Seaplane rating SEA float rating EASA

[Yeah]

Hi,
Aeroclub Como, where I thought everything was set up just screwed me up. I'm looking for another reasonable school where I can make float rating. I have holidays planned on the and of month and I don't want to mess it up. Any recons?

Second question, with my FCL license how is complicated to do it in USA?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've heard nothing but good about the people around G-DRAM in Scotland and one of these days, when I have spare cash and time, plan to do mine there myself.

www.scotlandonfloats.com (http://www.freescotland.com/scotia/)

G

[Jan Olieslagers]

My first option would be South-Western France, check the magical name of Biscarrosse with its long tradition of seaplanes including an excellent museum and an active aeroclub offering the training and rating. I am however unsure how doable it would be if not speaking French - myself luckily do, to some degree.

If I were rich I'd go and do it all in Western Canada.

[S-Works]

Before EASA you used to be able to do the rating in an ICAO country and return to Europe and take the Seaplane exams and apply for the rating on your licence. After EAS that all canned and now you can only do it through an EASA ATO. There are very few of us in Europe who can do the Flight Test and writen exams for you now. I am surprised you have had an issue with Como, they are usually excellent. Biscarrosse are also superb, I have done skill tests for them on occasion. There used to be an Instructor there that spoke good enough English to teach the course and that with the UK seaplane exams in English is enough to get the rating done. There is also a school in Norway that does it but restricted to the summer.

[Yeah]

Any link to Biscarrosse?

[Jan Olieslagers]

Someone's bound to chime in, I expect :)

Then again, there's a kind of software known as "www search engine". Myself mostly use startpage.com but there's a plethora to choose from. Now just suppose you applied your skills with search terms like "aeroclub biscarrosse hydravion" - I'm sure something useful would turn up.

[treadigraph]

I think Pete Kynsey does floatplane training on a Husky around Rochester/Chatham area if UK is doable for you.

[Prop swinger]

NPPL only, I believe.

[Piper.Classique]

Yes, plus one for Biscarrosse. Some of the instructors are airline people so speak enough English. Also they are a genuine club, non profit, all volunteers, so the price is very reasonable. And it's super cubs and a Seebee. What more could you ask?

[Jan Olieslagers]

Ah, there you are at last, @PC! A full 24 hours, even more, after I summoned you, shame! ;)

[Piper.Classique]

Sorry to be so slow. Must have been busy enjoying the nice weather.

[FoxtrotGolfFoxtrot]

Guys

and idea about the costs to beat a float rating?

thnank you in advance for the reply

[Gertrude the Wombat]

and idea about the costs to beat a float rating?
Around twice the hourly cost of a landplane. Supposedly (others here probably know the real reason) because what would be a minor landing accident in a landplane typically results in capsizing a floatplane, which is rather more expensive to sort out, so the insurance costs are rather higher.

[Piper.Classique]

If you pay the full annual suscription art Biscarrosse, Aquitaine Hydraviation, (as I recall 200€) it's 195€ an hour in the super cub, with or without instructor. Minimum hours is eight plus test. You can fly solo after the test. Alternatively, you can opt for a cheaper sub and a higher hourly rate. They won't train you for the rating until you have your PPL land and 100 hours. I suggest you contact them to arrange a course, as they are usually pretty busy, and they get an extra instructor in to run a course. Usually takes five days.
PS
Some of us guys are girls

[Jan Olieslagers]

For what it is worth: here is a recent report from a German chap (chappess?) who flew a float-equipped microlight on lake Biscarrosse:

https://www.ulforum.de/ultraleicht/forum/12_fliegen-und-reisen/8219_ul-wasserfliegen-in-frankreich

[Piper.Classique]

That's the microlight school, though. Might not be what the OP is looking for. But he or she seems to have vanished, anyway.

[FoxtrotGolfFoxtrot]

Thank you for the information @Piper.Classique I really appreciate tha informations you provided me

[Forfoxake]

Had a great 20 minute instructional flight in a C172 Floatplane with Aeroclub Como two years ago for 80 Euros.

Hoped to do the same, or more, next week but have just been quoted 190 Euros for the same flight!

Anyone know the reason for this extraordinary increase?

[Pilot DAR]

Generally, the higher costs of floatplane operation, as stated earlier, is higher insurance costs, and the reality that the small event in a landplane could be a large, or write off event in a floatplane. There is also quite a cost to buy and maintain a set of floats, which you don't have with a wheelplane. The only way to beat the higher cost a little bit if you're going to fly a lot, is to own the plane. I no longer insure my two amphibians for hull, I take the risk. This morning's conversation with a colleague is that three of his amphibian owner friends have seen insurance costs about double in recent months. The only way to beat this is for everyone to fly more safely, and not have accidents.

It's been a bad year for floatplane insurance claims this year. A friend of mine flipped his 185 amphib just over a month ago with his wife and kids on board. Wife and kids made it, my friend and the dog did not. 'Problem was, he was carrying one too many kids aboard (they're small kids so they fit, but the count was one too many) and it appears that the insurer will disallow the hull insurance payment for that. It's been a costly year for insurers, and they're not making the extra step to be generous. When their costs go up, we pay soon after if we want that service. So, fly safe, but you can't argue the costs - no one will listen!

[Curlytips]

Never done it here, but at Rochester we have a Husky on floats (appropriately registered G-WATR), that trains would-be float pilots. Whilst Rochester (EGTO) is dry land (except in bad winters), they go off and land on Medway Marine. Can't offer a contact number, but if you call the airport, I'm sure they can help put you in touch.

[Forfoxake]

Called in at Aeroclub Como anyway today but got the same answer: 190 Euros for an instructional flight (although my girlfriend could come with me). Too much for me for a short flight!

Nearly all the planes were flying however so perhaps they are concentrating on getting pilots their seaplane ratings, which (as a former microlight instructor) I can certainly understand.


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[Gertrude the Wombat]

Called in at Aeroclub Como anyway today but got the same answer: 190 Euros for an instructional flight (although my girlfriend could come with me). Too much for me for a short flight!

Nearly all the planes were flying however so perhaps they are concentrating on getting pilots their seaplane ratings, which (as a former microlight instructor) I can certainly understand.​​​​
Nobody has claimed that floatplane flying is cheap!

If you're getting the rating you're hanging around paying for a hotel for a week with nothing much to do except fly (once you've spent a couple of hours walking around the town and gone for a boat ride[#]), so you're after two flights a day weather permitting, so it doesn't take very many students for the aircraft to be quite busy.

[#] I included a train ride to Switzerland for lunch one day. That's not cheap either.

[Less Hair]

190 Euros? Doesn't sound that bad given how exotic seaplane flying is in Europe and that northern Italy and Lake Como are some high cost environment.
Thanks for the backgrounders.

[Piper.Classique]

At Biscarosse, which is a non profit association, it is €195 per hour in super cub on amphibious floats. The Sea bee costs more.

[S-Works]

I have done SEP(sea) skill tests for both Como and Biscarosse and find the both to be charming places. Very individual and quirky and I would be hard pushed to so which I prefer the most, the vote would come down to who has the better food and wine....... :)

And trust me €190 is cheap for seaplane flying, I have paid twice as much at other places. Its not cheap, think of the cost of an aircraft to maintain and then add in the floats and the effect of water and you will see where the prices come from.

[Forfoxake]

At Biscarosse, which is a non profit association, it is €195 per hour in super cub on amphibious floats. The Sea bee costs more.

I would be quite willing to pay 195 Euros per hour (or a bit more) but at Como I was told that it is 190 Euros for a 20 minute instructional flight!

And, as I stated earlier, the same flight was only 80 Euros two years ago.

[Piper.Classique]

Biscarrosse is a club. A non profit association. I don't know about Lake Como. Every club in France is allowed to sell short flights at whatever price the market will bear. Up to ten percent of their income can come from these. There are rules about who can do them and how long they can be. The hourly rate is for members who pay a subscription. Biscarrosse charges a lot more for a short flight Pro rata than the members rate. You can rock up to the hangar, get a ride, pay, leave. No annual subscription. Helps to pay the bills, no commitment to carry on. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Como does the same. If that doesn't suit you then you are free to take your custom elsewhere. So Como put the price up? I suspect that's because they were losing money. You should have flown the first time you went, when it was cheaper.

[Forfoxake]

PC wrote: "You should have flown the first time you went, when it was cheaper."

I did and it was great. But I should have done more at that price! Very good instructor and amazed how quick it came back to me- I had obtained a UK Microlight Seaplane rating many years before. I had also flown Cubs at Jack Brown's seaplane base.

[Piper.Classique]

Cool! I'm glad you had fun. I loved Biscarosse. I expect I'll be back. Nothing much better than a super cub pretending it's a boat. You know there's a microlight club with a floatplane in the next but one hangar?

[Forfoxake]

Cool! I'm glad you had fun. I loved Biscarosse. I expect I'll be back. Nothing much better than a super cub pretending it's a boat. You know there's a microlight club with a floatplane in the next but one hangar?

No, I did not know that! Perhaps I can go there to revalidate my UK rating- all my previous microlight floatplane flying was in British Columbia.

[Pilot DAR]

As I had been mentioning about the higher costs for operating a floatplane, today's exercise was a perfect example;

About a week ago, a friend of a friend went mechanical in a small (900 meter run, with 75 foot trees obstacle) lake - full power not available for takeoff. I was consulted, and from the information given, it sounded like an exhaust valve failure. Absolutely no land access to the site. So my friend flies his 185 floatplane up to help: An hour operating cost for the 185, plus his time. Yup, it's not developing full power, can't fly out. Fly home to figure it out, 'cause the sun is setting. Fly back with tools and mechanic the next day, find the flat cylinder, and remove it, fly home. Another hour on the 185, plus two people's time. There's a real sense of urgency, as it gets colder, the opportunity to fly it out is reduced.

This morning, fly up a mechanic with a replacement cylinder (yes, it shed an exhaust valve seat). Third hour on the 185, and more time. Mechanic finds he need a few more parts, and... the 185 goes mechanical at home. No big deal, but it's not flying today! I happen along home base in my amphibian on other business - "Hey, Pilot DAR, could you fly some parts up to the mechanic for us?". He's there by himself, and either gets the stricken plane flying, so he can fly it home, or someone has to go to get him, as he's not planning to spend the night sleeping in the floatplane at shore. "Pilot DAR at your service...".

It was a beautiful day for a flight over the golden gown of autumn, and I enjoyed every minute of it. I tucked into shore, and handed the parts to a very appreciative mechanic. I decided not to complicate things by shutting down myself, just in case. I backed away from shore and waited for his signal that he was all set. With that, I departed, and I understand he flew the stricken plane home for the owner this afternoon.

So, in addition to the basic time and cost for a cylinder change, four flying hours to move people and parts back and forth, and more than that in people hours. Of course, we're all friends, and would do it for each other, so no money will change hands, but, the cost is there. The plane was "laked" about 15 miles from the nearest road, and more than a mile from the next larger lake - either it flies out of a short lake under it's own power, or the wings come off, and the helicopter is hired for several lifts.

A flying school, or commercial operation might not have the same "friends" arrangement, and had to bear that cost. I presume that wise operations budget those costs in, hence higher prices, and more restrictions on taking the plane away.

As an aside, the helicopter which crashed north of my area on August 11, is still there in the remote area, I flew over it today. Someone has partly tarped it, and draped some small trees, I suppose to protect, and perhaps conceal it. But, it too is many miles from any ground path in. Presuming that it has been hard landing damaged so as not to be flyable, it'll be a helicopter lift to get it out. I suppose if it has not been done to date, there are other factors involved in the recovery. Certainly the weather has been very nice for the last month, so it's not a weather issue. It's going to be less nice as winter approaches...

In any case, it was a beautiful day for some flying, so here's a photo as I backed away from the stricken plane, and held off shore for the mechanic to signal he was all set....


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1200/150_oct_11_2019_9eddc9e754acabc89e916b16caa74ec18e7eea97.jpg


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1200/img_6128_d109b68f805922a5d68e7e3f32812fdc4fb02234.jpg