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evilroy
18th Aug 2019, 02:14
I was listening to a podcast where a Thunderbirds pilot was briefing his passenger and said that the command words for ejection would be "Bailout! Bailout! Bailout!". I did a little research and see that this has been in USAF use since at least 2017.... but I cannot find when it changed or why.

Anyone know? It seems the USN still use "Eject! Eject! Eject!", which is what I was taught.

Cheers!

Lonewolf_50
18th Aug 2019, 03:07
Yes, you are correct, the Martin Baker ejection seat is the global standard.
Eject is correct terminology: the USAF have it wrong yet again. :E (USN myself .... )
We had a talk about that a year or so ago. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/619505-usaf-looks-new-ejector-seat.html?highlight=eject#post10420253)

The powder blue folk also refer to a head as a cranium and a box as a container.

West Coast
18th Aug 2019, 03:45
But what do the call windows, door and walls in the USAF LW?

Timelord
18th Aug 2019, 09:22
My Martin Baker moment came in 1995 in the back seat of a USAF trained Dutch pilot. He said “Bailout, Bailout” . I knew what he meant!

F-16GUY
18th Aug 2019, 09:43
In the F-16 community we differentiate between the command to eject which is "Bailout, Bailout, Bailout", and the word "eject" which is used when talking about ejection in preparation for the event. This is to avoid confusion having the pax prematurely pull the handle when the pilots intent was only to prepare for it. Kind of the same as the difference between the term ready for departure and cleared for take-off.

Old-Duffer
18th Aug 2019, 10:03
F-16GUY, that's a useful explanation of using different words to avoid any misunderstanding, providing everybody is aware of the difference. However, perhaps there is a need for standard terminology, particularly given the wide spread of ejection seats across military aviation in all corners of the world. There are many stories (true and fanciful) of ejection commands being misheard or the wrong person exiting an aircraft.

Old Duffer

Doctor Cruces
18th Aug 2019, 10:05
Presumably not using the word eject when briefing for a pre meditated ejection is too difficult for the USAF then?

MPN11
18th Aug 2019, 10:10
So aircrew now sit on a 'bailout' seat?

As an outside I find that terminology hugely confusing!

Nige321
18th Aug 2019, 10:17
Surely it would be better to talk of 'Bailout' duing the foreplay then 'Eject' for the event itself...:}

F-16GUY
18th Aug 2019, 10:20
Presumably not using the word eject when briefing for a pre meditated ejection is too difficult for the USAF then?

And the EPAF countries and all the other non native english speakers who fly the F-16 around the world.....

I think it makes good sense.

-We will have to use the ejection seat shortly if the engine does not relight
-I want you to establish the propper seating position for ejection
-Check that you are properly strapped in for ejection

If you have ever flown with inexperienced pax in the backseat of a fighter, you would know how overwhelmed they tend to be on the first few rides, and how much of their normal capacity is lost once they are strapped in and the canopy is closed. Furthermore, with all the noises in the cockpit, it would be fairly easy to miss hear what was said in those 3 sentences above, especially in a situation where one i scared shitless.

F-16GUY
18th Aug 2019, 10:25
Surely it would be better to talk of 'Bailout' duing the foreplay then 'Eject' for the event itself...:}

Sure....

-I want you to pull the bailout handle.
-Remember the manual seat man separation handle in case the bailout seat fails.

By the way, I'm european and not american.

josephfeatherweight
18th Aug 2019, 10:49
Interesting how different forces have different ideas on this.
The RAAF talk about "abandoning" during the foreplay (nice, Nige321) and then "eject" when it's time to pull the handle.
Eg, "Looks like we're going to have to abandon, Bloggs. Practice the correct posture, make sure you straps and chin strap are tight and visors down. Are you ready? EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!"
I do, however, see what F-16GUY is getting at - the main thing is continuity throughout your training.

Timelord
18th Aug 2019, 11:19
“If we need to abandon the aircraft I will say the E word three times”

Tankertrashnav
18th Aug 2019, 11:54
When ordering the abandonment on the Victor (and presumably also Valiant and Vulcan which had the same set up) the command was "Emergency parachute, jump, jump". We three down the back did not have ejection seats of course and had to jump for it, before (hopefully) the two pilots banged out, presumably without any further command from the captain. All I know is that given the poor survival rate for rear crew abandonments on V Aircraft I am very pleased never to have put the procedure into practice.

charliegolf
18th Aug 2019, 11:58
“If we need to abandon the aircraft I will say the E word three times”

Act immediately... the second 2 will be echoes! I wonder if a briefer actually said that. I do hope so.

tmmorris
18th Aug 2019, 12:26
Tutor T1 - cadets are told to 'prepare to abandon the aircraft' followed by 'jump jump'.

Is that not also the correct procedure before 'eject eject'?

SASless
18th Aug 2019, 13:35
I was listening to a podcast where a Thunderbirds pilot was briefing his passenger and said that the command words for ejection would be "Bailout! Bailout! Bailout!".

Could it be as simple as establishing a common terminology that fits aircraft like the C-135, KC-10, C-130, C-17....etc as well as Fighters?

In the old days...while flying in C-119's....every passenger was fitted with a parachute and given enough instruction about its use to prepare them for an emergency exit of the aircraft.

These days that probably is no longer the policy.

I would suggest if you are sitting in an Ejection Seat....and the order to "Bailout" is heard....you might just be able to figure it out with just a bit of thinking particularly when it is a Command Controlled Ejection where the Rear Seater departs first followed by the Front Seater.

LOMCEVAK
18th Aug 2019, 13:35
An interesting thread. For those who have the opportunity to fly occasionally with different operators and different nations, there certainly is scope for making a cognitive error and ejecting inadvertently if ambiguous or unintuitive wording is used.

One aspect that has not yet been discussed is aircraft that have a command ejection system whereby one person pulls the handle and both seats fire. If an immediate ejection is necessary, how does the person who first decides to pull the handle warn the person in the other cockpit? I always brief to try, time permitting, to call 'Ejecting' as you pull the handle. But that is a personal SOP and not a promulgated one where I fly.

Barksdale Boy
18th Aug 2019, 13:58
For Vulcan rear crew I seem to remember "Abandon aircraft; jump; jump; jump", with some mention of static line or manual override as appropriate.

Easy Street
18th Aug 2019, 14:28
An interesting thread. For those who have the opportunity to fly occasionally with different operators and different nations, there certainly is scope for making a cognitive error and ejecting inadvertently if ambiguous or unintuitive wording is used.

One aspect that has not yet discussed is aircraft that have a command ejection system whereby one person pulls the handle and both seats fire. If an immediate ejection is necessary, how does the person who first decides to pull the handle warn the person in the other cockpit? I always brief to try, time permitting, to call 'Ejecting' as you pull the handle. But that is a personal SOP and not a promulgated one where I fly.

On Tornados there were essentially 3 levels of preparedness:

1) Carry out the ‘Abandoning’ drill from the checklist. This culminated in a call of ‘EJECT EJECT EJECT’ with the teaching being to pull the handle immediately after the third call. The checklist stated that it was preferable for the pilot to pull the handle if circumstances permitted; my best guess at why is that this would assure ejection of both crew, regardless of the command eject setting.

2) If there wasn’t time to prepare fully, either occupant could call ‘EJECT EJECT EJECT’ at any time and pull their handle. This gave a momentary warning to the other crew member to adopt the ejection posture.

3) In extremis you would just pull the handle and hope that you both made it...

The publications all distinguished between the general act of ‘abandoning’ and the specific act of ‘ejecting’. The only time the E-word should have been used was if you were going to pull the handle* but the threefold repetition helped to distinguish between a real command and an inadvertent mention of the E-word (for instance during the takeoff brief).

* I’ve just remembered there was a checklist prompt for the ‘command eject’ setting in the Pre-Takeoff and After Landing checks, which the rear-seater read out: so the (single) E-word was said at least twice per sortie. Context is everything!!

OK465
18th Aug 2019, 15:41
In the Phantom the selector valve control was called the 'Command Selector Handle' and the checklist action was 'to rotate or not rotate the handle', no use of the term 'command eject' on the ground. I preferred the 'not rotate' philosophy, but it was a front seater option. (Hours of single-seat hubris.)

You certainly would never have an 'orientation flight' rider or VIP even touch it. As F-16GUY says these folks generally are just 'hanging on' and hoping they won't have to use the 'bag'.

But back to the original discussion of USAF v Navy terminology. I believe there is also a significant difference in the Navy pre-eject vs USAF pre-bailout briefing for the 'time permitting' controlled 'ejection/bailout/We hereby relinquish all connection to and responsibility for the machine' situation. The final briefing item:

The USAF terminology is "I will see you in the bar."

The Navy says "I will see you in the raft." :}

pontifex
18th Aug 2019, 15:50
TTN,
When just rotated in one of our funships one dawn T/O you may remember when a flock of seaguls was collected. All four donks wavered a bit but still kept going. The AEO (bless has cottons) said calmly "Captain please remember I removed your pins". So there was no doubt in any of the crew's minds as to what executive order would have been given. It would have been without doubt "BAILOUT" times 3. I don't think the co-pilot would have needed any order!

Ewan Whosearmy
18th Aug 2019, 18:55
What's the RAF terminology for getting out of the jet quick-sharp on the ground?

I posted in the original thread on this (Lonewolgf linked to it in post #2), but the main reason (as it was explained to me) that the USAF goes with "Bailout" is because they use "Egress" on the ground. There was a fatality (1980s I think), where the A/C called for an "egress" as he was unstrapping, but the WSO heard "eject" and pulled the handles.

weemonkey
18th Aug 2019, 19:00
And the EPAF countries and all the other non native english speakers who fly the F-16 around the world.....

I think it makes good sense.

-We will have to use the ejection seat shortly if the engine does not relight
-I want you to establish the propper seating position for ejection
-Check that you are properly strapped in for ejection

If you have ever flown with inexperienced pax in the backseat of a fighter, you would know how overwhelmed they tend to be on the first few rides, and how much of their normal capacity is lost once they are strapped in and the canopy is closed. Furthermore, with all the noises in the cockpit, it would be fairly easy to miss hear what was said in those 3 sentences above, especially in a situation where one i scared shitless.

So what happens if/ when the driver is incapacitated between the EJECT bit and the BAILOUT COMMAND??

Or Vice Versa even??? :E



On the positive side it probably got someone a well deserved promotion.

Timelord
18th Aug 2019, 20:34
What's the RAF terminology for getting out of the jet quick-sharp on the ground?

I posted in the original thread on this (Lonewolgf linked to it in post #2), but the main reason (as it was explained to me) that the USAF goes with "Bailout" is because they use "Egress" on the ground. There was a fatality (1980s I think), where the A/C called for an "egress" as he was unstrapping, but the WSO heard "eject" and pulled the handles.

I’m pretty sure we (Buccaneer and Tornado) used: “Emergency ground egress GO”

Timelord
18th Aug 2019, 21:17
I think there was a discussion about this a while ago, but in a 2 seat aircraft with zero zero ejection seats, the moment you switch from an ejection option to an emergency ground egress has to be clearly defined and understood. It’s no good having one putting the pins in and unstrapping while the other pulls the handle as, I believe, has happened.

Doctor Cruces
18th Aug 2019, 21:37
And the EPAF countries and all the other non native english speakers who fly the F-16 around the world.....

I think it makes good sense.

-We will have to use the ejection seat shortly if the engine does not relight
-I want you to establish the propper seating position for ejection
-Check that you are properly strapped in for ejection

If you have ever flown with inexperienced pax in the backseat of a fighter, you would know how overwhelmed they tend to be on the first few rides, and how much of their normal capacity is lost once they are strapped in and the canopy is closed. Furthermore, with all the noises in the cockpit, it would be fairly easy to miss hear what was said in those 3 sentences above, especially in a situation where one i scared shitless.

Good point!

NutLoose
19th Aug 2019, 00:17
I suppose it's something to do with not confusing eject with something similar, rather like British ships of old shouting shoot for the main guns as opposed to fire, thus avoiding any confusion with warnings the ship is on fire during combat.


Mind you, bailout might have naval aviators looking for the bucket ;)

Tankertrashnav
19th Aug 2019, 00:39
Pontifex - funnily enough I was thinking of that incident only the other day when that Russian Airbus had a very short trip before ending up in a field. If only it had been fitted with Sapphires there would have been no problem!

tartare
19th Aug 2019, 03:49
So when you come to do the deed - how far out does the handle come - does it hit a stop?
Is the `bang' virtually instantaneous?

Two things focused my mind.
Putting the pins in the little holder thingy (don't drop them Pike) yep - this seat is now live.
And with the jet on the brakes - hearing in my helmet "...if we have engine failure on take off, I shall call Eject, Eject, Eject..."

Just This Once...
19th Aug 2019, 08:23
On Tornados there were essentially 3 levels of preparedness:

1) Carry out the ‘Abandoning’ drill from the checklist. This culminated in a call of ‘EJECT EJECT EJECT’ with the teaching...


Reasonably certain LOMCEVAK can remember the Tornado procedures, save for flying FJ types with 2 seats but no trainer option, 2 seats that may or may not have a trainer option in the back, pure single-seat only, normally single-seat but with 2-seat version all in a mix with different seating arrangements, different users, nations and languages. Plenty opportunity for confusion.

I used to think that the urgency and tone was a major part of an ejection call, until a crew on a dark night in a Tornado over the water that went something like this:

[Background of lots of front-rear-front comms and FRC shuffling by rear seat pilot as CWP lights danced around faster than ever experienced in the sim...]

Front seat: "... [calm voice] ... oh and I have no control, err no... no control... we eject... yes..."

Rear seat: Looks up briefly from paper-and-thumb frenzy "... [quizzical tone]...err.. you're kidding me..."

Cue big bang and blinding flash of rockets in front of him, followed by a bigger and more painful bang with head/face/palm/FRC/thigh all trying to occupy the same space.

Timelord
19th Aug 2019, 10:01
So when you come to do the deed - how far out does the handle come - does it hit a stop?
Is the `bang' virtually instantaneous?

Two things focused my mind.
Putting the pins in the little holder thingy (don't drop them Pike) yep - this seat is now live.
And with the jet on the brakes - hearing in my helmet "...if we have engine failure on take off, I shall call Eject, Eject, Eject..."

The handle comes out about 3-4 inches and stops. Then there is a pause of a fraction of a second (which feels like about 10 minutes) before things start happening. Probably the canopy going first. Most ground schools and sims have seats that you can practice on.

Ewan Whosearmy
19th Aug 2019, 12:02
OK465

This may have been the incident in question (31:46 on the video):

https://youtu.be/wRgNVpCi6rY?t=1904

SASless
19th Aug 2019, 13:14
Warning: Thread Drift!

Then the Chinook Pilot story a minute or so later....about the offer to rescue a downed Air Force Pilot who landed in the middle of a retreating Iraqi Republican Guard Armored Division.

No confusion involved in that account.

OK465
19th Aug 2019, 16:16
EW

Thanks for the video. Gruesome incident.

If I'd been a WSO, I think I would have preferred the pilot who didn't want the handle rotated (rear seat command ejection option)....and relieved me of any burden for firing (or misfiring) the high powered pyrotechnic device he was sitting on.

bobward
20th Aug 2019, 07:04
We civvies driving spam cans obviously don't have these fearsome beasties.
However, between crew we do have a verbal shorthand to indicate 'levels of concern'.
Level 1; "That's odd";
Level 2: "I've never seen it do that before";
Level3: "Oh SH1T!!!!!"..

Obviously we can go straight to level3 should circumstances demand...….

BEagle
20th Aug 2019, 08:43
I recall seeing a Tugg cartoon in Flight Deck showing a looker who'd punched out of a 'Vixen descending on his 'chute whilst the cab continued on its merry way with a pole sticking out of the coal hole.

It went something like:
"I thought he said 'Eject!'"
"Bugger. He must have said 'Oh Shit!"
"OH SHIT!!"

After which pilots were advised to be more careful with their choice of expletives!

treadigraph
20th Aug 2019, 09:59
Heard a story years ago about a Jag T.2 taking off. Instructor thought the pupil looked a bit miserable and said "cheer up"; pupil misheard and raised the gear somewhat prematurely followed by the inevitable graunching noises. Any truth in that one? Sounds unlikely to me...

Runaway Gun
20th Aug 2019, 10:22
How did the instructor 'see' the student?

NutLoose
20th Aug 2019, 13:26
On my Jag flight he told me he would call eject eject and if I heard it the third time it would be an echo..

treadigraph
20th Aug 2019, 13:28
Exactly the sort of question to which I don't know the answer hence wondered if anyone knew the veracity of the story. Might have been another type but I recall it as a Jag.

JagRigger
20th Aug 2019, 13:43
On my Jag flight he told me he would call eject eject and if I heard it the third time it would be an echo..

Wasn't Wyn Evans was it ? - seem to recall that's what I got told too

BEagle
20th Aug 2019, 14:29
Wasn't Wyn Evans was it ? - seem to recall that's what I got told too

Top chap - Wyn was on my Gnat course. He once went into a shop in Llangefni and the locals did their usual trick of switching into Welsh and make disparaging remarks about the English.

Little did they know that Wyn was not only Welsh, but spoke the language fluently. So he listened to this for a while, but when he paid for whatever it was he was buying he conversed with the shopkeeper in Welsh before 'rebriefing' the ignorant local yokels who'd been insulting the English!

Bob Viking
20th Aug 2019, 14:51
Ah yes. The oft repeated story of the Welsh only speaking their own language to annoy the English.

I used to spout the same old rubbish until I met and married a Welsh girl (first language Welsh) and realised that it is just how they speak. Much like the French speak French. Or the Spanish speak Spanish. Or... You get the idea.

In any other world that would be regarded as (not so) casual racism.

But please keep the stories coming.

BV

SASless
20th Aug 2019, 15:08
As a Civil Air Patrol Cadet in the mid 1960's I was provided a flight in a Lockheed T-33 for being the winner of the Annual Competition in my State.

During the brief prior to flight....I was told by the Pilot that upon his determining the need to eject he would say...."Eject...Eject...Eject!".

He then added that if I spoke after hearing that Command I would talking to myself.

How far back do you want to take this line of chat?


Also....just because they were trying to be polite by speaking in their native language....does not change their evaluation of the "English".

Am I right to believe it is actually the Cornish that are English?

NutLoose
20th Aug 2019, 15:36
Nope, Steen? was the the person that took me up in a Jag.

As for Welsh, I did my eng training at St Athan and having quite a broad Cumbrian accident at the time, I was believed to be Welsh by the course and given the not so original nickname Taff...
Despite my remonstrations it remained and it turned out a blessing in disguise as i soon found out that as a "Welshman" one was preferred over the rest of the peasants by the local Rhondha Valley Commandos, something I took full advantage of...... Errm Boyo

SASless
20th Aug 2019, 15:44
Nutty.....you disguise the truth Sir.

Being the young naive Lad you were...you were the one that twas taken advantage of by the Commando's.....and you enjoyed every bit of it!

charliegolf
20th Aug 2019, 16:35
This thread has drifted. Had Wyn been really Welsh, the 'rebriefing' would be a synonym for 'joining in'! BV, you have gone up in my estimation- snagging a Welsh girl; and Nutty... it's Rhondda ( Double d sounded like a soft th sound; and 'Valley' is superfluous) but close enough!:ok:

CG

Lancman
20th Aug 2019, 17:37
In the early days of the RAF Britannia fleet the Captain’s pre take-off emergency briefing went something like this:-

“If any of us sees an engine failure or fire, or a major control malfunction before V1 he is to call “REJECT”. I will confirm by closing the throttles and you, Engineer, will select brake dwell on all engines and full reverse on the symmetrical remaining engines. You, Co-pilot will inform air traffic control and tell them to “Standby”. When the aircraft has come to a complete stop and the parking brake has been set we will deal with the problem. Any questions?”

When we became part of Strike Command the word came down that the word “REJECT” was not to be used in any RAF cockpit because of the risk of misunderstanding but the word “ABORT” was to be used instead. An ugly word but effective.

A further policy decision was then published that it was wrong for a Flight Engineer or a Co-pilot to issue an apparent instruction to a Captain and that in future he was to call out a short and accurate description of the symptoms only. Such as “Engine failure number 3”.

Many years later a well known Irish Nimrod Flight Engineer was handed a right bag of nails to sort out just short of V1 during his last simulator check before retirement and his call out was “Holy Mary Mother of God will you look at dat lot then!”. He passed the check.

I was rather taken a-back later when I started airline flying when I was briefed “Standard left. Did I miss anything?”

BEagle
20th Aug 2019, 18:32
OK, BV, believe what you will....:rolleyes:

Wyn told me exactly how it was. But you can choose to disbelieve me if you will. He came from South Wales and was bloody cross about the way those Angelsey Welsh behaved. But that was some 44 years ago - probably before you were born - and of course times have changed.

JENKINS
20th Aug 2019, 20:27
And Wyn(n) played rugby, a half back pairing with Hylton Price. A passing thought for both.

newt
20th Aug 2019, 20:32
I always briefed non aircrew passengers, lucky enough to be scared by flying with me........ If I call eject, eject, eject.....if you hear the third one......you will be on your own!!

Odanrot
20th Aug 2019, 22:50
Well as I’m here, prior to Tornado I always thought my feet passing his head was a good clue that I wasn’t happy.

When Tornado came in we started off being told that “Both” was the best selection, then, after “Whosh-Bang” pulled the handle when he thought he was going to die (can’t think of a better reason to pull it) we were ORDERED to select Rear, (nobody took any notice of that)

All of that said, in my aircraft it was EJECT EJECT EJECT. Unless you met a Jaguar going the other way, in which case it was “Hi Dim” and pull !




0

Bob Viking
21st Aug 2019, 04:35
You're right about one thing. Your friend’s story does predate me. By a year or two.

Actually you're right about two things. Times have indeed changed.

The problem with stories like that is that there is invariably more to it.

I am English but I am at least able to be non partisan when considering people’s attitudes. Did you ever stop to think why the ‘Anglesey Welsh’ allegedly disliked the English?

Probably for the same reason that a young Rhosneigr local would be well justified in disliking the English (well those from Cheshire and Manchester at least) nowadays.

It is for the exact reasons that you so ably demonstrated in your post. Arrogance.

In your case you merrily spread a 44 year old story as if it were historical fact. In others cases they treat the locals with total disdain and make no effort to acknowledge the fact that the Welsh language even exists. This is despite it being the only officially recognised language in the UK after English.

Now, of course, I realise you are never wrong and you will doubtless swipe my opinions aside as is your habit when someone dares to oppose your world view. However, when I read your story I don’t automatically think about the ‘stupid Welsh people’. I think of how embarrassed I am to be English at times. And, yes, I realise your friend was (South) Welsh. If you wish to use that as your reason to ignore my point then please continue. But I think we all know where you’re coming from.

As an aside, whilst I feel sure you regale the story exactly as told to you by your friend, I have heard that story repeated so many times from so many different people and have never encountered the phenomenon myself. What I have encountered is my wife, her entire family and all of her friends speaking their national language regardless of the presence of English people.

BV

🙄 (my eyes are rolling just as much as yours).

doubletap
21st Aug 2019, 05:51
You're right about one thing. Your friend’s story does predate me. By a year or two.

Actually you're right about two things. Times have indeed changed.

The problem with stories like that is that there is invariably more to it.

I am English but I am at least able to be non partisan when considering people’s attitudes. Did you ever stop to think why the ‘Anglesey Welsh’ allegedly disliked the English?

Probably for the same reason that a young Rhosneigr local would be well justified in disliking the English (well those from Cheshire and Manchester at least) nowadays.

It is for the exact reasons that you so ably demonstrated in your post. Arrogance.

In your case you merrily spread a 44 year old story as if it were historical fact. In others cases they treat the locals with total disdain and make no effort to acknowledge the fact that the Welsh language even exists. This is despite it being the only officially recognised language in the UK after English.

Now, of course, I realise you are never wrong and you will doubtless swipe my opinions aside as is your habit when someone dares to oppose your world view. However, when I read your story I don’t automatically think about the ‘stupid Welsh people’. I think of how embarrassed I am to be English at times. And, yes, I realise your friend was (South) Welsh. If you wish to use that as your reason to ignore my point then please continue. But I think we all know where you’re coming from.

As an aside, whilst I feel sure you regale the story exactly as told to you by your friend, I have heard that story repeated so many times from so many different people and have never encountered the phenomenon myself. What I have encountered is my wife, her entire family and all of her friends speaking their national language regardless of the presence of English people.

BV

🙄 (my eyes are rolling just as much as yours).

....Stockholm Syndrome

Timelord
21st Aug 2019, 09:33
This is amazing thread drift, but I visited the Valley area a couple of years ago for the first time, with these tales front and centre in my head. We stayed in a local hotel , the name of which I could not pronounce, run by a very local lady. We came back to the hotel one afternoon to find the landlady at reception speaking Welsh to another visitor. When they saw us walk in they switched to English.

BEagle
21st Aug 2019, 10:17
Anyway, Bob, what I did find amusing was listening to 'Jones the Motor' (as he was nicknamed), who ran the little garage in the village, conversing with one of the locals in Welsh. Except that every so often a technical term was in English. So there would be lots of lilting Welsh, then 'carburettor' or 'fuel pump' or whatever. Someone rather unkindly said that was because the Welsh didn't have words for anything modern, such as 'wheel' or 'fire' - a bit harsh, I thought.

Jones the Motor was a star though - one Friday afternoon the throttle cable in my MG Midget failed. I thought I'd have to wait until the following day and get a lift to Llanfair PG for a new one, which would have ruined my weekend in London. But after a few minutes of delving in his parts shed, out he came with the necessary!

Do many people stationed at Valley for any length of time make any effort to learn some Welsh? I certainly would have done.

Personally I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Valley, although the winter weather could be rather bleak.

Back to the thread about bang seats - I had a fascinating time visiting Martin-Baker last week. 'Eject' was the word everyone used, rather than 'Bailout'. Watching the 2 Meteors flying in idyllic weather was the icing on the cake! But the new F-35 seat and the clever auto-eject system was extremely interesting. The time between ejection and parachute deploy has been really cut down since the days of the old Mk2 'gunpowder' seat we had in the Hunter 6/9 and even surpasses the Mk10.

But why on earth didn't the RAF specify ejector seats for the Grob Prefect? Most other customers do..... If, perish the thought, there's ever a fatal accident due to no bang seats, heads should surely roll at the MoD!

ShyTorque
21st Aug 2019, 11:12
I used to tell my Bulldog students that I would say "JUMP JUMP JUMP!" but if they ever said "Pardon?" I had the word JUMP written on the soles of my boots.

Davef68
21st Aug 2019, 12:00
As an aside, whilst I feel sure you regale the story exactly as told to you by your friend, I have heard that story repeated so many times from so many different people and have never encountered the phenomenon myself. What I have encountered is my wife, her entire family and all of her friends speaking their national language regardless of the presence of English people.




A Welsh friend of mine from Cardiff told a similar story about meeting his future in-laws from Ceredigion, they discussed him in Welsh when he was in the next room, not realising he was fluent in the language. Fortunately, it was all positive!

I've personally seen it happen in both Welsh (I have Welsh family) and Scots Gaelic communities (also an officially recognised language BTW) . People conversing in English until someone they don't know appears, when they switch to the other language. It's as much about ensuring privacy as anything else.

Bob Viking
21st Aug 2019, 12:07
According to wikipedia (did you really think I wouldn’t check with the online font of all knowledge before making such a claim) I am right with regards to the recognition of the Welsh language. That’s why I wrote it that way.

BV

SASless
21st Aug 2019, 12:13
I suppose Scouse and Geordy are considered 'English"?

NutLoose
21st Aug 2019, 12:51
Well as I’m here, prior to Tornado I always thought my feet passing his head was a good clue that I wasn’t happy.

When Tornado came in we started off being told that “Both” was the best selection, then, after “Whosh-Bang” pulled the handle when he thought he was going to die (can’t think of a better reason to pull it) we were ORDERED to select Rear, (nobody took any notice of that)

All of that said, in my aircraft it was EJECT EJECT EJECT. Unless you met a Jaguar going the other way, in which case it was “Hi Dim” and pull !




0



Wasn't the selection from both changed after one met an A10? over the German plains and pulled up without warning the nav, who having being made aware about uncommanded control inputs at low level ( when one flew close to a transmitting mast ) ejected, thus taking the pilot who hadn't had time to warn him about the A10
? with him, from a perfectly servicable jet?..