Lapsed FI(R)

[WoolWings]

Once we can get out again I’m looking to renew my FI(R) - have spent the last 16 years with an airline which is no more 💜. last instructed SEP 2004 Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction of how/where to revalidate in order to move my career into instructing, and how I can rate as MEIR instructor. Looking for south of England ideally.

[rarelyathome]

There are many airline guys that have kept instructing while doing their day job that will now be looking to put more time into instructing. Sadly, I think you might be somewhat further down in the list. Shame you didn’t keep up with it in the good times.

Genuinely, best of luck though.

[Whopity]

You need to attend FI refresher training at an ATO, formerly called a Seminar and to pass an assessment of competence with an FIE. To do the latter may require training as required with an FIC instructor.
To add the MEIR part you will need to have completed the CRI (ME) course and the IRI Course. Whilst you are still a FI(R), you will need 800 hours IFR to undertake the IRI Course but as an ex airline pilot that should not pose a problem.

[WoolWings]

Thank you for your helpful response Whopity - the abbreviations may have changed but it sounds very similar to how it used to be.
Unfortunately life didn’t afford me the opportunity to keep my ratings valid in the early years but the skills have been greatly utilised in the multicrew world.
I hope more don’t join our discard pile after years of loyal service. Just try to be kind and helpful - we’re going through hell out here and are trying to find ways to keep our homes and food on our tables. We know there are no jobs, we don’t need people kicking us whilst we’re down.

[BigEndBob]

And of course depends if there will be any flying schools or customers left after all the shutdowns.

[Whopity]

There was a shortage of MEIR instructors before it began so I would expect that if comercial training resumes the shortage will still be there.

[Treadstone1]

Do we think flight schools will survive this, i personally don't. There won't be much money around for flight training.

[GgW]

Do we think flight schools will survive this
The bigger schools like L3, CAE, ACS, FTE Jerez that are backed by large corporations or have another source of income should survive.
The rest, I can only hope for the best and that they will still be around when this situation is over.

[TheOddOne]

We're 'just' a DTO run largely by volunteers, so our overheads are small. I guess we're in a better position than places with large fixed monthly overheads. Our projections show us being able to come out the other side, provided we can return to 'normal' 2-in-a-plane by September.

TOO

[Duchess_Driver]

As an FI the requirement to do the IRI was 200 as opposed to the 800 for non FI... when did that change? - must have missed that!

[Whopity]

200 for the FI but he said he is an F(R) so has no privileges to instruct for IR and must do the stand alone IRI Course 800 hours

[Meester proach]

I've been thinking similar .
i was a QFI for 5 years full time in the 90s , then commercial and of course now furloughed .

often thought about returning to instructing for the love , but now itd have to be financially viable , but of course within this massive recession who’d have money to do a PPL ?

theres no plan B , it’s shot as well !

[portsharbourflyer]

Woolwings,

One thing no one mentioned to you is the ME(CRI) needs 30 hours of P1 Multi piston time for an FI(A), your multi crew turbine hours won't count.
However one thing you should look into is becoming a MPL (K2) was (j2) instructor, only an ATO running MPL courses can do this upgrade. What works in your favour is this requires 1500 hours of multi crew experience (which I assume you exceed by some margin) and an IRI, this will allow you to teach the basic and intermediate phase of the MPL course. It will be better paid than SEP instructing and you won't be competing with existing experienced SEP and MEP FI(A)s. Only drawback of course is at the moment everyone is waiting to see which airlines will be resuming MPL courses after the recent close down.

[Sleepybhudda]

Hi Wopity, from your posts I know your very accurate. Do you have a reference for where it says an FI(R) cant have the privileges to instruct for the IR? or MEP for that matter? I've been told it lots but cant find it in FCL or standards docs.

[staticsource]

Hi Wopity, from your posts I know your very accurate. Do you have a reference for where it says an FI(R) cant have the privileges to instruct for the IR? or MEP for that matter? I've been told it lots but cant find it in FCL or standards docs.

Hi not Wopity but this should help 👍

FCL.910.FI FI – Restricted privileges

[Sleepybhudda]

HI Static Source. FCL FI.910 states "in the following cases" If it's not in that case I would read you can do it, if qualified. The text changed greatly from the CAA regulations I believe.(a) An FI shall have his or her privileges limited to conducting flight instruction under the supervision of an FI for the same category of aircraft nominated by the DTO or the ATO for this purpose, in the following cases:

(1) for the issue of the PPL, SPL, BPL and LAPL;

(2) in all integrated courses at PPL level, in case of aeroplanes and helicopters;

(3) for class and type ratings for single-pilot, single-engine aircraft, except for single-pilot high performance complex aeroplanes, class and group extensions in the case of balloons and class extensions in the case of sailplanes;

(4) for the night, towing or aerobatic ratings.

No where does it state you cant add IRI or CRI M/E privileges .

[Whopity]

No where does it state you cant add IRI or CRI M/E privileges .
Quite right however; the priviliges of the FI(R) do not include IR instruction or ME aeroplanes whereas the FI certificate does. Yo cannot add a privilege to a certificate that does not exist in the regulation. The FI privileges include:
(3) in addition:
(i) for multi-engine aeroplanes, met the requirements for the issue of a CRI certificate;
There is nothing to prevernt an FI(R) obtaining a stand alone CRI M/E certificate.

In the case of the IRI the privilege is not contained within the FI Restricted Privileges but it is included in the FI privileges:
(g) an IR in the appropriate aircraft category, provided that the FI has:
(1) at least 200 hours of flight time under IFR, of which up to 50 hours may be instrument ground time in an FFS, an FTD 2/3 or FNPT II;
(2) completed as a student pilot the IRI training course and has passed an assessment of competence for the IRI certificate; and
Again there is nothing to prevent a FI(R) obtaining a stand alone IRI Certificate however note the differemce in IFR time required
FCL.915.IRI IRI — Prerequisites
An applicant for an IRI certificate shall:
(a) for an IRI(A):
(1) have completed at least 800 hours of flight time under IFR, of which at least 400 hours shall be in aeroplanes; and
(2) in the case of applicants of an IRI(A) for multi-engine aeroplanes, meet the requirements of paragraph FCL.915.CRI(a);

[BillieBob]

There is no such thing as an FI(R) certificate; it is simply an FI certificate the privileges of which are temporarily restricted. There is nothing in law to prevent the holder of any FI certificate from adding additional privileges but FCL.910.FI prohibits the exercising of those privileges until the experience requirements are met.

In the OP's case, as well as renewing the FI certificate it may well be worth obtaining separate IRI and CRI certificates as Whopity previously suggested. Renewal of the FI certificate will allow 5 hours credit on the IRI course flight training element, in addition to the 25 hours teaching and learning credit.

[Sleepybhudda]

Hi All
Good responses. But let me put it another way. I already have CRI M/E and IRI. I complete the FI course and it is issued on my licence. Why would I not be able to have privileges h) IR instrument and i) CRI M/E added to the FI? The legislation says I am only restricted in the following cases etc and then lists my restrictions. IR & BIR instruction and Multi engine instruction are not on the restriction list.

[Whopity]

The restriction only applies to the FI rating, if you have both IRI and CRI/ME then there is no restriction on those. The only possible limitation would be at an ATO conducting integrated courses for the CPL, where both the IR and ME are regarded as part of that course. No problem for modular courses.

[BillieBob]

@Sleepybhudda: Think of it this way. Until the restriction is removed, the privileges of an FI certificate are limited to the provision, under supervision, of the instruction listed in FCL.FI.910. However, you may exercise the privileges of an IRI certificate to provide instruction for the IR and EIR and the privileges of a CRI certificate to instruct for MEP class rating. Once the restriction is removed from the FI certificate, you may apply to have the IRI and CRI privileges added to it or continue to hold separate certificates (or both).

[Sleepybhudda]

BillieBob: It can be thought of that way. But thats not how EASA wrote it. FCL.910.FI does not prohibits the exercising of h) or i) privilege just the ones it specifically listed. I cannot see anything that would stop you adding the h) or i) privileges. Whopity is correct why would you need to if you just had the standalone versions.

[BillieBob]

It can be thought of that way. But thats not how EASA wrote it.I think you'll find that's the way the competent authorities read it.
why would you need to if you just had the standalone versions. To avoid the expense of maintaining three separate ratings?