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allison
31st Jul 2019, 07:21
Good Day,

We need to implement and train URTP in our B737 Airliner. It all seems pretty similar to me, ie pitch, roll, power, stabilize. I would very much like to ask for any guidance on the subject; links, international courses offered, suggestions?

Thank you all in advance.

ACMS
31st Jul 2019, 08:24
Shouldn’t you be speaking to ummmm maybe BOEING.............

They May have some info on handling their Aircraft.......

ScepticalOptomist
31st Jul 2019, 09:37
And please tell us which airline/ carrier you are asking for - I’d like to add them to my every growing list of “avoid”.

I know PPRUNE is meant to be an open forum for questions, but the sheer volume of questions from people that ought to know better is truly frightening.

Airmann
31st Jul 2019, 10:56
Good Day,

We need to implement and train URTP in our B737 Airliner. It all seems pretty similar to me, ie pitch, roll, power, stabilize. I would very much like to ask for any guidance on the subject; links, international courses offered, suggestions?

Thank you all in advance.


​​​​​​Ya Boeing seems to have had some trouble with large pitch, nose down events recently. They're still working on it. Give them some time. Come back later

safetypee
31st Jul 2019, 11:52
Keep it simple.
Concentrate on avoidance; speed and attitude awareness.
Refresh aerodynamic and systems knowledge.
Understand the limitations of simulation, and safety margins provided by certification.

https://www.icao.int/Meetings/LOCI/Pages/Upset-Prevention-and-Recovery-Training-Provisions.aspx

https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/ops-infra/training-licensing/Documents/gmbp_uprt.pdf

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10508414.2017.1365610?needAccess=true

https://www.wats-event.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Nathalie-de-Ziegler.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_120-109A.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/media/Evaluation_of_Stall_Models_for_Training.pdf

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2015_q1/pdf/AERO_2015q1.pdf

Zoso
31st Jul 2019, 16:31
Allison, I would recommend "push?" not "pitch?" first, as with a low nose, high speed, high bank situation "pitching" first may induce a back pressure input before rolling wings level, thus tightening the turn and inducing a spiral dive.

Centaurus
1st Aug 2019, 03:46
https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/training/media/Appendix%203-B_briefing.pdf

A well described briefing. Should be taught at PPL level or at the latest as part of instrument rating syllabus.

john_tullamarine
1st Aug 2019, 06:16
Moving back a page or two, the source page whence came Centaurus' link. This has some more interesting stuff for review.

https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/training/

FullWings
1st Aug 2019, 08:42
There’s an ICAO guide that doesn’t appear to have been linked to yet: AUPRTA (http://www.icao.int/safety/loci/auprta/index.html) and they also do it as an app. Not a bad place to start...

Alpine Flyer
5th Aug 2019, 19:46
A lot of our UPRT training revolved around getting a feeling for the difference in stall margin and control sensitivity at altittude compared to low-level.

allison
1st Sep 2019, 20:00
With all due respect-scepticaloptomist (https://www.pprune.org/members/476276-scepticaloptomist) Over 70 percent of our pilots were trained in the Airforce, including myself. From transport to helicopters to fighters. The other 30 percent flew Bush planes, turboprops, corporate jets, for thousands of hours before being granted an interview. I apologize if you think we cannot fly. Several of of us do competitive aerobatics. We do not have a single MPL or fast tract cadet employed with us. We have one of the most skillful flight decks, ie 12000 hours combined airline experience. I am surprised by so many of these forums, they are some amazing guys that contribute their knowledge, and then there are some ‘others’ who think they know. Thank you all to those who replied with conservative answers. It’s a LOC-I initiative that is new to us. Either way APS have offered to facilitate our program.

ScepticalOptomist
2nd Sep 2019, 03:35
Fair enough allison - I apologise for casting aspersions.

I should follow my own advice and not post when there is nothing useful to contribute. The world would be a better place.

hans brinker
2nd Sep 2019, 06:42
Fair enough allison - I apologise for casting aspersions.

I should follow my own advice and not post when there is nothing useful to contribute. The world would be a better place.

Well, there is some advice I too should take......