Lufthansa do not want to pay.

[tubby linton]

Lufthansa have angered the relatives of the deceased from 4U9525 with a letter alleging that those lost had no fear of death and thus disputing the level of compensation.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.waz.de%2Fpanorama%2Flufthansa-germanwings-angehoerige-schaeumen-vor-wut-wegen-dieses-briefs-id226752841.html


The original article
https://www.waz.de/panorama/lufthansa-germanwings-angehoerige-schaeumen-vor-wut-wegen-dieses-briefs-id226752841.html?service=amp&__twitter_impression=true

[gearlever]

Same Media in contradiction.... (https://www.waz.de/panorama/germanwings-absturz-streit-um-schmerzensgeld-beendet-id215191423.html)

[DaveReidUK]

Same Media in contradiction.... (https://www.waz.de/panorama/germanwings-absturz-streit-um-schmerzensgeld-beendet-id215191423.html)

Different group of families.

[Euclideanplane]

This might depend marginally on how the PX interpreted the fact that the CP presumably did hammer at length with an axe on the cockpit door. If they all happened to think that is normal, then fine.

[Council Van]

This might depend marginally on how the PX interpreted the fact that the CP presumably did hammer at length with an axe on the cockpit door. If they all happened to think that is normal, then fine.
and those with a window seat would have realised they were not about to land as they descended towards the mountains. Who ever wrote that letter, and those who felt it was appropriate to send to the relatives, should be writing letters resigning from their jobs and an apology to the families of those who lost their lives.

What it was like for those on that aircraft is unimaginable.

[lomapaseo]

What it was like for those on that aircraft is unimaginable.

That is exactly Luft's point and why they want the awards limited.

[tubby linton]

I am sure that the families of the dead imagine what it was like onboard everyday of their lives and will continue to do so.

[Auxtank]

Maybe Lufthansa should have another listen to the CVR - where not only the blows of the axe the skipper was using to try and break in are heard but also the screams of the passengers are clearly audible.
Disgraceful attempt at evading a large payout. Shame on them.

[BEA 71]

I think Lufti´s behaviour has a lot to do with self-protection, i.e. never ending claims. They have learned from accidents of other airlines. Apart from claims, there are the annual tours to the accident scene. Very respected airlines, Lufthansa certainly is one too, had to put an end to what had become accident site tourism. I am aware that
this is a very emotional subject, but critics must also be reminded that there are conditions of contract, which clearly restrict payments to a certain amount. People accept these conditions when they buy a ticket. Unfortunately a " claim industry " has discovered this as a good source of income.

[BDAttitude]

I think Lufti´s behaviour has a lot to do with self-protection, i.e. never ending claims. They have learned from accidents of other airlines. Apart from claims, there are the annual tours to the accident scene. Very respected airlines, Lufthansa certainly is one too, had to put an end to what had become accident site tourism. I am aware that
this is a very emotional subject, but critics must also be reminded that there are conditions of contract, which clearly restrict payments to a certain amount. People accept these conditions when they buy a ticket. Unfortunately a " claim industry " has discovered this as a good source of income.
Not applicaple, I think. What they pay in this part of the world is peanuts compared to the anglo saxon world. Different legal systems.

[InSoMnIaC]

I think Lufti´s behaviour has a lot to do with self-protection, i.e. never ending claims. They have learned from accidents of other airlines. Apart from claims, there are the annual tours to the accident scene. Very respected airlines, Lufthansa certainly is one too, had to put an end to what had become accident site tourism. I am aware that
this is a very emotional subject, but critics must also be reminded that there are conditions of contract, which clearly restrict payments to a certain amount. People accept these conditions when they buy a ticket. Unfortunately a " claim industry " has discovered this as a good source of income.

people do not accept that an airline would keep a pilot employed who had history of suicidal thoughts. They also do not accept that it is reasonable to expect a member of the crew to intentionally bring the aircraft down. This was an intentional act which was reasonably preventable. All conditions of the contract go down the toilet in such a circumstance.

[homonculus]

Most courts consider suffering in judging quantum, but trying this argument before a hearing where the alleged facts seem to ridicule their claim decimates any support for the airline.

The other issue that concerns me are the amounts involved. The relatives are claiming 50,000 euros and Lufthansa wants to pay 25,000. Even ignoring the USA, these sums seem derisory. If a family has lost a sole bread winner it wont even cover the first year's costs.......I am not discussing what the various conventions require the airlines to pay, I am commenting on the probity of these amounts which IMHO totally fail to compensate the relatives.

[AviatorDave]

Most courts consider suffering in judging quantum, but trying this argument before a hearing where the alleged facts seem to ridicule their claim decimates any support for the airline.

The other issue that concerns me are the amounts involved. The relatives are claiming 50,000 euros and Lufthansa wants to pay 25,000. Even ignoring the USA, these sums seem derisory. If a family has lost a sole bread winner it wont even cover the first year's costs.......I am not discussing what the various conventions require the airlines to pay, I am commenting on the probity of these amounts which IMHO totally fail to compensate the relatives.


I don't understand why LH just doesn't pay up and be glad that the case is not all over the media any more. As you said, the claims are benign when compared to US standards, and there is probably more harm than good done by making any fuss about the payment and potentially have the media on the whole thing again.

[etudiant]

I don't understand why LH just doesn't pay up and be glad that the case is not all over the media any more. As you said, the claims are benign when compared to US standards, and there is probably more harm than good done by making any fuss about the payment and potentially have the media on the whole thing again.

Ianal, but possibly there are some legal liability hooks associated with the payments, liabilities LH does not wish to accept.
That notwithstanding, I agree 100% with Aviator Dave, they should thank their lucky stars that this is out of the media and do whatever it takes to keep it out.

[FlightDetent]

The only explanation is we do not have the whole picture.

Financial distinction between 25 or 50 k is minuscule for a company their size. The threat of the event details resurfacing and opening up the unhealed wounds on the front page is real, with enormous consequences.

Yet they chose to risk the latter against accepting the former. A possibility that this was a flop decision by a small, unsupervised group of managers is beyond probable, in my opinion.

[BDAttitude]

As I understand it it's really about that 25k.
There will also be a surviving dependants' pension in addition to that but the numbers will not depend on the pain and suffering but on general numbers defined by the family courts like for child support in case of divorce. This means a significant hit to the standard of living - which is why those 25k are important to the families.
​​​​My bet is indeed on some middle manager doing a disservice to his employer.

[ATC Watcher]

people do not accept that an airline would keep a pilot employed who had history of suicidal thoughts. [...] . This was an intentional act which was reasonably preventable.
You make statements here which do not match the facts. Read the report again .

[BDAttitude]

now why sould anyone be compensated for the fear someone else might have had?
this compensation racket is getting more and more ridiculous by the day
Because they cannot be compensated for their own emotional despair and mourning under the law in germany. But the damage claim from the deceased pax (i.e. the despair before his actual death) is inheritable.
As I said before, the families have to try and get everything they can, because the sums are rather smallish and do by no means secure the standard of living as in other jurisdictions where the compensation might be based on what the deceased could have earnt throughout his live or might be even higher because the compensations are thought to have punitive character.

[derjodel]

LH has no honor. I guess they only care abiut their shareholders and nothing else.

I had a claim against them, delayed flight due to trchnical reasons (reason announced by the Captain!). It was was a clear case where eu passenger compensation applies. They called me to tell me they reviewed my claim, but it was denied. I wrote back an email citing one of the EU courts rulings right arter the call. And literary 5 minutes later ingot another call that now my claim has been reviewed and I was going to be compensated.

They are playing the same game, but of course, the suffering of those people due to their medical screwup is on another level. Disgraceful. And they will lose anyway. It‘s just to show to their shareholders they did everything they could to save that „expenditure“.

[meadowrun]

Is there insurance involved?
Do insurers have a role in this?

[BEA 71]

LH has no honor. I guess they only care abiut their shareholders and nothing else.

I had a claim against them, delayed flight due to trchnical reasons (reason announced by the Captain!). It was was a clear case where eu passenger compensation applies. They called me to tell me they reviewed my claim, but it was denied. I wrote back an email citing one of the EU courts rulings right arter the call. And literary 5 minutes later ingot another call that now my claim has been reviewed and I was going to be compensated.

They are playing the same game, but of course, the suffering of those people due to their medical screwup is on another level. Disgraceful. And they will lose anyway. It‘s just to show to their shareholders they did everything they could to save that „expenditure“.

derjodel - You seem to hate Lufthansa deeply. Claiming they have no honour is simply ridiculous. I am not Lufthansa, never have been - but remember from my days as a airline station manager, many moons ago, a " claims culture " developed, often with the background of trying to get as much of the paid air fare back as possible. It caused the airlines to put the foot on the brake, and strictly adhere to the conditions of contract for self-protection. I do not refer to the original subject/comments. The EU regulations have caused more damage, than they helped, goodwill payments and ex gratia payments, which were very common in the old days, are out of question now.

[CaptainProp]

AF were ordered to pay €126K for each of the 447 victim’s families. €50K really does seem like peanuts for LH and I’m surprised they’re fighting this one.

CP

[BEA 71]

AF were ordered to pay €126K for each of the 447 victim’s families. €50K really does seem like peanuts for LH and I’m surprised they’re fighting this one.

CP

I have been " googling " a bit on this subject. It is mainly newspaper stories you find. Mainly emotional statements, and few facts on the actual payments made. On source says that individual payments were in the range of 100K. Whether this is right or wrong, I do not know. LH is tight-lipped. May be for good reasons.

[gearlever]

I have been " googling " a bit on this subject. It is mainly newspaper stories you find. Mainly emotional statements, and few facts on the actual payments made. On source says that individual payments were in the range of 100K. Whether this is right or wrong, I do not know. LH is tight-lipped. May be for good reasons.

Yep, also found reports of an average compensation of 100k €. Too much folklore......

But the higher the demands, the higher lawyers will participate....