M-B Meteors

[BEagle]

I was very privileged to attend a visit to Martin-Baker yesterday, which included their activities at Chalgrove aerodrome. Both Meteors flew, giving a polished exhibition of graceful formation flying. A wonderful sight (and sound)!

Are M-B's Meteors now the only airworthy examples still flying in the UK? Long may they continue to do so!

[treadigraph]

Thread on Spectators Balcony about Canberras seen over Oxford on Monday revealed that they were the M-B Meteors. The ex-Doug Arnold NF.11 G-LOSM/WM167 still has a valid permit though I believe it may now be inactive.

Do you know who was flying them?

[BEagle]

I do know who the pilots were, but it is inappropriate to name names on a public forum without their permission.

I'm sure that if you had a valid reason to ask, M-B could tell you.

[treadigraph]

Just vulgar curiosity.

[megan]

Are M-B's Meteors now the only airworthy examples still flying in the UKDon't know about the UK BEagle, but we have an ex RAF F.8 in Oz that does.

https://aviationmuseum.com.au/gloster-meteor-f-8/

[BEagle]

Good to know that VZ467 'Winston' is still flying - it was the late 'Puddy' Catt's favourite mount back in the '70s when he was towing targets for us at RAF Brawdy.

[Bonkey]

At what point to these Meteor's become just uneconomical / dangerous to keep airworthy? Surprised that by now they have not switched to something like a couple of surplus Hawk's for example.

Plus how cost effective is it for M-B to continue to maintain their own airfield when for the amount of flying they do they could surely set up residence at somewhere like Northolt, Benson, Farnborough, Odiham etc - all of those being within a 15-45 minute drive from their HQ at Denham.

[NutLoose]

At what point to these Meteor's become just uneconomical / dangerous to keep airworthy? Surprised that by now they have not switched to something like a couple of surplus Hawk's for example.

Plus how cost effective is it for M-B to continue to maintain their own airfield when for the amount of flying they do they could surely set up residence at somewhere like Northolt, Benson, Farnborough, Odiham etc - all of those being within a 15-45 minute drive from their HQ at Denham.


The problem you have is a Hawk is a single engine, so when you bang out a seat the engine ingests all that lovely smoke and debris, not an ideal outcome, that is why the meteor is still in use, it is a reliable, strong aircraft, with wing mounted engines out of the way of the smoke ingestion, stronger more damage resistant engines being centrifugal, has a speed range suitable for testing most seats... If you write a spec for a tandem seat, twin engine wing pod mounted aircraft, rugged and simple to operate with a sufficent speed range to carry out the tests you come back to the Meteor, there simply isn't anything else out there.

[DaveReidUK]

The problem you have is a Hawk is a single seater

I suspect you didn't mean that ...

[Quemerford]

I suspect you didn't mean that ...

Some are though....

[chevvron]

At what point to these Meteor's become just uneconomical / dangerous to keep airworthy? Surprised that by now they have not switched to something like a couple of surplus Hawk's for example.

Plus how cost effective is it for M-B to continue to maintain their own airfield when for the amount of flying they do they could surely set up residence at somewhere like Northolt, Benson, Farnborough, Odiham etc - all of those being within a 15-45 minute drive from their HQ at Denham.
The testing of ejector seats requires the runway and indeed entire airfield be 'sterilised' for long periods so operations at any of those airfields would cause delays to other traffic (not that Northolt has a lot even when their runway is open);).
M B were supposed to re-equip with Hawks back in the '80s but it just never happened. I saw it on a list of aircraft allocated to the (what was then) MOD(PE) fleet.

[DaveReidUK]

Some are though....

Yes, but using those ones for ejection seat trials would use up a lot of airframes. :O

[Bonkey]

The problem you have is a Hawk is a single seater.....

Funny, I thought the Hawk was primarily a dual seat jet trainer as the main role and that only some were single seaters :rolleyes:

[Bonkey]

The testing of ejector seats requires the runway and indeed entire airfield be 'sterilised' for long periods so operations at any of those airfields would cause delays to other traffic (not that Northolt has a lot even when their runway is open);).


Langford Lodge - where the other MB operations are based and the test sled too?

[treadigraph]

Think Nutty meant to type "single engined"...

[DaveReidUK]

Think Nutty meant to type "single engined"...

I know, we're only teasing him. But you're right, we should cut Nutty some slack.

[Blossy]

I know, we're only teasing him. But you're right, we should cut Nutty some slack.

Yes, but with a rather blunt pair of scissors!

[spekesoftly]

In 2017 Aviation Week published an article about M-B's two Meteors, with some interesting quotes from their chief pilot and their marketing director:-



"In spite of its considerable vintage, the sturdy British attack aircraft has all the attributes required for a stable, high-speed test platform" says Andy Gent, Martin-Baker’s head of flying and chief pilot. “From a test perspective the Meteor is ideal. The tail boom is fairly long and the fin is not very high. The engines are also spaced out a fair way out along the wing, so the efflux from the ejection test and exhaust from the gun and rocket motor isn’t potentially going down the engine intakes,” he says.

Based at Martin-Baker’s Chalgrove, England, test facility, the fleet is made up of two Meteors, WA638 and WL419, both of which have been with the company since the 1960s. “They are doing the job so why would you ever go through the heartache of getting another aircraft?” says Gent.

In short, it does not fly all too much, it gets the job done and its well built. Similar reason most older aircraft are still flying these days.

The article goes on to say that they have little intention of changing this any time soon:

Marketing Director Andrew Martin notes the company is one of only a handful that performs airborne ejection tests, and that the Meteor will continue to be used for the foreseeable future. “It is a tough thing to evaluate, and right now while we have these phenomenal assets we are not going to really think about a replacement in great detail,” he says. With the final retirement of the last Royal Air Force (RAF)-operated aircraft in the target towing role in the early 1980s, Martin-Baker acquired a large stock of spares and Rolls-Royce Derwent 8 turbojets. Because of that and the ample remaining airframe life, the company is no rush to find a successor.

[Herod]

we should cut Nutty some slack.

nutty-slack. (noun)

(UK) A cheap fuel consisting of slack (https://www.yourdictionary.com/slack) (coal dust) and small lumps of coal (nuts).

(Your Dictionary)

[Quemerford]

Mmm nutty slack.....:}

[Steve Bond]

But what is happening about the enforced move away from Chalgrove so that it can be covered in houses?

[NutLoose]

Yes, but with a rather blunt pair of scissors!

:{



yup a typo...

[Lordflasheart]

...
Hi Steve -
But what is happening about the enforced move away from Chalgrove so that it can be covered in houses?

I refer you to the Red 5 thread in the military section for details of the odd goings on at Chalgrove, including the proposed construction of a brand new runway so Martin-Baker can co-exist with 3000 houses and three schools.

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/624638-new-book-red-5-investigation.html

....