Airbus 320 - own headset

[dcoded]

Hi all,

As I understand it, Airbus chose to certify the aircraft together with only a handful of headsets, is this correct?
I was looking to buy a Bose A20 to use since I found the 320 quite loud and tiresome if you spend 10+ hr duties in it.
But as it turns out now, even though the Bose headsets are FAA/E TSO certified and are available with the 5-pin XLR (Airbus) plug, you are not allowed to use them in the 320 cockpit?

One very close friend of mine works in Lufthansa, and he said they are now evaluating a replacement headset for the standard Sennheiser HD26, and one candidate they are doing trials with is the Bose A20.
My question is, how does Lufthansa get around the certification issue with the Bose headset?
He was not able to answer it, but maybe some one here can shed some light?

Thanks

[FlightDetent]

Do you keep your present headset on for the whole flight duration? What are your intentions for the A20 in this regard?

[EGPFlyer]

I don’t think the airbus list is exhaustive and the only copy I can find is really old. In my company providing the headset is certified for use, either by EASA or the FAA then it’s good to use

[dcoded]

Do you keep your present headset on for the whole flight duration? What are your intentions for the A20 in this regard?
Yes, I intend to keep the headset on throughout the flight, for the sake of my hearing.
On a side note, in Lufthansa the majority of pilots on the 320 keep them on. But I know in majority of the carriers in Europe, people tend to take them off. It seems almost like an Airbus pilot's mantra "Fl 100, headsets off" I just can't understand it.
You need to shout to hear each other or lean over the pedestal to hear what the other is saying.

It's a personal choice, but for me I can't stand the noise and the speaker on the 320 is horrible. I want to have crisp hearing over the age of 50.

Sorry for the rant. But it feels like I am an outsider wanting to keep the headsets on.

[dcoded]

I don’t think the airbus list is exhaustive and the only copy I can find is really old. In my company providing the headset is certified for use, either by EASA or the FAA then it’s good to use

Yes, the list is old and not exhaustive. But since there is a list, and its an official documentation from Airbus, I can't see how your company gets around it?
Yes, even though the headset is TSO approved, it is not approved by the aircraft manufacturer.

Why I am asking is:
The word from our fleet office is that it is forbidden, because such a list exist.

[Check Airman]

dcoded

You're not an outsider. I keep mine on for the majority of the flight, as do the other pilots who want to prevent hearing loss.

My company allows any TSO headset. I recently flew with someone who had an A20. The plane had the 2 pin plug, and he needed an adapter for the plug. Bose sent it to him.

FYI Bose is releasing a Proflight series 2 headset this month, which is also TSO approved. Less noise reduction but much smaller than the A20.

Protect your hearing.

[FlightDetent]

Sorry for the rant. No biggie, make yourself comfortable.

---- edit ----
Having checked the Proflight 2: One may want to consider how are these to be replaced after donning the oxy mask.

[Jonty]

News to me. I have been using my A20 in the A320 for quite a number of years now.

[CaptainMongo]

No biggie, make yourself comfortable.

---- edit ----
Having checked the Proflight 2: One may want to consider how are these to be replaced after donning the oxy mask.


Since I don’t use a headset, what is the issue you are referring to?

Also do not the immediate actions (O2 usage) cover all possibilities wrt communications when using a personal TSO’d headset or minitel?

[FlightDetent]

Maybe I am seeing things, but it does not look very convenient to put on with a mask on. If that needs to be done quickly. Anyways, my presence here is not appropriate - company-issued Telex 750 user.

On a lighter note, who would have thought personal headset comfort is linked to auto thrust use habits? (not specifically mentioned, but the dots are all here).

[Check Airman]

Maybe I am seeing things, but it does not look very convenient to put on with a mask on. If that needs to be done quickly. Anyways, my presence here is not appropriate - company-issued Telex 750 user.

On a lighter note, who would have thought personal headset comfort is linked to auto thrust use habits? (not specifically mentioned, but the dots are all here).
lol. What? How'd you get autothrust habits out of this discussion?

Somewhat eerie, as my preference is for manual thrust :D

[EGPFlyer]

Our manual says that headsets in the list are definitely compliant but if we use a headset not in the list then we must ensure it is compliant with FAA TSO C139 or the EASA equivalent. We also have a deal with Bose for discounted headsets (A20 or proflight) organised by the company which is the 2nd biggest A320 operator in the world.

Maybe see if you can get your flight ops dept to check with airbus? I honestly think they would be told to use whichever headset they wanted.

[sekmeth]

My company does not allow the A20 on our flightdeck. Reason being the flight ops department is afraid that warning from the FWC over the speaker, are also filtered out. Ignorance..

[dcoded]

Maybe I am seeing things, but it does not look very convenient to put on with a mask on. If that needs to be done quickly. Anyways, my presence here is not appropriate - company-issued Telex 750 user.

On a lighter note, who would have thought personal headset comfort is linked to auto thrust use habits? (not specifically mentioned, but the dots are all here).

haha! What a funny observation.
but sorry to break your theory. When ever I get the first vector on approach, I turn AT, FD off and fly manually. No Bird of course. ❤️✌️

Thanks for for all your inputs, I will try to speak to fleet office,

[Check Airman]

My company does not allow the A20 on our flightdeck. Reason being the flight ops department is afraid that warning from the FWC over the speaker, are also filtered out. Ignorance..

Have the people in your flight ops dept ever been in an A320 cockpit with a bose headset? Do they know how ANR works?

[FlightDetent]

dcoded Check Airman Thank you for confirming my theory, that mostly manual thrust pilots prefer to wear their (ANC?) headsets at all times. Lufty is also habitually athr OFF for all approaches, I hear. That is 3 pieces of cake.

Now somebody find out about the BA's daily routine, who are mandated for A/THR ON.

[safelife]

Thomas Cook is going to equip their A320ies with David Clark DC PRO XA headsets. Currently on a test run. Very quiet.

[Check Airman]

dcoded Check Airman Thank you for confirming my theory, that mostly manual thrust pilots prefer to wear their (ANC?) headsets at all times. Lufty is also habitually athr OFF for all approaches, I hear. That is 3 pieces of cake.

Now somebody find out about the BA's daily routine, who are mandated for A/THR ON.

Hm. Now you're going to make me pay attention to that when I fly.

Sounds like a good candidate for this website, that lists a few spurious correlations.

https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

[Global Aviator]

Did someone say the flight deck is loud and you have to shout to be heard???

Even at 330kts in a high speed climb or descent it’s not that loud!!!

Protecting ones hearing is certainly numero uno but let’s not be over exaggerating.

When I played in the 320 had my own personal, for comfort and hygiene really.

ANR is certainly good but despite what I’ve seen written here some types of headsets certainly do cut out a little bit to much noise, again despite how they are meant to work. I do find it funny though guys throwing on GA size headsets...

[Check Airman]

Global Aviator

Some airplanes are louder than others. Maybe you're lucky to have a fleet of quiet airframes, but there's considerable variation in cockpit noise at my airline. I wouldn't go as far as saying I have to shout, but I do have to raise my voice when the other pilot is "topless".

You said the ANR sets cut out too much noise. What specific noises are you concerned about?

To your last point on GA sized headsets, you'll probably see them for 3 reasons:

- already owned a good headest
- the current GA headsets are quite comfortable for long periods
- being designed for louder environments, they're quieter than the "jet" headsets

[goeasy]

Headset compatibility, isn't just with the aircraft but with the other headset too. I bought a Sennheiser headset for this reason, and find that others using the Bose headset with add on mic, gives me no side-tone when they transmit. Therefore I only hear ATC reply after the call.

This is why many airlines are restrictive on different headset mixes. Just sad that Sennheiser have dropped out of the game.

[Weapons Grade]

Did someone say the flight deck is loud and you have to shout to be heard???

Even at 330kts in a high speed climb or descent it’s not that loud!!!

Protecting ones hearing is certainly numero uno but let’s not be over exaggerating.

When I played in the 320 had my own personal, for comfort and hygiene really.

ANR is certainly good but despite what I’ve seen written here some types of headsets certainly do cut out a little bit to much noise, again despite how they are meant to work. I do find it funny though guys throwing on GA size headsets...
Some things to ponder:
The A320 flight deck, whilst on the ground with A/C packs on, and speakers low, has an ambient noise level of +82db (and higher when there is audio output from the speakers).
Most responsible government medical departments' input to work, health and safety work environs ambient noise level should be less than 80db continuously, and less than 82db for no more than 2 hours.
Whilst in flight, in level cruise at FL350, the cockpit ambient noise (again with speakers on) approaches 86db BEFORE the bells and whistles, and audio from the speakers.
Airbus regularly promulgate SILs (Service Information Letters) pertaining to ATA chapter equipment. SIL 023-005 refers to approved headsets for the Airbus family. The current SIL has been superseded by ISI 23.51.0003 - refers to approved headsets.
To protect what hearing remains, I use Sennheiser ANRs and leave them on for the duration of flight (flight deck preparation through the parking checklist).

[nnc0]

I've often wondered, given the size of the market, why Bose just don't pursue an STC for their headsets. I came to suspect they did but found that they couldn't pass the test criteria for some reason - eg are there any aurals that don't go through the headset?

[hans brinker]

I've often wondered, given the size of the market, why Bose just don't pursue an STC for their headsets. I came to suspect they did but found that they couldn't pass the test criteria for some reason - eg are there any aurals that don't go through the headset?

Ahem, they have an aviation headset:

https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/headphones/aviation_headsets/a20-aviation-headset/buy.html


Sells pretty well for $1K, not really sure what their motivation would be to get a $300 headset approved...

[pilottolip]

Has anyone got the experience to do a comparison between the DC ProX2 / ProFlight2 / Telex Airman 8+? I'd appreciate it!!

[Amadis of Gaul]

Yes, I intend to keep the headset on throughout the flight, for the sake of my hearing.
On a side note, in Lufthansa the majority of pilots on the 320 keep them on. But I know in majority of the carriers in Europe, people tend to take them off. It seems almost like an Airbus pilot's mantra "Fl 100, headsets off" I just can't understand it.
You need to shout to hear each other or lean over the pedestal to hear what the other is saying.

Sounds like your hearing is gone already.

[EUops]

Yes, I intend to keep the headset on throughout the flight, for the sake of my hearing.
On a side note, in Lufthansa the majority of pilots on the 320 keep them on. But I know in majority of the carriers in Europe, people tend to take them off. It seems almost like an Airbus pilot's mantra "Fl 100, headsets off" I just can't understand it.
You need to shout to hear each other or lean over the pedestal to hear what the other is saying.

It's a personal choice, but for me I can't stand the noise and the speaker on the 320 is horrible. I want to have crisp hearing over the age of 50.

Sorry for the rant. But it feels like I am an outsider wanting to keep the headsets on.

Agree 100%, but what to do when the other pilot doesn't own a noise canceling headset? But for sure it makes a difference, I feel less tired after a flight with headsets on than without.

[Check Airman]

Agree 100%, but what to do when the other pilot doesn't own a noise canceling headset? But for sure it makes a difference, I feel less tired after a flight with headsets on than without.
With a headset with good ANR, you can let the other guy go deaf while you keep yours on. You'll still be able to hear him/her speak.

[pineteam]

It’s loud at low level but above FL250 it’s not that bad. Not sure how accurate is the Apple watch but I never get a noise level over 80 db on the A320 at high altitude. It’s around 76 db.

[Check Airman]

It’s loud at low level but above FL250 it’s not that bad. Not sure how accurate is the Apple watch but I never get a noise level over 80 db on the A320 at high altitude. It’s around 76 db.

NIOSH produces a sound level meter that's tailored to the iphone if you're interested.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/app.html

I know more about airplanes than ear diseases, but even if the cockpit is at 76db, being in that environment for thousands of hours doesn't seem like a smart move.

[pineteam]

Thanks. According to the APP anything below 80db should not be a problem. But I hear you.. Still can for now lol.. I just can’t stand these headsets for the whole flight..

[nervous novice]

Does anyone have any info on the plantronics in ear headset?

[MD83FO]

Why did Senheisser stop making aviation headsets?

[Flying Wild]

Why did Senheisser stop making aviation headsets?
“Our decision to leave the pilots’ headset sector was not taken lightly, especially as we have played a key role in the development of audio transmission in the cockpit, for example by introducing the world’s first headset with active noise compensation to receive FAA-TSO certification,” said Peter Claussen, Sennheiser’s chief operating officer, in a news release. “We will redirect our aviation-specific resources to focus on our key business of headphone and microphone technology.”
From a press release in 2015

[Superpilot]

I've said this before...For Airbus, there is currently no requirement to use a STCd or TSOd headset. The subject matter was pulled from all documents and the last circular for "approved" headsets is almost 20 years old. From an aircraft point of view, a headset is a consumer of audio signals arriving at the comms jacks in the same way a phone/laptop/tablet charger or vacuum cleaner is a consumer of electrical power from the power sockets. We don't see anyone getting over excited about TSOd electrical devices. A headset is not a permanent fixture and is not going to fry the circuitory.

Do what you need in order to protect your ears. If they want you to use a crappy Telex Airman, kick off and complain to your responsible person for occupational health. This alone will invite a debate and force your Chief Pilot to ask Airbus formally where the reply will be "we don't offer any opinion".

[Check Airman]

My company makes a fuss over safety vests on the ramp, where I may get hurt without one, but they don't seem to care an ounce about ANR headsets in the cockpit, where I will get hurt without one.

[Superpilot]

I am lucky in that most of the airlines I've been at (a lot) have been OK with one using their own headset. The few airlines that banned it had management pilots who were old and deaf anyway.

[oceancrosser]

My company makes a fuss over safety vests on the ramp, where I may get hurt without one, but they don't seem to care an ounce about ANR headsets in the cockpit, where I will get hurt without one.

Because one is an insurance matter, the other one is on you!