What is your airline doing?

[5000psi]

Just wondering how different airlines are playing this. Probably far from peoples minds at the moment, but when the tide does eventually turn in a few years, I wonder if people will look back and apply to those airlines that looked after their staff the most. Thinking Jet 2 at the moment!

Also, what a great marketing opportunity when its over. I think the population will be a lot more community minded, and start boycotting the likes of Sports Direct etc. (Until the memory fades in about 6 months.) So for example, Jet 2 might advertise as being the "Community Airline", who paid their staff 100% though-out. (Using Jet2 as an example, as I believe they are haven't received any payouts etc. Sorry if this is incorrect.)

So to start, 2 that I know:

Qatar - So far no pay deductions.

BA - Effectively 50% part time for April and May to start. No news yet on the other areas of the business. Leader was very late to the game to take a pay cut.

[aerodestination]

KLM - No pay reductions or part timing. 90% of salaries are paid by an emergency state fund for upcoming 3 months. No redundancies for pilots and cabin crew.

[Tim88]

KLM - No pay reductions or part timing. 90% of salaries are paid by an emergency state fund for upcoming 3 months. No redundancies for pilots and cabin crew.
Hower with a maximum of €9500,-

[SaulGoodman]

Hower with a maximum of €9500,-

WOW. That is way too much if paid for by tax revenue.. If I remember WW in the Netherlands used to be Max 4000e (ballpark) / month..

[q400_driver]

AirBaltic - CEO is refusing state bailout and calls it a waste of money, because he doesn't need people. Staff including FC/CC will be cut by about 40%. Management is not interested in people solidarity and majority willing to do part time / 75%, they see layoffs as only option. Unions helpless and ignored. Government - as the majority shareholder - toothless.

[OhNoCB]

WOW. That is way too much if paid for by tax revenue.. If I remember WW in the Netherlands used to be Max 4000e (ballpark) / month..

Knowing nothing about it and can't easily see with a very very quick search, I wonder is that €9500 across the 3 months in total, not per month. That brings it close to other states.

[OPEN DES]

WOW. That is way too much if paid for by tax revenue.. If I remember WW in the Netherlands used to be Max 4000e (ballpark) / month..

Why would that be too much??
These guys and girls paid a whole lot of tax in their lives!

[SaulGoodman]

Why would that be too much??
These guys and girls paid a whole lot of tax in their lives!

yes so did many others who are now paying their salaries. 9500 is a figure that you cannot explain to taxpayers. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against their salaries, that is, when it is paid for by the company. Not by the taxpayers. This should be capped.

*just looked it up online. Max unemployment fee is 219 euro/day (with a max of 37000/yr) I don’t see why it should be different in this case...

[Flocks]

In France, the french government give about 4,5 X minimum wage for a maximum, what make 6900 euro before tax. If the employee is paid more, the airline need to pay the difference.

​​​​​​In my airline, it cover an FO salary but not a Cpt salary, so the airline pay the difference to pay the minimum guarantee.

[sekmeth]

yes so did many others who are now paying their salaries. 9500 is a figure that you cannot explain to taxpayers. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against their salaries, that is, when it is paid for by the company. Not by the taxpayers. This should be capped.

*just looked it up online. Max unemployment fee is 219 euro/day (with a max of 37000/yr) I don’t see why it should be different in this case...
its becouse they are not unemployed!
those pilots also have mortgage to pay, maybe alimony, 3 ex wives etc.
dont forget their normal salary is roughly double that, so 9500 is a massive unexpected paycut.

Lufthansa, Cargo and Germanwings, at least for the next 3 months:
captain: 85%, Senior FO 86%, and FO 87% of their normal net income.
This normally runs until the end of 2020, but longer is an option.
after this program is stopped, its forbidden to lay off cockpit crew for the 3 months after that

8 or more holidays a month gives you 100% salary

[SaulGoodman]

In a good mond I make 9500 and even I could manage a year ahead with no pay. I think it is ridiculous to have the taxpayer pay for senior KLM captains. I think they earn every cent of their salary. But not when their salary is paid for by the the tax payer. That is completely ridiculous! That is more then 3 times an IC nurse makes monthly. Just to putt it in perspective. If you are on such a package and can not save for a rainy day then you are very poor in financial planning...

*But is the 9500 for 3 months or per month?”

[sekmeth]

*But is the 9500 for 3 months or per month?”
It’s per month

[NoelEvans]

Working a normal full roster and on full normal pay.
But I have been told on another Thread to "Shhhhhh" about that!

[plikee]

its becouse they are not unemployed!
those pilots also have mortgage to pay, maybe alimony, 3 ex wives etc.
dont forget their normal salary is roughly double that, so 9500 is a massive unexpected paycut.

So does the people that are not in this industry. So, according to your comment, they get around €200k before tax. Don't they have savings, investments etc? Can they not do a life style change for the next months? Remember this is temporary, it's not for life. Having the tax payer paying those high amounts, no matter how much you argue back, it's ludicrous. Just remember our colleagues that lost their job recently and they are entitle to 0. Zero. Nada.

Don't be greedy.

[Boeing 7E7]

Tui pilots have taken an approximate pay cut of just under 50%, while they have been furloughed. The pilots union and the management seem to be working in a very grown up and transparent manner which is as surprising as it is inspiring. Long may this mature and collaborative approach continue.

[Satoshi Nakamoto]

What is your airline doing?

Can't say as I don't own an airline unfortunately:{

[Field In Sight]

Most of the recent government schemes provide (temporarily) a proportion of the wages that an individual has been earning prior to this epidemic.
This is just a short term measure to ensure that things like mortgage payments are not missed until (hopefully) things improve. Avoiding any house repossessions etc.

I understand that it seems wrong (on the face of it) that governments should pay the same proportion to "highly" paid pilots.

It is also not fair that individuals who have provided a much larger contribution of taxes previously, should be penalised.

My own company is using the UK 80% scheme. The majority of employees will be receiving an actual 80% of their previous income whilst furloughed.
Higher paid crew will be received as little as 20% of their previous income but still with bills based on their full pay.

I'm happy that the government has intervened, but am still disappointed overall.

IMHO.

[5000psi]

Can't say as I don't own an airline unfortunately:{

I think at the moment you're quite fortunate! I own a very small number of shares in 2 UK airlines, and currently wish that I didn't :{

[VinRouge]

I think at the moment you're quite fortunate! I own a very small number of shares in 2 UK airlines, and currently wish that I didn't :{

I own a big number in my airline and to
say I regret is an understatement!

[plikee]

My own company is using the UK 80% scheme. The majority of employees will be receiving an actual 80% of their previous income whilst furloughed.

Caped to £2500 maximum. That is also a gross figure so it's subject to tax and NI.

[oboema]

KLM

Full salaries+benefit payed as per normal, no redundancies.

The deal:
Government pays 90% of a companies payroll to a max of €9500 per person/month.
The company must pay the remaining 10% +the difference if salary > €9500/month and can NOT fire anybody.
Arrangement is for 3 months with another 3 months available should the economic situation dictate.

So normal full salaries for everyone, regardless of income.
Keep in mind that we pay (in the top bracket) 49,5% income tax, so part of it flows back to the state.

[giggitygiggity]

Can't say as I don't own an airline unfortunately:{

Who would want to own an airline right now?!

[the_stranger]

So does the people that are not in this industry. So, according to your comment, they get around €200k before tax. Don't they have savings, investments etc? Can they not do a life style change for the next months?
Everyone in the Netherlands, employed at a Dutch company gets the same rules, not just pilots.

So anyone earning 9500 euro or more gets 9500 euro, it is that simple.

Don't be greedy.Feel however you want, it is how it is. The Idea behind this program is to keep the economy going by everybody spending the normal amount of money. Therefore you need roughly the same income.

Personally I have enough to get fired and live like nothing happend for a whole year, but am still mightely glad I get full pay. It either keeps my emergency funds untouched longer or, if I somehow keep my job, it can get used when the paycuts come.

[Trossie]

I own a big number in my airline and to
say I regret is an understatement!
A Golden Rule that I was told many years ago: Never have you income and your saving/investments in the same basket, keep them totally separate.

[plikee]

Everyone in the Netherlands, employed at a Dutch company gets the same rules, not just pilots.

So anyone earning 9500 euro or more gets 9500 euro, it is that simple.
Feel however you want, it is how it is. The Idea behind this program is to keep the economy going by everybody spending the normal amount of money. Therefore you need roughly the same income.

Personally I have enough to get fired and live like nothing happend for a whole year, but am still mightely glad I get full pay. It either keeps my emergency funds untouched longer or, if I somehow keep my job, it can get used when the paycuts come.

I think you got my message wrong. Nothing against who earns that amount or more, regardless what they job is. However the taxpayer shouldn't be paying for such high limit. How many people earns that amount there? Isn't that nearly 3 times above minimum wage? How can a government justify to only pay 90% of Mr. De Jong's minimum wage, but at the same time throwing €9500 a month to someone, just to keep they living standards? Sounds like senior management who forces pay cuts across the workforce but keeps theirs the same. Do you think Mr. De Jong will be spending money to boost and keep the economy going? It is just food for thought.

[lear999wa]

I think you got my message wrong. Nothing against who earns that amount or more, regardless what they job is. However the taxpayer shouldn't be paying for such high limit. How many people earns that amount there? Isn't that nearly 3 times above minimum wage? How can a government justify to only pay 90% of Mr. De Jong's minimum wage, but at the same time throwing €9500 a month to someone, just to keep they living standards? Sounds like senior management who forces pay cuts across the workforce but keeps theirs the same. Do you think Mr. De Jong will be spending money to boost and keep the economy going? It is just food for thought.

This is only a temporary measure. It's only Invisioned to last a few months.

[the_stranger]

I think you got my message wrong. Nothing against who earns that amount or more, regardless what they job is. However the taxpayer shouldn't be paying for such high limit. How many people earns that amount there? Isn't that nearly 3 times above minimum wage? How can a government justify to only pay 90% of Mr. De Jong's minimum wage, but at the same time throwing €9500 a month to someone, just to keep they living standards? Sounds like senior management who forces pay cuts across the workforce but keeps theirs the same. Do you think Mr. De Jong will be spending money to boost and keep the economy going? It is just food for thought.
Mr De Jong will still recieve his normal pay, 100% of what he earned. His employer will recieve that 90%, but has to fully pay his employees.

So everyone will keep 100% of his pay..

[Mereketenge]

temporarily laid off until god knows when. Expecting an unemployment salary of 850€, compared to my usual income of around 7500€. even though I have paid an average of 50K per year in taxes for the past 15 years. No additional money provided by the airline. Can anyone beat that? I hope not many other people have to put up with such a rip off. Good luck to everyone

[hunterboy]

I’ve paid an average of 70K/yr in taxes and would receive £460 month Jobseeker’s Allowance. Makes you proud .

[Meester proach]

I’ve paid an average of 70K/yr in taxes and would receive £460 month Jobseeker’s Allowance. Makes you proud .
Very true.......I’m paying £40k a year tax but I’ll not get much on jobseekers if it comes to that

[Joe le Taxi]

The silver lining - we won't be paying all that tax any more - who needs Monaco!

Of course, the governments of the world desperately need our tax dollars to pay for consequences of the shutdown, but they should have thought of that before they pulled the plug out of the economy.

[FlightDetent]

Chinese whispers from the overwhelming most if not all of the HNA conglomerate. Guesstimate is 500-600 foreign pilots under that umbrella.

Since 01FEB instruction to go home via Chinese WhatsApp or email from the office assistant, income exactly 0 ever since. No relevant information either. Agency's advice is to follow the instructions from the airline in case you want to come back one day, the lack of any such instruction notwithstanding.

Tax certificate shows 40% deduction from gross to net in 2019.

Requests to the airline for releasing the licence at CAAC (for a possible change of employer within P.R.C at an un-specified opportunity) denied. People who stayed in the country and are ready to join the limited operation are also stood down.

As everyone's currency (SIM / 90 days landings) expires, this means that if coming back it will be zero pay until SIM checked due to failure on the pilots' side. And the main problem with that is during the normal times the (waiting for) SIM period was a throw of dice - randomly one to six months.

T.I.C.

[aileron]

Making good money is one thing. Having a great financial advisor is another. Could I suggest to all that at times like these it is ever more important to reduce your tax paid. Indeed spend the time reviewing your past and reclaiming ‘missed’ opportunities . HMRC will allow you to reclaim into your past 4 or 5 years etc. From someone who thought I’d always had it sorted........the help of a good advisor has really helped. The last month has been a great opportunity to ‘write to HMRC’ and do some of the things I’ve been putting off. Some of the chaps I’ve flown with are great pilots but are often married to people ‘digging for gold’, making lots of money but living on ‘day off payments’. How can the top 1% be struggling in good times? And now I wonder how they are doing. Wipe the slate clean chaps, if the good times return you’ll be in a better position. GLA.

[Joe le Taxi]

married to people ‘digging for gold’, making lots of money but living on ‘day off payments’. How can the top 1% be struggling in good times? And now I wonder how they are doing. Wipe the slate clean chaps, Damn, my IFA missed that nugget!

Which missed tax opportunities do you refer to specifically? I went from that 60% tax band to zero, just as the tax year switched - can the two tax years be merged to get a refund of the 60% bit and use two years worth of tax allowance? A good thing to do is change your tax code online if you're receiving any furlough/oddjob income, so that it is taxed at just the basic rate.

[aileron]

Hi Joe, Where do I start? For me a few quickies........reducing your tax band by making large payments into a pension (up to your max) also using past years allowances, claiming for higher rate tax relief on past years non salary sacrifice contributions, switching to SS pension contributions, claiming back past years dividend withholding taxes, contributing to your spouse’s pension (tax relief), digging out former companies pensions which were gathering dust, reducing this years tax by informing HMRC of your reduced earnings, moving pension payments into better performing funds rather than the default choices, opening a pension for your children (25% uplift from HMRC), moving shares into ISA, full ISA contributions, informing HMRC of any past Capital losses to offset any future gains, etc etc. And of course the most important one of all.......needs and wants......stop spending. Oh yeah don’t marry a gold digger and definitely don’t get divorced. Does she love me because I’ve got four bars on my uniform? 😁
I always viewed financial advisors as being a bit dodgy but a good one will make/save you 10 times what you pay him. If only I’d swallowed my pride 20 years ago and got one onboard.
Apologies for the thread creep just wanted to put it out there.......be proactive with your money. GLA

[macdo]

Or you could spend the time financially educating yourself and save the small fortune you will pay an IFA over your lifetime. 1% of your pot compounded over 30 years is an eye watering amount.

[aileron]

He has a Doctorate, I trust him and is an expert in his field. His less than 1% is only on the small amount I have invested with him. However my entire position benefits hugely. I agree education is key, I’ve learnt much from him. Hope the good times return soon.

[arrowcapitan]

nothing....

[Ollie Onion]

Stood down on 0% pay, government here will pay $2500 per month minus tax for 12 weeks. Can use accrued leave if you have any and then that’s it. Funnily enough it is being reported in the media how well we are being looked after as the airline hasn’t made anyone redundant. I am currently working in a supermarket :-).

[maxed-out]

Ollie Onion,

This is the problem with mainstream media. They give us the mushroom treatment.

[Satoshi Nakamoto]

Hi Joe, Where do I start? For me a few quickies........reducing your tax band by making large payments into a pension (up to your max) also using past years allowances, claiming for higher rate tax relief on past years non salary sacrifice contributions, switching to SS pension contributions, claiming back past years dividend withholding taxes, contributing to your spouse’s pension (tax relief), digging out former companies pensions which were gathering dust, reducing this years tax by informing HMRC of your reduced earnings, moving pension payments into better performing funds rather than the default choices, opening a pension for your children (25% uplift from HMRC), moving shares into ISA, full ISA contributions, informing HMRC of any past Capital losses to offset any future gains, etc etc. And of course the most important one of all.......needs and wants......stop spending. Oh yeah don’t marry a gold digger and definitely don’t get divorced. Does she love me because I’ve got four bars on my uniform? 😁
I always viewed financial advisors as being a bit dodgy but a good one will make/save you 10 times what you pay him. If only I’d swallowed my pride 20 years ago and got one onboard.
Apologies for the thread creep just wanted to put it out there.......be proactive with your money. GLA

Couldn't agree more aileron. Live well within your means, load yourself up with assets, get rid of the liabilities. It is not rocket science FFS.

[safelife]

Thomas Cook Aviation just fired 90% of their pilots.

[Superpilot]

A kind bit of advice for our European friends. Please use the word "Fired" carefully. It does not translate to "lost a job".

Fired (also known as "sacked") - Usually used in reference to someone losing their job due to poor performance on the job, due to an incident as a result of negligence (willful or not), or due to something in contravention to HR policies or the law (harassment or assault).

Redundancy (made redundant) or Layoff (laid off) - The company has decided that due to lack of demand, financial issues, economic reasons or efficiency requirements, they have to get rid of your position (not necessarily get rid of you).

Furlough - A temporary layoff from work. People who get furloughed usually get to return to their job after a furlough.

[TBSC]

Some (most?) of the places in Europe have no different words to describe those things. You are fired then you are fired, no one cares why. And no such thing as being furloughed, either you are employed or not.

[Tommy Gavin]

@superpilot ;)

grammar Nazi (plural grammar Nazis) (slang, idiomatic, potentially offensive, see usage note at Nazi) A person who habitually corrects or criticizes the language usage of others

[FlightDetent]

@superpilot Thank you, old posts edited accordingly. A "de-employment" does happen in various ways, why not call them the respective names. Speaking proper terminology is a basis for effective communication, one of the required CRM skills.

E.g. many languages only have one word for safety and security. It is enjoyable working with people who went the extra mile, learned to apply those discriminately. Sorry for the aviation content. :p

Grammar Nazi (plural grammar Nazis) (slang, idiomatic, potentially offensive, see usage note at Nazi): A person who habitually corrects or criticizes the language usage of others.

[Satoshi Nakamoto]

A kind bit of advice for our European friends. Please use the word "Fired" carefully. It does not translate to "lost a job".

Fired (also known as "sacked") - Usually used in reference to someone losing their job due to poor performance on the job, due to an incident as a result of negligence (willful or not), or due to something in contravention to HR policies or the law (harassment or assault).

Redundancy (made redundant) or Layoff (laid off) - The company has decided that due to lack of demand, financial issues, economic reasons or efficiency requirements, they have to get rid of your position (not necessarily get rid of you).

Furlough - A temporary layoff from work. People who get furloughed usually get to return to their job after a furlough.

I am with superpilot.
Grammar is very important, it is the difference between helping your uncle, Jack, off a horse, and helping your uncle, Jack off, a horse.

[Adambrau]

At AirFrance USA we get 85% of current earnings.

[733driver]

I am with superpilot.
Grammar is very important, it is the difference between helping your uncle, Jack, off a horse, and helping your uncle, Jack off, a horse.

So correct punctuation is not as important as grammar? Sorry couldn't resist. :p

[Banana Joe]

Operating at 100% capacity and looking to add more tails to the fleet. It's a cargo operator obviously.