Changing cockpit bulbs

[Miles Magister]

Guys,

Are there any regulations that either allow or prohibit the changing of cockpit bulbs? I am after the advice for the changing of undercarraige indication filaments and the square push buttons. I did it all my career but have had a recent discussion where younger pilots refuse to do it.

In part M I can only find reference to owner pilots, not to professional chaps on CAT.

Thank you in advance

MM

[blue up]

I guess you'd need to know if the Korry switches used 387 bulbs or not.
(If you don't understand the question then you probably shouldn't be changing bulbs?)

PS. Be careful Googling for the bulbs. Typing "Midget Flange" into a search engine can be dangerous!

[AmarokGTI]

Where I work there we can change flight deck light bulbs (387/327) as long as we document and close the defect correctly. This is compliant with CASR 42.

[Webby737]

Hi MM,

You don't mention what type of aircraft you fly but assuming it's a commercial aircraft in EASA land have a look at AMC 145.A.30
It states the following:

AMC145.A.30(j)(4)
Personnel requirements
For the issue of a limited certification authorisation:

(a) the commander should hold either an air transport pilots license (ATPL), or a commercial pilots license (CPL).
(b) The flight engineer should hold either an ATPL, CPL or a national flight engineer licence acceptable to the competent authority on the aircraft type.

In addition the limited certification authorisation is subject to the maintenance organisation exposition containing procedures to address the personnel requirements of 145.A.30(e) and associated AMC and guidance material. The procedures should be accepted by the competent authority and should include as a minimum:

(a) Completion of adequate maintenance airworthiness regulation training.
(b) Completion of adequate task training for the specific task on the aircraft. The task training should be of sufficient duration to ensure that the individual has a thorough understanding of the task to be completed and will involve training in the use of associated maintenance data.
(c) Completion of the procedural training as specified in Part-145.

2.(i) Typical tasks that may be certified and/or carried out by the commander holding an ATPL or CPL are minor maintenance or simple checks included in the following list:
(a) Replacement of internal lights, filaments and flash tubes.
(b) Closing of cowlings and refitment of quick access inspection panels.
(c) Role changes e.g. stretcher fit, dual controls, FLIR, doors, photographic equipment etc.
(d) Inspection for and removal of de-icing/anti-icing fluid residues, including removal/closure of panels, cowls or covers that are easily accessible but not requiring the use of special tools.
(e) Any check/replacement involving simple techniques consistent with this AMC and as agreed by the competent authority.

[deja vu]

Sorry, "how many pilots does it take to change a light bulb"? Answer is any number but leave at least one to fly the aircraft.

[Commander Taco]

Sorry, "how many pilots does it take to change a light bulb"? Answer is any number but leave at least one to fly the aircraft.

It only takes one pilot to hold the lightbulb while the world revolves around him. :-)

[neilki]

Real Pilots aren't afraid of the dark.....

[cribble]

I am OK with doing bulb changes on the ground, at the halt. Having been around when the L1011 landed gracefully in the Everglades, I have never been a bulb changer in the air. Most of the switches I have been around have two bulbs to mitigate the risk.

[plhought]

At my outfit only the captain's receive the "elementary maintenance training" - hence why FOs rarely do it.

They make up and sign off the defect themselves in the technical log.

Honestly though at bases where maintenance personnel are available it's easier for everyone if a mechanic does it.

[boeing_eng]

Don't play with push button Korry switch bulbs on the 757/767 unless you are brave......they regularly fall to bits and are over-complex! I avoid re-lamping them on tight turn-rounds unless absolutely necessary!

[deltahotel]

I wouldn’t even try. Not trained, no experience, clumsy. So I’d break, drop, lose or all three. Engineers’ job.

[Miles Magister]

Thank you Guys,

Webby737 you posted exactly what I was looking for but could not find for some reason which must be lack of ability.
AmarokGTI you posted exactly what I have always done but I seem to be dealing with people these days who are scared of touching the bulbs and engineers who do not want them to.

I do not fly any more myself, have just been advising people.

I have changed many Korry Switch bulbs but always carefully and when stationary on the ground, the important thing as mentioned above is to make sure you replace with the correct bulb. We used to call them 'Spangles' in the RAF after the square boiled sweets that only those of a certain age will remember!

MM

[misd-agin]

Our recommendations were if you replace one bulb to replace both bulbs. Supposedly the older bulb was more likely to fail if it was paired with a new bulb. So many guys busted the 757/767 switches that the procedure changed "leave them alone. Let mx do it."

[gearlever]

It was the very last sector of my final check ride to get my third stripe as a FO on B727. We were cruising FL 3xx. One of the bulbs (387?) of the green LH gear light was blown. I asked the Check CPT to change the bulb, he agreed. After pushing the light assy back I switched on the master annunciator lights test switch (without asking....)oops:rolleyes:

All green gear lights on, all red gear lights on, all three low oil pressure warning lights on, plus some others, can't rememeber. My face became red, dark red...

The CPT wasn't amused, so was the FE...
Okay, check ride passed, because my flying wasn't bad, but lesson learned.
What I didn't know was that this happened a few times before on our fleet and somewhere it was written to do the master ann light test only on ground:=

[Miles Magister]

misd-agin
I totally agree with both of your comments. My conversation which prompted the thread was with some corporate pilots who have no support down route.

gearlever,
There for the grace of God!!! One of those moments when experience is gained 10 seconds after you needed it and those of us experienced enough to have flown jets of that era have all been there!!!

[the_stranger]

Am not allowed to do it on the a330, did it loads of time on the fokker50. (Dropped and lost some bulbs too..)

[Webby737]

Thank you Guys,

Webby737 you posted exactly what I was looking for but could not find for some reason which must be lack of ability.
AmarokGTI you posted exactly what I have always done but I seem to be dealing with people these days who are scared of touching the bulbs and engineers who do not want them to.

I do not fly any more myself, have just been advising people.

I have changed many Korry Switch bulbs but always carefully and when stationary on the ground, the important thing as mentioned above is to make sure you replace with the correct bulb. We used to call them 'Spangles' in the RAF after the square boiled sweets that only those of a certain age will remember!

MM

Happy New Year to you all !
MM, I'm glad to be of help. The fact you could't find what you were looking for is nothing to do with your lack of ability, simply the lack of training and a good example of why the AMC exists.
As mentioned in the AMC
"(a) Completion of adequate maintenance airworthiness regulation training."
In your defence, many engineers wouldn't be able to find it either unless they've been somehow involved in the QA side of things.
Like many things in this industry it's about ticking boxes and proving competence, if you (or anyone else) had changed a filament which had somehow lead to an incident or accident you wouldn't have a leg to stand on with the authorities unless you had a piece of paper stating that you had received the required training and had been proved competent to perform the task.
I know a lot of our training and paperwork sometimes seems like a waste of time but it's all part of the big umbrella that will prevent the sh*t landing on you if the worst happens !

[misd-agin]

misd-agin
I totally agree with both of your comments. My conversation which prompted the thread was with some corporate pilots who have no support down route.

gearlever,
There for the grace of God!!! One of those moments when experience is gained 10 seconds after you needed it and those of us experienced enough to have flown jets of that era have all been there!!!

Corporate we used to change them ourselves. Even after it became "let mx do it" depending upon circumstances I'd still change them. Mx guys were usually tougher on the switches then I was so I figured there's a bigger chance of a delay if they change them. 387's is right. You're just trying to pull the switch out about 2-3 mm (1/8 inch) (??) and no farther if you didn't want to damage them.

[blue up]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/350x144/387_887822db82037204c070c12d80a6237bec8eff7d.jpg
A bit further on the 747/757/767 on the overhead panel. Nightmare to do these ones as the guts have to be pulled a long way out and the unit hangs on 2 fairly fragile rods. Not a job to be hurried.

[beamer]

Most bulbs are not a problem but some press switches can be more difficult. I suppose, if in doubt then don't, but I must have changed hundreds over the years without having a issue. Sometimes an engineer is not available - again how many times have I had to fix seats, top up oils and hydraulics, load bags, clean cabins - more times than I care to mention but sometimes you just have to get on with it..........actually, I can only remember a couple of times when I helped out with the baggage due to the Spanish being on strike !

[Aristidis]

This was really helpful

[stilton]

It was the very last sector of my final check ride to get my third stripe as a FO on B727. We were cruising FL 3xx. One of the bulbs (387?) of the green LH gear light was blown. I asked the Check CPT to change the bulb, he agreed. After pushing the light assy back I switched on the master annunciator lights test switch (without asking....)oops:rolleyes:

All green gear lights on, all red gear lights on, all three low oil pressure warning lights on, plus some others, can't rememeber. My face became red, dark red...

The CPT wasn't amused, so was the FE...
Okay, check ride passed, because my flying wasn't bad, but lesson learned.
What I didn't know was that this happened a few times before on our fleet and somewhere it was written to do the master ann light test only on ground:=

I spent six years flying the 727 as FE and FO, saw the master light test done on the ground and airborne many times, we had no such restriction

[megan]

Never had a bulb failure, had a nav light hanging by a wire though, circumstances required a ground handler cut the wire and pass to me for later fitment when we got home.

[70 Mustang]

Most all the lights are very simple to replace. If there is a spare.

Had a few fall out from the upper panel from time to time.

[hunterboy]

I thought the most dangerous thing in a cockpit was a pilot with a Swiss Army knife….