EK17 done two attempts in Manchester- and now off to AMS

[Cralis]

Anyone able to find out what EK17, Dubai to Manchester is doing? It arrived in the Uk did a lot of holding, two attempts at Manchester and is now off to Europe, possibly Amsterdam but it’s very high compared to similar approaching aircraft https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/828x1448/5045b976_e9ea_490a_8b97_c53dff5aa772_f3627f2af9e3d6b427ac08a 3a70b784c4345a5f8.jpeg

Any news and insight would be great. Seems like a massive diversion for some reason.

And here is the TAF as well TAF EHAM 091117Z 0912/1018 20031G45KT 9999 BKN018
BECMG 0913/0916 21036G52KT 5000 RADZ
TEMPO 0918/0921 24042G60KT 3000 +SHRA BKN012CB
BECMG 0919/0922 25031G47KT 9999 NSW SCT025
PROB30 TEMPO 0921/1007 26037G54KT 6000 SHRAGS SCT020CB
BKN025
BECMG 1013/1016 24028G42KT
PROB40 TEMPO 1016/1018 25035G52KT 6000 SHRAGS SCT018CB
BKN022=

[compressor stall]

Can you read the METAR? Or a TAF?
I’d say the diversion has something to do with it.

[DaveReidUK]

two attempts at Manchester and is now off to Europe

Despite rumours to the contrary, Manchester is also in Europe. :O

[jdoe]

Also EK15...heading back over France

[GordonR_Cape]

The weather might have something to do with it: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51425482
Storm Ciara: Travel disruption as UK hit by severe gales

[Trinity 09L]

A QR 380 has tried twice at EGLL now looking for elsewhere
going NW to Brum now

[Pelican]

First airport with decent winds is Frankfurt. It's a huge storm system and the whole of Ireland, UK, Holland, Belgium and northern France has high winds.

We carried Frankfurt fuel but were lucky enough to get in on first go.

[student88]

Ladies and gents, this isn't news.

If you think you can come up with a better diversion option why don't you fly the plane yourself?

[Dont Hang Up]

Not just the UK but much of Northern Europe. Obviuosly EK17 decided AMS was okay for now. Perhaps simply because of the better choice of runways.
Ironically, with the low centred over the North of Scotland, the winds at Edinburgh are lighter. The isobars are most bunched over SE UK.

[Airbanda]

Interesting to see where EK 15 is headed, currently FL31 in Nancy/Metz area headed SE. Norwegian 787 headed for LGW earlier today went to Copenhagen (having initially looked as if going to Oslo).

Watching their tracks and point at which approaches were discontinued poses some questions which I will post in Spectator's Balcony.

[misd-agin]

Weather history at MAN/EGCC shows 6 minutes of gusts to 75 kts. 1124-1130Z. That's impressive. Other than that the winds, and forecasts, are within 50 degrees of runway heading so the cross
winds should be within limits. Obviously when the winds are that strong, and might be stronger than forecast or slightly farther off of runway heading, limiting crosswind restrictions might be exceeded.

[Dannyboy39]

Must have been something like 20 go arounds in the last couple of hours into LHR. The controllers must be sweating like hell...

And seemingly a tail strike on the Qantas PER run.

[ManaAdaSystem]

How many tens of tons extra fuel do the carry on the 380 in order to do several goaround and the divert to AMS?
AMS is not a very good alternate either, but the alternate selection for the 380 is limited.

[rkenyon]

How many tens of tons extra fuel do the carry on the 380 in order to do several goaround and the divert to AMS?
AMS is not a very good alternate either, but the alternate selection for the 380 is limited.

It actually diverted to FRA.

QR3 did 2 go arounds at LHR, and diverted to MAN.... Landing at around the same time EK17 landed at FRA.

[gearlever]

Despite rumours to the contrary, Manchester is also in Europe. :O

:D:D:D

I'm still laughing

Thx

Almost as good as Mr. T's. "Kansas" tweet;)

[G-KING]

BA 196 from Huston went Frankfurt too after two unsuccessful attempts at LHR. A friend of mine said 98% of the time he was the most overpaid person in the world, 2% of the time he was the most underpaid person in the world - I guess it’s a two percent day!

[LGW Vulture]

FR4459 has been trying endlessly to get into EMA and still cant land. Trying LPL now.

[45989]

Can't blame him . probably will have to pay for the fuel!

[slip and turn]

... and also per Flightradar24.com, BA2749 GVA-LGW held for a couple of tries at Gatwick, then skedaddled back to France (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ba2749/#23ce950d). Landed 20 mins ago squawking 7700 at Lyon LYS with a reception committee of three "Security Dept" ground vehicles who shepherded it to the apron but then soon sped back to their shed. As G-KING says, it's a day when the pay might hardly seem enough!

[ivor toolbox]

Ladies and gents, this isn't news.

If you think you can come up with a better diversion option why don't you fly the plane yourself?

Exactly....too many armchair commentators

[DaveReidUK]

Exactly....too many armchair commentators

I could understand that comment if the thread were full of criticism of diversion decisions and Monday-morning quarterbacking. I can't see any evidence of that.

[slip and turn]

Exactly....too many armchair commentatorsI could understand that comment if the thread were full of criticism of diversion decisions and Monday-morning quarterbacking. I can't see any evidence of that.Exactly. I agree with Dave. Doesn't really matter what kind of chair the comments come from if they accurately describe an unusual day that many might just learn a little from, including some PPs. Today is of course, quite unusual over UK and near Europe. First we have had Atlantic jetstream assisted record 800+mph subsonic flights overnight, and now we are seeing multiple GAs and very long diversions away from several UK airfields (the types of diversion that can only be executed through a high standard of contingency planning before setting off).

...this looks like (was) another in progress, courtesy of Flightradar24.com (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/u26300/#23ce8f7b)

[wiggy]

what EK17, Dubai to Manchester is doing? It arrived in the Uk did a lot of holding, two attempts at Manchester and is now off to Europe, possibly Amsterdam but it’s very high compared to similar approaching aircraft

Well that might not be considered as armchair quarter backing but the language might be considered slightly loaded.......

I think the underlying grumble might be why single out any particular flight diverting on today of all days when there have been (I suspect, I have yet to count ) dozens of diversions.

Crews and ATC are working their socks off, and the reason for pretty much all of this is encapsulated in the TAFs and METARs for most airfields in north west Europe..

[BRE]

Can an A380 handle higher crosswind than smaller planes?

[Teevee]

Well that might not be considered as armchair quarter backing but the language might be considered slightly loaded.......

I think the underlying grumble might be why single out any particular flight diverting on today of all days when there have been (I suspect, I have yet to count ) dozens of diversions.

Crews and ATC are working their socks off, and the reason for pretty much all of this is encapsulated in the TAFs and METARs for most airfields in north west Europe..

Speaking purely as SLF it is days like this that would otherwise terrify me that reassure me how safe flying really is because of the guys and girls in ATC and up front.

[slip and turn]

Let's not be too picky about language today. Yes crews and ATC no doubt are working their cotton socks off right now, and because it is to an unusual degree, we are all highlighting it behind the first unusual report. I see no flights are singled out for any criticisms ... I myself have pointed to three (all different airlines) with this further one that wasn't yet a diversion until a few minutes ago perhaps, after being beaten to final approach clearance by another inbound sister-ship, whilst seemingly preparing to make a third attempt at Brussels Charleroi (CLR) again courtesy of Flightradar24.com. (http://www.flightradar24.com/RYR6TE/23ceb076) Now off to a straight in at DUS Maastricht! by the looks of it. Yep ... that one's down. But here's another that decided Charleroi (https://www.flightradar24.com/RYR8DV/23cee47e) is currently a no-go ... Busy is the day ...

[JanetFlight]

Few days ago a similar thread was removed to Spotters area....why this one remains here?

[derjodel]

OS461 made a "sightseeing tour" to London...
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/os461#23ce7f39

[jimjim1]

As they went round the hold the GS varied by about 225 knots. Windy!

https://www.flightradar24.com/2020-02-09/12:41/12x/UAE17/23cdfa29


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1013x767/ek_hold_diversion_9_2_2020_0149126d82c4c844a32cdf097fe2b46dd abca23b.png

[slip and turn]

Few days ago a similar thread was removed to Spotters area....why this one remains here?Perhaps because there is currently a whole lot of learning to be had in the here and now? E.g. if your destination right now is for example, Charleroi (https://www.flightradar24.com/RYR74FU/23cefba9), what are you going to do that might be different to what others did in the last 30 minutes or so (https://fr24.com/data/flights/fr3746#23cee47e)?

[touch&go]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLzcVUHRiKI
Second time around,

[Herod]

I'm a retired airline pilot, and I'm living about 30 nm west of BHX. It has been VERY WINDY all day, with a very severe few minutes of wind and torrential rain about 1500. Full marks to anyone flying today. Glad not to be making those sort of decisions anymore.

[maxxer]

But this storm was coming for awhile and even Netherlands is code orange so alternative would be lower to belgium or france even

[wiggy]

You do realise tens of thousands of passengers arrived safely at the likes of LHR, LGW, CDG etc etc today?

[DaveReidUK]

I could understand that comment if the thread were full of criticism of diversion decisions and Monday-morning quarterbacking. I can't see any evidence of that.

Oh dear, I spoke too soon. :O

[TCTC]

This non-expert would be interested to read suggestions as to why the 777 at LHR today did a touch and go; OK, bad winds, but once they were on the ground with spoilers up, they took-off again.

[Twitter]

This non-expert would be interested to read suggestions as to why the 777 at LHR today did a touch and go; OK, bad winds, but once they were on the ground with spoilers up, they took-off again.

Gladly TCTC - similar thing happened to me once in CDG. First Officer landing - got it a bit long and drifting to one side. I did the standard GA procedure - works even after a touch - the spoilers retract on thrust lever movement and you climb away safe and sound.
Inconvenient perhaps but better than an uncertain result after pushing your luck.

[groundfine]

I think Man is 06/24 so down the runway but too gusty for maintaining stable speed below 1000 feet. Would have thought that a heavy plane like A380 more speed stable than smaller ones. Did anyone get into MAN around that period?

[kikatinalong]

In my previous type (B744) there were words to the effect in the manual that a go around could be initiated up to the selection of reverse thrust. Once reverse was selected a full stop landing had to be performed

[CYTN]

Is it me seeing things but in that video above the tip of the 380 right wing looks to be missing after it passes the trees.
Anyone else think that ?

[Airbanda]

You do realise tens of thousands of passengers arrived safely at the likes of LHR, LGW, CDG etc etc today?

The smaller jets, 737/A32x etc seemed to be getting in at LGW. It was the widebodies that were doing GAs. Most giving it up at around 5 miles rather than short finals.

I've posted a question as to what factors might be present at 5 miles that made approach nonviable. Assume it's to do with stability or reported winds but as a non pilot I'm curious.

[sudden twang]

For that particular 777 and any with the same logo technically after initiation of the flare it is not a go around but a rejected landing.
The manoeuvre is SOP and a professional response if certain laid down Pre briefed criteria are not met.
just for clarification.
Well done to the crew.

[BRE]

The smaller jets, 737/A32x etc seemed to be getting in at LGW. It was the widebodies that were doing GAs. Most giving it up at around 5 miles rather than short finals.

I've posted a question as to what factors might be present at 5 miles that made approach nonviable. Assume it's to do with stability or reported winds but as a non pilot I'm curious.

Yes, exactly what I would like to know. Are the heavies more trickier in windy conditions?

[WHBM]

One of the downsides of long term UK aviation policy (yes, yes, what policy .... ?) has been the progressive elimination of cross runways. Heathrow got rid of theirs, Edinburgh recently likewise, there are hardly any left. The majority are down to prevailing west-facing. That means when storms are perpendicular, such as yesterday's which was from the south, the old options have gone. Meanwhile Amsterdam, a range facing different directions, rolls along much better.

[DaveReidUK]

Is it me seeing things but in that video above the tip of the 380 right wing looks to be missing after it passes the trees.
Anyone else think that ?

Unsurprisingly, no. :O

[The Fat Controller]

One of the downsides of long term UK aviation policy (yes, yes, what policy .... ?) has been the progressive elimination of cross runways. Heathrow got rid of theirs, Edinburgh recently likewise, there are hardly any left. The majority are down to prevailing west-facing. That means when storms are perpendicular, such as yesterday's which was from the south, the old options have gone. Meanwhile Amsterdam, a range facing different directions, rolls along much better.

Edinburgh's now closed second runway (30/12) was well off the prevailing winds and yesterdays wind there was mostly within 20 degrees of the current runway (24)

[Jumpjim]

I remember landing on Rwy 23 at LHR. Probably one of only two instances of severe turbulence I've experienced in 25 years. The aircraft was shaking so violently I couldn't read the instruments!

But it was a pain as there was no ILS on to 23 and you had to do an SRA approach which isn't something we did very often and the only time you did one was in the middle of a storm.

Plus when using 23 LHR had to clear a load of aircraft from T4 stands so it wasn't a 2 second job to get it up and running either.. They had handily painted "LHR" onto the back of the gas tank on long finals though so you knew you were in the right place :)

[Wycombe]

They had handily painted "LHR" onto the back of the gas tank on long finals

Pretty sure it's still there (or at least was fairly recently) on the gasometer in Southall. Easily viewable from trains on the Great Western mainline.

[Jumpjim]

Amusingly it's still there.... This is from Google earth, and you can still see the remnants of Runway 23 at LHR...

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1680x2000/screenshot_2020_02_10_at_10_53_34_faaa2e47ea4ba4752c90445308 787818fbf5bbb8.jpg


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1788x1884/screenshot_2020_02_10_at_10_53_52_57c1a310333cbbf1004cbff86b 7db1bbe2eecff7.jpg

[Airbanda]

I think the LH gasometer has been demolished, or will be shortly.

There used to be a similar one in in South Harrow with NO lettering. The lettering was added following a number of incidents where aircraft mistook Northolt's runway for 23.

[Nialler]

But this storm was coming for awhile and even Netherlands is code orange so alternative would be lower to belgium or france even
I was in Luxembourg last night where a code red had been issued early afternoon

The weather event was widespread.

[Sailvi767]

I think Man is 06/24 so down the runway but too gusty for maintaining stable speed below 1000 feet. Would have thought that a heavy plane like A380 more speed stable than smaller ones. Did anyone get into MAN around that period?

It my experience that in these kinds of winds you are likely to get a onboard wind shear alert. At my company and airbus recommends a mandatory go around when that happens.

[Dave Gittins]

How do you recommend a mandatory go around ?

[DaveReidUK]

How do you recommend a mandatory go around ?

If you're an operator, you can make it mandatory in your FCOM.

If you're a manufacturer, you can recommend that operators do so.

HTH

[Deltasierra010]

Anticipating fun and games I was watching flight radar yesterday, there were plenty of go rounds at MAN, after EK15 turned away the second time I did look at conditions reported on flight radar at other airports and they did not look good, LHR was reported at 35 kts at that time. If I had a loaded 380 and fuel to get to a safe airport I would have done the same, he was holding and approaching MAN for over 2 hours before he gave up.

Hats off to all flying and controlling yesterday, a job well done !.

[Sailvi767]

The smaller jets, 737/A32x etc seemed to be getting in at LGW. It was the widebodies that were doing GAs. Most giving it up at around 5 miles rather than short finals.

I've posted a question as to what factors might be present at 5 miles that made approach nonviable. Assume it's to do with stability or reported winds but as a non pilot I'm curious.

Onboard wind shear alert.

[Sailvi767]

How do you recommend a mandatory go around ?

Airbus recommends, it’s up to the operator if they want to make it mandatory.

[bean]

Just a bit of gramatical confusion

[Dave Gittins]

Probably better if they mandated their recommendation for a go around. :ok:

[fab777]

I've posted a question as to what factors might be present at 5 miles that made approach nonviable. Assume it's to do with stability or reported winds but as a non pilot I'm curious.

5 miles is about where you cross 1300 ft, at which point the predictive windshear alerts are presented to the crew on most types. On most types I flew, predictive windshear system is activated below 2700 ft, but does not trigger any alert until the aircraft flies below 1300.

[Airbubba]

I think the LH gasometer has been demolished, or will be shortly.

There used to be a similar one in in South Harrow with NO lettering. The lettering was added following a number of incidents where aircraft mistook Northolt's runway for 23.

Pan Am famously landed a 707, N725PA, at Northolt in 1960.

From an earlier thread here:

The Captain of the Pan Am B707 which landed at Northolt instead of Heathrow was (allegedly) asked by ATC for his intentions. "I guess I'll take up Chicken Farming" was the reply.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/528264-boeing-747-dreamlifter-lands-wrong-airport-4.html#post8165751

[BirdmanBerry]

Despite rumours to the contrary, Manchester is also in Europe. :O

We left the EU on 31st January so technically it's not :8

[DaveReidUK]

We left the EU on 31st January so technically it's not :8

Europe ≠ EU, as any Norwegian will tell you. :O

[derjodel]

Europe ≠ EU, as any Norwegian will tell you. :O

Great Britain left Europe between 450,000 - 180,000 years ago :O

[sudden twang]

Did my browser accidentally hit the professional politicians rumour network?
Back to the EK thread
well done a safe outcome on a v difficult day 👍

[guadaMB]

On Feb 9th all was difficult in N Europe (the continent and islands) :8
Flight UX1093 (AirEuropa) a crowded 788 [EC-MIG] from Madrid to Amsterdam made 5 approaches (in these included 2 GAs) and decided to RETURN to MAD/LEMD
Videos of pax in the "tube".
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1662x868/captura_de_pantalla_de_2020_02_11_11_33_01_6af4d05cde17dacc2 1aa26b0f85479f4bd8bb170.jpg

[srjumbo747]

Despite rumours to the contrary, Manchester is also in Europe. :O
No it’s not. We officially left on the 31st January!

[gravityf1ghter]

No it’s not. We officially left on the 31st January!

The EU and Europe are completely separate! The UK left the EU! Not Europe!

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Saw EK017 at about 1.5d. Commented to a friend "that will G/A", was all over the place, the wind was ridiculously gusty, nothing stood a chance.

[VH-UFO]

I was in Luxembourg last night where a code red had been issued early afternoon

The weather event was widespread.

I reckon there were a few "Code Brown's" issued inside aircraft cabins on the day as well.:E

[nonsense]

The EU and Europe are completely separate!

No, that's Eurovision you're thinking of, at least the EU is a subset of Europe.
(Israel, Azerbaijan, Australia??!)

[Callsign Kilo]

The amount of brexiteers with flight radar is alarming

[swan1980]

Without commenting on Brexit., the amount of people with poor geography knowledge in an aviation forum is very interesting.

[PDR1]

Great Britain left Europe between 450,000 - 180,000 years ago :O

Another fake fact!

Great Britain did not exist until James 1st (VIth) invented the term to describe his kingdom as a single entity without any implied supermecy of England over Scotland or vice versa - this would have been abouyt 1605, so barely more than 400 years ago...

:0)

PDR

[This post was brought to you by Pedents R Us AG, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Pointless Pedentary for a Better Britain GMBh]

[Teevee]

Great Britain left Europe between 450,000 - 180,000 years ago :O

Which must have been a right bugger if you were on short finals! :-)

[DaveReidUK]

Great Britain did not exist until James 1st (VIth) invented the term to describe his kingdom as a single entity without any implied supermecy of England over Scotland or vice versa - this would have been abouyt 1605, so barely more than 400 years ago...

Before the "Kingdom of Great Britain" was declared (actually as a result of the Act of Union in 1707), "Great Britain" was a perfectly correct geographical term for the big island off the coast of France.

To pretend otherwise is a bit like saying that America didn't exist until Columbus (or the Chinese/Irish/Vikings/etc) discovered it. :O

[Consol]

Before the "Kingdom of Great Britain" was declared (actually as a result of the Act of Union in 1707), "Great Britain" was a perfectly correct geographical term for the big island off the coast of France.

To pretend otherwise is a bit like saying that America didn't exist until Columbus (or the Chinese/Irish/Vikings/etc) discovered it. :O

It'll soon just be England with a bit of sheep grazing land attached to the west anyway.

[G-ARZG]

Another fake fact!

Great Britain did not exist until James 1st (VIth) invented the term to describe his kingdom as a single entity without any implied supermecy of England over Scotland or vice versa - this would have been abouyt 1605, so barely more than 400 years ago...

:0)

PDR

[This post was brought to you by Pedents R Us AG, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Pointless Pedentary for a Better Britain GMBh]


(er, shouldn't that be 'pedantry' ?)

[Dan Dare]

Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung is normally abbreviated to GmbH, but I wouldn’t want to be pedantic in case the abbreviation was intended otherwise.

[nonsense]

Another fake fact!

Great Britain did not exist until James 1st (VIth) invented the term to describe his kingdom as a single entity without any implied supermecy of England over Scotland or vice versa - this would have been abouyt 1605, so barely more than 400 years ago...

:0)

PDR

[This post was brought to you by Pedents R Us AG, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Pointless Pedentary for a Better Britain GMBh]

And so down the internet rabbit hole I went, curious about yet another distinction in the many names for all or part of the archipeligo off the north west coast of europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles).

I learnt that according to that font of much usually but not always reliable information, Wikipedia:The classical writer, Ptolemy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy), referred to the larger island as great Britain (megale Bretannia) and to Ireland as little Britain (mikra Brettania) in his work, Almagest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almagest) (147–148 AD).[37] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_(place_name)#cite_note-37) In his later work, Geography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_(Ptolemy)) (c. 150 AD), he gave these islands the names[38] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_(place_name)#cite_note-38) Ἀλουίωνος (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion) (Alwiōnos), Ἰουερνίας (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernia) (Iwernias), and Mona (the Isle of Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man)), suggesting these may have been native names of the individual islands not known to him at the time of writing Almagest.[39] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_(place_name)#cite_note-39) The name Albion appears to have fallen out of use sometime after the Roman conquest of Great Britain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_conquest_of_Britain), after which Britain became the more commonplace name for the island called Great Britain.


Clearly Ptolemy postdates the formation of the English Channel and the North Sea...

[Consol]

And so down the internet rabbit hole I went, curious about yet another distinction in the many names for all or part of the archipeligo off the north west coast of europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles).

I learnt that according to that font of much usually but not always reliable information, Wikipedia:The classical writer, Ptolemy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy), referred to the larger island as great Britain (megale Bretannia) and to Ireland as little Britain (mikra Brettania) in his work, Almagest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almagest) (147–148 AD).[37] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_(place_name)#cite_note-37) In his later work, Geography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_(Ptolemy)) (c. 150 AD), he gave these islands the names[38] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_(place_name)#cite_note-38) Ἀλουίωνος (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion) (Alwiōnos), Ἰουερνίας (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernia) (Iwernias), and Mona (the Isle of Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man)), suggesting these may have been native names of the individual islands not known to him at the time of writing Almagest.[39] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_(place_name)#cite_note-39) The name Albion appears to have fallen out of use sometime after the Roman conquest of Great Britain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_conquest_of_Britain), after which Britain became the more commonplace name for the island called Great Britain.


Clearly Ptolemy postdates the formation of the English Channel and the North Sea...

Complete thread drift but it's only a matter of time before we get to this,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute

[PDR1]

(er, shouldn't that be 'pedantry' ?)

He shoots, he scores!!!

:0)

PDR

[PDR1]

Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung is normally abbreviated to GmbH, but I wouldn’t want to be pedantic in case the abbreviation was intended otherwise.

No, that was just carelessnes on my part which I shall blame on a clearly defective keyboard. My gamekeeper will take the keyboard into the stable yard and adminsiter a sound horsewhipping to encourage it to mend its ways.

PDR

[amos2]

Where else can you find humour like prune?