A320 Manual Landing Technique

[OPL]

Hello,

Just finish my A320 type rating and base training,
Any advices about the A320 landing techniques, especially the flare, and the effect of weight and wind.
still confuse how I should deal with it on A320 ..

Regards

[easymxp]

What have your trainers suggested? What about your landings during base training? On what do you feel weak?
Honestly I find more difficult to land a very light plane, this because I got used to high payloads which are the norm, when I flew almost empty planes I ended up floating.
The advices I was given during my training were to start looking more outside than inside at around 500’ latest, at 50’ positively move my sight towards half - 3/4 runway and feel the closure rate. What I was warned from day one, was never do a two stage flare, like a small input at 50’ and the flare at 30’, by doing this you could waste some runway. Regarding thrust normally it should be closed very close to the beginning of the flare, but this changes due to environment/weight. Landings are something you develop by doing many times, don’t overthink too much and enjoy. Congrats for starting Airbus.

PS be careful on the seating position and try to stick to FCTM guidance

[hans brinker]

I see a lot of pilots flare early (50'), that almost always leads to an increase in thrust (AT is in Speed mode). Eats up runway fast. If the AT is on, reduce TLA to stop/limit power increase around 40', start to flare around 30', and don't prolong the flare, but work it into a touchdown as soon as you can. I sometimes get a great landing, but (almost) never land long.
Also (company procedure permitting), if you use full reverse, don't go from full reverse to forward idle as the engines will still be spooled up, wait at idle reverse until spooled down before closing the buckets (or sleeve...).
Good luck!

[Commander Taco]

.....and then there’s the gusty crosswinds, you know, blowing 20 with gusts to 30 knots. Worst airplane I ever flew in those conditions since the Beech 18. Back when I flew it, Airbus insisted that the ailerons were in normal law until touchdown. Turns out that wasn’t completely true. How to handle the little beast in conditions such as above is a topic worthy of discussion.

[hans brinker]

.....and then there’s the gusty crosswinds, you know, blowing 20 with gusts to 30 knots. Worst airplane I ever flew in those conditions since the Beech 18. Back when I flew it, Airbus insisted that the ailerons were in normal law until touchdown. Turns out that wasn’t completely true. How to handle the little beast in conditions such as above is a topic worthy of discussion.


FWIW: In an Airbus the AP is always on, and the sidestick controls it just like the 4 buttons on the FCU. Don't correct for gusts, wait for "it" to correct "itself" while on the approach. The less you touch the sidestick the better. Don't fly till you flare.

My opinion.

[Banana Joe]

.....and then there’s the gusty crosswinds, you know, blowing 20 with gusts to 30 knots. Worst airplane I ever flew in those conditions since the Beech 18. Back when I flew it, Airbus insisted that the ailerons were in normal law until touchdown. Turns out that wasn’t completely true. How to handle the little beast in conditions such as above is a topic worthy of discussion.
This was one of the causes for the Lufthansa wing strike incident a few years ago, right?

[AerocatS2A]

.....and then there’s the gusty crosswinds, you know, blowing 20 with gusts to 30 knots. Worst airplane I ever flew in those conditions since the Beech 18. Back when I flew it, Airbus insisted that the ailerons were in normal law until touchdown. Turns out that wasn’t completely true. How to handle the little beast in conditions such as above is a topic worthy of discussion.
Well, it is normal law, it’s just that normal laws has some different modes for different phases of flight.

[John Citizen]

This has always worked well for me, which is what I was taught on day 1:

Be stabilised flying towards the aim point/following the GP

100' - look far ahead at the very far end of the runway (most important, to be able to judge the sink rate during the flare)

(if I make a bad landing, it's often because I don't do this and so I often have to remind myself to do this)

Maintain attitude.

After the 30' call - thrust levers idle (also rudder now if crosswind).

After the 20' call - flare

(very important - don't flare too early. Not until after the 20' call otherwise you will land long or firm)

Flare - just a small back pressure input to raise the noise maybe 2 degrees.

Flare by looking at the far end of the runway, and just judge your sink rate as normal (looking at changing runway perspective and the runway edge lines/runway edge lights) to minimise sink and touchdown in the zone.

I hope this helps.

[virustalon]

This has always worked well for me, which is what I was taught on day 1:

Be stabilised flying towards the aim point/following the GP

100' - look far ahead at the very far end of the runway (most important, to be able to judge the sink rate during the flare)

(if I make a bad landing, it's often because I don't do this and so I often have to remind myself to do this)

Maintain attitude.

After the 30' call - thrust levers idle (also rudder now if crosswind).

After the 20' call - flare

(very important - don't flare too early. Not until after the 20' call otherwise you will land long or firm)

Flare - just a small back pressure input to raise the noise maybe 2 degrees.

Flare by looking at the far end of the runway, and just judge your sink rate as normal (looking at changing runway perspective and the runway edge lines/runway edge lights) to minimise sink and touchdown in the zone.

I hope this helps.


ditto, you’ll grease it, just make sure you pull the side stick gently and and very little, it is just a touch. At 5 callout just keep pulling progressively but only at 5.


in gusty, unstable conditions reduce thrust at 20 and at 10 flare the same way.

cheers

[John Citizen]

In an Airbus the AP is always on, and the sidestick controls it just like the 4 buttons on the FCU


Then what is the purpose of the 2 buttons on the FCU labelled AP1 and AP2 ?

What is the purpose of the red button on the sidestick?

Why do I have to make continuous corrections to fly an accurate flightpath/ILS compared to doing nothing if the AP button is selected on or not ?

I bet you are the one of these people that also says that you can't handfly an Airbus. But then what is the purpose of holding and moving the sidestick with your hand ?

[AerocatS2A]

Sure you handfly an Airbus, but it is different to handflying a conventional aircraft. An Airbus FBW is making control inputs at the same time as you. I enjoy the Airbus but I feel disconnected from the air.

To those recommending certain actions in response to radalt call outs, don’t become too reliant on them, sometimes they don’t work.

[byrondaf]

Don't get hung up on exactly when to flare and how much, it will vary depending on weight, wind, runway slope etc. Just LOOK OUTSIDE and adjust your closure rate based on what you see, it will be different for every single approach. If you start getting hung up on a cue to flare like the rad alt etc then you're more likely to just smash it in. We've all been there!

[giggitygiggity]

Don't get hung up on exactly when to flare and how much, it will vary depending on weight, wind, runway slope etc. Just LOOK OUTSIDE and adjust your closure rate based on what you see, it will be different for every single approach. If you start getting hung up on a cue to flare like the rad alt etc then you're more likely to just smash it in. We've all been there!

Agreed, like virustalon's comments in gusty, unstable conditions reduce thrust at 20 and at 10 flare the same way.

That's probably not the wisest thing to say in a thread where someone brand new to the type (large jets?) is asking for tips. Next time it's gusting 12kts across and tries to flare at 10ft, at the very least, the captain will be in for a shock. If descent rate has increased to say 900fpm, 10ft will result in a VERY firm or hard landing.

The problem with asking for tips on somewhere like here is everyone from every different airline with completely different opinions and training/career backgrounds will give you their 2 cents. Some cut their teeth on fast jets, some have only flown an Airbus so everyones experience and method will be different. This is not what you want. You will end up taking the "flare at 10ft when it's gusty" thing and then add the "after 20ft flare" thing together and end up breaking something on a 1% upslope on a slightly steeper than normal approach as you're trying to fly the numbers. Landing isn't IFR flying, it's visual flying.

Instead, listen to your instructors and just keep going back to your companies landing technique and repeat it. As you get more experienced, you'll realise where you can and need to tweak it. Quality of landings in early stages is always going to look like a damped sine wave. You'll slam it in every so often, then go back to floaty ones. One will float a lot so the next time you slam it in. The peaks and troughs WILL get less and less and you'll crack it (metaphorically).

To go against all of my advice briefly, i will say the only 'number' I do pay attention to is the landing weight when the FO is flying. The A320 sidesticks aren't linked so you cant feel when they're beginning to flare. If I see a high landing weight, i should reasonably expect them to flare sooner rather than later - and vice versa. It just gives me a bit of a clue as to when we're likely to float or perhaps land hard/bounce etc.

[John Citizen]

Instead, listen to your instructors and just keep going back to your companies landing technique and repeat it


This technique actually DID come from an experienced company instructor. I did NOT make it up myself and it still works well 1,000 landings later.


To those recommending certain actions in response to radalt call outs, don’t become too reliant on them, sometimes they don’t work


Over 1,000 landings in the Airbus and the radalt call always worked. Obviously, with a dual rad alt failure (in the simulator) this technique cannot be used, but it is a good technique to learn on and after a while you will learn the picture and know when and how to flare without the rad alt.

Don't get hung up on exactly when to flare and how much, it will vary depending on weight, wind, runway slope etc. Just LOOK OUTSIDE and adjust your closure rate based on what you see, it will be different for every single approach


Yes sure, there will always be variations as you mentioned, but the technique I mentioned above works most times in most landings (typical weight, wind, slope etc). and it is a good starting point for routine normal non-challenging conditions (as you would expect for you first few landings).

[FlightDetent]

John, your technique sounds adequate. Except instead of 30' to apply decrab rudder, I like to suggest below 5' is more aligned with the FCTM.

Btw that 5 feet RA call gets omitted about 2x a week here and I have no idea why, which caught me red-handed more times than I could remember. Even when looking towards the far runway end, which apparently I am not very good at, that missing "5" sends a mental shockwave through the unconscious, throwing the rest off balance. Typically over a 60 wide piece on a 3 a.m. rainy arrival.

----

To the original poster:

are you here?

[hans brinker]

Then what is the purpose of the 2 buttons on the FCU labelled AP1 and AP2 ?

What is the purpose of the red button on the sidestick?

Why do I have to make continuous corrections to fly an accurate flightpath/ILS compared to doing nothing if the AP button is selected on or not ?

I bet you are the one of these people that also says that you can't handfly an Airbus. But then what is the purpose of holding and moving the sidestick with your hand ?


Buddy, you are barking up the wrong tree. Obviously you have experience, I was trying to explain to a new Airbus pilot how it's different from a conventional aircraft. I hand fly AT/AP/FD off a lot. It is not a conventional aircraft, and correcting for disturbances will very often lead to overcorrection because, unlike a conventional aircraft, an Airbus will try to correct for disturbances with the autopilot off. Hence my suggestion to limit control input. Off course you will have to make corrections if you get off the loc/GS, but don't stir the pot....

[Check Airman]

Funny how the “AP is always on” argument only seems to be made for Airbus airplanes. From what I’ve read, the 777 doesn’t have any cables either...

[John Citizen]

John, your technique sounds adequate. Except instead of 30' to apply decrab rudder, I like to suggest below 5' is more aligned with the FCTM.

Btw that 5 feet RA call gets omitted about 2x a week here and I have no idea why


Yes, I agree that 30' is a bit early to decrab, and after 20' or latter is maybe better, however it is interesting to note that in the FCOM, under autoland, FCOM DSC-22_30-80-30-10 it says: At 30 ft RA, the AP/FD aligns the yaw axis with the runway centerline and the aircraft flares on the pitch axis


I always thought if this is how the automation does it, then maybe I should also fly it the same way.

BTW, the Airbus I fly only have rad alt calls at 50, 40, 30 and 20, We don't get 10 or 5.

[OPL]

what they teach us on simulator,
follow the FDs or keep the rate (usually 700-750) until threshold
at 50 break the rate (around 400-350) by pull the side stick and release it
at 30 THR Idle, meanwhile start the flare, by pull the side stick and keep it
once the mean wheels touch ground, REV Idle
however this method work for simulator and for some flights only.

Now I try to respect the FCTM but i struggle to find a way to flare in right time with wise rate

[FlightDetent]

BTW, the Airbus I fly only have rad alt calls at 50, 40, 30 and 20, We don't get 10 or 5. Now it is getting into a proper Airbus thread, all philosophical and fuzzy logic inside out. :}This: Is it appropriate wording to say the 5' RA is missing on yours, even though you lot do not find it missing having never heard one? Subjective objective, uknown knowns, that's the spirit. :8

Well, different configurations I guess. The 10 is usually active for autoland with us.

[sonicbum]

Yes, I agree that 30' is a bit early to decrab, and after 20' or latter is maybe better, however it is interesting to note that in the FCOM, under autoland, FCOM DSC-22_30-80-30-10 it says:

I always thought if this is how the automation does it, then maybe I should also fly it the same way.

BTW, the Airbus I fly only have rad alt calls at 50, 40, 30 and 20, We don't get 10 or 5.

Check Your MSN(s) FCOM chapter 31 to see which calls are installed. Most likely You do have 10 and 5 but in manual landing the “RETARD” call will have priority and by the time it stops You will be on the ground. If You fancy a long flare though, it will eventually prompt you with a “five”. How do I know ? I was told !

[pineteam]

From memory, The 10 and 5 RA call out will come when there is no significant change of altitude for few seconds. Basically when you float. I even heard the « 5 » twice in a row during a very long flare xD.

[John Citizen]

Check Your MSN(s) FCOM chapter 31 to see which calls are installed.


Not installed in our fleet.

Most likely You do have 10 and 5 but in manual landing the “RETARD” call will have priority and by the time it stops You will be on the ground


I very rarely hear the retard call (thrust levers are normally set to idle before that point), but I still don't hear the 10 and 5 call before touchdown, even if a prolonged flare.

[FlightDetent]

It is a pin-programmed option, no sweat.

Speaking of a manual landing technique again: One which has RETARD overlap the "5" RA on a regular basis is not a good example to follow.

BTW I was wondering the other day, why would not the RETARD shut up. Is it tied to N1 instead of TL or what?

[vilas]

Flare and Landing is the only seat of the pant skill left. 30ft and 20ft call in the beginning is a good help to initiate flare but after that one has to land by visual judgment. Yo can't be landing by 10ft and 5ft calls. Initial flare should reduce the rate of descent sufficiently to get out of hard landing and bring thrust to idle but continue to the touch down point and slightly before touchdown a little more reduction is all that is required. Between 30 and 20 feet a/c should be decrabbed.

[sonicbum]

Speaking of a manual landing technique again: One which has RETARD overlap the "5" RA on a regular basis is not a good example to follow.



Not necessarily true.

From FCTM :

At 20 ft, the "RETARD" auto call-out reminds the pilot to retard thrust levers. It is a reminder rather
than an order. When best adapted, the pilot will rapidly retard all thrust levers: depending on the
conditions, the pilot will retard earlier or later.
However, the pilot must ensure that all thrust levers
are at IDLE detent at the latest at touchdown, to ensure ground spoilers extension at touchdown.

[Uplinker]

This has always worked well for me, which is what I was taught on day 1:

Be stabilised flying towards the aim point/following the GP

100' - look far ahead at the very far end of the runway (most important, to be able to judge the sink rate during the flare)

(if I make a bad landing, it's often because I don't do this and so I often have to remind myself to do this)

Maintain attitude.

After the 30' call - thrust levers idle (also rudder now if crosswind).

After the 20' call - flare

(very important - don't flare too early. Not until after the 20' call otherwise you will land long or firm)

Flare - just a small back pressure input to raise the noise maybe 2 degrees.

Flare by looking at the far end of the runway, and just judge your sink rate as normal (looking at changing runway perspective and the runway edge lines/runway edge lights) to minimise sink and touchdown in the zone.

I hope this helps.

That is exactly how to do it - every thing John mentions :ok: I do it all a little lower but that comes with practice once you have ‘got your eye in’. If you are MFF you rely on the RAD Alt a lot for judging the flare on the different sizes and weights of aircraft.


hans brinker is spot on with Airbus FBW. The FCOM does show the feedback from the aircraft via accelerometers to the FBW, but it is quite subtle and not really explained.

Not many trainers seem to know how the FBW interacts with the pilot, or how to operate the side-stick; hence you get unhelpful comments such as “it’s fighting me, hold the stick only at the top, only at the bottom, don’t touch it” etc.

Hold the stick normally, like a pistol, and make sure your arm rest is fully supporting your forearm.

[hans brinker]

Funny how the “AP is always on” argument only seems to be made for Airbus airplanes. From what I’ve read, the 777 doesn’t have any cables either...


Mostly because FBW and AP always on don't mean the same thing.

An Airbus in direct law is still FBW but the AP isn't on anymore. MCAS on a 737 is AP on without FBW.

[Check Airman]

Mostly because FBW and AP always on don't mean the same thing.

An Airbus in direct law is still FBW but the AP isn't on anymore. MCAS on a 737 is AP on without FBW.

Even with all the media coverage, I'm still not well enough informed about MCAS to speak intelligently on it. My point was that in terms of "really flying" as in a DC3, a 777 pilot is just as disconnected from the flight controls as an A320 pilot, but the Airbus guys still seem to get a lot of (good natured) ribbing over it.

I don't mind though. The non-airbus pilots at my company are quite skeptical of the sidestick, and as most of them are senior to me, I've no intention of changing their minds. :cool:

[zone]

Over 15 years on the A320.

Magenta Speed target is not always VAPP.
You will only finesse this when you really understand what you are seeing.

A useful observation is the speed above VLS, as it gives your true energy. More than 5 knots means extra.energy. A last look at 50 feet determines two things,
1. Thrust reduction height.
2. Rate of flare.

If you are 10 knots above VAPP of say 135 knots you are adding about 15% V squared energy. (145 x 145)/(135 x 135) You are flaring in AOA demand law. (Not load factor demand)

The time you have this occurring is when the Wind entry on VAPP page has a low headwind, and the actual headwind is significantly high. (Drives up Ground speed mini and speed target)
This detail is somewhat missing in FCTM.

I call it the 5 foot float, and its a predictable event. If you do a normal 'muscle memory' technique flare with the extra speed (whilst bang on Magenta Speed Target) the float is assured. (Leads into the tail strike).

If you are landing on a short runway, This extra speed can lead to problems with inexperience if you have these conditions, and having a higher FMGC headwind entry can bring down the Magenta speed target.
Maybe I fly into some airports where this happens a lot in summer, but its useful to understand.

The FCOM states 'Insert the Average wind given by ATC on ATIS'
If the Wind is 150/10-20 knots, the average is 15.
(Some read this as Gusting 20 and only put in 10.)
The second example in the FCOM is 150/20G30 (Insert 150/20)

I almost always find there is a gap between thrust reduction and initiation of the flare.

Happy Landings.

[misd-agin]

If I get an increase in speed below 100', can anyone recommend what I do? When do I retard the power? What about the effect of wind and weight? Should I still wait to the 30' call, 20' call, etc, etc? When do I zero out the rudder in a crosswind? Or should I be adding rudder in a crosswind? If I'm adding rudder should I be doing anything with the wings? What about the power?

If I'm slightly high on glide slope what's the recommendation? Accept the deviation? Or adjust my pitch attitude to correct for the slight deviation? What about my power reduction now? Delay it? Do it sooner? Isn't my speed trend going to increase if I decrease my pitch slightly? Won't my sink rate increase?

Which of those variables should I focus on first? Second? Or is it some sort of dynamic event that takes training, experience, knowledge, awareness, and ability to deal with??? Does anyone know if the industry has a training program, instructors, and line training pilots to help?

[sonicbum]

Does anyone know if the industry has a training program, instructors, and line training pilots to help?

Nope, the rule is You go out flying and try it yourself on the real aircraft with passengers while crossing your fingers.

[virustalon]

Do what best suits you. Just make sure to go around if you listen the RA “five five five five”.

What John says works really good for me.

I came to the A 320 after the 76 and I had a hard time finding the height to flare.
Most important in the 76 I first flared and then reduced thrust, here I do it opposite and works good.

in the end, a smooth landing is just a very small part of the whole flight.

[virustalon]

You can also see how the plane auto lands, most planes do it beautifully. The A320 at 30 ‘ (autoland) will retard the thrust and at 10 ‘ will flare. It has no eyes to land visually or feel the rate of descent.
Anywho, don’t listen to me.

[ScepticalOptomist]

If I get an increase in speed below 100', can anyone recommend what I do? When do I retard the power? What about the effect of wind and weight? Should I still wait to the 30' call, 20' call, etc, etc? When do I zero out the rudder in a crosswind? Or should I be adding rudder in a crosswind? If I'm adding rudder should I be doing anything with the wings? What about the power?

If I'm slightly high on glide slope what's the recommendation? Accept the deviation? Or adjust my pitch attitude to correct for the slight deviation? What about my power reduction now? Delay it? Do it sooner? Isn't my speed trend going to increase if I decrease my pitch slightly? Won't my sink rate increase?

Which of those variables should I focus on first? Second? Or is it some sort of dynamic event that takes training, experience, knowledge, awareness, and ability to deal with??? Does anyone know if the industry has a training program, instructors, and line training pilots to help?

Are you flying the real jet or a flight sim? If you’re rated and having this amount of trouble with the basics may I suggest you chat to the training department or a Captain you can easily approach.

These aeroplanes are reasonably easy to fly with a little experience - won’t take you more than a few months to be confident and proficient.

Generally by 100’ you should be flying a visual aimpoint - don’t get too hung up on the GS. Fly the aeroplane to your aiming point and develop an awareness of your energy state. Experience will define for you how much to adjust flare height and rate. Don’t try and grease it on - that’s not important.

Good luck and have fun.

[vilas]

If you are landing on a short runway, This extra speed can lead to problems with inexperience if you have these conditions, and having a higher FMGC headwind entry can bring down the Magenta speed target.
Zone, if actual surface wind is higher than enterd then GS mini will increase Vapp but that doesn't increase Landing distance because the ground speed will be same as calculated before. Only thing is close thrust first and flare less. Why reduce GS mini protection by entering higher winds?

[AerocatS2A]

misd-agin, I think some people have missed the sarcasm in your post.

You can also see how the plane auto lands, most planes do it beautifully. The A320 at 30 ‘ (autoland) will retard the thrust and at 10 ‘ will flare. It has no eyes to land visually or feel the rate of descent.

The A320 autoland is adequate if a touch firm, I wouldn't say it does a beautiful job.

[misd-agin]

Aerocat - agreed. I think my professional MEL planes flown is 21, including 12 jets. I find it interesting that people come to a website to ask questions that a training department probably has experience with and you can get the 1:1 feedback to multiple questions.

As far as autolands, when people ask about the difference between Boeing and Airbus products I mention the difference in autolands - Boeing, 3 A/P's and lands cross-controlled. Airbus - 2 A/P's and lands in a crab.

[RVF750]

Aerocat - agreed. I think my professional MEL planes flown is 21, including 12 jets. I find it interesting that people come to a website to ask questions that a training department probably has experience with and you can get the 1:1 feedback to multiple questions.

As far as autolands, when people ask about the difference between Boeing and Airbus products I mention the difference in autolands - Boeing, 3 A/P's and lands cross-controlled. Airbus - 2 A/P's and lands in a crab.

......Depends on the Boeing.
I must admit the only time I tried an autoland on a Fail-Op 737 I was impressed as it de-crabbed and held itself nicely. A Fail Passive one just dumps it on sideways....

[sonicbum]

Airbus - 2 A/P's and lands in a crab.

Since when ?

[vilas]

Airbus - 2 A/P's and lands in a crab. No. It doesn't. You can do it in the Simulator with 20kt crosswind. Open Flt. Ctl. page on ECP and you will see spoilers deployed to prevent wing rising as it de crabs.

[gnarlberg]

someone out there using a technique where you give a little thrust input prior touchdown ? 32F without shark let tend to let the speed drop fast so I reduce thrust a lot, flare and in 5 knots I give a quick little boost on the thrust and immediately retard, then I get smooth landings.

[compressor stall]

someone out there using a technique where you give a little thrust input prior touchdown ? 32F without shark let tend to let the speed drop fast so I reduce thrust a lot, flare and in 5 knots I give a quick little boost on the thrust and immediately retard, then I get smooth landings.

How far past the 1000’ markers do you touch down with that?

[AerocatS2A]

someone out there using a technique where you give a little thrust input prior touchdown ? 32F without shark let tend to let the speed drop fast so I reduce thrust a lot, flare and in 5 knots I give a quick little boost on the thrust and immediately retard, then I get smooth landings.
That sounds a lot like correcting a consistent slice in your golf swing by aiming 30° off from where you want the ball to go. What I mean is, if you are consistently giving a spurt of thrust in your flare then you are consistently retarding the thrust levers too early and you are better off correcting the underlying fault in your technique rather than adding an extra something to try and make it work.

[gnarlberg]

Nope, I usually hit the 1000‘ , 10% prior 60%on and 28% behind and some 2% long I would say. I don’t have problems with long landings because I don’t need a landing to be soft. I try to hit the 1000‘.

The thrust gives a small pitch up moment whereas pulling the stick sometimes make you pivot the gear into the RWY. My landings (TD) are usually with vapp(not slower) and always below 5degree pitch. I have colleagues landing with vls- and 7-9 degrees

[EGPFlyer]

Nope, I usually hit the 1000‘ , 10% prior 60%on and 28% behind and some 2% long I would say. I don’t have problems with long landings because I don’t need a landing to be soft. I try to hit the 1000‘.

The thrust gives a small pitch up moment whereas pulling the stick sometimes make you pivot the gear into the RWY. My landings (TD) are usually with vapp(not slower) and always below 5degree pitch. I have colleagues landing with vls- and 7-9 degrees

You're landing too fast then. FCTM says you should have a 10kt speed decay in the flare

[safetypee]

AerocatS2A, “… you are better off correcting the underlying fault in your technique rather than adding an extra something to try and make it work.“
:ok:

gnarlberg, you might be seriously misleading yourself. Comparing your perceptions with statistical analysis might add at least 200ft to your impressions.
Also, that the landing performance is based on a reduction in speed of ~ 7 kts (according to type) during the flare, thus a higher speed increases landing distance and tends towards extending the flare, again increasing landing distance.

[OPL]

Flare by looking at the far end of the runway, and just judge your sink rate as normal (looking at changing runway perspective and the runway edge lines/runway edge lights) to minimise sink and touchdown in the zone.

I hope this helps. your method work well,
Can you explain the phrase above about lookout during and before the flare
thanks

[zone]

Zone, if actual surface wind is higher than enterd then GS mini will increase Vapp but that doesn't increase Landing distance because the ground speed will be same as calculated before. Only thing is close thrust first and flare less. Why reduce GS mini protection by entering higher winds?
I understand your point, but appreciate it will increase landing distance if you float.(short runway) You would be surprised at how some don’t see the extra energy simply because they are on the Magenta Speed target, and flare too high, too much, carry too much speed etc.

[vilas]

I understand your point, but appreciate it will increase landing distance if you float.(short runway) You would be surprised at how some don’t see the extra energy simply because they are on the Magenta Speed target, and flare too high, too much, carry too much speed etc.
Flare and touchdown is a visual judgment manoeuvre. You adjust the inputs by watching the actual result. If someone doesn't have the judgment and is trying to execute it mechanically then GS mini is not at fault and should not be tinkered.

[Uplinker]

your method work well,
Can you explain the phrase above about lookout during and before the flare
thanks




If you look towards the far end of the runway while flaring, you can perceive your rate of descent as a changing angle to the runway. You will see the runway edges or edge lights moving upwards in your peripheral vision.

If, instead, you look at your landing spot on the runway, you cannot see this changing angle so easily, which makes it harder to judge your rate of descent.

[AviatorDave]

If you look towards the far end of the runway while flaring, you can perceive your rate of descent as a changing angle to the runway. You will see the runway edges or edge lights moving upwards in your peripheral vision.

If, instead, you look at your landing spot on the runway, you cannot see this changing angle so easily, which makes it harder to judge your rate of descent.

I find it interesting that these basics apparently need thorough discussion here, on a professional pilots forum.

[AerocatS2A]

Sometimes it’s just a language thing. Though I do recall flying with someone in a C152 who would look out the side window at the main gear to judge the touchdown :ugh:

[Banana Joe]

It is a language thing, indeed. At the beginning of my training I could not land at all, either I would flare too high or too low. Looking at the end of the runway was not working for me. It was only when another instructor told me to look down the runway that all started working out.

[easymxp]

It is a language thing, indeed. At the beginning of my training I could not land at all, either I would flare too high or too low. Looking at the end of the runway was not working for me. It was only when another instructor told me to look down the runway that all started working out.

I agree. Never worked looking at the far end, too much static. Obviously neither in front of my nose. I look down the runway halfway to three quarters.

[Dan Winterland]

Best advice - don't ask for advice on an anonymous internet forum! You don't know who is posting and what bad habits they have picked up along the way. Or even for that matter, if they have only flown it on PC sims. With 8000 hours on the 320 series, I would say that some of the advice here is not the best. For example - what engines? The landing technique is slightly different for the two types. Take advice from your instructors and learn through experience. I have never had any real issues landing the A320. Yes, it's slightly different to more conventional control aircraft, but it doesn't present that many issues and is a safe aircraft right up to the crosswind limit.

[Oddball77]

your method work well,
Can you explain the phrase above about lookout during and before the flare
thanks


I think he means look at the end of the RWY during the flare.

[John Citizen]

Can you explain the phrase above about lookout during and before the flare
thanks

At about 100' focus at the very far end of the runway and maintain this focus (continue to stare at the very far end of the runway) until touchdown. This will be the best way to assess the commencement of the flare, the initial backpressure movement required to reduce the rate of descent. This will also be the best way to assess the sink rate during the flare and adjust backpressure as required to minimise sink rate.

If you focus on the very far end of the runway, you can easily the determine the sink rate, and determine whether you are still descending, climbing (ballooning), or descending rapidly or slowly. You then just adjust the back pressure as required.

If you focus on the pavement immediately in front of you (the same way as you might when driving a vehicle, or as you might on takeoff) you will not be able to judge the sink rate so accurately. You must consciously force yourself to stare at the very far end of the runway, which might be different to the normal scan/focus (daily automatic focus) when driving a vehicle.

By focusing far ahead, you will have less tendency to perhaps flare too early (due to seeing the ground rush), or over flare, as you won't notice the ground rush/streaming so rapidly towards you as you descend towards it.

Up until 100', you should be focusing on the aim point.

After 100', focus on the end of the runway.

I hope this helps, and enjoy your landings.

[John Citizen]

Best advice - don't ask for advice on an anonymous internet forum! You don't know who is posting …... Or even for that matter, if they have only flown it on PC sims

I have over 10 years (maybe 9,000 hours) on a real A320.

Take advice from your instructors

Sorry, I might not be your instructor, but I am actually passing on advice from my own company (a real A320) instructor which has worked well for me. I found this advice good and so I hope to assist others.

You don't know who is posting and what bad habits they have picked up along the way

This advice was given to me on day 1 of line training (from a company instructor in a real A320) and I have not developed any bad habits by changing my way since day 1. My advice is from my instructor and not something I made up myself.

[AerocatS2A]

100’ seems a little early to be transitioning to looking at the end of the runway, but hey, whatever work for you.

[Check Airman]

I also fly a real A320. I try to avoid the fake ones as much as possible, but the training department won’t allow me to escape.

[John Citizen]

I also fly a real A320

Yes, a real A320 compared, to a PC SIM A320 as someone else mentioned on here. This is the A320 type I was talking about when I said "real A320".

[misd-agin]

100’ seems a little early to be transitioning to looking at the end of the runway, but hey, whatever work for you.

100' is WAY too early. Drive that sucker down, when you start the flare is when you start shifting your vision forward and using peripheral vision to sense your rate of sink. With the nose up some sink rate is good. Don't try for zero sink as a new guy. It's much worse leveling off high vs landing with a sink rate slightly higher than the experienced guys do. After several months your landings will improve.

[noptawat]

Hello,

Just finish my A320 type rating and base training,
Any advices about the A320 landing techniques, especially the flare, and the effect of weight and wind.
still confuse how I should deal with it on A320 ..

Regards


Just a normal A320-200 right?

With typical landing weight of around 57 to 61 Tons a landing would be exactly the same. LOVE THE FLY-BY-WIRE !

for ILS : be reminded to centered your FD once your disengage an autopilot

500 RA: look out side see the picture compared diamond and ILS track and wind on the top-left of your ND.

350 LAND mode : disengage fly centered FD. Check the rate . See out side keep the picture

200 RA: look outside Aiming ZONE. Keep your rate ( typical around 700 fpm for STD 5.2% wind +-5kts)

100 RA: look far away at the end of rwy in order to assess the sink of your A/C (Keep rate! DO NOT duck under or FWD side stick)

50 RA : be prepared LOLS and wings level please!

40 RA: check a little bit on your side stick by simply pull just little bro // AC will response see the picture outside sink will be less laaa

30 RA: If you can control the rate just CUT THE POWER TO IDLE + then FLARE

20 RA : FLARE

10 RA 5 RA ..... Smooth


for INITIAL it's better to Flare earlier than too late flare !!!!

Do not attempt to get a smooth landing by just pull pull pull pull => Tail-strike

Late flare may leads to hard-landing !

Good luck

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