View Full Version : Australian Base Closure
reazasassain
9th Feb 2020, 11:43
So let’s get this straight the Australians overwhelmingly rejected the companies last offer during negotiations and in return they are treated with a threat of canceling the EBA. All of this during a time when the company is requesting goodwill from all of us.
I guess it is of no surprise that Cathay doesn’t negotiate in good faith. If history has taught us anything you can not trust this or any management group in the company.
So will you give up your goodwill to help out when this is how you are treated in return? It appears the only group the company ever targets is the pilot body. We don’t have to look back to far, just a month ago we didn’t get a full 13th month. This is a prime example where they capped payment at 30K so all office staff could get a full 13th month. However the pilot body is shafted again for a second time in 3 years.
But i don’t think we have to worry about Hong Kong or any base taking up SLS. As CC means no good will towards the company. So I have to say sorry but I will not be able to endorse or support the companies offer.
This is what happens when you treat your employees like **** and manage them with company policies that can and will get amended from time to time to only benefit the company.
stevieboy330
9th Feb 2020, 23:24
Anyone on the Australian Base who signs up for SLS will also be given a free ride on a Unicorn too.
bobrun
10th Feb 2020, 01:56
Shocking turn of events that nobody saw coming (:rolleyes:)....they turn down the deal because they didn't want to get a sick note when sick longer than three days! And oh, they want to be paid by the hours instead of getting a fixed 90% salary. There's no hope of getting any deal with that kind of judgement. Too many are still under the impression we are still living in the old days of cx. Time to catch up with today's realities. HK is just as bad.
Shocking turn of events that nobody saw coming (:rolleyes:)....they turn down the deal because they didn't want to get a sick note when sick longer than three days! And oh, they want to be paid by the hours instead of getting a fixed 90% salary. There's no hope of getting any deal with that kind of judgement. Too many are still under the impression we are still living in the old days of cx. Time to catch up with today's realities. HK is just as bad.
I’d check your sources pal......
bobrun
10th Feb 2020, 09:10
Sources checked, and it gets worst: they were also arguing that, since cx didn't completely take the 13th away from those based in HK but left them with 30K, they should therefore get a pay raise in Oz. It's hard to explain the logic, but yea, that's what their reps were emailing everyone a few weeks ago.
cxorcist
10th Feb 2020, 13:30
Bottom line... Oz AOA overplayed their hand! They’ve been a thorn in CX’s side from their inception. Their first contract took five years to achieve. They are the loudest and least cooperative of the based unions. They’ve made very questionable decisions wrt type changes and base growth. In context, I think AOAA is a case study on how NOT to run a union.
I’m not defending CX management at all, but AOAA was unwilling to be pragmatic and selectively choose their fights. They simply opposed CX on everything. That said, I wish them the best...
Twiglet1
10th Feb 2020, 15:07
They need tne Ryanair treatment - don't like it - close it down. Time to get real world,
OK4Wire
10th Feb 2020, 20:45
Bob, I think you'll find (if you check your sources again) that it was the company that offered a pay rise to all on an Australian base. It's all there, in black and white.
Busbuoy
11th Feb 2020, 00:44
Other than the last post I'm struggling to understand the thrust of this thread.
You all have never trusted anything the company has publicly stated before, why are you buying into their spruke now?
I'm suspicious of some of the new names, but cxorcist, your post surprises me....what gives?
See this is the reason Pprune has become a joke and most crew don’t bother reading this rubbish.........
cxorcist
13th Feb 2020, 14:27
Other than the last post I'm struggling to understand the thrust of this thread.
You all have never trusted anything the company has publicly stated before, why are you buying into their spruke now?
I'm suspicious of some of the new names, but cxorcist, your post surprises me....what gives?
AAOA has been a case study in how not to run a union. I’m not going to detail their misdeeds on here. That would be foolish. I suggest you find the most reasonable and honest AAOA pilot you can and ask them in person about their actions. “Overplaying their hand” is putting it mildly.
Busbuoy
13th Feb 2020, 19:56
AAOA has been a case study in how not to run a union. I’m not going to detail their misdeeds on here. That would be foolish. I suggest you find the most reasonable and honest AAOA pilot you can and ask them in person about their actions. “Overplaying their hand” is putting it mildly.
Sorry mate, that's bollocks. You are grossly misrepresenting the situation. Again...I'm struggling to understand your motivation!
cxorcist
13th Feb 2020, 23:24
I’m not motivated by anything. Just calling it the way I see it. AAOA is the most disruptive and least productive union in the room, every time! They can’t get their agenda straight, and what goals they do have make no sense in the larger context beyond the petty preferences of a few senior members. AAOA is a victim of their own poor leadership and likely some counter productive contributions from the HKAOA.
Frogman1484
14th Feb 2020, 00:01
The state of the union is bad when pilots would rather have no union cover and leave it. Yet the HKAOA continues to dig the hole!
Oasis
14th Feb 2020, 00:43
AAOA has been a case study in how not to run a union. I’m not going to detail their misdeeds on here. That would be foolish. I suggest you find the most reasonable and honest AAOA pilot you can and ask them in person about their actions. “Overplaying their hand” is putting it mildly.
I have no dog in the game, but you could elaborate with some examples.
reazasassain
14th Feb 2020, 01:04
The HKAOA is not a union.
A union wouldn’t sell out its members, a union wouldn’t sue one of their members, a union wouldn’t freely give up goodwill while in CC, a union wouldn’t only look out for the self interests of a few senior members.
the fight should be with the CX. Insteade fight ourselves because we have egotistical morons on the GC who think they are smarter than the membership. They continue to forge their own road ahead ignoring the majority.
Well you reap what you sow. If you haven’t left yet you should. Give yourself a 1.25% pay raise and disband the charade.
cxorcist
14th Feb 2020, 04:24
I have no dog in the game, but you could elaborate with some examples.
No, I’m not at liberty to share details, but many of the AAOA fails are fairly well known. Just ask around. They always have some excuse, but the root cause is usually some version of a few very senior captains on the base not wanting to change with the industry and not caring whether the base grows or not.
Frogman1484
14th Feb 2020, 04:33
No, I’m not at liberty to share details, but many of the AAOA fails are fairly well known. Just ask around. They always have some excuse, but the root cause is usually some version of a few very senior captains on the base not wanting to change with the industry and not caring whether the base grows or not.
I agree with that. A few individuals are protecting their own nest at the detriment of the rest of the pilot body.
No, I’m not at liberty to share details, but many of the AAOA fails are fairly well known. Just ask around. They always have some excuse, but the root cause is usually some version of a few very senior captains on the base not wanting to change with the industry and not caring whether the base grows or not.
oh what utter bull****........
toss off somewhere else will ya.
cxorcist
14th Feb 2020, 14:03
oh what utter bull****........
toss off somewhere else will ya.
No, because I believe it is instructive for the other based unions. When minority, extreme, and unrealistic interests hijack a union, that union is bound to fail. AAOA were also unable to understand the true limitations and scope of their leverage.
All unions have these destructive voices within. The question is whether they formulate union objectives or not, whether they sit in leadership positions or not, whether they infect the rest of the membership or not.
A union cannot combat CX’s toxic management tactics with their own toxicity. The double negative doesn’t create a positive unless you have the courts or some other third party to come in and force an agreement. Even then, I believe the reasonable, measured, and balanced unions tend to do better.
Pickuptruck
14th Feb 2020, 22:16
I’m not motivated by anything. Just calling it the way I see it. AAOA is the most disruptive and least productive union in the room, every time! They can’t get their agenda straight, and what goals they do have make no sense in the larger context beyond the petty preferences of a few senior members. AAOA is a victim of their own poor leadership and likely some counter productive contributions from the HKAOA.
So much bs on this thread, from those on the base who know unless you’re a member you’ll never be privy to the actual minutes of the meetings and deals between the AAOA and the company. Strangely the Aussies seem to alternate between the “yeah we ****** over HKAOA and we don’t care, it’s all about us” but then it’s “we’re all in this together, us unions, the fight is with the company”
Every 5 minutes there’s another threat of a court case if they don’t get what they want. Currently W patterns on the Airbus have been chopped back because the Aussie base demands long layover long hauls and in the past those patterns made up the second half of W patterns. So Aussie commuters who would love a base can’t actually commute either due to those on the base.
From a rough count that’s the 5th time in 6years the Oz base has gone after something solely at the expense of HKAOA and Hong Kong based pilots. That’s their choice, but can we maybe stop pretending it isn’t happening?
Some of you need to get a grip. I just read this and it’s relevant to Australia base as well. Just because we have an association in Oz with some teeth inside the FWA umbrella to make and enforce our contract doesn’t make us the bad guy.........
Back in 2003 and 2009, the pilots answered the Company's request for assistance. Since then, how exactly has the Company rewarded your loyalty? Zero or below inflation pay rises, negligible profit share, base closures, loss of W patterns, replacement of agreements with policy, no flexible working, and still no viable seniority-based way of changing fleet. Globally, housing has been replaced with HKPA, medical benefits reduced together with aggressive sickness management, the Company reaping their benefits of the JCR agreement before prevaricating on the pilot equivalents, all under the overarching attack on contracts with the introduction of COS18. In return, you have duvets and Illy coffee.
Will IB Fayed
15th Feb 2020, 23:04
So much bs on this thread,
........ because the Aussie base demands long layover long hauls and in the past those patterns made up the second half of W patterns. So Aussie commuters who would love a base can’t actually commute either due to those on the base.
Your opening statment describes the rest of your post! All the AAOA has done is ask the soft-rule of keeping trips 6 days or less, be removed. CMP does the rest.
SeldomFixit
18th Feb 2020, 09:38
CX would like nothing more than to close the AUS bases. No one else has had the Gonads to stand up to Swire. The truth in this situation is self evident.
cxorcist
18th Feb 2020, 13:42
CX would like nothing more than to close the AUS bases. No one else has had the Gonads to stand up to Swire. The truth in this situation is self evident.
... and then they can pay to move all those pilots to HK, housing, education, etc. Yep, great cost savings there!
PS - This isn’t to say to AAOA isn’t a bunch of hacks, they are!
... and then they can pay to move all those pilots to HK, housing, education, etc. Yep, great cost savings there!
PS - This isn’t to say to AAOA isn’t a bunch of hacks, they are!
I’d love to know your agenda here? Couldn’t get a base? What’s the story with all this spew?
cxorcist
18th Feb 2020, 22:20
I’d love to know your agenda here? Couldn’t get a base? What’s the story with all this spew?
Honestly, no agenda. I’m not eligible for an Oz base and wouldn’t pay the tax even if I were. My only point is that other TUs should view AAOA as instructive in how NOT to run a union. I don’t wish ill upon Oz based pilots, quite the opposite. They are the victims of awful leadership. If you, ACMS, are part of that leadership, then you know firsthand that I am correct. There’s no point denying what all the other AOAs’ leadership already know.
Dragon Pacific
18th Feb 2020, 23:40
[QUOTE=cxorcist;10690427]... and then they can pay to move all those pilots to HK, housing, education, etc. Yep, great cost savings there
You think housing is going to be available much longer? There is a bloodbath coming; they are going to take full advantage of it. I can see Oz being culled along with a lot else.
AllWobbly
19th Feb 2020, 04:03
[QUOTE=cxorcist;10690427]... and then they can pay to move all those pilots to HK, housing, education, etc. Yep, great cost savings there
You think housing is going to be available much longer? There is a bloodbath coming; they are going to take full advantage of it. I can see Oz being culled along with a lot else.
Like here are 2 letters- one acknowledging redundancy (termination it’s cheaper) and the other sign here for COS18?
main_dog
19th Feb 2020, 09:45
The sooner pilots understand that nothing the company does is about the money, the better. Only one thing is worth more to them than money, and that is behind everything they do.
...
Control?
Farman Biplane
28th Feb 2020, 05:06
How is it that the AAOA is run by kiwis? What’s going on mate? Do you have to be resident in Australia to be a member of a trade union?
smogluver
29th Feb 2020, 10:39
What a bunch of clowns. One clown undermines the guys trying to get his freeloading arse on a better deal and all the panic merchants jump on the bandwagon.
RAT Management
1st Mar 2020, 09:46
What a bunch of clowns. One clown undermines the guys trying to get his freeloading arse on a better deal and all the panic merchants jump on the bandwagon.
You just summed up just about every single type of pilot in this outfit. It's rare to find someone with a backbone or morals or a non self serving attitude. There is no hope.