View Full Version : El Al LY1747 drawing a B747
Left wing being formed currently. Someone obviously has plenty of time to spare :)
The concept of holding pattern has been revised.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1040x2000/20191103_153149_a0c1f8bd063195dcc8d976dfdb721cc67d70e847.jpg
Its to mark the last flight of a El Al 747 after 48 years of flying them
Googlebug
3rd Nov 2019, 13:58
Environmentally what a waste.
Airbubba
3rd Nov 2019, 15:29
Very nice! :ok:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1218x630/el_al_1747_3c951f79e21ba72e6a6820ab842f66a73d0ac6da.jpg
Bizarre. With passengers?? What a waste of time, fuel, sick bags...although one must appreciate the planning process, considering wind effects...
But, 200 kts ground speed at FL100 with a 747?
Tech Guy
3rd Nov 2019, 18:50
Excellent way to pay respects to a superb aircraft
dixi188
3rd Nov 2019, 18:52
I imagine you just enter all the waypoints and let the aircraft fly it.
200 kts makes the turns not too big.
Less Hair
3rd Nov 2019, 20:33
No waste. They retire it.
MaydayMaydayMayday
4th Nov 2019, 11:16
I imagine you just enter all the waypoints and let the aircraft fly it.
200 kts makes the turns not too big.
That said, I'd be surprised if they were able to use GPS at 10,000ft in the Eastern Med at the moment! Every flight I've done into that region in the last six months has meant having the GPS systems completely jammed.
gearlever
4th Nov 2019, 11:22
That said, I'd be surprised if they were able to use GPS at 10,000ft in the Eastern Med at the moment! Every flight I've done into that region in the last six months has meant having the GPS systems completely jammed.
So what.
ADIRS or how it's called on B747 should be good enough.
BlueVolta
4th Nov 2019, 13:26
Beautiful tribute for an airplane that made history.
The pax must have enjoyed being part of this little sketch in the sky.
It was probably not the most carbon neutral drawing but ELAL had a nice idea.
And I would have loved to be part of such a project, from the ops team who created the points, the crew who inserted them in the FMS and monitored the flight.
N707ZS
4th Nov 2019, 13:29
How long did it take? I tried replaying the flight and it came up with a sill time of just under 2 hours.
Great tribute!
Some on here have no soul!
How long did it take? I tried replaying the flight and it came up with a sill time of just under 2 hours.
I came up withe the same figure, started from the pointy end at 12:22 UTC and left the pointy end at 14:09 UTC.
Espada III
4th Nov 2019, 15:22
Think the total flight time was four hours FCO - TLV.
Norway West
4th Nov 2019, 16:38
Personally I think ELAL and its pilots did a good job/show here, and a also fine gesture to the 747. Thumbs up!
DaveReidUK
4th Nov 2019, 17:09
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/512x497/el_al_747_trace_0a3e62d461c044d0ad62e5ff2fb8e8df8687ee32.jpg
Wing sweep is all wrong. :O
physicus
5th Nov 2019, 12:51
This is neat, if it was really done... What's ADS-B coverage at 10'000ft out in the middle of the mediterranean like? It isn't, that's what it is like... They must have supplied the track data to FR24 after the fact. Or just plain made it up in that case... who knows.
sandos
5th Nov 2019, 13:38
This is neat, if it was really done... What's ADS-B coverage at 10'000ft out in the middle of the mediterranean like? It isn't, that's what it is like... They must have supplied the track data to FR24 after the fact. Or just plain made it up in that case... who knows.
Distance to horizon if you are at 10000 ft is about 122 miles. Seems to be less than that to cyprus in this case, so with a nicely placed receiver there (think mountain+tower) it should be no problem. Also I think theyve started with limited satellite based ADS-B sometimes.
DaveReidUK
5th Nov 2019, 14:44
They must have supplied the track data to FR24 after the fact. Or just plain made it up in that case... who knows.
It was live on FR24, you could watch it in real-time.
standbykid
5th Nov 2019, 14:52
For the uninitiated, how the Hell can this be done with such accuracy? Can it be loaded into the FMC?
Excellent job BTW.
physicus
5th Nov 2019, 16:04
I suspect they might have flown an FR24 receiver on board with a realtime internet link through onboard wifi. I've done that before. The data is not present in another ADS-B network which has very good coverage in this area. I'm fairly certain they would have gone through the effort to make sure that path is visible if it has been flown and not left that to chance! Could even be that they bought the data for FR24 through aireon or another satellite based provider.
DaveReidUK
5th Nov 2019, 16:17
For the uninitiated, how the Hell can this be done with such accuracy? Can it be loaded into the FMC?
It's just a series of straight lines and curves - watch aircraft in the hold at any major airport on the flight trackers and you'll see that those are flown just as accurately by the FMS.
foxcharliep2
5th Nov 2019, 16:26
Apart from the technicalities - Having spent the last 15 years on the 744 before I retired 10 yrs ago I can only say hats off - well done !
jimtun
5th Nov 2019, 20:22
Its really a cool piece of Art , and great for any of us who were able to watch it being created in real time .
By doing it at 10,000" its in a quiet airspace , and the track of the aircraft is presented in a different colour to the higher cruise level colour , and then of course the shape stands out even more.
Wind isnt a factor , as coordinates of every turn are typed into flight plan Id say , and push the button ...........
Lake1952
6th Nov 2019, 14:09
I would really enjoy hearing how they pulled this off logistically (corporate permission, ATC etc.) and technically. It's not like they could erase any mistakes.
If anyone has any LY contacts that can add to the back story...
physicus
6th Nov 2019, 14:38
You can file any flight plan you wish, as often demonstrated in the US by certification flights "painting" logos and letters into flight tracking paths. Perhaps even more impressively, NASA's SOFIA modded 747 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_Observatory_for_Infrared_Astronomy) is always flying paths specifically geared towards observing specific targets on the sky and flies oddly shaped flight paths for that reason, both in the US and over the pacific, as well as when operating out of NZ for the southern deployment missions over the south pacific, tasman sea, and all the way down to Antarctica on occasion.
sdelarminat
6th Nov 2019, 15:24
Nice, they drew an A340!
DaveReidUK
6th Nov 2019, 15:57
I would really enjoy hearing how they pulled this off logistically (corporate permission, ATC etc.) and technically. It's not like they could erase any mistakes.
See above for a discussion on the technical aspects.
As for the other prerequisites, basically all that was needed was a switched-on PR department (well OK, not many airlines nowadays can say that of theirs). The story made the media in many parts of the world, so El Al will be feeling pretty pleased with themselves.
As for ATC, I suspect that FL100 over that part of the Med may be uncontrolled airspace - whether or not that's the case, the important part would be making sure that any potentially conflicting traffic didn't mess up the picture. :O
Seat4A
7th Nov 2019, 02:20
I would really enjoy hearing how they pulled this off logistically (corporate permission, ATC etc.) and technically. It's not like they could erase any mistakes.
If anyone has any LY contacts that can add to the back story...
Seems it was well-planned. Scroll down to the section "Drawing a Boeing 747 in the sky".
https://samchui.com/2019/11/04/el-al-farewell-b747-by-drawing-special-747-plane-in-the-sky/#.XcAxAUUzbOQ
From the link
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/772x621/1ply_a3068c1013ae4fd117a4f38f8f282f6949469a88.png
Flight Alloy
7th Nov 2019, 04:18
A cool marketing exercise no doubt, but how was this legal: in the piece the journalist/blogger talks about the flight being open cockpit, him seemingly in the jumpseat through most of the flight, with other passengers visiting the cockpit in flight freely, and then a massive food cart with drinks right up against the pedestal (you know that Coke is just itching to get inside the FMS at the slightest hint of turbulence) ? After the outcry of the Chinese pilot (which I understand is of a different magnitude seeing as the pax was seated at the controls), but how is this not sanctioned too? Do EL Al just make their own rules? I thought cockpit sterility was a fairly unbreakable covenant at any respectable airline. I certainly wouldn't wan't this configuration flying over any populated areas...
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/889x667/elal_farewell_b747_ly1747_16_resize_93608227efcf8a6771fa347d 7ab0c384d89ae212.jpg
Capt Fathom
7th Nov 2019, 05:03
and then a massive food cart with drinks right up against the pedestal
That massive food cart is a food tray sitting on Mr. Chui's lap!!
You don't think perhaps Israeli Security would have vetted all the passengers and crew for this special event!
I wouldn't be messing with them!
Espada III
7th Nov 2019, 06:21
If Israeli Civil Aviation Authority permits passengers in the cockpit in airspace not regulated by another CAA that forbids it, then why not? I trust Israeli security and if you have an israeli ID card you can be checked very very quickly.
An American AME friend was allowed to jumpseatin the cockpit from SFO to MUC last week but not allowed to do the same into the UK on his way home as our CAA forbids that despite the FAA permitting it.
DaveReidUK
7th Nov 2019, 06:32
ZIZkMKNvtrY
Subsequent part(s) not yet posted.
Flight Alloy
7th Nov 2019, 06:50
That massive food cart is a food tray sitting on Mr. Chui's lap!!
You don't think perhaps Israeli Security would have vetted all the passengers and crew for this special event!
I wouldn't be messing with them!
Even worse as far as stability is concerned. Seeing that the seats were available to El Al frequent flyers for a fairly low number of miles, and as far as I know joining the program requires no background check. I doubt Mossad/ElAl sec vetted foreign members of their frequent flyer program for redeeming for a seat on this flight.
I thought cockpit sterility and the need for a clear and calm cockpit was one of the aegises of safe flight? Or are the standards of safety merely constituted my the CAA that happens to control a certain patch of sky? I guess if a pay-to-play FAA or any other CAA authorizes something as compliant, it must be safe?
Especially in today's world of undercutting safety for profit, and the known risk of liquids near the pedestal and uncertified personnel in the cockpit, you choose to excuse this incident? That's exactly the kind of complacency that brought us to this state!
TheBat
7th Nov 2019, 10:24
Wow... Impressed by the effort, really.
But again, unless you were diretly involved, I dare to say that you are falling into the same trap. They didn't do this, they didn't do that etc etc.
And I really wish I had seen this sensitiveness, critisism and elaboration on real safety incidents like the (not-so)Smartwings incident where they flew a 737 all over almost half of Europe on one engine (and no distress call), allegedly landed with less than the legal fuel quanity, full of innocent passengers that had no idea of what was going on.
I really do not wish to spend more time discussing a can of coke in a tray, so back to the subject before our posts get deleted:
Kudos to El-Al for this. Brilliant idea! Perfect farewell to perhaps the most beautiful flying machine ever IMHO.
Personally, I wish I was a passenger on that flight even if I had to go through tough security checks (known or not-known to me). I am positive that everyone involved (including the air marshals I believe) was carefully prepared and briefed about every aspect of it.
Flight Alloy
7th Nov 2019, 12:33
Wow... Impressed by the effort, really.
But again, unless you were diretly involved, I dare to say that you are falling into the same trap. They didn't do this, they didn't do that etc etc.
And I really wish I had seen this sensitiveness, critisism and elaboration on real safety incidents like the (not-so)Smartwings incident where they flew a 737 all over almost half of Europe on one engine (and no distress call), allegedly landed with less than the legal fuel quanity, full of innocent passengers that had no idea of what was going on.
I really do not wish to spend more time discussing a can of coke in a tray, so back to the subject before our posts get deleted:
Kudos to El-Al for this. Brilliant idea! Perfect farewell to perhaps the most beautiful flying machine ever IMHO.
Personally, I wish I was a passenger on that flight even if I had to go through tough security checks (known or not-known to me). I am positive that everyone involved (including the air marshals I believe) was carefully prepared and briefed about every aspect of it.
Agree to disagree. I concur with your idea that more serious incidents exist, and that 'this' one is not necessarily notable, so I desist in any further claims. It just irks me that some people think that governments, 'agencies' etc. have everything under control and all is following some great, carefully developed plan (like shall we say the TSA, meticulous security with 100% success rate, or just lucky no one has died yet) . From my experience it usually is not, people are often negligent, incompetent, careless, stupid, groups have badly structured policy, the fact that anything functions at all is sometimes a miracle. I hope we can just agree that our world functions more by luck and the inherent robustness of our system, than some careful planning by ourselves. (Be it global warming we are causing but still requires great 'momentum' to fully upturn, or the state of our (social) societies...).
foxcharliep2
7th Nov 2019, 14:20
I hope we can just agree that our world functions more by luck and the inherent robustness of our system, than some careful planning by ourselves. (Be it global warming we are causing but still requires great 'momentum' to fully upturn, or the state of our (social) societies...).
Boy, do I agree that my luck retired me quite robustly after careful planning from that beautiful 744 bird years ago so I didn't have to share a beer during a lay-over with someone as serious etc bla bla as you ...
Again - well done by El-Al !
Seat4A
7th Nov 2019, 15:46
Big picture: It was brilliant marketing and a lot of fun based on the excitement in the media and having watched video. (I'll assume Sam Chui will soon post Part 2 with the LY 1747 flight and drawing ).
Other examples: A quick search will lead you to the final EVA 747 flight. Not as fancy, but nicely done.
As for passionate fliers and members of airline FFPs getting first access, I read the UA FlyerTalk thread on their final 747 flight SFO-HNL 2 years ago. Like El Al, party for staff and passengers at the gate, party onboard, also with custom menus and people in Hawaiian-themed clothing. And Oscar.
Regardless of security matters - which we can all assume were handled properly by all of them for their final 747 flights, it gave these airlines opportunities to allow their passionate customers, frequent fliers, staff and former employees to enjoy something. The added media coverage, whether by Sam or an individual onboard, really gives positive value to airlines and an industry more often on the receiving end of criticism (even if deserved).
While I am not a fan of the bloggers or many of Sam's videos, he has also showcased unique routes, and small regional airlines, some with interesting geographical challenges.
SteveHobson
7th Nov 2019, 17:56
I consider those that have been carping on about waste of fuel and increased emissions have 'lost the plot'.
This is a beautiful aerial work of art and a tribute to a fine old lady, the B 747 as she nears the end of her life.
Let's live a little, and enjoy and applaud someone's creativity, instead of mouthing 'politically correct' slogans.
Remember, the earth has been warming since the last Ice Age !
And El Al's B747 final bow out, has contributed an unmeasurably small iota, when one considers the millions of
flight miles flown every day.
tdracer
7th Nov 2019, 18:20
Flight Alloy, all I can say is you would have had an absolute fit on most of the flight testing flights I was on. Flight deck door blocked open for the entire flight, nobody went through security before boarding, food and drinks on the flight deck (granted, only water to drink if it was a customer aircraft), etc...
Airbubba
7th Nov 2019, 19:44
An American AME friend was allowed to jumpseatin the cockpit from SFO to MUC last week but not allowed to do the same into the UK on his way home as our CAA forbids that despite the FAA permitting it.
AME as in Aviation Medical Examiner? Are you sure?
DaveReidUK
7th Nov 2019, 20:00
AME as in Aviation Medical Examiner? Are you sure?
Aircraft_Maintenance_Engineer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Maintenance_Engineer)
Airbubba
7th Nov 2019, 20:16
Aircraft_Maintenance_Engineer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Maintenance_Engineer)
Thanks Dave. :ok:
dixi188
8th Nov 2019, 11:52
LAME = Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, if not licensed then Fitter or Mechanic. In the USA a licensed engineer is an "A & P Mechanic.
AME = Aviation Medical Examiner.
That's how I've always known it.
DaveReidUK
8th Nov 2019, 15:01
An American AME friend was allowed to jumpseat in the cockpit from SFO to MUC last week
AME = Aviation Medical Examiner.
Handy, I suppose, in case of the sudden unexplained death of one of the pilots ...
Longtimer
8th Nov 2019, 22:52
Here is what an AME is etc. in Canada.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/licensing-aircraft-maintenance-engineers/obtaining-licence.html
dixi188
9th Nov 2019, 11:52
The aviation world is full of so many acronyms that they are bound to overlap.
Once tried to operate a flight without using acronyms. We didn't get far with the before start checklist before we gave up.
Seat4A
9th Nov 2019, 17:08
Part 2 is up with the return flight, LY 1747
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAJq8YpIUKc
Part 2 is up with the return flight, LY 1747
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAJq8YpIUKc
Have watched a few of Sam's video's. He had some very interesting titles, so I clicked.... Then spent 80% of the time watching Sam film himself rather than the aircraft/scenery etc. Interesting variety of flights certainly, but I tune in for the aviation not to watch Sam's mug on selfie cam.
Seat4A
9th Nov 2019, 21:42
Have watched a few of Sam's video's. He had some very interesting titles, so I clicked.... Then spent 80% of the time watching Sam film himself rather than the aircraft/scenery etc. Interesting variety of flights certainly, but I tune in for the aviation not to watch Sam's mug on selfie cam.
Indeed, thus why I wrote above, in part:
Big picture: It was brilliant marketing and a lot of fun based on the excitement in the media and having watched video.
.......
Regardless of security matters - which we can all assume were handled properly by all of them for their final 747 flights, it gave these airlines opportunities to allow their passionate customers, frequent fliers, staff and former employees to enjoy something. The added media coverage, whether by Sam or an individual onboard, really gives positive value to airlines and an industry more often on the receiving end of criticism (even if deserved).
While I am not a fan of the bloggers or many of Sam's videos, he has also showcased unique routes, and small regional airlines, some with interesting geographical challenges.
A most interesting video is one he did of NOLINOR B737-200 Combi equipped with Gravel Kit. Little of him in that video but a lot of insights from the crew. Worth the watch. While many of us much prefer more aviation, less blogger, there is far worse out there that shouldn't even qualify as a video, let alone informative.
The LY 747 Drawing event is interesting from both the technical and consumer viewpoints, and to to some here as well.
For the uninitiated, how the Hell can this be done with such accuracy? Can it be loaded into the FMC?
Excellent job BTW.
Agree. The second video may provide you with some answers.