RAF to MPN [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Asturias56

28th Jan 2020, 08:45

In the light of the new second commercial service to the Falklands see|:_

https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/629215-falklands-second-commercial-route.html

Anyone know if the RAF flights will stop taking civilians from Brize?

Countdown begins

29th Jan 2020, 07:18

I have to ask, you seem hell bent on opening threads......... that ..... are basically fishing for people to say a little....... too much.
If it’s not in the magazines....... and papers you scour perhaps make a friend...... or two, and ask by PM.
Have you ever been ....... military?

Asturias56

29th Jan 2020, 07:51

No - it 's not a secret surely? The FI Tourist Board have/had links for tourists on to how to book RAF flights from Brize for at least 10 years - times, dates, gate to arrive at, paperwork etc. Some people on here assume that if it's painted grey it's a secret like Ultra.

A mate of mine is planning a trip this fall (well spring down there) and I was trying to help - I was last down there before they'd finalized the Second Flight

FYI not military but I am bound by the Official Secrets Act on certain work

Video Mixdown

29th Jan 2020, 10:07

Some people on here assume that if it's painted grey it's a secret like Ultra.

That's the only safe assumption for anyone with privileged access. If your ‘mate’ wants to book a flight there are well publicised ways of doing so and there is no need to seek ‘inside’ information here. You do not get to decide for yourself which military information is and is not classified - if you had any type of security clearance you would know that.

beardy

29th Jan 2020, 10:40

That's the only safe assumption for anyone with privileged access. If your ‘mate’ wants to book a flight there are well publicised ways of doing so and there is no need to seek ‘inside’ information here. You do not get to decide for yourself which military information is and is not classified - if you had any type of security clearance you would know that.
Oddly enough, someone, and at times it was me, does decide what information is classified. I have seen 'intentionally blank' pages classified! Over classification is a big problem since it degrades the system, produces unnecessary levels of handling and storage and reinforces silo thinking. It ain't secret just 'cos it's grey.

Asturias56

29th Jan 2020, 11:16

Sorry Video I cannot see how a service which has been publically offered for well over 10 years on a twice weekly basis can be thought to be "secret" by any normal definition of the word. The flights are well known, a lot of people on here have taken them. They appear in guides such as the OAG monthly worldwide flight guides that anyone can buy and which travel agents subscribe to across the world. You can (or could) book them over the Internet or through your travel agent.

The Argentinians know all about them

The "inside information" was are they still selling tickets to civilians......................

Davef68

29th Jan 2020, 11:44

Connsidering it's a civillian flight operated by a contractor (albeit on behalf of the MOD) and is the only direct link to the UK, the chances of it stopping taking civillians are unlikely.

Nige321

29th Jan 2020, 12:12

You can go down there for a marathon (https://www.falklandsultra.com/) now...
Only £5,200... :bored:

golfbananajam

29th Jan 2020, 12:15

Oddly enough, someone, and at times it was me, does decide what information is classified. I have seen 'intentionally blank' pages classified! Over classification is a big problem since it degrades the system, produces unnecessary levels of handling and storage and reinforces silo thinking. It ain't secret just 'cos it's grey.

Good post (except all three services are just as guilty), couldn't agree more.

golfbananajam

29th Jan 2020, 12:36

Does this still happen on arrival at MPH, it was always a welcome sight...........it meant you were nearly there and could get off the god***ed trike.https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1094x441/intercept_2_5ba8ce3ac6a249451e44057d9944d26d7a787641.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1189x783/intercept_e3499a40a1376818d8528e2f3c408d540767511e.png

NutLoose

29th Jan 2020, 15:55

And for those visiting that would like to buy a little getaway from it all....erm..... ok a rather large getaway, Pebble Island is up for sale, all 26,747 acres, and it does not mention Argentinians need not apply either..

https://www.privateislandsonline.com/south-america/falklands/pebble-island

Asturias56

1st Feb 2020, 08:07

FYI I understand the AIr Bridge is still taking civilian passengers for the foreseeable future

also see https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisation/stations/raf-brize-norton/passenger-info/

kkbuk

2nd Feb 2020, 21:17

Countdown begins, what is the significance of all the dots used in your post? It makes for disjointed reading.

Fortissimo

3rd Feb 2020, 10:03

Over classification is a big problem since it degrades the system, produces unnecessary levels of handling and storage and reinforces silo thinking. It ain't secret just 'cos it's grey.

Eons ago at RAF Stanley we had a very impressive book classified 'SECRET UK EYES A' and 'AIRCREW EYES ONLY'. It contained - amongst other things which were indeed properly classified - a recce guide to Argentinian air assets that still bore the page references of its source. (Date) Flight International (page) along with the suitably exotic red over-stamp top and bottom. I politely asked the owner of the book what was classified about something published in Flight. His reply? "The fact that we are using it!" :ugh:

Wycombe

3rd Feb 2020, 12:42

In relation to Pebble and the opportunity to establish high end tourism

Can't see that happening unless the weather has improved a bit since I went there. The penguins stink aswell!

There were still bits of Pucara lying around when I walked the airstrip 20 years ago (18 years after the war)

Asturias56

3rd Feb 2020, 13:37

There's been quite an uptick in cruises going to Stanley - not sure how many of the make it much further. An islander told me that a cruise ship brings in £ 15 per passenger but a someone who comes and spends a week there is worth over £ 1400................

https://falklandshelicopterservices.com/ is charging £349 per person (minimum of two passengers). to go to Volunteer Point and back so there is clearly a market of well heeled tourists............

Pontius Navigator

3rd Feb 2020, 21:34

I politely asked the owner of the book what was classified about something published in Flight. His reply? "The fact that we are using it!" https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies2/eusa_wall.gif

As a general rule that is true as it gave credibility to a public source. 'We know they know we know, but do they know we know they know?'

We once had an open source Russian document that accurately set out the detail on our sensitive acoustic sensors one of which was never talked about outside secure rooms.

Yellow Sun

4th Feb 2020, 06:58

As a general rule that is true as it gave credibility to a public source. 'We know they know we know, but do they know we know they know?'

We once had an open source Russian document that accurately set out the detail on our sensitive acoustic sensors one of which was never talked about outside secure rooms.

For anyone interested in learning more about the use of “open sources” I recommend:

Spying on the Bomb by Jeffrey T. Richelson

ISBN: 978-0-393-32982-7

YS

NutLoose

5th Feb 2020, 18:35

Eons ago at RAF Stanley we had a very impressive book classified 'SECRET UK EYES A' and 'AIRCREW EYES ONLY'. It contained - amongst other things which were indeed properly classified - a recce guide to Argentinian air assets that still bore the page references of its source. (Date) Flight International (page) along with the suitably exotic red over-stamp top and bottom. I politely asked the owner of the book what was classified about something published in Flight. His reply? "The fact that we are using it!" :ugh:

i remember a similar tale when the F-4 Phantom came out, flight sent a couple of guys to look around the factory, one was the cutaway artist, afterwards the cutaway artist and the guy sat down and working from their visit and what the knew off its components produced a reasonable cutaway drawing which was published in flight, they were then visited by men in dark suits and glasses asking who had provided them with the secret drawings to produce the drawing, they told them it was all a guestimate based on panel lines etc..... Following on many moons later the artist revisited McDonnell and was pleased to see a blown up picture of his drawing being used in the spares department as reference. Such was the guestimates accuracy.

Asturias56

6th Feb 2020, 07:31

And don't talk about the tanker at MPN that you weren't allowed to photograph - the one that was parked in exactly the same place on every time you came or went and was in the same spot on Goggle Earth......................

One of the Travel Agents said back in ?2018? they suddenly introduced a new retirement that everyone without a pass had to troop off the bus from Stanley at the gate at MPN and be issued with a photo pass before they joined the weekly Punta Arenas flight. They'd expostulated with Security but were told it was to stop terrorists. The locals pointed out that since any terrorist would

a) have arrived via MPN
b) would hardly be able to hide in a population of 1900 people
c) everyone got of the bus and went straight into the checkin/security area
d) no-one ever collected or checked the passes after they were issued
it was all a bit of overkill - or to give the squaddies something to do on a Saturday afternoon.....................

Video Mixdown

6th Feb 2020, 12:41

And don't talk about the tanker at MPN that you weren't allowed to photograph
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/574x270/sign_29f22e14be4440ccd7896c13cff5adbc6dde99fd.jpg
The sign shown here, or one like it, is displayed at the main gate of every RAF Station at home and abroad. Why did you think it didn’t apply to you? You must know that in many countries - maybe even your own - you would be arrested, tried, sentenced and banged up for doing what you did.

Asturias56

6th Feb 2020, 16:08

I didn't photograph it dear boy and never said I did - and FYI the notices weren't/aren't displayed at Punta Arenas when you get on the plane - you just get told when you disembark at MPN - "don't take any pictures on the apron" - there are the usual notices inside the Terminal about no pictures in Immigration, Customs and Security.

The Tanker was there, in exactly the same place on every visit, and it was on Google Earth as well - that's all I'm saying....................

beardy

6th Feb 2020, 16:43

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/574x270/sign_29f22e14be4440ccd7896c13cff5adbc6dde99fd.jpg
The sign shown here, or one like it, is displayed at the main gate of every RAF Station at home and abroad. Why did you think it didn’t apply to you? You must know that in many countries - maybe even your own - you would be arrested, tried, sentenced and banged up for doing what you did.
'Would' implies certainty, the wording is 'may' which is much more vague and implies the use of common sense when deciding whether or not to arrest and / or prosecute. Similar wording appears at the RAF Museum. Go figure.
There does seem to be an element of authoritarianism creeping into some of the comments here.

Davef68

6th Feb 2020, 17:02

'Would' implies certainty, the wording is 'may' which is much more vague and implies the use of common sense when deciding whether or not to arrest and / or prosecute. Similar wording appears at the RAF Museum. Go figure.
There does seem to be an element of authoritarianism creeping into some of the comments here.

I think the sign underneath is the more relevant one being referred to.

beardy

6th Feb 2020, 21:05

I think the sign underneath is the more relevant one being referred to.
I didn't read the small print 😁!
I must remember never to take photos at open days 😉

BVRAAM

6th Feb 2020, 21:35