Flying a small plane over water, from Northern Ireland to Scotland?

[owenc]

Has anyone done this? My father has a small one engine plane (two seats) that he has had about a year.

We have flown a lot in it but only 30 miles or so within Northern Ireland. We were discussing flying to Kintyre or Ayrshire as a trial run.

Whilst this is a short distance, given the plane size I would be wary.

Our plane cruises at around 150-200mph. We talked about going to 10,000 feet.

Has anyone done a similar crossing? What kind of weather conditions would you need?

We would want to get across as fast as possible so it would be the shortest distance from NI to Scotland. We would not want to spend more than 5 minutes over water.

Is this a risky idea?

[Pilot DAR]

Risk is relative, just be aware, and prepared for the risks. I've done many extended over water single engined flights, never a problem. If the water is lass than "very warm", wear a dry immersion suit. If the water is "very warm" (which I doubt), wear a life jacket. Failure to wear the appropriate emergency apparel could be fatal. If you're unable/unwilling to wear it, don't fly it. If you can, take a raft. Pratice in the water in both the suits and with the raft if at all possible, they are not as easy to use well as you think. If you're flying with a partner, put the raft in a swimming pool, and practice getting in, it requires skill and coordination with your partner. Make sure you're visible, and have a suitable beacon. Carry everything you want out of the plane, on your person. If need be, in a water proof bag. If it's not on your person going out the door, you're likely not to have it at all. Even plan to get a raft out, perhaps from the passenger's lap. If the plane flips when it hits, you won't have time to search the cabin for things, you'll get yourself out with what you're carrying.

Flying higher is better, get as high as you're able, weather and ATC considered. Try to be in communication with someone, either ATC, or a relay aircraft all the way along. Know where you are (GPS lat/long), so if you so have a problem, you can tell someone where you are. File an accurate flight plan, then fly the route you planned - don't deviate, a search won't find you if they're looking in the wrong place. If the weather turns bad, tell someone, and turn around. Don't fly over water at night. Let alone being very hard to find if your ditch, overwater at night may as well be instrument flying (see JFK Jr.)

Get to know the water, and consider it as you're flying over. Identify waves and swells, they're different. If you must ditch, ditch along the swells, as into the wind as possible, but along a swell as the priority. Don't let the waves distract you, it's the swells which hurt if you hit them wrong.

There is lots written about ditching, so searches will turn up lots of useful information. There are also underwater egress courses, which are excellent training, and just plain fun!

As to risk, it's yours to consider. Different pilots have different risk thresholds, and that's perfectly okay. Just understand it, and be prepared if you decide to go. When I was crashed into the water by my fellow pilot two years ago, a lifetime of swimming, 25 years as a water and ice water rescuer and trainer, having been wearing my life jacket already, and warm water all contributed to it not being fatal. My friend, an 20 year water pilot flipped his floatplane 5 weeks ago, and drowned. Though an experienced pilot, he was unprepared for water entry. His wife and kids aboard survived. I like to think that if he had to drown, he did it helping them out first - I don't know. But, they weren't wearing life jackets...

Understand all that you can, and how you feel that you may be prepared, and then make your decision. It it's to go, prepare, and be willing to turn around if things go bad, there's no shame in sticking to a plan which includes "turn around if you feel you should"!

[27/09]

Has anyone done this? My father has a small one engine plane (two seats) that he has had about a year.

We have flown a lot in it but only 30 miles or so within Northern Ireland. We were discussing flying to Kintyre or Ayrshire as a trial run.

Whilst this is a short distance, given the plane size I would be wary. Why?

Our plane cruises at around 150-200mph. We talked about going to 10,000 feet. You may need to think about getting a clearance into controlled airspace. Why so high? At 3500 feet at the mid way point you should be able to glide to either coast. Remember most peoples biggest fear, an engine failure is a very rare occurrence, most accidents are caused through other events usually pilot induced.

Has anyone done a similar crossing? Many, many times and over much greater distances. What kind of weather conditions would you need? Depends on what the pilot was comfortable with, personally I'd be more than happy with a 2000' cloud base and anything more than 10 km visibility

We would want to get across as fast as possible so it would be the shortest distance from NI to Scotland. We would not want to spend more than 5 minutes over water. The shortest distance looks to be 13 nm which at 150 MPH (130 knots) is 5 minutes

Is this a risky idea? NO.

See my Responses in RED.

[Chuck Glider]

Long ago I read somewhere that an engine failure very often occurred when changes were made to power settings, fuel tank changes etc. That was before I made my first water crossing, Mull of Kintyre to N.I. as it happens, and I have always attended to whatever needed to be fiddled with before coasting out with the intention of changing nothing until I was 'feet dry'. Don't know if it made any difference but it seemed sensible to me and I've never had to ditch.

[Fl1ingfrog]

In a small light aircraft the amount and type of survival equipment you can carry is limited. Each person should have as a minimum a life jacket preferably the constant wear type. If the aircraft is fitted with an ELT great, if not have a PLB with you and ensure it is available to be activated.

In terms of operating the aeroplane why should it be operated differently as some have suggested. The aircraft does not know it is flying over water, mountains or any other type of surface so will operate normally. Human error is the greatest cause of failures, in any scenario, and therefore changing to a non standard operation/routine should not be part of the flight. Where mechanical failure has been shown to be the cause then, in most cases, data shows that the fault was already known before the flight but ignored. Prior to departure ensure that there are no ongoing issues that should be resolved by an engineer. Preflight checks should be done diligently and completed fully before take-off.

All the above should of course be the case before any flight. Poor maintenance and unpractised sloppy checks, including those undertaken during flight, create their own outcomes.

[Jan Olieslagers]

The aircraft does not know it is flying over water, mountains or any other type of surface Agreed! The plane may indeed quit any time, any place. One should have a plan B always, everywhere. But in some places, the choices for a plan B are limited, and what options there are require more skill.

Human error is the greatest cause of failures, in any scenario, Agreed again! But some places are more forgiving of human error than others.

[Auxtank]

Has anyone done this? My father has a small one engine plane (two seats) that he has had about a year.

We have flown a lot in it but only 30 miles or so within Northern Ireland. We were discussing flying to Kintyre or Ayrshire as a trial run.

Whilst this is a short distance, given the plane size I would be wary.

Our plane cruises at around 150-200mph. We talked about going to 10,000 feet.

Has anyone done a similar crossing? What kind of weather conditions would you need?

We would want to get across as fast as possible so it would be the shortest distance from NI to Scotland. We would not want to spend more than 5 minutes over water.

Is this a risky idea?




You're asking the Internet?

From this backwater of it I say: Don't do it!

Start with your V speeds and go from there.

[Maoraigh1]

150-200 mph (kts?) cruise is faster than anything I've flown. Only 30 mile trips from base in such an aircraft is surprising.
I've flown over Scottish sea quite often. Over the mainland, I'd often consider ditching in a loch, colder than sea water, if I had an engine failure. I always wear a lifejacket.
You'll have good radar and radio cover.
At 10,000' you're likely to be above cloud, and with icing on descent through it.

[owenc]

150-200 mph (kts?) cruise is faster than anything I've flown. Only 30 mile trips from base in such an aircraft is surprising.
I've flown over Scottish sea quite often. Over the mainland, I'd often consider ditching in a loch, colder than sea water, if I had an engine failure. I always wear a lifejacket.
You'll have good radar and radio cover.
At 10,000' you're likely to be above cloud, and with icing on descent through it.

Well he’s building up experience. We would want to go high up so that we can come down over land if the engine goes bang.

[Piper.Classique]

Just out of interest, what is the aircraft type? Only asking from curiosity.

[Forfoxake]

Has anyone done this? My father has a small one engine plane (two seats) that he has had about a year.

We have flown a lot in it but only 30 miles or so within Northern Ireland. We were discussing flying to Kintyre or Ayrshire as a trial run.

Whilst this is a short distance, given the plane size I would be wary.

Our plane cruises at around 150-200mph. We talked about going to 10,000 feet.

Has anyone done a similar crossing? What kind of weather conditions would you need?

We would want to get across as fast as possible so it would be the shortest distance from NI to Scotland. We would not want to spend more than 5 minutes over water.

Is this a risky idea?
This sounds like a wind-up but if serious, I apologise and would make the following comments:

I have made this journey several times in two seat aircraft that cruise at 75 - 95 knots but still do not take it lightly.

I always wear a survival (dry) suit and a life jacket and fly as high as the weather allows. This is usually less than 5000 ft which is around the lower limit of most of the CTA anyway on my favourite route from just NW of Portpatrick to Copeland Island (19nm). I know it is shorter from Mull of Kintyre to Torr head and you can fly higher but to get there from Ayrshire you have to cross more stretches of water (and some mountainous terrain) unless you go a very long way round. And there are more boats on the more southerly route!

I always speak to Scottish info and then switch to Belfast City before halfway across. Unfortunately, they sometimes force your down lower before you reach the Irish coast.

I like good visibility, preferably seeing the other side before I coast out, because I am flying VFR. Hazy days, even with high cloud are a no go.

I have not found filing a flight plan particularly useful (unless going direct to the Republic of course) but do not forget about giving enough notice to Special Branch via a GAR.

Above all, speak to people who have done it before for example from Newtownards or Eglinton and take their advice!

PS I always carry a PLB on my person and have a hand-held radio. I know the engine does not know it is over water but if it quits, even if you make a perfect ditching, the water is so cold at all times of the year that you will not last long if you are not picked up quickly. Better safe than sorry!

[sycamore]

27/09------6 MINUTES

[Paul Lupp]

Just out of interest, what is the aircraft type? Only asking from curiosity.
Ho hum.....
just out of interest, what are your approximate ages?
20 and 50?
50 and 80?

This could make a difference to thinking and reaction times if things go awry.

There is some good advice (dare I say it, excellent advice) above already including having a plan that includes turning back if one or both of you starts to get concerned about carrying on.

In simple terms if the plane is well maintained, checked thoroughly before the flight, the weather is good, then there is no additional risk over the 30 mile flights that you have already made.

One other thing I would add is when in flight, don't get distracted by "idle chit chat", both of you should be paying attention at all times to what is going on in, and around, the plane.
Good luck and safe flying !

[double_barrel]

Has anyone done this? My father has a small one engine plane (two seats) that he has had about a year.

We have flown a lot in it but only 30 miles or so within Northern Ireland. We were discussing flying to Kintyre or Ayrshire as a trial run.

Whilst this is a short distance, given the plane size I would be wary.

Our plane cruises at around 150-200mph. We talked about going to 10,000 feet.

Has anyone done a similar crossing? What kind of weather conditions would you need?

We would want to get across as fast as possible so it would be the shortest distance from NI to Scotland. We would not want to spend more than 5 minutes over water.

Is this a risky idea?

Oi Owen,

Are you saying you don't trust me to come-up with a decent plan for this ?

Why not hear my plans, then ask your mates on PPRUNE if they think I know my arse from my elbow.

Dad

[wacits]

There are quite a few microlight flexwings and 3 axis which fly from Folkestone to cap Gris Nez ( 22 miles) which is the shortest distance over water to France. Most travel speed is 65-120 mph. Most will travel over the water at 80mph with life jackets etc. Grant it the channel is busy and we probably fly at 4500’ possible glide back to land. North Sea less busy.
in June 2019 a group on the fly-UK did the 28 mile hop from Scotland to Northern Ireland I cannot remember the exact route taken. Again these were in microlights.all had immersion suits just on I believe.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

The aircraft does not know it is flying over water, mountains or any other type of surface so will operate normally.
It does know when it's in cloud though! - all the suction pump failures and pressure instrument failures I've had have been in IMC.

[Ebbie 2003]

I regularly fly from Dominica to Barbados - 177 miles over open water in my Archer II - couple of times a month; VFR here is max.8,500 in Barbados airspace - generally, I fly west at 6,500 and east at 5,500.

One thing is that the water is warm - have life jackets worn by all, a four man raft and a GPS portable locator beacon.

Would think that the biggest issue if one had to ditch on your passage would be cold, so maybe a couple of immersion suits would be a good idea as one would maybe have to be in the water for hours.

Need to make sure that the airplane is well maintained and FULL of fuel - if the weather descends you would want the time to fly out of it.

Of course never do the over water thing immediately after maintenance, fly a couple of hours over land to make sure no problems remain.

[Piper.Classique]

Ah, but is that because that's when you are watching? You know what they say about a watched pot, Gertrude.... Of course there is also the malevolence of inanimate objects, too, or possibly Gremlins. As long as the lift fairies keep working it'll be alright. One day I must count how many crossings I've done from Cherbourg via Isle of Wight in the cub, fine pitch prop and all. Forget about a dingy, lifejackets is all you can squeeze in.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Ah, but is that because that's when you are watching? You know what they say about a watched pot, Gertrude....
Possibly - in VMC I might miss a VAC warning light coming on if the other pump was still working. But the other occasion involved the altimeter needle jumping around, and I'd have noticed that in VMC.

[Piper.Classique]

I suspect deliberate perversity on the part of the aircraft, then. You are probably right, it knows it is in cloud, doesn't like it, and wants you to take it back into the sunshine.

[Maoraigh1]

The water now will be as warm as it gets. If you leave it till next year, there may be additional problems, depending on whether Northern Ireland and Scotland are both in the UK, both in the UK and EU, or other possibilities.
P.S. I've flown a Jodel DR1050 to Ireland 3 times. Prestwick to Dublin Weston with Donegal to Inverness return, and twice Inverness to Sligo and return. Not taking the shortest overwater track.

[Forfoxake]

PPS Top tip I almost forgot that someone showed me years ago: Just before you coast out, switch each mag off and on in turn to check both are still working. If not, I would turn back!

[owenc]

There are quite a few microlight flexwings and 3 axis which fly from Folkestone to cap Gris Nez ( 22 miles) which is the shortest distance over water to France. Most travel speed is 65-120 mph. Most will travel over the water at 80mph with life jackets etc. Grant it the channel is busy and we probably fly at 4500’ possible glide back to land. North Sea less busy.
in June 2019 a group on the fly-UK did the 28 mile hop from Scotland to Northern Ireland I cannot remember the exact route taken. Again these were in microlights.all had immersion suits just on I believe.
Yes. I have watched these on YouTube, although they seem to take a while? One took 45 minutes to cross.
Ho hum.....
just out of interest, what are your approximate ages?
20 and 50?
50 and 80?

This could make a difference to thinking and reaction times if things go awry.

There is some good advice (dare I say it, excellent advice) above already including having a plan that includes turning back if one or both of you starts to get concerned about carrying on.

In simple terms if the plane is well maintained, checked thoroughly before the flight, the weather is good, then there is no additional risk over the 30 mile flights that you have already made.

One other thing I would add is when in flight, don't get distracted by "idle chit chat", both of you should be paying attention at all times to what is going on in, and around, the plane.
Good luck and safe flying !
Thank You. I am in my 20’s and he is 60+. But yes absolutely, there would be no discussion, we would need to be watching for clouds/disturbances and for other aircraft.

Given the risks involved we wouldn’t be best served sitting chatting.
The water now will be as warm as it gets. If you leave it till next year, there may be additional problems, depending on whether Northern Ireland and Scotland are both in the UK, both in the UK and EU, or other possibilities.
P.S. I've flown a Jodel DR1050 to Ireland 3 times. Prestwick to Dublin Weston with Donegal to Inverness return, and twice Inverness to Sligo and return. Not taking the shortest overwater track.
I am a British citizen and discussed divergence would only be agriculture etc not aviation.

We certainly don’t intend on taking anything longer than 20 miles over water. We are not experienced in this, so we would want to take as little risk as possible.

[150 Driver]

Do your planning, know your numbers find your best glide speed and rate of descent at that speed. All should be in the poh and be practised !

Let’s assume for illustration 60knots and 500 feet per minute.

so if engine cuts you have a glider

if you are at 10,000 feet as you mention that gives you 20 minutes before your feet are wet (10,000/500). It will be less than that due to prop drag but for illustration I’ll leave it at 20

in 20 minutes at 60 knots you’ll travel 20 nautical miles. (Airspeed not groundspeed, I’ll let you do the headwind/tailwind calculations) As the crossing is - your number - 28 (statute/nautical ?)miles the furthest you are from land is 14 miles.

All of which concludes that the risk of getting wet as a result of engine failure is mathematically non existent at 10,000 feet

still leaves in flight fire, structural problems causing ‘immediate’ descent etc as risks

Personally I wouldn’t bother going as high as 10,000 feet, work the algebra backwards and you can calculate your personal minimum safe height, and how many miles in the middle you are exposed at.
In my view the biggest danger is haze and being unable to distinguish sea from sky. An older and wiser pilot than me took to one side just after my ppl and recommended not to do a channel hop until after getting an IRR.
I followed that advice, understood why on the first time I did it and pass it on whenever I can !

Safe flight

[Piper.Classique]

I would still like to know the aircraft type.... Please.

[Jan Olieslagers]

... seconded!

[Forfoxake]

I would still like to know the aircraft type.... Please.
Probably irrelevant unless you think that low wing more likely to float for a while with cockpit above water, especially if wooden! Would still depend on a low touch down speed imho and probably retractable gear.

However, with a 150 - 200 mph cruise speed, possibly a RV?

[Piper.Classique]

Well, this whole thread is making me wonder a bit. Because the OP has been posting his intentions of a career in aviation, but it's his father who is the pilot, and something sounds a bit odd. Especially some of his replies, in particular a total lack of concern over major political changes in the near future, many of which will almost certainly have an impact on all kinds of aviation and border crossings. Which when combined with an aircraft cruising speed which isn't usual in a first aircraft purchase and a, shall we say, extreme caution over a short over water segment, makes me want to know what is going on. So I just wondered what this aircraft is.

[Forfoxake]

Roger, P C.

[Marchettiman]

Might I suggest that the OP goes for an initial Class 1 Medical examination and shows the quack copies of his posts on this thread?

[owenc]

Might I suggest that the OP goes for an initial Class 1 Medical examination and shows the quack copies of his posts on this thread?
what? Justify what you are saying. Do your planning, know your numbers find your best glide speed and rate of descent at that speed. All should be in the poh and be practised !

Let’s assume for illustration 60knots and 500 feet per minute.

so if engine cuts you have a glider

if you are at 10,000 feet as you mention that gives you 20 minutes before your feet are wet (10,000/500). It will be less than that due to prop drag but for illustration I’ll leave it at 20

in 20 minutes at 60 knots you’ll travel 20 nautical miles. (Airspeed not groundspeed, I’ll let you do the headwind/tailwind calculations) As the crossing is - your number - 28 (statute/nautical ?)miles the furthest you are from land is 14 miles.

All of which concludes that the risk of getting wet as a result of engine failure is mathematically non existent at 10,000 feet

still leaves in flight fire, structural problems causing ‘immediate’ descent etc as risks

Personally I wouldn’t bother going as high as 10,000 feet, work the algebra backwards and you can calculate your personal minimum safe height, and how many miles in the middle you are exposed at.
In my view the biggest danger is haze and being unable to distinguish sea from sky. An older and wiser pilot than me took to one side just after my ppl and recommended not to do a channel hop until after getting an IRR.
I followed that advice, understood why on the first time I did it and pass it on whenever I can !

Safe flight
Thank you. The distance to Mainland Scotland is 21 Statute miles from outside Larne, where did I say 28? (I know that Kintyre is 12 miles but that would involve a lot of island hopping to get to the true mainland)

Where are you getting the 60 Knots figure from? If we were cruising along at 150 knots and had an engine failure would this not be a starting point?

Weather on that crossing is my main concern. I know from experience that it is difficult to get a time with decent weather over the North Channel.

It’s not rare for there to be fog in the North Channel in a High Pressure situation. In fact, often it is the case where you can see the Mull of Kintyre from our NE coast on a cloudy day, but not on a sunny, calm day. So clear conditions are rare.

Perhaps as a trial run we could try going out 5-10 miles and turning around just to see what the conditions are like and what we would be setting ourselves in for. Well, this whole thread is making me wonder a bit. Because the OP has been posting his intentions of a career in aviation, but it's his father who is the pilot, and something sounds a bit odd. Especially some of his replies, in particular a total lack of concern over major political changes in the near future, many of which will almost certainly have an impact on all kinds of aviation and border crossings. Which when combined with an aircraft cruising speed which isn't usual in a first aircraft purchase and a, shall we say, extreme caution over a short over water segment, makes me want to know what is going on. So I just wondered what this aircraft is.

I’m not going to provide the type of plane as my fathers name and address appears when the registration is put in and I would rather keep that private thanks.

I don’t want to be crucified by the people on this forum either, you’ve given me enough digs at this stage.

[On Track]

The over water distance is insignificant if you've prepared properly. Flying over mountains or desert can be at least as risky if you haven't taken appropriate precautions.

The most important factor is your ability to make good decisions regarding the weather on the day.

[kghjfg]

Just give us the type, not the registration. The interest is in which 2 seater you think flies that fast. It’s odd that your father is a new pilot, but is flying a very fast aircraft.

I presume your father understands best glide speed if he has a license, as you do not have a license, I understand why you find the concept confusing above.

What is REALLY odd is why your pilot father doesn’t explain the concept to you, understand what controlled airspace is, or know about SEP operations.

The funny thing is, if you just asked real questions, you’d get real answers from experienced pilots, it sounds like you’ve made something up though.

Now, back to the aircraft, tell us which mk Spitfire it is, because I’d say it’s less risk in an original TR9 if that’s what you have.

[owenc]

It’s a RV7. :rolleyes:

Now you’re not getting anything else out of me.

[MR172]

If you've only flown within 30 miles then I assume you haven't landed away from yor home base yet?

Why don't you go to one of the many airfields across Ireland? Would eliminate any anxieties you have about flying over water.

Donegal, Sligo, Enniskillen and Weston all good options

[150 Driver]

Thank you. The distance to Mainland Scotland is 21 Statute miles from outside Larne, where did I say 28? (I know that Kintyre is 12 miles but that would involve a lot of island hopping to get to the true mainland)

Where are you getting the 60 Knots figure from? If we were cruising along at 150 knots and had an engine failure would this not be a starting point?

Weather on that crossing is my main concern. I know from experience that it is difficult to get a time with decent weather over the North Channel.

It’s not rare for there to be fog in the North Channel in a High Pressure situation. In fact, often it is the case where you can see the Mull of Kintyre from our NE coast on a cloudy day, but not on a sunny, calm day. So clear conditions are rare.

Perhaps as a trial run we could try going out 5-10 miles and turning around just to see what the conditions are like and what we would be setting ourselves in for.

i got the 60 knots (best glide speed) and the 500 fpm rate of descent from nowhere, hence the ‘assume’. Both will come from the pilot operating manual which we are taught to look in, your father will have and which I don’t.

if your engine fails at 150 knots you’re right that is the starting point, but the aircraft won’t keep moving at that speed without a prop turning - think about a car when the engine stops. The difference with a plane is that a pilot can keep it moving forwards using gravity-trading height for speed.

(Very simply Gravity wants the plane to fall from the sky, the wings give lift to counteract that. Drag (air friction) wants the plane to stop moving forwards and there’s no longer an engine to overcome drag. If the plane isn’t moving through the air the wings stop producing lift. So you angle the plane downwards, the airspeed created by the plane ‘falling’ gives lift which means you keep flying forwards but downwards. The pilot holds the plane at the angle that returns best glide speed)

Somebody has done the sums for you in stating best glide speed which is the optimum speed to fly at without the engine working. It’s different for every model of plane and a pilot should know these numbers before taking off so that in a situation they instantly know what to fly at.

Sorry about the 28 mile reference, if the distance is only 21 then the minimum height can be lower.

incidentally, did you really mean that you’ve never been more than 30 miles from base ? At 150 mph cruise you cover 2.5 miles per minute so that makes your longest flight has been 12 minutes long ?

I’m sure your father knows all this, he will have studied it in getting his licence which I’m guessing wasn’t all that long ago.

[Piper.Classique]

Oh, I expect they have flown round in circles a bit. My syndicate partner and I had to do that with our homebuilt, 25 km radius from base, cruising speed 130 knots. It got well boring after a while, especially the flight to confirm endurance. Three hours then fill it up again to confirm thirty minutes remaining. We actually had the thick end of an hour left, but stuck with the three hours so as not to have to do it again . I was lumbered with that one. We had some fun getting it harmonised. Ended up with aileron spades ( shameless copy from a Cap 10.) Then we had to find somewhere to put the radio and transponder where we could both see and turn the knobs. Not as easy as it might sound with a centre stick.

Heaved a big sigh of relief when the test programme was done and we could actually go somewhere. Not a Vans, btw. Nearly as quick and a lot cheaper. Stern Vega. His third and my second aircraft. Thirty years toddling around in a cub and now still getting used to twice the speed and more than twice landing distance.

[owenc]

My father has flown further, though not with myself. Obviously it’s a capable plane.

[Maoraigh1]

Best glide speed from the manual is irrelevant. Wind must be considered. If your only chance of getting near a beach or ship is into wind, then a higher glide speed may take you farther. Downwind the manual speed will be best, but with a 180° turn to ditch.

[Forfoxake]

My father has flown further, though not with myself. Obviously it’s a capable plane.
Then I think you should probably trust your father, the pilot in command, to do the appropriate planning!

If he has any genuine queries about flying over to Scotland, then he will get lots of good advice by posting here.

I hope you will understand why it seems a little odd to other pilots that you are researching on his behalf. I have never expected any passenger to plan their flight with me. Indeed, I owe them a duty of care to do it properly myself.

[Forfoxake]

PS I have never expected even another pilot to flight plan for me when I am PIC, although I may well have consulted them.

[airwave45]

The crossing has been done in a glider, at least once.
And not very high either, 6000' or so.

[owenc]

We flew towards the NE coast today but it was cloudy over the sea. Don’t think we could’ve done it today despite the sunshine on land.

Hence the earlier reference to fog on the North Channel.

We couldn’t even see Scotland today from the air. Then I think you should probably trust your father, the pilot in command, to do the appropriate planning!

If he has any genuine queries about flying over to Scotland, then he will get lots of good advice by posting here.

I hope you will understand why it seems a little odd to other pilots that you are researching on his behalf. I have never expected any passenger to plan their flight with me. Indeed, I owe them a duty of care to do it properly myself.

I’m allowed to take an interest and ask questions. :rolleyes: I certainly won’t be asking you any.

[Piper.Classique]

When in a hole and unable to get out, the time to stop digging is already in the past. A dignified retreat may not be possible for the OP, but personally I'm out of here while I still have some vestige of sanity remaining.

[owenc]

When in a hole and unable to get out, the time to stop digging is already in the past. A dignified retreat may not be possible for the OP, but personally I'm out of here while I still have some vestige of sanity remaining.
eh? What are you talking about?

[Sygyzy]

OWENC

What he's trying to tell you is that you've massively overthought this. (Either that or you're a troll and I claim my £5). Take some precautions yes, but all this nonsense (climbing to 10000feet etc etc) is just that - nonsense. If you seriously think that the engine is gonna quit - then take the train, or bus or skype the people you wish to see cos aviation in a small SEP ain't for you. Now it might be for your father (FIL I forget and can't be bothered to go back and find out), but if he's the slightest bit interested/ has an enquiring mind then why isn't he posting here to get some real answers - as has been pointed out before. It's not you that has the PPL - that info is blindingly obvious.
He owns an aircraft but it doesn't seem that he's been far in it. Land away anyone. The airplane has no knowledge of the terrain/water it's over - it's a machine that hopefully has been maintained to a high standard and won't let you down.
t's like being a model railway enthusiast with a simple oval and you pretend running the lastest superduper remote controlled engine on the track is fantastic and all you want to do. No points/switches, no extra carriages, no shunting. I don't buy it.

There...that's the amount of bandwidth I'm, prepared to waste today. I claim my fiver.

Rgds, S

S .

[owenc]

Keep your fiver. I’m highly offended at the suggestion that I couldn’t be a Pilot.

[Saab Dastard]

This thread has run its course and is going nowhere.

Sd