Saudi Student Shooting at NAS Pensacola

[ORAC]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/06/florida-shooting-reports-pensacola-naval-base-latest

Florida naval air station shooter was Saudi student, says official (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/06/florida-shooting-reports-pensacola-naval-base-latest)

An aviation student from Saudi Arabia opened fire in a classroom building at the naval air station (Nas) in Pensacola, Florida (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/florida), on Friday morning, a US official said, an attack that left three dead in addition to the assailant.

The assault was the second at a US navy base this week and prompted a massive law enforcement response and a lockdown at the base.

The student, who was fatally shot by a sheriff’s deputy, was a second lieutenant in the Saudi air force, said two US officials who spoke on condition of anonymity to disclose information that had not yet been made public. The officials said authorities were investigating whether the attack was terrorism-related.

tweeted

[RAFEngO74to09]

1st Press Conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi8AHTXU9kM

2nd Press Conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc7uzPSbbog

11 others hospitalized - excellent reaction from both DoD security forces and the local Sheriff's department with the threat neutralized within minutes within a 2-storey aviator's classroom building - 2 of the deputies shot - non-life threatening injuries.

Shooter smuggled the weapon on base - firearms not allowed on base except for military / civilian security and law enforcement.

[RAFEngO74to09]

FBI Update - late evening Dec 6:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgdlnfFVyJk#t=3m54s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgdlnfFVyJk#t=3m54s)

[Asturias56]

and at Pearl harbour............. :(

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/us/hawaii-pearl-harbor-base-shooting.html

A US sailor opened fire at the historic military base in Pearl Harbor on Wednesday afternoon, authorities said, killing two civilian workers and injuring a third before taking his own life.

The incident took place at the naval shipyard, just days before thousands were scheduled to gather at the storied military base to mark the 78th anniversary of the Japanese bombing that launched the US into the second world war.

The shooter was identified on Thursday as 22-year-old G Romero, according to a military official who spoke on condition of anonymity to provide details that had not been made public.

The names of the victims were not yet released. Rear Adm Robert Chadwick, the commander of Navy Region Hawaii, said he did not know the motive behind the attack, nor was it known if the sailor and the three male civilians had any type of relationship.

“We have no indication yet whether they were targeted or if it was a random shooting,” Chadwick said.

[VinRouge]

Fingers crossed the 2 Arabs filming the incident and not hiding whilst the shooting was going on will be found to be accessories and have their necks wrung.

[Asturias56]

"Fingers crossed the 2 Arabs filming the incident and not hiding whilst the shooting was going on will be found to be accessories and have their necks wrung."

would you apply the same penalties to everyone who filmed the recent London Bridge Incident Vin?

[Airbubba]

Fingers crossed the 2 Arabs filming the incident and not hiding whilst the shooting was going on will be found to be accessories and have their necks wrung.


Lone wolf, acted alone, no known ties to terrorism, isolated random act of violence etc. are the customary disclaimers in these incidents.

[Airbubba]

Breaking News from the New York Times:


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1339x701/nyt_pns_08d0276c437c609462070e0ce6afbb9e24b7c3e1.jpg

[Airbubba]

Another bulletin from the Associated Press:

Official: Base shooter watched shooting videos before attack

By BILL KACZOR and BRENDAN FARRINGTON 12 minutes ago


PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) — A US official says the Saudi student who fatally shot three people at a Florida naval base had hosted a dinner party the night before to watch videos of mass shootings. The official was briefed by federal investigators and spoke on condition of anonymity. He says authorities tell him one Saudi student was recording outside the building while the shooting took place. He says 10 Saudi students are being held at the base and that several others are still unaccounted for.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.

[Less Hair]

It won't bring back those poor shooting victims but SA should be made to pay tons and tons of money to all the victims and victim's families. Who selected those guys for foreign exchange training?

[Airbubba]

Who selected those guys for foreign exchange training?

After the 9-11 attacks who knew that Saudi flight students might be a problem? :confused:

As AFP observes:

The shooting marks a setback in the kingdom's efforts to shrug off its longstanding reputation for promoting religious extremism after the September 11, 2001 attacks in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis.

https://news.yahoo.com/saudis-distance-themselves-us-naval-shooter-113700686.html

[OldnGrounded]

After the 9-11 attacks who knew that Saudi flight students might be a problem? :confused:


We probably have some political disagreements, Bubba, but we agree on this: The Saudis are not our friends.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Victims named and some additional information from a prepared statement by the CO.
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/08/navy-names-the-three-sailors-killed-in-pensacola-shooting-spree/ (https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/08/navy-names-the-three-sailors-killed-in-pensacola-shooting-spree/)

[Ascend Charlie]

In the flying school I was working at, the school had no say in who the Saudi students were, they were selected on their side of the puddle. Usually they had a daddy who was a colonel or a general, and one of the students was from the al-Saud family, but a long way down the line for the throne.

The majority were only there for the status of being in the military and the higher status of being a pilot. Passing the course was low on their list of priorities, compared to the delights of living here outside the sandcastle. Graduation presents from their families included the odd Ferrari.

[Asturias56]

"Lone wolf, acted alone, no known ties to terrorism, isolated random act of violence etc. are the customary disclaimers in these incidents"

You're right Bubba - that's what they roll out whenever anyone goes crazy in the USA and shoots a bunch of innocents - they're nutters with a gun that's all

[jolihokistix]

At college in the US, I saw many students from abroad who seemed to fit in comfortably, being able to find friends and meaningful things to do, and a very few who remained mostly in their room, uptight, critical and distant. These latter were difficult to talk to, as if their real self remained hidden behind a screen or filter of their own 'superior' culture. Did their parents hope that by sending them abroad the experience might open them up, I wondered?

I suspect that the King will be wanting to know if there are any others like him in the Saudi Air Force. His kind of thinking is not looked kindly upon there.

[Pontius Navigator]

"Fingers crossed the 2 Arabs filming the incident and not hiding whilst the shooting was going on will be found to be accessories and have their necks wrung."

would you apply the same penalties to everyone who filmed the recent London Bridge Incident Vin?
If they were associated with the knife man, yes.

[VinRouge]

If they were associated with the knife man, yes.
filming nutter on other side of street with knife is different to filming a guy who can easily choose you as the next target with a ballistic weapon. It allows for a certain degree of complicity, non?

[Asturias56]

"It allows for a certain degree of complicity, non?" I'm baffled, honestly - are you saying they are accomplices (but be careful..... )

[RAFEngO74to09]

FBI Update 8 Dec 19 - only the US Attorney and the SAC FBI Field Office Jacksonville spoke - nothing new apart from the following official confirmations:

- It has been classified as an act of terrorism.
- There was only one shooter whose identity was officially confirmed.
- All foreign students have been accounted for (there had been some fake news to the contrary).
- No Saudi students are in FBI custody - they have been confined to base by their CO - they are cooperating with the investigation.
- The firearm was a Glock Model 45 9mm and it was purchased legally (again contrary to fake news regarding foreign nationals not being allowed to purchase firearms - there must be some applicable exemption clause).

All other obvious questions were asked but the FBI SAC declined to answer due to the ongoing investigation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T4gYNgv_ew#t=23m07s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T4gYNgv_ew#t=23m07s)

[Airbubba]

"Lone wolf, acted alone, no known ties to terrorism, isolated random act of violence etc. are the customary disclaimers in these incidents"

You're right Bubba - that's what they roll out whenever anyone goes crazy in the USA and shoots a bunch of innocents - they're nutters with a gun that's all

The classic initial reporting in the U.S. in one of these attacks where the Takbir is shouted is to profess puzzlement at the possible motive. Who is behind these repeated horrific incidents? Is it the Baptists? The Norwegians? 'The search for answers continues...'

Then, if a connection to radical Islam is indicated, the obligatory 'Muslims fear backlash' article is posted. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just some observations on the formulaic American news coverage.

I'm curious about the timing of two attacks at Navy bases a couple of days apart. Was the Pearl Harbor shooting done by a mentally disturbed sailor who had been to Captain's Mast and then given a gun to guard his boat? Was the Navy Pensacola attack a sudden copycat jihadi response? Or, were these shootings planned together as hard to defend against insider attacks against the Great Satan as revenge for killing some ISIS leader?

[BVRAAM]

The Saudi's are not our friends.

[Asturias56]

If you take out the dog-whistle "Saudi" it's another US "man-with-gun kills innocents " which happens with alarming frequency I'm afraid which will continue as long as the current interpretation of the Second Amendment is supported

[Lonewolf_50]

Not a dog whistle, Asturias; that was a really lame attempt to be cute if you bother to remember what happened at Fort Hood.

1. I suggest that you clue up about Saudi pilots who have been part of the "train foreigners" package the USN has had in place in Pensacola for decades. (We also have had boatloads non Arab sorts, like NATO allies and Brazilians, reaching back to well before I ever showed up there as an ensign while Carter was president ...)
While a few get with the program and did well, far too many were in that billet due to a family connection and prestige.
Nearly two decades ago I was confronted with an asylum request (had to staff it) from one of these "not so right stuff" candidates. This non performer, having been disenrolled due to lack of performance, was asking for political asylum since he was afraid he'd be killed when he got home due to the shame he caused his family.
We eventuall punted that one off to OLA at the Pentagon, and they handled it).

2. As to this case, this little Saudi Snowflake (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pensacola-attack-probed-for-terrorism-link-saudi-suspect-clashed-with-instructor/ar-BBXXiS8?ocid=ientp) has no business in an aviation squadron, if this article is to be believed.

As the F.B.I. continues to conduct interviews with everyone at the Pensacola Naval Air Station who may have had contact with the gunman, identified as Second Lt. Mohammed Alshamrani, a new report emerged that the Saudi trainee filed a formal complaint earlier this year against one of his instructors, who left him “infuriated” in class by tagging him with a derogatory nickname.

The complaint, quoted in a communication circulated among people connected to the flight training, said that the instructor referred to Lieutenant Alshamrani as “Porn Stash” in front of about 10 other aviation students, embarrassing and angering him.
Got his little panties in a wad over a call sign / flying name. That one's pretty mild compared to stuff I saw all over the fleet.

Do you accept that as justification for shooting up a classroom, or not?

[peter we]

Not a dog whistle, Asturias; that was a really lame attempt to be cute if you bother to remember what happened at Fort Hood.

1. I suggest that you clue up about Saudi pilots who have been part of the "train foreigners" package the USN has had in place in Pensacola for decades. (We also have had boatloads non Arab sorts, like NATO allies and Brazilians, reaching back to well before I ever showed up there as an ensign while Carter was president ...)
While a few get with the program and did well, far too many were in that billet due to a family connection and prestige.
Nearly two decades ago I was confronted with an asylum request (had to staff it) from one of these "not so right stuff" candidates. This non performer, having been disenrolled due to lack of performance, was asking for political asylum since he was afraid he'd be killed when he got home due to the shame he caused his family.
We eventuall punted that one off to OLA at the Pentagon, and they handled it).

2. As to this case, this little Saudi Snowflake (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pensacola-attack-probed-for-terrorism-link-saudi-suspect-clashed-with-instructor/ar-BBXXiS8?ocid=ientp) has no business in an aviation squadron, if this article is to be believed.


Got his little panties in a wad over a call sign / flying name. That one's pretty mild compared to stuff I saw all over the fleet.

Do you accept that as justification for shooting up a classroom, or not?

It was a serious enough insult for him, apparently. Pornstache was reference to his moustache.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=PornTache

[Lonewolf_50]

I think, peter, that if you bother to read the whole article, a complaint was filed and a personnel action taken.
“Appropriate personnel action was taken regarding the incident in question, corrective action was taken, the matter was closed back in April, and we have no further comment,” Mr. Busey said.
Shall we put you in the "apologist for murder" column?

Also, Peter, I'll thank you not to insult my intelligence.
I got the joke as soon as I saw the nickname, and the picture.
I am guessing that you didn't.
There is a picture of me from my flight school days (back before there was an internet) that has me sporting a similar mustache (albeit a bit fuller) on my face. My wife still laughs about it, when it comes up.

Years later (as in, within the past decade) a friend saw it and asked me if I was going for the porn star look back in the day.
I shot nobody, and I didn't get all outraged and indignant.

Then again, I'm neither a snowflake nor a Saudi.

[peter we]

I think, peter, that if you bother to read the whole article that the Navy did something about it.
I guess we can put you in "apologist for murder" column, eh?
I don't make personal insults, belittle or mock people.
Mainly because I think its wrong, but also because the world is full of dead people who insulted a delicate ego.
There a lot of men who fall into that category..

"snowflake". I guess half of prison inmates are snowflakes in that case.

[Lonewolf_50]

I don't make personal insults, belittle or mock people.
Mainly because I think its wrong, but also because the world is full of dead people who insulted a delicate ego.
There a lot of men who fall into that category.
You may not care, since this didn't happen to your people.
It happened to my people. So I care.
The excuses you offer for that piece of dog crap are beneath contempt.
Regarding snowflakes; if one has not got a thick skin, one is ill suited for military aviation.

[megan]

"train foreigners" package the USN has had in place in Pensacola for decades. (We also have had boatloads non Arab sorts, like NATO allies and Brazilians 1967 we had Germans, Brazilians, Australians and Vietnamese. One instructor got a thank letter from a ex student, Vietnamese, expressing gratitude for the training and he was now flying Mig 21.

[RAFEngO74to09]

The loophole used to purchase the weapon legally was a hunting permit + proof of residence.

[Lonewolf_50]

It won't bring back those poor shooting victims but SA should be made to pay tons and tons of money to all the victims and victim's families. Who selected those guys for foreign exchange training?
I had a long chat with a friend who used to work foreign student training issues. But we both have been out of uniform for a while.

1. Significant State Department influence.

2. Vetting usually done by home nation, not by US. (Though a few new rules did crop up from DHS and State Department)

3. After 9-11, the Navy had a haiatus on admitting foreign students from selected states in the Gulf region, but not due to the Navy having a new policy, but rather because DHS (a recently created Department) had implemented rules that basically said "nobody gets flight training unless (fill in blank with list of requirements"

4. My memory, a bit faulty, was that we'd just stopped doing it. For some reason, I had thought that when Rummy kept pulling US folks out of Saudi and moving some home and some to Qatar and Kuwait, there was also a reduction in Saudi student input on this side but apparently that memory wasn't correct.
The accessions only stopped for a while (and I don't think it was stopped for more than a couple of years).

5. I am about 75% sure that the following is correct: this most recent student (who did the shooting) was suposed to get the (fairly cheap) initial USN Nav/WSO training at Pensacola (Training Wing 6) and then proceed to a USAF training base to get WSO training for F-15's - which fits with the recent F-15 Strike Eagle variant the Saudis procured. (This tidbit from a different source)

FWIW, from sometime in the 90's unitl the late 00's or early 10's, the USN and USAF had a multi service training deal going on for WSO's / NAVs / NFOs at TRAWING 6. This included a variety of NATO and other foreign students. (It was driven by both BRAC and Goldwater Nichols direction...) It appears that the use of Pensacola as entry point remains a viable path for some of the foreign aviation. students.

[Airbubba]

An update from Reuters, are only the Saudis doing the uh, 'safety stand-down'? :confused::

December 10, 2019 / 2:45 PM Exclusive: Nearly 175 Saudi military aviation students grounded in U.S. after base shootingWASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nearly 175 Saudi Arabian military aviation students have been grounded as part of a “safety stand-down” after a Saudi Air Force lieutenant shot and killed three people last week at a U.S. Navy base in Florida, U.S. officials told Reuters on Tuesday.

“A safety stand-down and operational pause commenced Monday for Saudi Arabian aviation students,” Lieutenant Andriana Genualdi, a Navy spokeswoman, said.

She said the grounding included three different military facilities, including Naval Air Station Pensacola, Naval Air Station Whiting Field and Naval Air Station Mayport in Florida.

[Airbubba]

Should our warfighters be allowed to be carry weapons?

NAS Pensacola shooting leads Navy instructor pilots to tell top brass: 'Arm us'

Published 41 mins ago Last Update 10 mins ago

EXCLUSIVE (Fox News) -- A group of U.S. Navy (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/military/navy) instructor pilots asked top military brass for permission to arm themselves in the wake of the shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Fla., (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/southeast/florida) where a Saudi military pilot gunned down three American sailors and wounded eight others.

One of the shooting victims was the captain of the U.S. Naval Academy rifle team, an “excellent marksman,” according to his brother.“It’s so stupid that on a military base, the shooter was allowed to roam free for so long,” according to one instructor pilot. “In a gun fight, that’s an eternity.” The pilot, like others interviewed by Fox News, did not want his name used because he was not authorized to speak with the media.

One of the pilots said Navy brass denied their request to arm themselves on base.

Two pilots said the Saudi shooter had 10 minutes to carry out his deadly assault on defenseless Navy sailors at the “API” -- aviation pre-flight indoctrination -- building. The Naval Aviation Safety school is also located in the building.The instructor pilots said the incentive to arm was obvious. “We need to protect not just the pilots, but our aircraft that are worth millions.”

One pilot called base security at NAS Pensacola and other Navy bases “mall cops,” because protection on the base has been outsourced to private security and many were “fat and out of shape.”

“I have zero confidence the guy I show my ID card to at the gate could save me,” one pilot added. Fox News spoke to three Navy instructor pilots Tuesday.

It’s an opinion shared by many across the military, including the U.S. Army; more than a dozen soldiers and an unborn child were gunned down at Fort Hood in 2009.

“We trust 18-year-old privates in combat with grenades, anti-tank missiles, rifles and machine guns, but we let service members get slaughtered because we don’t trust anyone to be armed back here in the United States,” a senior U.S. Army officer told Fox News.

“Why are we cowering in our offices, it’s insane,” the officer added.The first responders to the shooting at the military base were cops off base, not members of the military, which the instructor pilots found insulting.

The gunman, Saudi Arabian Air Force 2nd Lt. Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani, was shot and killed by a deputy from the Escambia County Sheriff's Office.

The U.S. Marine Corps for years has provided armed Marines known as “Guardian Angels” to watch over training at The Basic School for newly minted Marine officers in Quantico, Va., outside the nation’s capital. The Guardian Angels have watched over the young officers during live-fire training and were ready to respond. Some service members asked for a similar program for the Navy, even for flight school.

“Our message is simple: arm us,” one pilot said. “We don’t want to count on cops or gate guards to save us in a crisis.”

There was no immediate comment from the U.S. Navy about reversing the policy when Fox News asked.

The Saudi pilot was training to be a naval flight officer, a “backseater” in military jargon, not a pilot, one of the instructor pilots told Fox News.

The family of one of the three victims, Ensign Joshua Kaleb Watson, 23, who had graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy this past May, urged lawmakers and military officers to allow service members to protect themselves on base during an appearance Tuesday morning on “Fox and Friends.”Watson captained the 2018-2019 U.S. Naval Academy rifle team, according to the Naval Academy Athletic Department.

“He was well qualified to have a firearm and defend himself. If we are going to ask these young men and women to stand watch for our country, they need the opportunity to defend themselves. This isn’t the first time this happened and if we don’t change something, then it won’t be the last,” said Adam Watson, Joshua’s brother. “My brother was an excellent marksman. If my brother had not had that right stripped from him, this would be a different conversation.”

Joshua’s mother, Sheila, agreed.

“He was my baby. It hurts me. It doesn’t really anger me as much as it hurts me. My baby was standing watch and he lost his life because he wasn’t armed,” she said.

Joshua’s father, Benjamin, described his son’s heroism.

“We know that he was shot at least five times and then somehow found the strength, bleeding profusely to make it out the door to tell first responders. They came up to him and with basically his last breath, summoned his courage to give an accurate description of the shooter and his location so they could do their duty.”

[Two's in]

In the few armed conflicts I've been invited to, I've always thought to myself;

"You know what would make this place a lot safer? More people running around with weapons".

[gums]

Salute!

Don't know about many of you folks, but the safest place I ever served without worrying about a Jihadist was in South Vietnam during the sixties. Oh yeah, maybe some Charlie with a death wish, but they were not Muslims.

Being an Air Commando, we "carried", unlike the F-100 troops at our base or a few other folks when we deployed to Pleiku. Almost everybody "carried" almost everywhere. So some nut that started shooting would have had maybe two shots before his head was blown off.

The Fort Hood episode should have been a warning. I would take my chances with everybody being armed and one whack job around, than the whack job being the only one with a pistol. I am not all that sure that the perp bought the pistol by himself, as the background check is required for the pistol. OTOH, he could have bought an AR-15 or shotgun at a local store and walked out in 10 minutes. Meanwhile....

Our local offices in the Panhandle are all flying flags at half mast. The hero Ensign that warned everyone, then died was a local troop who dreamed of flying neat jets like I did almost 60 years ago, when I took my physical at Pensacola Naval Air Station to get an Annapolis admission. We are all mourning.
++++++++++++++++++++=
I flew with and trained many folks from all over in the A-37 and then in the Viper. I flew with the only IAF group and Paki group to check out in the Viper at Hill. Had one Egytian colonel in my back seat for orientation ( family model Viper), but was getting out and never flew with any of them. As others have said, except for those Paki folks, most of the non-NATO pilots had "connections". In fact, our Paki pilots told many war stories about checking out "priveleged" pilots from the fiefdoms in the Mideast. Their opinion of them was low. They constantly reminded us that they were Muslims, but not Arabs. Take that any way you wish. Politics never came up.

Gums sends...

[BEagle]

Hi gums, good to hear from you again!

Even though it's abundantly clear that you meant no offense, unfortunately the term 'Paki' is now considered to be offensive by simpering political correcto snowflakes over here. 'Pak AF' would probably be OK though.

[Airbubba]

Even though it's abundantly clear that you meant no offense, unfortunately the term 'Paki' is now considered to be offensive by simpering political correcto snowflakes over here.

Yep, you gotta stay up to date on this stuff. Folks from ANC who refer to themselves as Eskimos are warned that this term may be considered pejorative across the border in Canada.

From the University of Alaska at Fairbanks Alaska Native Language Center:

Although the name "Eskimo" is commonly used in Alaska to refer to all Inuit and Yupik people of the world, this name is considered derogatory in many other places because it was given by non-Inuit people and was said to mean "eater of raw meat."

https://www.uaf.edu/anlc/resources/inuit_or_eskimo.php

[peter we]

Hi gums, good to hear from you again!

Even though it's abundantly clear that you meant no offense, unfortunately the term 'Paki' is now considered to be offensive by simpering political correcto snowflakes over here. 'Pak AF' would probably be OK though.
Paki means 'Pure', as a Pakistani man explained to me, its not a insult or offensive.

[Lonewolf_50]

Paki means 'Pure', as a Pakistani man explained to me, its not a insult or offensive. Will file that in the "things I learned today" folder. Thanks.
Capt. Timothy Kinsella, the Pensacola base commander, said there were about 200 foreign nationals currently training at the base. Not a surprise, as I noted above there's been a body of international flight students on Pensacola for a long, long time.

Another bit from media - served with least a grain, or even a pinch, of salt.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/12/07/despite-mortal-wounds-heroic-naval-academy-grad-helped-stop-gunman-reports.html?ESRC=navy-a_191211.nl
Although terrorism has not been officially established as a motive for the shootings, the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors jihadist postings and activity, cited a Twitter account with a name matching Alshamrani's that included anti-American diatribes.
"I'm not against you for just being American," the posts said, according to SITE. "I don't hate you because your freedoms, I hate you because every day you supporting, funding and committing crimes not only against Muslims but also humanity." How someone links that posting to a particular individual, reliably, I'll leave to cyber sleuths.
Parroting the complaints of garden-variety useful idiots; shows no original thought, and borders one being a meme.

[yaffle]

When I was at school 40+ years ago I knew that none of my friends liked being called Paki so it predates both 'political correctness' and 'snowflake'. I don't think it's a case of being 'woke' more being sensitive to others. Or maybe not using such a broad sweep as banter. If I'm going to take the piss it will be because of your personal faults not an accident of your birthplace.
Like calling someone who can't understand this 'boomer'.
Ok boomer?

[BEagle]

Gee Dubya inadvertently upset a number of Pakistanis back in 2002: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jan/09/usa.matthewengel

Back in the 1970s after some race riot incident, the newsreader announced that "A pack of Asian youths had been involved" - a most unfortunate collective noun. Later news broadcasts referred instead to "A number […]".

[[email protected]]

How does the 'hunting licence loophole' allow someone to buy a Glock FFS - who goes hunting with a Glock?

More guns is definitely the answer :ugh: the ensuing gunfight would look like a comedy Western barfight but with hundreds of casualties................

[SASless]

You don't get out much anymore do you, Crab?

In this particular event....a Watch Standers with a firearm would have both help prevent it from happening at all as well as putting an immediate end to it.

Perhaps we do a better job of firearms training in our forces than does the RAF.

You may have seen reference to NCIS in news reports....the Navy's equivalent to the FBI (but with higher standards as of late)....at our HQ in Suitland Maryland....we had two Special Agents held hostage by a gunman INSIDE the HQ.

Management in a real fit of stupidity required all Agents to store their issued handguns in secure Pistol Lockers during work hours.

In those days....if I had my pants on....I was armed....no matter the policy but then I was not at HQ but out there amongst them!


Thus....dis-armed armed Police were victims of a Kidnapping inside the Head Quarters work spaces.

How do you think it would have turned out had the two and their colleagues been armed?

[DaveUnwin]

SASless I have to ask, let's assume you'd been sent in to stop the shooter, the Saudi was in uniform and you came across two uniformed personnel shooting it out, how would you know who was the bad guy? At least the LEOs knew that the guy with the gun was the baddie, because no one else had one. But if everyone in uniform had a gun and was blazing away, how could you tell who was who? Genuine question.

[tdracer]

SASless I have to ask, let's assume you'd been sent in to stop the shooter, the Saudi was in uniform and you came across two uniformed personnel shooting it out, how would you know who was the bad guy? At least the LEOs knew that the guy with the gun was the baddie, because no one else had one. But if everyone in uniform had a gun and was blazing away, how could you tell who was who? Genuine question.

The 'guards' who initially went to stop the shooter were unarmed. How were they expected to stop an armed shooter when they were unarmed. Genuine question.
An unarmed 'guard' isn't a guard, they are a target.

[SASless]

Dave....lets be real here.

Having been involved with some armed responses in my time....in this case it would. have been pretty easy.

I see one of the Al Brothers in a Saudi Uniform blazing away at two guys in US Uniforms (in this case....unarmed non-Al Brother dudes) a bit of deduction would tell you who the bad guy is.

Now alter the same scenario to include two armed non-Al Brother guys in American Uniforms blazing away at one Al Brother.....again simple deduction would give you an idea....especially when the two begin to tell you what is going on and pointing out the bad guy.

Good Guys do not point or shoot guns at you when you roll up as the armed Plod....they have a countenance on them that clearly indicates they are glad to have you show up.

Gun fights are pretty simple usually....not much confusion as to who are not the good guys.

Ever watch many videos of them on the internet?

If you show up at an active shooter scene....and the shooting is going on.....you do not have to be Sherlock to figure it out.


From experience the bad guy has done one or both of those actions...point...or point and shoot....before dropping his weapon for one reason or another.

[Asturias56]

no point in turning this into a Second Amendment argument - no-one ever changes their minds...................

[T28B]

Posters are invited to heed Asturias56's suggestion.

[RAFEngO74to09]

US Justice Dept Press Conference starting in a few minutes on Fox News in the USA - I'll post link to video when available.

Points so far:

Was an act of terrorism - began social media posts Sep 11.
Acted alone.
21 other RSAF & RSN had posted Jihadi / derogatory US sentiment and ordered by Saudi Arabia back to the Kingdom for conduct unbecoming an officer.
2 x USMC SNCOs outside ran inside and grabbed a fire extinguisher to confront the shooter - subsequently were instrumental in rendering first aid to 8 x wounded until local law enforcement and EMS arrived.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3JcNUKX308

[MPN11]

Thanks. From minute 6:40 to 9:00 has the brief details of action in respect of the other Saudis.

[Lonewolf_50]

January 12, 2020 (https://twitter.com/i/events/1216240691346436096?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email)
More Saudi military trainees to be expelled from US in wake of Pensacola base attack
As first reported by CNN, at least a dozen Saudi servicemen will be expelled from the US after a review following the deadly shooting at an Air Force base in Pensacola, Florida, in December.
Photo via (https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1216162595910144000)@cnnbrk (https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1216162595910144000)

The Twittverse is alive with tidbits on this.
2 x USMC SNCOs outside ran inside and grabbed a fire extinguisher to confront the shooter - subsequently were instrumental in rendering first aid to 8 x wounded until local law enforcement and EMS arrived. Semper Fi. Nice job, Marines.

Of note:
Apple, the company, refuses to assist Justice Dept to get phone data on two phones used by shooter. :mad:

[weemonkey]

The Twittverse is alive with tidbits on this.
Semper Fi. Nice job, Marines.

Of note:
Apple, the company, refuses to assist Justice Dept to get phone data on two phones used by shooter. :mad: To dash unarmed into a gunfight isn't instinctive, but rather a calculated act of supreme bravery and selflessness.

“We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”
Winston Churchill.

[Fonsini]

21 expelled for making pro-jihadi posts on social media including 15 who also had child pornography - a real bunch of charmers.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-sends-home-21-saudis-army-shooting-probe-195624861.html

[Asturias56]

do you have a full list of how many people were expelled from the course over say the last couple of years and why?

[RAFEngO74to09]

Huge developments from Attorney General & FBI Director briefing on US Fox News live now after being able to access data on damaged phones using own resources despite Apple refusing to co-operate - plot went back years - not radicalized while in US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA05goPVhTk

[Airbubba]

Huge developments from Attorney General & FBI Director briefing on US Fox News live now after being able to access data on damaged phones using own resources despite Apple refusing to co-operate - plot went back years - not radicalized while in US:


From earlier in the thread:

Lone wolf, acted alone, no known ties to terrorism, isolated random act of violence etc. are the customary disclaimers in these incidents.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1339x701/nyt_pns_08d0276c437c609462070e0ce6afbb9e24b7c3e1_2a87e5f4bc6 b607f5adf0050b86e7b0f7b6df230.jpg


Some background on the iPhone decryption:

Apple refuses government’s request to unlock Pensacola shooting suspect’s iPhones
Published Tue, Jan 14 20209:05 AM EST
Updated Tue, Jan 14 202012:33 PM EST

Lauren Feiner (https://www.cnbc.com/lauren-feiner/)

Apple continues to refuse Barr’s request that it help find a way for law enforcement to access encrypted devices with a court order, like the one Apple resisted in 2016 (https://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/29/apple-vs-fbi-all-you-need-to-know.html) in the case of a shooter’s iPhone in San Bernardino, California. In that case, the point was dropped when the FBI was able to crack into the phone without Apple’s help, but the incident raised questions about the balance between civil liberties and public safety that have yet to be settled.

“We have always maintained there is no such thing as a backdoor just for the good guys,” Apple said in its latest statement.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-to-unlock-pensacola-shooters-iphones.html

[atakacs]

I find Barr's recurring statements disingenuous. Apple gave them plenty of help (https://thehill.com/policy/technology/478106-apple-rejects-barr-claim-that-company-has-given-no-substantive-assistance). They can not "invent" a backdoor that did/does not exists. I understand there is a big push from law enforcement to get a permanent tap on all smart devices but we are not quite there... yet. Clearly in this (and many other cases), it did not really matter at the end.

[Airbubba]

Another random act of violence at a flight training base?

UPDATED: FBI Now Investigating NAS Corpus Christi Shooting, ‘Arab Male’ Killed by Navy Security ForcesBy: Sam LaGrone and Ben Werner (https://news.usni.org/author/slagrone)

May 21, 2020 8:52 AM • Updated: May 21, 2020 11:42 AM

The FBI is investigating a Thursday shooting at a Texas naval air station, after a Navy security team there killed an “Arab male” who stormed a gate at the base, a U.S. official told USNI News..

NSF responded to an active shooter at NAS Corpus Christi at about 7:15 a.m. EST resulting in the injury to the NSF sailor. The shooter was killed by the NSF forces, the official told USNI News.

“The sailor is in good condition and is expected to be released later today,” the Navy said in a statement.

The base remains on lockdown while an investigation into the shooting commences.

An FBI spokeswoman did not provide additional details when contacted by USNI News.

“All gates on the installation remain closed while first responders process the scene,” according to a statement from the service.
“NCIS, state and local law enforcement are on scene.”

Corpus Christi police said the incident took place at one of the air station’s gates.

Naval Air Station Corpus Christi is home to the four squadrons of Training Air Wing Four, which uses Truax Field on base and outlying airfields. Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and foreign student pilots train at the base.

Naval Air Station Corpus Christi also houses the Corpus Christi Army Depot which serves as the primary maintenance depot for Department of Defense rotary-wing aircraft. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection Service also operates from Naval Air Station Corpus Christi.


https://news.usni.org/2020/05/21/shooting-at-nas-corpus-christi-security-force-member-injured-shooter-neutralized

[Lonewolf_50]

Airbubba, I have some sources on that.
This probably needs its own thread.
NAS Corpus Christi is also where CCAD is housed: there are about 4000 jobs, down from about 6,000 during the 00's/war years.
CCAD is part of what was once called "The Defense Industrial Base"
What is CCAD?
Corpus Christ Army Depot. They overhaul all of the Army's Helicopters: Chinooks, Apaches, Blackhawks, and until a few years ago, OH-58Ds. CCAD used to do Navy SH-60 Sea Hawks after the BRAC shut down NARF Pensacola, but the Navy got tired of the slow turn around time and went elsewhere.
What happened?
Someone tried to run the north gate at about 0615 local time.
Shots fired.
One perp apparently dead, one guard injured, and the FBI is now on this and there is a "second person of interest" ... Whatever that means.
Apparently, one of the perps own multiple properties in the area, all of which are being searched for explosives.
Nothing more at this time.
I'll wait until my Law Enforcement amigos in that part of Texas have a chance to breath out before I even think about asking any more questions.

[Airbubba]

An update from CNN on the Navy Corpus shooting.

Texas Naval base shooter believed to have expressed support for terrorist groups onlineBy Dakin Andone (https://www.cnn.com/profiles/dakin-andone), Barbara Starr (https://www.cnn.com/profiles/barbara-starr-profile), Hollie Silverman (https://www.cnn.com/profiles/hollies-profile) and Josh Campbell (https://www.cnn.com/profiles/josh-campbell), CNN

Updated 10:28 PM ET, Thu May 21, 2020

(CNN)The deceased suspect in Thursday's shooting at Naval Air Station Corpus Christi in Texas was a 20-year-old male named Adam Alsahli of Corpus Christi, according to two law enforcement sources familiar with the ongoing investigation.

Alsahli drove to an entrance at the naval station and shot a security forces member in the chest, hitting the guard in her bulletproof vest and inflicting non-life-threatening injuries, according to one of the sources.

Alsahli then accelerated towards the gate entrance and crashed into a barrier. After exiting the vehicle, he began shooting, and was shot and killed by naval security forces.

Following the suspect's death, law enforcement bomb technicians cleared his body and vehicle, but found no explosive devices, one of the sources said.

A preliminary law enforcement investigation into the shooter has identified him as a US resident who was originally born in Syria, and likely a supporter of Salafi-jihadist ideology, according to one of the sources.

Officials have identified various social media accounts, which initial reports indicate are likely associated with the shooter, the source said. Online postings by these accounts expressed support for ISIS and Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the source said.

For now, federal investigators have not observed any claims of responsibility for the attack on online platforms used by terrorist groups, one of the sources said.

Although investigators have not currently discovered any information indicating Alsahli was inspired by, or connected to, the December 2019 terrorist attack on Naval Air Station Pensacola, one of the sources said this remains a key line of inquiry for investigators, especially due to the recent announcement by the Justice Department that the Pensacola shooter had terrorist ties.

FBI officials said earlier the shooting was terror-related.

Authorities previously said a shooter had been "neutralized," but there may be a second person of interest still at large, FBI Supervisory Senior Resident Agent Leah Greeves said during a short press briefing. The agent did not provide additional information.

FBI is leading the investigation

The base was put on lockdown after security forces responded to reports of an active shooter around 6:15 a.m. CT, according to the Navy.

The FBI is the lead investigative agency, according to a tweet from the bureau's Houston field office (https://twitter.com/FBIHouston/status/1263513274408206338?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedt imeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AFBIHouston%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinech rome&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fbi.gov%2Fcontact-us%2Ffield-offices%2Fhouston).

"All gates on the installation remain closed while first responders process the scene," the Navy said in its statement. "NCIS is en route, and state and local law enforcement are on scene."

Naval Air Station Corpus Christi has been home to Naval pilot training since 1941, according to its website (https://www.cnic.navy.mil/regions/cnrse/installations/nas_corpus_christi.html).


From a LinkedIn profile of someone with the same name as the deceased:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1569x576/adam_a2350c3dd04d13c20605ef8d63a3292fe2174b0d.jpg