Spanish PPL

[trouser2000]

Hi all

Just exploring options for a PPL at this time and Spain seems to be good given the weather would mean flying far more often than in the UK to get the PPL done over weeks rather than months.

Does anyone have experience lately with FIS (Fly In Spain) - I know some complained they couldn't contact them
Aerodynamics Malaga - any experiences with these? Not as much in the forums about them.

Any info anyone has regarding doing a PPL this way would be appreciated.

Regards
Andy

[Genghis the Engineer]

I really wouldn't make any plans involving a Brit doing a PPL overseas until we know where the UK sits within or without EASA post Brexit. You might obtain a licence you can't use at home, you might get a licence that is as good (on paper) as one obtained in Britain.

However I should say - a lot is quite different about flying in Spain (weather, ATC, security regulations, flight planning data...), and I have heard tales of Spanish trained and qualified pilots proving to be very poor - I certainly had one such as a student who I virtually had to start from scratch with, the quality of instruction had been so poor. So it's a reasonable assumption that even if you do get a quick, cheap, PPL in Spain - you'll be spending considerable quality time with an instructor in the UK before it's likely you'll be able to fly any British based club or syndicate aeroplane. Plus, the pound is relatively weak against the Euro, so the cost savings won't be much. I doubt in the end you'll have saved anything much.

I would tend to encourage you to make the time, and look at good local flying schools near to your home.

G

[trouser2000]

I really wouldn't make any plans involving a Brit doing a PPL overseas until we know where the UK sits within or without EASA post Brexit. You might obtain a licence you can't use at home, you might get a licence that is as good (on paper) as one obtained in Britain.

However I should say - a lot is quite different about flying in Spain (weather, ATC, security regulations, flight planning data...), and I have heard tales of Spanish trained and qualified pilots proving to be very poor - I certainly had one such as a student who I virtually had to start from scratch with, the quality of instruction had been so poor. So it's a reasonable assumption that even if you do get a quick, cheap, PPL in Spain - you'll be spending considerable quality time with an instructor in the UK before it's likely you'll be able to fly any British based club or syndicate aeroplane. Plus, the pound is relatively weak against the Euro, so the cost savings won't be much. I doubt in the end you'll have saved anything much.

I would tend to encourage you to make the time, and look at good local flying schools near to your home.

G
Thanks, appreciate you taking the time.

Yes I agree regarding Brexit. I am not planning on doing so until the late 2019 / start of 2020 so hopefully things will be clearer then.

In regards to the PPL, I do appreciate those comments. This is not a decision which is being made to do the PPL on the cheap, it is more a time issue. Given the weather in the UK during this period I am realistically going to be looking at it taking far longer to get the PPL. My plan is to do the PPL in Spain and then on my return to the UK do a good few hours with an instructor over here in order to brush up on skills applicable to the UK weather, aerodromes etc.

Regards
Andy

[Piper.Classique]

Second everything GTE had said and have a question for you. Are you choosing Spain for distance from home/work/ second home? If so ignore the rest of this...
I'm wondering if you might do better in another European country? One with a similar climate to Spain, for fewer weather delays. Plenty of French clubs have instructors who speak good enough English for the flying part of the licence, and I expect in other countries too. The weather in Poland is consistent in the summer, and it's cheaper than Spain. I've had a lot of fun flying there, too. I don't speak Polish...

[trouser2000]

Second everything GTE had said and have a question for you. Are you choosing Spain for distance from home/work/ second home? If so ignore the rest of this...
I'm wondering if you might do better in another European country? One with a similar climate to Spain, for fewer weather delays. Plenty of French clubs have instructors who speak good enough English for the flying part of the licence, and I expect in other countries too. The weather in Poland is consistent in the summer, and it's cheaper than Spain. I've had a lot of fun flying there, too. I don't speak Polish...

In all honestly I was looking at Spain as in January I assumed that would have the best weather out of the likes of Poland, France etc.

I was planning on going over for 4 or 5 weeks to complete the PPL and then return home and do some further training in the UK. Work isn't an issue as I am self employed.

The other option was Florida although it is quite a bit further and also a few more hoops to jump through such as converting licences etc.

Of course any suggestions you may have worth me looking at I am more than happy to listen to.

Regards
Andy

[Piper.Classique]

Ah. January. Not Poland, then. South of France. Try Avignon, perhaps. I only know about the microlight club by the weather is usually decent.

[Jan Olieslagers]

I too thought of Central Europe / ex-socialist countries. Cannot speak for the weather in Poland - it is a big country, and there must be a world of difference between sea-bound Pomerania and mountainous Silesia... I do remember however that in Eger, Hungary, training flights were mostly in early morning or near sunset - too windy at other times. Perhaps only in certain seasons, though. Lots of research/inquiry to be done! But at least you will find the cost of staying/living more bearable in Hungary than in Spain.

[Duchess_Driver]

Be careful about Spain for the weather - certainly Leon, Huesca and Lleida (Northern) are fogged or blown out with regularity during the winter months. Mid/Southern Spain is better.

Whilst there is a degree of truth in what Genghis says about quality of instruction that is not to say that all instruction is not to U.K. standards. Some are actually very good.

The mentality here is, as has been said, different- often when questioned about why something is like that the response is “because that’s the way it’s always been.” Don’t expect things to work like they do in the U.K.

good luck

[flaingmick]

I can only recommend Spanish (= andalusian) flight schools.

In Jerez there is FIS Fly-In-Spain: I have been revalidating my UK PPL with them repeatedly and everything was professional and on time.

I have been also flying with Aerodynamics Malaga from Axarquia close to Malaga: no complains, everything nice, on time and well organized.

Honestly, I do not understand why the British favour UK schools, the Germans believe in German schools and so on. It is a single European regulation and flying is the same everywhere - except for some minor differences between the countries that are easy to learn....

[trouser2000]

Thanks everyone I appreciate the input.
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[Duchess_Driver]

Honestly, I do not understand why the British favour UK schools, the Germans believe in German schools and so on. It is a single European regulation and flying is the same everywhere - except for some minor differences between the countries that are easy to

It may be a single set or “baseline” regulations - but the actuality is that it’s not the same. There are some major differences in the way those laws are interpreted and implemented and with legislative and operational attitudes. Standards, as has been said above do differ from one area to another and what is an acceptable level of performance or knowledge in one country may not be in another.

[Double Back]

In Reus is a very professional flight school, a few Years ago a friend of mine did a 6 weeks course for his FI (Flight Instructor) rating. He was impressed with the quality and mind You this guy already was an experienced airline pilot. Just wanted his FI on GA stuff.
I fly myself here ( btn Valencia and Alicante) occasionally whenever around. Prices are steeper than my own flying club in NL. Like 220 euros for a well used C172,. The Garmin 1000 equipped one costs even as much as 270€
But at least the flying is WAY more relaxing as it in NL. Vastly less airspace robbed for airliners and mil A/C. From 500'to FL 150, no big deal here at many areas.
After T/O I can switch off my radios, only to switch them on before landing, 1,5 hrs later.
The negative side of this, the nearest landing spot from any given location can be easily anything like 30-40 NM, it is not "littered" with flying sites like the UK....

The weather indeed is a nice factor, the last 5 weeks I am here, I could have flown nearly ALL the days. Low winds good vis, and the likes. Plus average daytime temps around 25 C. Not bad for living here in spring and autumn when the northerly weather tends to be awful, only not for a meteorologist...

[trouser2000]

Appreciate the advice everyone

[Jan Olieslagers]

A late reaction, for what it is worth: I just came across this (German?) organisation who claim 16 days for completing the license, flying from Mallorca. Don't be put off, most Germans have fair English, or better. At a second look, however, I wonder if they do ultralights rather than PPL.

https://www.airacademy.de/flugschule/flugplatz-dahlemer-binz/

[ChickenHouse]

A late reactio, for what it is worth: I just came across this (German?) organisation who claim 16 days for completing the license, flying from Mallorca. Don't be put off, most Germans have fair English, or better. At a second look, however, I wonder if they do ultralights rather than PPL.

https://www.airacademy.de/flugschule/flugplatz-dahlemer-binz/
That is indeed German National Microlight license and the results of these trainings ...

[Piper.Classique]

It's going to have to wait a bit anyway, with Spain going into Coronavirus lockdown.

[Double Back]

I don't believe in these crash courses. Only if followed up by an equivalent type of flying, as only professional/military courses could offer. These courses have a controlled environment, like normally in Mallorca good weather. All thinking has been done for You.
Normally one would follow this course and head home, licensed. There suddenly You are on Ur own, having to decide Yrself about nearly all things. The environment like weather, airspace and procedures will probably way off like in Mallorca.

Part of a learning process is time needed to soak in. Reflect on what You have learned. Talking with other students, riding backseat (like in a C172) and see how others perform w/o having to perform Yrself.
2 Training details a day would be about maximum possible. More and You don't pick up anything anymore.

I think that for a PPL it is wise to take time, let's say a Year. At least in the latitudes where the polar fronts rage, one should be trained during a Year to meet, see, recognize and learn how to cope with the elements they bring with them with different temperatures.

I read somewhere that US trained mil pilots who are (were?) dispatched to the EU regions, flew something like half a Year under training/heavy supervision. Worlds apart from AZ.

In PPRUNE I read about too many accidents with inexperienced people flying too complex aircraft. Then You read about their total experience....shivers. Like one guy who crashed with HIS(!!) P51 for no apparent reason, if I remember correctly, 1,5 Yrs after starting learning to fly.

[Maoraigh1]

"I don't believe in these crash courses. Only if followed up by an equivalent type of flying, as only professional/military courses could offer. These courses have a controlled environment, like normally in Mallorca good weather. All thinking has been done for You.
Normally one would follow this course and head home, licensed. There suddenly You are on Ur own, having to decide Yrself about nearly all things. The environment like weather, airspace and procedures will probably way off like in Mallorca"
If you're renting, you'll have an initial UK check-out flight, and help for each subsequent flight - a firm NO if the FBO thinks the weather is too taxing for you. And another checkout if you've lost currency.

[Double Back]

A simple checkout would not suffice, It might be happening with comparable WX conditions but what if a month later the renter flies into WX conditions he is not used to? Yes the rookie renter could be monitored for his departure but who follows him/her during a day trip with multiple landings?
I rented a lot worldwide because my work brought me there, so whenever I could I rented a plane. After a checkout though, and I have 5.500 GA hours with some 80 types, so the flying did not worry me and could concentrate on other things like geography or different procedures.
Kenya was my favorite to fly, at that time no GPS driven color screens. Really "out of Africa" style of flying, reading a worn out road map for directions. Btw, in Kenya one needed a local license as well. Many times I learned from the local instructors, special things one never reads in a book. Like what You were supposed to do if landing at or near a lodge....STAY in the plane till the jeep comes along. Lions in the high grass alongside the strip might be looking for that canned meat walking around. And what to do if You stayed overnight? ... PEE on the tires. The lions do not like that smell/taste and it precluded them using the rubber for chewing gum. A picture in the FBO's office with 3 lions chewing at all three tires proved that one pilot forgot to "treat". them Or ran out of "juice":)
The Grand Canyon was a nice one too, it was the time where there were no restriction flying into it!
Not in the world I would have flown these trips with only 50-100 hrs in my logbook from Mallorca.
OK, these were the more difficult places, but renting in France You need to talk a bit French as many smaller fields have just some older guys handling the radio with close to zero English language. Same as in Germany, however that is improving a lot.
R/T in English/American speaking countries can get difficult for those who were born in countries with other languages.

[Bel Pilot]

Spanish CAA is a nightmare!!
You will suffer months of delays with your licensing requests.
Ask anyone, locals and foreigners, the Spanish CAA is absolutely incompetent. They will keep on losing your documents and make up rules.
Delays can last up to 12 months or more.