Gibraltar and Spain gamesmanship.

[Nil by mouth]

With frequent maritime incursions these are more serious!!
From the Gibraltar Chronicle.
A BA flight was delayed both landing and taking off from Gibraltar on Tuesday due to two separate air incursions by Spanish aircraft flying through British airspace without contacting the Rock’s air traffic control tower.

The flight was initially held off the Rock as it came in to land while air traffic controllers tried to establish contact with a Guardia Civil helicopter in British airspace.

Later after the aircraft had landed, its departure was delayed by around 10 minutes due to a Spanish fixed-wing plane flying through British airspace.

In both cases, neither Spanish aircraft had contacted air traffic control in Gibraltar, the Chronicle understands.

There was no danger to aviation at any time and the decision to delay the BA flight in both instances was taken because the Spanish aircraft’s intentions were not clear.

Aerial incursions by Spanish state aircraft are less common than those at sea but are not unheard of.

As with marine incursions, all are closely monitored and logged by the UK, which files protests with Spain on each occasion.

Last night a spokesman for the Foreign Office confirmed both incursions and said the UK would be protesting to Spain.

[Chewing the crud]

Perhaps it is also time to call out Spanish hypocrisy over Ceuta and Melilla in Morocco.

[calypso]

So how much airspace did the Treaty of Utrecht grant the UK around Gibraltar?

[ATC Watcher]

My understanding in my last visit there a couple of years ago was that an agreement under EU supervision was about to be reached with Spain regarding reciprocal use of their airspace with among others, allowing diversions to Malaga .I understand that Brexit might causing a review of that. Gibraltar could be one of the first casualties of Brexit.

[Joe le Taxi]

I'm not sure "gamesmanship" is the right word.

"Reckless endangerment" seems more fitting. Prosecution should follow.

[iggy]

Curiously enough, in Spain we have exactly the same headlines but against the Brits: "UK ship or airplane recklessly incurs in Spanish territory without clearance and blah blah blah".

I also wouldn't call it "gamesmanship", more like "exploiting something that happens everyday to generate propaganda". And this goes for both governments.

[Nil by mouth]

My understanding in my last visit there a couple of years ago was that an agreement under EU supervision was about to be reached with Spain regarding reciprocal use of their airspace with among others, allowing diversions to Malaga .I understand that Brexit might causing a review of that. Gibraltar could be one of the first casualties of Brexit. (my embolding)

I think this at the heart of it, and it can only get worse after the end of January. Our new Gib passports already have 'European Union' removed, so that will ensure hours of delays crossing the frontier.
Out fishing today in my boat (in Spanish waters) the same Spanish twin prop patrol aircraft banked and flew over us a couple of times. The boat does display a red ensign as well as a Spanish flag. We also have our AIS rx/tx on squawking the boat's information, so perhaps someone can tell me if such an aircraft can receive AIS?

Hopefully diversions for Gibraltar bound aircraft to Málaga and Jérez will continue and not go back to the old days when Gib diverted flights had to land at Rabat or Faro before diverting to Málaga.

Perhaps gamesmanship was an understatement for those incursions, it's just that with all of the other incidents that happen around here it does seem like that.

[turbidus]

Gib has been a pain for everything..aerial, surface, and sub-surface transit.

Unfortunately, you have a non-nuclear weapon capable country (Spain) wanting a key passage to the Med that is protected by a nuclear weapon capable country (England)

[bulldog89]

Gib has been a pain for everything..aerial, surface, and sub-surface transit.

Unfortunately, you have a non-nuclear weapon capable country (Spain) wanting a key passage to the Med that is protected by a nuclear weapon capable country (England)

Do you really think that what's holding off Spain from attacking Gibraltar are the nukes?

[Imagegear]

Gib has been a pain for everything..aerial, surface, and sub-surface transit.

Unfortunately, you have a non-nuclear weapon capable country (Spain) wanting a key passage to the Med that is protected by a nuclear weapon capable country (England)

It certainly didn't stop the Argies from invading the Falklands.

IG

[iggy]

It is true that Spain has been claiming Gibraltar for ages, but thinking that we would go to war (regardless of nuke capability) over the Rock is not knowing Spain as a country at all. At this point of time, in Spanish society, any historical, territorial or political claim is viewed as a reminiscence of Franco and his regime and would be rejected by the population.

We would still be making jokes about it, though :O

[ATC Watcher]

It is also forgetting the number of Spanish working in Gibraltar
so perhaps someone can tell me if such an aircraft can receive AIS
Coast Guard and military navy patrol aircraft have an AIS receiver to identify ships.

[Burpbot]

It is funny how the Spanish keep so quiet about Ceuta and its illegal occupation!

launch the QE I say!

[Groundloop]

Gib has been a pain for everything..aerial, surface, and sub-surface transit.

Unfortunately, you have a non-nuclear weapon capable country (Spain) wanting a key passage to the Med that is protected by a nuclear weapon capable country (England)

And in what way is Gibraltar blocking the entrance to the Med?

BTW, the country is the United Kingdom not England (at least for the time being!)

[Diesel_10]

For Gibraltar substitute Malvinas Paracel Is. Melilla Tuzla and from the sublime to the ridiculous Rockall and Taiwan
For Spaniards substitute Argentines, Faroese, Danes, Russians, Filipinos, Yanks, Chinese, Irish, Moroccans. All claim to be tolerant but deep deep down inside they are just Nationalistic like the rest of the Protagonists.........

[pax britanica]

And at the top of the list of claims and colonies and all remnants from the 18th century and beyond is wht is now the UK. Clealry Gbraltar is Spansih and is part of Spain but we got the right to govern it at treaty of Utrecht .

As for incursions in air space-clearly not on the table back then as someone pointed out these appear about UK aircraft in the Spanish papers too but they are obviously lies because they are dodgy Spaniards and we are British and therefore always right.

Gib obviously knew its mind on the Eu as it voted 100% remain -and was I dreaming that someone mentioned nuclear weapons in this context? I suppose nukes are about the only thing we have left and no doubt they can only be used with US approval

[Nil by mouth]

Coast Guard and military navy patrol aircraft have an AIS receiver to identify ships.

Thank you for that, I thought that might be the case. I suppose too those aircraft can talk to boats on CH 16?

[Hamish 123]

a nuclear weapon capable country (England)

Bloody hell! Sneaked the break up of the UK under all the Brexit stuff, obviously!

[Wycombe]

a nuclear weapon capable country (England)

Except that of course that the nukes are not (based) here (England!)

The Chief Krankie would be happy for them to be moved here though.

[Nil by mouth]

Sort of off topic but I'm sure the border queues will be long and slow tomorrow...

https://www.gbc.gi/news/gibraltar-mark-eu-departure-short-ceremony-frontier

[The Banjo]

Perhaps the Spaniards are hoping that an aerial armada
might achieve better results than their last effort in 1588. The results of which are best viewed from a glass bottom boat.

[ATC Watcher]

I am constantly amazed how easy it is to open the nationalist devil in relatively well educated people. cerebrating the Brexit last night like a victory and now evocation of nuclear weapons and glass boats against Spain , a fellow country where millions of Brits are spending their holidays each year. This is beyond comprehension to me, maybe it is time for you guys to buys caps with Make Britain Great Again ( like in 1588) and follow a leader that will tell you extraordinary lies....

[meleagertoo]

It is of course complete nonsense to suggest that Gib is Spanish territory.
As eny fule no it was ceded to UK in perpetuity by the treaty of Utrecht following the War of Spanish Succession, fundamentally a Habsburg claim to the Spanish throne.

It is this clearly and unequivocably British.

The Falklands were never ceded to Britain by international treaty, merely claimed - but equally unequivocably British as no one else had claimed them first. They no more belong to Argentina due to proximity (an utterly spurious and worthless concept) than the Channel Islands belong to France or the Isle of Man belongs to Ireland, or, for that matter that Ireland belongs to Gt. Britain.

If Spain claims Gib it will have to show the Treaty of Utrecht was somehow illegal.

And given their armed occupation of Ceuta and Mellila that is ratified by no treaty I know of this claim is about as hypocritical and irrational as irrational hypocricy gets.

[foxcharliep2]

I am constantly amazed how easy it is to open the nationalist devil in relatively well educated people. cerebrating the Brexit last night like a victory and now evocation of nuclear weapons and glass boats against Spain , a fellow country where millions of Brits are spending their holidays each year. This is beyond comprehension to me, maybe it is time for you guys to buys caps with Make Britain Great Again ( like in 1588) and follow a leader that will tell you extraordinary lies....

Fully agree - except for the "relatively well educated people" part ...

[Herod]

He did say "relatively"