hard to supply oil the the world" is irrefutably incorrect with all the "initial work being done by expats. It may well be that the Saudi's involvement now in the corporate area is more and they are very good at holding meetings..

[Joker11]

Couldn't be more local...

Middle Eastern attitude.

[Marcus555]

There is no such thing as law in the horrific place ,the country if founded on that fact , culture is no where to civil nor the level of professionalism , I left that place just 3 weeks after my arrival , I will not work in such environment if they pay me millions
stay away

[Fabio70]

Saudi airlines are liars they will tell you what you want to hear good luck guys getting your money and good luck if you going to come back

[Lucifer786]

Fabio, you are absolutely right, the world needs to be told of the appalling treatment of the expat pilots in this barren hellhole. But watch this space, its coming. Some very embarrassing documents to be released to the Ministry Of Interior in the Kingdom and the International Press in the coming weeks. Airlines who treat their pilots, employees and passengers with contempt and utter disregard must be named, shamed and appropriately defamed.
Watch this space … 😡

[azhkman]

Jack330

Saudization, haha. I remember living in Saudia City with my Mom and Dad working for Saudia in late 80's and they were talking about Saudization then. Let's be honest, this is the fault of COVID. And it's awful--but there is not much that can be done and companies will try to save costs anyway they can until they can start earning again.

[Fabio70]

Those people have to be exposed for there slavery for there lies they should be exposed in the media they need to respect contracts

[Fired600]

If this ‘Saudization’ ( insert other Middle East location + ization for other regions) was tried in the US or Europe there would be protests and cries of racism.

[metro301]

Jack330
Let's be honest, this is the fault of COVID. And it's awful--but there is not much that can be done and companies will try to save costs anyway they can until they can start earning again.

Exactly, thank you. Can we please stop the rest of this drivel? No one is being sent away without their end of service money, nothing is being stolen. This is happening all over the world. Anyone thinking that a contract pilot will be taken care of before a national should have researched more before taking the job.

[Fabio70]

The problem is the Saudi you cannot trust before the KOVID 19 too many guys didn’t get there indemnity and there bonuses and if you thing your coming back good luck and do you know if you go to the ministry of labor and complain against SAUDI AIRLINES you cannot leave the country until your case is over that will take years and years SO STOP POSTING WHAT YOU DONT SEE

[metro301]

Fabio, Rubbish.. With your 6 posts. I have seen more leave with exactly their entitlement than people leave thinking they are owed more than they really are. Read the contract, learn the laws. It is not perfect but I personally have not seen anyone robbed as you say.

[Fabio70]

Metro trash what you saying is not based on facts

[Lucifer786]

I know at least 18-19 Ex Saudi captains who were given less than 24 hours ‘notice’ for their termination letters to be emailed to them and who on final settlement were shortchanged by an average of 40 percent of the monies that they were duly owed to them.
One way or another, this airline gets you. And it always seems to get you when you’re at your weakest. A sign of a coward? Maybe. A sign of a greedy corrupt system taking advantage of your current weakness. Positively!
If your final settlement is expected to be say 300K and your are ‘offered’ 200K, what do you do …????!!!
Just got to hear that all the UPL candidates above 55 will be terminated 2 months before their UPL period expires. Thus staying legal and having had their cake too.
Lots of legal documents gonna be slapped on this excuse of a GM’s desk very soon !!

[metro301]

Can't speak to the notice period, the Capts I know that did not take UPL were all given 2 months notice. They are using Force Majeure, Covid certainly qualifies as a Force Majeure by any definition.
End of service (EOS) is paid out at 3 different rates. This is by Saudi law. It is also not commonly known but has been the same way for 20+ years.
0-5 years of service = 1/3 EOS
5-10 years of service = 2/3 EOS
10+ years = Full EOS
Everyone I knew that had 5+ years were paid exactly or more than expected.

[metro301]

I admit I know of the time frame given to choose UPL or Termination. Everyone I know terminated was given 2 months. I know of ZERO given less.

I also know that 7 year Capt would be paid around 200k EOS. That is with full EOS paid. I also know that there are only a handful of people with more than 10 years so I can't see very many getting to the 300+ mark.

[Lucifer786]

The 300k and 200k was simply being used as an example metro. Not actual figures. But pilots getting paid 40-45% less than what they expected is real !
And ALL the ones who were given 2 months notice for termination were given only 24 hours to decide on termination or on NPL.
About 10 pilots thus terminated and stuck out of kingdom were not even paid their basic salaries for the 2 months they served legally.
Fact sometime IS stranger than fiction. Especially here in SAUDIA.

[metro301]

I hear you. Painful I know, my point is that I have not personally seen someone lose on what they were actually owed. I have seen MANY that think they were owed more, expectations were often higher than reality. I know of examples of guys being over-paid during service and then losing money on exit as it was reclaimed.

I also believe that rumour over here is stranger that fact and fiction combined.

When Covid shut the world down it was expected to get messy. I am simply not a fan of publicly slagging any employer based on rumours.

[Themeatfleet]

get what you’re saying, but let’s not pretend that our western countries are high and mighty. Some of the biggest names in western aviation have used this as an opportunity to tear up contractual terms and conditions at will and relegate long serving employees to the scrap heap..... despite the contracts they all held.

I know that everyone feels bad when it happens to them, but expats would be first to go in any airline in any country. What government could justify letting expats stay while firing locals.

every expat knows that when you go to the Middle East you are always expendable and always at risk of being thrown on the scrap heap at short notice...... but that’s the price you pay for the quick succession and tax free money!

[BOEMBUS]

Themeatfleet
Couldn't have put it any better..

[Gordomac]

Themeatfleet & Boembus : exactly. Finally got there ! And as professional "commercial" pilots we will always continue to do that in order to put food on the table.Offered B747 twice with Saudia in my career. IN GF, considered it again when things looked grim. I could never justify family life in a Saudi ex-pat compound but quite liked the deal on all three occasions.

Settled in GF for nearly 20years but finally booted out with no notice after a bit of a battle. Had to fight hard for three month's "in lieu" of notice and saw lots of reductions by messing about with other terms.

But we, surely , know what we are signing up for on day one eh ?

Went off to the City Mall, bought myself my long-service watch, looked in the mirror and thanked myself ,climbed into my repatriation flight (sub-load in practice, of course) and left.

Given all events, would do it all again in the same circumstances. That is why, according to our profession, we fly for " Hire or reward". Purely commercial on both sides of the table.

[Themeatfleet]

Gordomac

Absolutely!! My seven years were quite rewarding, and I left on my own terms. Regardless of the good and bad, I would still go back again, but would always do so mindful of how quickly it can end.

ultimately, the Middle East and it’s people provide countless expats an opportunity to work and earn at standards well above their home countries. When it all turns bad it’s easy to let racism take hold and aim everything at the locals.... but let’s remember, this is the first time that major middle eastern airlines have ever laid off crew en masse. And they are doing so along with every other airline in the world.

[finestkind]

True Themeatfleet in regards to a financial rewarding place but disagree with your racism comment. I was fortunate to be under contract with a non-middle eastern country working in the middle east. Therefore any breach of contract could be resolved in a place that looked at the law and not other aspect s for a resolution. I have seen first hand other expats under contract to a local company that has ended in tears due the company not honoring the contract with this nothing to do with corona virus and years ago. You may call it racist to point out that a) if you are not a local you are treated differently and b) a very different mindset to a logical, reasonable, and fair treatment of non-local employee’s.

[Bahonkadonks]

Expat first officer here, hired during the 2015 hiring boom. The training was hard but fair. The housing situation wasn’t perfect but Saudia always made sure that we were comfortable. Once released my salary was always higher than I expected.

The move to Riyadh was messy but the housing in Riyadh was great. Saudia always treated me fairly to the last day. On the last day I was given every cent owed to me and was told that I could stay in the house as long as I needed to make it home safely.

As an expat I didn’t force Saudia to hire me. I didn’t take anyone’s job, Saudis hired me and Saudis decided not to renew my contract. Don’t blame the foreigners for taking your jobs.

For the expats complaining, Saudia honored our contracts. The Captains were under no obligation to take UPL, they could’ve taken their two month notice and left (like some did). If anything the UPL was a blessing, Saudia could have easily given everyone two month notice.

Working with Saudia wasn’t perfect but nothing is. I have hung up my wings and have joined the family business but I will remember Saudia with many happy memories. I’m embarrassed to see all the hate in here coming from both sides. I’m sure I’ve flown with many of you guys and it’s sad that you need anonymity to show your true colors.

[Landflap]

"you need anonymnity to show your true colours " ; So says "Bahonkadonks " located in the "world".........gotta larf eh ?..............

[Python27]

Bahonkadonks;

You may rename now Stockholm syndrome as saudi syndrome (when applied for professional relations).

[MissChief]

One fundamental difference exists between Saudi and European/US airline pilot policies. Saudi (and perhaps certain other ME carriers) are dismissing pilots who are not their own nationals. This simply does not take place in so-called civilised countries.

My own experiences operating in and out of JED on Hajj flights through the years have not been good, Aside from Saudi ATC favouring local and royal flights without any pretence, the immigration and customs differences in treatment between Saudi and foreign incoming crew were profound and sometimes unpleasant. (Long and unnecessary waits, dismissive and obstructive local officials, bias and sometimes prejudice against foreign people)

However, I was doing a paid job for a foreign carrier, not a Saudi airline. I knew what to expect. Although refusing to fly there would have created a problem with my own employment, so I was not making a choice.

Good luck to the folk now hoping for alternative employment in these troubled times.

[Sal380]

What you say is absolutely incorrect, I worked more than 20 years in Saudia and when I left evey last penny and more was paid to me, nobody shortchanged me, on the contrary they didn't want me to leave but unfortunately I had pressing family issues.

The best years of my flying were spent in Saudia; sure there were ups and downs, sure they were unorganised at times but overall Saudia was very kind to me and I have no complaints or animosity. Even though professionally a very great injustice was done to me by an indivisual and saudias system that was not designed to address such personal biased politics but that could have happened anywhere. You obviously believe in hear say.

[Lucifer786]

Sal380.
You would then be one of a handful of pilots who have stuck around this hell hole for so long.
Free upgrades and transitions maybe 🤔

[Sal380]

You sound like one of those disgruntled expats who get flunked during induction process, or perhaps who came for up-grades but that didn't materialise. Once again you are wrong? I wasn't amongst a handful of expatriate pilots who stuck around long years in Saudia I was amongst many of them, the early generation American/European Pilots stuck around in Saudia for over 30 years, even more, their entire flying career was groomed in Saudia and when time came to leave; I have seen tears in their eyes.

one particular American pilot friend of mine told me, that he knew of no other home and his three kids were born in Saudi city and they all keep coming back, he wished Saudia Arabia would gave permanent residency to those retired pilots who wanted to stay back. As for myself I have no complaint against Saudia, One of my friends who is still in Saudia for last 33 years is coming up for retirement, I would call him the last of the old Expat pilots generation coming to a close, he also is leaving with a heavy heart, It may be a hell hole for you? but for the like of him and me it was the best Airline in the world, but then again we are Muslim Expatriate pilots and for us Saudia Arabis has two of our sacred most holy places and that has its own attraction and dynamic. Good day and Salam

[MissChief]

Sal 380, your response to me was quite disrespectful. I was not incorrect, as you so glibly stated. I was reporting my own experiences, in the main, and reporting them honestly. Your response to Lucifer 786 was also impolite, presumably because you were annoyed.

Irrespective of your manners, would you not consider a country where your own religious beliefs were suppressed and could not be practiced some sort of hellhole? Especially if it also prohibited you from enjoying a customary glass of wine or a chilled beer in public. Anyway, this is going off-thread, so I'll stop there. Saudi Arabia, and Saudia are not everyone's cup of tea. And operating professionally in and out of JED has been an unpleasant business for many of us foreign and non-muslim pilots. Clearly not for you and your colleague. Each to his own.

[lee_apromise]

One fundamental difference exists between Saudi and European/US airline pilot policies. Saudi (and perhaps certain other ME carriers) are dismissing pilots who are not their own nationals. This simply does not take place in so-called civilised countries.


US airlines primarily hires Americans and Green Card holders so technically they are all locals. So are European airlines (except Norwegian probably, or back in Air Atlanta Icelandic days).

So Air Japan letting go of all foreigners and Korean Air / Asiana not renewing contracts foreigners equate to Japan and Korea being uncivilized?

Apples and oranges.

[Easy Peasy]

MissChief

I’m a foreign and non-Muslim pilot and I quite enjoyed my better part of a decade in Saudi Arabia. If you embrace the culture a little and stop grumbling about the job you missed out on back home a lot can be learned. I made far more money in KSA then I now make in my own country.

The Saudis made a plan some years back to eliminate their dependance on foreign help. They didn’t make a secret of it. It is their airline and they can do with as they wish. To complain that they followed through on their plan seems a bit self centered. Perhaps the powers should be praised for executing the game plan. Sitting around wishing that this wasn’t going to happen seemed a bad plan to me so I resigned and found another job. There is no need for hard feelings, life is short.

If having a wine or beer in public is your biggest gripe with Saudi Arabia, once again they make no secret of this. Why take the job? I personally had no issues finding a cold beer or a fine glass of wine, it just wasn’t done publicly.

[fatbus]

I operated in and out of JED for 17 years and never had any huge issues. Any pilot that comes to the ME comes for money not lifestyle . If as a byproduct of the situation you have a good lifestyle then great . I had a great time and left when the money bucket was full , handicap 9.(pun included)

[Easy Peasy]

To be fair: Flying a turn-around to JED and then back to a chauffeured driven car in Dubai is a far cry from actually operating out of Jeddah. I’m sure your 1 hour transit in the Kingdom had its issues of uncertainty, but that is a far cry from actually hanging your hat on the artificial gold hook on the wall of a home in Saudi City.

There is good and bad to both but having done both... they are far different.

It is unfortunate that I will likely never see it again, but for me Saudi City will always be my home. If the circumstances were different I’d be joyfully shopping at the Star Mart tomorrow.

For those fortunate few still there.... enjoy every moment. You’ll miss it when you leave.

[Lucifer786]

Thank you MissChief for that astute observation … 🙏
And Sai. You are right. SAUDIA is not everyone’s cup of tea.
‘Everyone’ being 99% of the pilots populous world over 🙄

[Icelanta]

Any truth in the rumour that expats are being called back to JED asap?

[metro301]

Yes. Some have already been scheduled for recurrent GS.

[finestkind]

Look at the bright side. Eventually things will turn around. It may be some time before it is at the levels pre COVID but it will get there and when it does what will happen? Many have left, been sacked etc and taken on other careers or will significantly be out of currency combined with a down turn of those that once desired an aviation career. So when things crank up how do you attract people back into those seats. I would suggest if you are sub 30 even 40 (without family commitments) that when this time arrives it will be rewarding, particularly in the ME when once again the requirement for expats will be high.I sympathies with those unable to remain in their desired career and are suffering a financial burden and wish you the best.

[fatbus]

I agree and some will not even remember how badly those in the ME have been treated recently. T and Cs , well, never as good as it once was . They have been heading south at least since I got there .

[LNAV VNAV -]

Yes. Some have already been scheduled for recurrent GS.

Maybs Saudia’s game was not so dirty after all?

[The Rage]

According to the Chai wala
"Called back, sign new contract and go back on NPL until further notice. Only TRE/TRIs being reactivated for the moment."

[Python27]

Maybs Saudia’s game was not so dirty after all?

Wrong. Dirty AF

[Romasik]

The Rage

This info is already outdated. Expats are being called back from NPL one month before its end.

[RAKH787]

All out of jealousy written against Saudia, I’ve given an option for six months unpaid leave or two months notice. In this pandemic situation all airline did corrective action so did Saudia.
Saudia paid all my dues and it’s one of the best Airline to fly with great professional pilots , super professional instructors Captains and very well disciplined First Officers.
enjoyed every moment working for Saudia.

[Lucifer786]

Served them for 9 years as Captain. Last 2 years forced to live in the hell hole called Riyadh. Not ever called to office, never called in sick, not ever had any incident or accident. Flawless training record.
Mother ( who is out of kingdom )falls terminally sick in Feb. I come to visit her on my legal off days in March first week. Can’t get back due global cancellation of flights. In the mean time mom passes away due a combination of factors. I advise Saudia Operations of my moms demise and my inability to return immediately due moms situation and the flight cancellations too. Will be back ASAP with the commencement of flights.
Week later I get a termination letter by email while I’m still at moms home giving me 2 months notice …!!! 👿
But wait. Thats still not the end of it.
I complete my settlement with Saudia and guess what …???!! They did not pay me my basic salary from the day I was out of the kingdom (on my official days off) to my last day of work ie about 3.5 months of basic @ 40K SAR PM …!! 😳

THAT MY friends is the apathy and level of corruption and inhumanity that exists with this Stone Age airline. The airplanes are flying by the will of Allah. As are the operations. MEL’s average 12-13 per airplane. And then they are illegally cancelled out when they expire ! I can go on but I’d rather not.
It has always been a taxi operator for a corrupt camel hearder who if fact couldn’t even afford a taxi.
And it will always be that.
My house help has better working conditions than the ones I did when I was in Riyadh.
And she doesnt have to deal with a hypocritical, patronizing and cheating boss who would need her to get a death certificate for her mom if god forbid she lost her mom while at work …!!! 🤬
Stay away I warn you. Stay very very far away.
I’ve been burnt and burnt bad ! So have a lot of expats out there who won’t complain due to the hope of getting back inshallah.
But from me, you have been warned …

[Romasik]

Looks like you are not telling the whole story. Most probably only the part that suits you or may be even misrepresenting facts. The clear indication of this is your statement about “MEL’s average 12-13 per airplane”. It’s an outright lie.

[metro301]

Lucifer,

Sorry for your loss.

You do raise a lot of confusion with your post. My Father passed 5 years ago. I had to provide around 10-15 original certificates for banks, mortgage, credit cards, pensions and his past employer. SVA asked me to provide a pic of the certificate, not even the original. Once provided, I was readily given all the time I required. What is the offence with having to provide a death certificate?

Flts into KSA shutdown March 14/15. The termination letters for those that refused UPL went out last half of April, a full 30+ days later. That is a lot of time to reach out to the base office / fleet office / GM and clarify your situation. Sounds like they treated you more like an absconder rather than a termination.

Why would they owe you for the time between you not returning and the termination notice (1 month)? You weren't available to work. For those of us that did stay, we were assigned on RSV for the first half of April as no one had a clue if we were going to be flying again or not.

Which fleet is running these MEL's numbers on average? Never seen that on a single AC much less an entire fleet.

[Lucifer786]

I needn't clarify this but just a courtesy here.
All my days out of kingdom due inability to return due to covid were treated as absent without leave. Don’t ask me why. And this DESPITE me losing my mom a week after landing home. HR and Ops was emailed all relevant copies of my moms medical condition but I never got a reply. And my salary was still cut !
NPL was never ‘offered’. Calls were made telling you to write in to request NPL. I didn’t write in asking for an email to reply to. I suppose that justifies the termination !! 🙄
My very last flight on the T7 had 14 open items !! I can give you the tail number if you like.
If anyone here says that the maintenance in SV is as good as in the western ( or eastern) world then I know where your flying hours come from. I couldn’t even get my log book certified by the Flt ops. Is that normal. Not really. And I don’t need an endorsement to make my point.
All this is merely the tip of the iceberg that I care to mention. The real danger being in what I’ve not written so far. Simply to keep the negativity from affecting me adversely.
Times are bad. And we need all the hope we can muster. SAUDIA was the worst nightmare of my aviation career. And I wish not to discuss it in such length. It’s a disgrace.
Moving on now … no malice intended. Just facts.

[metro301]

Sorry again for your loss, rough year for everyone. Mine passed this June in isolation.

[Lucifer786]

Very sorry to hear that metro. Although in some contorted thought process I think I derive consolation in knowing others have felt similar loss during this very bad period. Condolences

[Sal380]

Fully agree; one or two open items in MEL and those also not critical to the flight or even the sector being flown, that was my Experience with Saudia for the twenty years I flew with Saudia, Most on Long Haul 747 runs.

[Lucifer786]

Interesting news …

Saudia airline faces claim over 50 leased Airbus planes: documents (http://a.msn.com/00/en-ca/BB1armXW?ocid=sw)

[Lucifer786]

And now they want all remaining expats to move to Riyadh at their own cost !
😳

[hafiz86]

is SV accepting cv for future recruitment?
i am rated a320 FO with 6000+ hours

and is any other airline in saudi is accepting for recruitment, maybe next year intake ?

[LNAV VNAV -]

i think you have a better chance with NASA!

[Python27]

hafiz86

You may apply for AeroVista, a fast growing airline that will be among the top 5 in the next years!

https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/630357-aerovista.html

Don't be mad, you're the one that started joking!

[hafiz86]

not mad at anyone..i am just desperate...been jobless since march.
a320 fo with 6000 hours total.
on type 1300 hours.
just need job to feed family.

[fatbus]

Mate, hate to say it but depending on your age you should change careers, recovery vs supply and demand is going to be long !

[truejoboffer]

Romasik

On one hand the managers asked BS money to avoid firing and putting people on unpaid leave, after this was done and money paid they started the phone calls from a private number with the black mail (so it could not be reconducted to them and facing for this 1 million reals fine and 10 years in jail) Why? Because the managers on December salary they get a fat bonus calculated on the percentage of the money saved to Saudi airlines.

[mutt]

Considering what you are insinuating, you better have proof and report it via www.nazaha.gov.sa or free call =980=

[mutt]

SAUDIA was the worst nightmare of my aviation career. And I wish not to discuss it in such length. It’s a disgraceSo why did you stay?

[truejoboffer]

Romasik

I hope they put you in jail for blaming corruption on a crown prince that is doing is level best to neutralize the enemies of the country...the old corrupt guard!!

HRH is doing the opposite of what you are quoting

[Romasik]

Do you mind to show my quote talking on this subject? You have obviously confused me with someone else.

[fatbus]

Children! Get along , it's only pprune!

[A380A340]

Hi to all,
Did any body got their contract renewed recently I means Dec or someone whose contract getting expired In Jan Feb

[Flaperon777]

If you’re above 62 you will be terminated immediately. If below then your contract won’t be renewed when it has expired.
This is the Royal Decree. Not much room to play here once MBS passes a decree.
🙄

[metro301]

Well that is odd, I just signed last week....

You claimed the same thing 3 years back.... Broken clock is correct twice a day?

I hear that all expats contracrpts henceforth will be terminated ( not renewed ) on reaching their natural completion.
Of course these are baseless rumors until I actually see or meet a pilot whose contract hasn't been renewed.
But any truth in this ?
Pray tell

[LNAV VNAV -]

Flaperon777

I have a couple of friends who returned from unpaid leave and signed a renewal in October. A couple of other friends returned in November and signed a renewal but were given further unpaid leave.
When was this Royal decree....decreed?

[mutt]

https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/saudia-celebrates-replacement-of-foreign-co-pilots-with-nationals-1.76005138

This was in the planning for about the last 3 years, they had basically told all first officers a year ago that this would be their last year. It was mentioned that all foreign Captains would be gone by 2022, not sure if that means gone from Saudi or gone from Jeddah.

[Saudia330]

The plan is no more foreign 2022. But they have a lot of safety problems nowadays in Jeddah that almost 99% Saudis pilots, a lot of incidents and FOQA events are happening. Saudia is not anymore a safe airline to be a passenger.

[Romasik]

Ok, you are upset. Understandable. But exaggerating thing anonymously looks like a pure retaliation.

[Saudia330]

I am not exaggerating. I still in Saudia and that things are happening now. Thank God in Riyadh not too many incidents yet. But don't worry I am planning to leave ASAP. There is a lack of respect here. Celebrating that foreign are leaving with a bunch of experience and hard working in Saudia a plenty of years is disgusting.

[RoyHudd]

Is it actually true that most if not all Saudia pilots are Saudis? I find this hard to believe.

[Lucifer786]

Barring a handful on all fleets, yes. I would wager that SAUDIA has less than 100 expats on all fleets total today.
But I’m not too sure of the exact number

[mutt]

I find this hard to believe. why is it so hard to believe?

[truejoboffer]

Guys are dreaming ! Go ahead and take them to court , hope you have deep deep pockets. Most of the "cases" of pilots sueing (sp) are urban myths.


urban miths?? I think at this stage there are at least 30 pilots taking the airline to court...and I believe many of them already got first ruling in their favour. Brace yourself because the airline will have to pay a lot of money and will have to reemploy them ..luckly the labour law works very well in saudi


I also hope that a few corrupt managers will go to jail freeing a beautiful airline from the people that are stopping it from becoming a world airline.

[Saudia330]

The way they play with foreigners is unbelievable.
I don't think they will need pilots again because Saudia cannot grow more. The only alternative to be 5 stars would be paying to Skytrax a lot of money. ​​​​​​​Saudia have forced us to move to Riyadh having 20 × 10, but this year it's over. Living in this hopeless land and cannot go home 10 days every month, it's depressing.

[fatbus]

Truejoboffer, no offence , but are you serious or joking ? Good luck if you serious and thanks for the good laugh if you joking .

[truejoboffer]

fat-bus

as soon as the court cases are over they will be posted here so you will stop trying di disguise reality. The foreigners terminated are sueing the s.... out of saudia and guess what, also the crimes committed will come out, .....black mail for personal gain is punishable by the law with a good 10 years in jail !!

[truejoboffer]

Saudia330

next time they will need foreigners they will have to pay triple and upfront

[fatbus]

Now you are just making me laugh !

[Romasik]

truejoboffer

I’m still not getting it. What did Saudia do wrong? What exactly the violation if any?

[mutt]

Considering that there are “30 pilots” taking this court case, I find it strange that no one apart from “truejoboffer” has heard anything about it.

[Saudia330]

Expats redundancies are ongoing. Some Captains got the notification. There is no end in sight.

[Saudia330]

The General Authority of Civil Aviation has designated a team to monitor and follow up on the initiative’s implementation on a monthly basis, prepare reports and refer them to the authority. (Supplied)

The initiative, announced in a statement on Twitter, aims to localize 10,000 jobs in 28 specialized professions across the sector by 2023


Updated 20 January 2021
ARAB NEWS
January 20, 2021 21:58
6093

JEDDAH: Saudi Arabia’s General Authority of Civil Aviation (GACA) launched a new initiative on Tuesday to localize jobs in the air transport sector.The initiative, announced in a statement on Twitter, aims to localize 10,000 jobs in 28 specialized professions across the sector by 2023.

It comes as a product of GACA’s cooperation with the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Development.

Targeted jobs include pilots, co-pilots, runway and ground services coordinators, flight directors, flight attendants, air traffic controllers, supervisors, some maintenance technicians, aircraft catering, passenger handlers, cargo and others.

This step comes as part of efforts to enhance the aviation sector further and reduce unemployment in the Kingdom to 7 percent, as per the objectives of the Vision 2030 reform plan.

All airlines, maintenance and operation contractors, as well as service providers in all airports across the country, were directed to begin implementing the initiative.

GACA has designated a team to monitor and follow up on the initiative’s implementation on a monthly basis, prepare reports and refer them to the authority.
The news comes as Saudia Aerospace Engineering Industries and the Prince Sultan Aviation Academy announced the signing of a joint cooperation training agreement with the US Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology.The aim is to exchange training experiences, qualify national cadres and enhance the quality of training in aircraft maintenance.

Ibrahim Al-Omar, director general of Saudia airline, said the agreement would enhance the efficiency of technical training at the carrier.

Unemployment reached its highest level in the second quarter of 2020 — 15.4 percent. The General Authority for Statistics also reported that the jobless rate among Saudi women reached 31.4 percent.

The total labor force consists of 3.1 million citizens and 10.5 million non-Saudis. The strategy of nationalizing jobs is therefore crucial in reducing Saudi unemployment.

In 2018, the Ministry of Labor and Social Development issued a decision to replace expatriate workers with Saudis in 12 key economic activities.

In 2020, the Kingdom announced its plans to nationalize 20 percent of engineering jobs and 30 percent of accounting jobs.

[Saudia330]

Starting from 1st January 2022 no more house provide by the company. Saudia Arabia inflation rate is very high. Looks like pilots will pay from their wages huge amount of money to live in Riyadh.