Virgin and the China connection

[mickjoebill]

An in-depth report, of the kind that is lacking from mainstream media. Investigative Reporter Michael West has a good track record.
The report makes a case that’s Virgin PR is at odds with reality.

Dick Smith “dumfounded” by reports of potential Chinese involvement in training airbase.
Virgin 40% owned by Chinese. Federal, State and Local government reported as being in the dark about future ownership of the base.

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/mayday-two-shadowy-chinese-corporations-behind-virgins-plan-to-control-australian-airbase/

[wishiwasupthere]

No real surprises that Dick Smith’s name is associated with a China scaremongering article.

This article loses any credibility when it refers to Tamworth Airport as an ‘airbase’, and describes it as a “specialised military training facility”. It’s hardly specialised, it’s taking ab initio students up to a basic CPL level. And as of this year, it won’t even be a “specialised military training facility”, it’ll just be a bunch of empty buildings at a civilian airport, hardly a unique situation in Australia.

[Snakecharma]

With respect, it is a load of ****

tamworth as a defence base? Seriously?

As as for Dick smith being dumbfounded? That really doesn’t take much. All that crap about the franking credits. What a load of self aggrandizing nonsense.

Its not like the virgin academy, if anything actually comes of it, is going to be parked across the taxiway from Area 51.

dick says he thought virgin was australian owned. I don’t know if it was poorly worded but seriously even my aged mother-in-law knows that virgin is not australian owned with Singapore, hainan, nanshan, Etihad and virgin group as significant owners.

sensationalist reporting and nonsense like this does nothing except spread fear and hysteria amongst those that know little to nothing of the realities of the global aviation.

I truly despair at times.

[Fieldmouse]

As Bae wind down Cae and AIA are cranking up. Activity sounds about the same and aussie accents are few and far between already.

[PoppaJo]

Virgin I thought was Aussie-owned but in fact it’s pretty well completely foreign-owned and it looks like it is completely Chinese government controlled,” Mr Smith said. “I am desperately worried about aviation and for this to be done secretly is just unbelievable.”
Dick oh Dick...
You thought....or what you really mean... I wish they were aussie owned?

Chinese running Virgin.

The Chairwoman has a questionable amount of input let alone anyone in China. It’s a one man show. PS wants, PS gets.

[Snakecharma]

Poppa - can’t be any worse than JWI - John wants it.

JWI blew any logic or business sense out of the water

[Colonel_Klink]

I actually don’t know where to start with that article.....

By reading it anyone would think that the the defence facility at Tamworth houses multiple squadrons of F18s and F35s and that it’s pivotal to the nation’s defense. Excuse me as I roll my eyes in the knowledge that the only thing that flys there on behalf of the defence force are CT4s. And obviously the defence force doesn’t care particularly about this as they contract the work out to civilian operators in the form of BAE.

Again the article seems to suggest that the Chinese are running the defence force out of town - again BAE at Tamworth lost the contract and all RAAF ab-initio training is going to be conducted at East Sale. So no flying training will be conducted at Tamworth from October 31.

Except the article fails to mention that CAE have opened up a satellite operation to add to their already significant amounts of flying they do at Moorabbin. And would it shock anyone to know that CAE’s major clients are....Chinese airline cadets. In addition to this it is probably worth mentioning that a significant number of the major flying schools in Australia have contracts with overseas (and most are significantly Chinese) airlines.

So here is what I can’t fathom - where does all this scaremongering about Chinese airline students come from and why? When people of the likes of Dick Smith are complaining about the demise of GA in this country - how can he then go and get all up and about when there is the possibility of a major GA flying school about to commence operations. When the likes of Barnaby Joyce are complaining about the demise of rural towns (and shifting large government departments to these towns) - how can they be possibly complaining about this flying school going ahead. The school is going to be training airline pilots - not Chinese military pilots who are going to learn the secrets of Australian Defence Force aviation. Do these people need to be reminded of the significant benefits that a flying school like this could bring to a regional centre like Tamworth - especially considering the RAAF have elected to stop basic training being carried out there? Here is a tip, go and ask the communities of Mildura (Pearson’s- training Chinese cadets), Ballarat (Singapore Training Academy - training Chinese cadets), Wagga (Rex training academy), etc how they feel about the increased business that these schools have brought to those regional centres.

To train 500 students a year you would need close to 100 staff (flying instructors, engineers, refuellers, etc, etc). The amount of money (read jobs) that this would bring into the town is significant. And this is also the same reason you had multiple regional cities bidding for the Qantas training academy - because businesses like this breed jobs. And on a side note, Qantas have said that they want to not only train Australian pilots, but foreign airline pilots as well (queue the outrage). They have said they want 500 pilots a year - and it won’t take three guesses where a lot of those foreign pilots will be from.

I get a little sick and tired of Virgin having the boots sunk into it because of its ownership structure. Virgin is majority foreign owned, which it is perfectly entitled to be. But what perhaps Dick Smith and the like seem to forget is that they employ 10,000 Australians. I know my family don’t give two hoots about the fact some Chinese companies own a minority stake in Virgin, they just care that the pay cheque arrives every fortnight. And I bet that is the case for the other 10000 families that Virgin have employees with.

This article, and the people quoted in it, should be called out for what they are.

[PoppaJo]

Dick for what reasons do you see all these Chinese flying schools opening up all over the country as some form of threat? Would you ban these schools if you could?

Ballarat is a fine example. Look at the airport before STAA arrived and look at it now.

Bendigo is another trying to woo the schools, upgrade recently completed. Mareeba is another, incredible amounts of upgrades underway in an attempt to bring in these businesses.

[thefeatheredone]

I actually don’t know where to start with that article.....

By reading it anyone would think that the the defence facility at Tamworth houses multiple squadrons of F18s and F35s and that it’s pivotal to the nation’s defense. Excuse me as I roll my eyes in the knowledge that the only thing that flys there on behalf of the defence force are CT4s. And obviously the defence force doesn’t care particularly about this as they contract the work out to civilian operators in the form of BAE.

Again the article seems to suggest that the Chinese are running the defence force out of town - again BAE at Tamworth lost the contract and all RAAF ab-initio training is going to be conducted at East Sale. So no flying training will be conducted at Tamworth from October 31.

Except the article fails to mention that CAE have opened up a satellite operation to add to their already significant amounts of flying they do at Moorabbin. And would it shock anyone to know that CAE’s major clients are....Chinese airline cadets. In addition to this it is probably worth mentioning that a significant number of the major flying schools in Australia have contracts with overseas (and most are significantly Chinese) airlines.

So here is what I can’t fathom - where does all this scaremongering about Chinese airline students come from and why? When people of the likes of Dick Smith are complaining about the demise of GA in this country - how can he then go and get all up and about when there is the possibility of a major GA flying school about to commence operations. When the likes of Barnaby Joyce are complaining about the demise of rural towns (and shifting large government departments to these towns) - how can they be possibly complaining about this flying school going ahead. The school is going to be training airline pilots - not Chinese military pilots who are going to learn the secrets of Australian Defence Force aviation. Do these people need to be reminded of the significant benefits that a flying school like this could bring to a regional centre like Tamworth - especially considering the RAAF have elected to stop basic training being carried out there? Here is a tip, go and ask the communities of Mildura (Pearson’s- training Chinese cadets), Ballarat (Singapore Training Academy - training Chinese cadets), Wagga (Rex training academy), etc how they feel about the increased business that these schools have brought to those regional centres.

To train 500 students a year you would need close to 100 staff (flying instructors, engineers, refuellers, etc, etc). The amount of money (read jobs) that this would bring into the town is significant. And this is also the same reason you had multiple regional cities bidding for the Qantas training academy - because businesses like this breed jobs. And on a side note, Qantas have said that they want to not only train Australian pilots, but foreign airline pilots as well (queue the outrage). They have said they want 500 pilots a year - and it won’t take three guesses where a lot of those foreign pilots will be from.

I get a little sick and tired of Virgin having the boots sunk into it because of its ownership structure. Virgin is majority foreign owned, which it is perfectly entitled to be. But what perhaps Dick Smith and the like seem to forget is that they employ 10,000 Australians. I know my family don’t give two hoots about the fact some Chinese companies own a minority stake in Virgin, they just care that the pay cheque arrives every fortnight. And I bet that is the case for the other 10000 families that Virgin have employees with.

This article, and the people quoted in it, should be called out for what they are.

How dare you bring logic and reason to a perfectly good virgin bashing thread.

[dr dre]

So here is what I can’t fathom - where does all this scaremongering about Chinese airline students come from and why?
There’s a narrative running in the media lately that the “evil, scary Chinese” are here to take over our country by stealth. This just plays into that.

Same as Clive Palmer running these ads showing the China Southern College in Merredin being used as a “back door” base for a Chinese Invasion of Perth. It would be hillarious if a large amount of people weren’t falling for these lies and taking them seriously:

Important Security Information for every Australian

[Rated De]

There’s a narrative running in the media lately that the “evil, scary Chinese” are here to take over our country by stealth. This just plays into that.

Same as Clive Palmer running these ads showing the China Southern College in Merredin being used as a “back door” base for a Chinese Invasion of Perth. It would be hillarious if a large amount of people weren’t falling for these lies and taking them seriously:

Important Security Information for every Australian (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O5etJKact8s)

Provided Australian companies can invest and control assets including airports in China there should be no problem....

[Wizofoz]

Provided Australian companies can invest and control assets including airports in China there should be no problem....

So, we should base our countries ownership policies on those of a communist dictatorship?

[smiling monkey]

The Chinese don't need people on the ground in Australia to do their spying. They've allegedly been doing this remotely for years!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-12/chinese-video-surveillance-network-used-by-australian-government/10212600

[Rated De]

So, we should base our countries ownership policies on those of a communist dictatorship?

Perhaps in hindsight the /sarc tag was in fact needed.

Australia's naive and short term self serving behaviour has allowed Chinese interests (all state controlled) to purchase agriculture, property and all sorts of strategic assets.
Politicians from both sides take donations from interesting types, "entrepreneurs" from a single party state, where Private enterprise is a misnomer. The FIRB ignores money laundering from Chinese interest amounting to billions, while the ATO cracks down on PAYG taxpayer claims. The political class point fingers at each other, while continuing to solicit donations from Chinese interests.

In short Australia's lack of oversight, lack of sovereign concern and desire for the ever quick buck have resulted in the mess that is foreign policy, awakening a populous to the reality of China keen to spread its peculiar view of the world beyond its borders.

Australia's backbone is as strong as the concrete presently keeping up all the dog box slums dotting Australia's cities.

[harrryw]

I find it ironic that Dick Smith, whose love for aviation and Australia I do not doubt is so strong on promoting an isolationist Australia as far as business is concerned however the same Dick Smith got his wealth through promoting and importing foreign made electronic components and equipment and hence contributing greatly to the decimation of the component manufacturing industry and the electronic manufacturing industry.
Maybe a middle road is needed but it seems the playing field is slanted and time needed to catch up.
Maybe a time for Australia to build a flying school in the Paracel Islands so that they do not have to fly so far to train.

[ExtraShot]

Dick Smith promoting an isolationist Australia

I dont believe he’s done any such thing.

He’s merely alerting people to the fact we seem to be selling ourselves (cheaply) to a foreign dictatorship. One it seems that hasn’t been playing by the rules the rest of us have to face (trade, currency, borders, maritime law, human rights, etc etc). Correct me if I’m wrong but His, and others’, concerns in this area doesn’t extend to doing business with other foreign entities who DO adhere to the rule of law.

Being cautious and critical of where Chinese Communist party is placing their money (and influence) should be encouraged, even if this particular deal turns out to be innocuous.

[harrryw]

ExtraShot, I think you would be hard pressed to find any country that DOES adhere to the rule of law in those areas you quoted. I do think he has been producing an isolationist Australia. Just look at his campaigns regarding Australian Made aimed at manufacturers in the US and Europe. I do believe though that Australia has allowed and in many ways encouraged overseas ownership or effective control of resources and trade at either too fast a rate or too high a rate and that a pause in that regard may be warranted. I repeat my respect for Dick in many areas is real however there were areas which his actions in Australia cost the livelihoods of many people in this country but that was 60 years ago and maybe people mature and change.

[George Glass]

Hehehehe..., gotta love this latest iteration of the Red Peril and the Asian Hordes. Remember when the Japanese were buying up the Gold Coast? Remember when they all lost their shirts when property values went south and the exchange rate turned? Or when they stopped coming to Cairns and decided Guam was cheaper and safer? Or when their economy tanked and our trade surplus evaporated?
Or maybe you don’t........... Be careful what you wish for.

[ExtraShot]

I think you would be hard pressed to find any country that DOES adhere to the rule of law in those areas you quoted

I’m not saying every country does, but not every other country is an Authoritarian Communist Dictatorship with such extremes expansionist ambitions.

​​​​​​​But if you insist. Off you go then. Let’s have a few examples. Why not start with Australia?

Ill start with a by no means exhaustive list of the Chinese who’s money we should apparently take no matter what;

Tiananmen, Tibet, Social credit scores, South China Seas, Taiwan, Questionable loans to impoverished nations, the purchase of political influence, Money Laundering, Lack of independent judiciary, Treatment of Uighurs, Treatment of other Religious Groups, Intellectual copyright violations, Intellectual Property Violations, No press freedom,No political freedom, A President for life...

Oh yes of course George, getting close to the old ‘It’s Raaaacist’ argument. You’ll have to try harder than that.

Questioning the the integrity and intent of those businesses linked to the CCP, and those doing business with them has absolute merit.

More of it I say.

[Icarus2001]

How about the Australian governement planting listening devices in the cabinet room of the Timor Leste government?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_spying_scandal

[mattyj]

You and I might know that Virgin Australia is almost wholly owned outside of Australia and that nice Richard that flies balloons around the world has completely lost interest in it but the great unwashed public may not, and some of those are not averse to a bit of illogical Asian bashing either. The story is well designed to hit the desired target

[ExtraShot]

How about the Australian governement planting listening devices in the cabinet room of the Timor Leste government?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93East_Timor_spying_scandal


Ha. Is that your best? What do you reckon the Chinese are listening to at the moment?

[Stickshift3000]

This recent media has apparently improved the memories of some involved parties:

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/tailwinds-government-denials-heighten-intrigue-over-virgins-veiled-partners/

[George Glass]

So ExtraShot, you going to go to war over the Uighurs? How about we behave as an older, more mature nation and simply act in our own self interest? Spare me the moralising. Think Finland. Or maybe Singapore. Screw the hyperbole and up Defence spending to 3% of GDP. Drop the dependence on somebody else to save our sorry arses, stop being paranoid, and grow a couple. And then trade with them as normal. It’s called Real Politic.

[Rated De]

As those in the antipodes slowly awaken to reality, it is probable that the Sun is far gentler on one's back under US Hegemony rather than Chinese totalitarianism.

Defence of the realm is supposedly the first function of the Parliament, instead they hand it over for handfuls of fiat.
The Australian population has been happy to stand around BBQ's on a weekend regaling all with their investing savvy, noting how their house is worth over a million.
Of course cognitive dissonance being what it is, they tried hard to ignore the money laundered fiat bid from mainland Chinese, yet protested violently their loss of amenity and traffic jams as the immigration pumps were cranked up to three times their OECD historical average.

[dr dre]

As those in the antipodes slowly awaken to reality, it is probable that the Sun is far gentler on one's back under US Hegemony rather than Chinese totalitarianism.


But are we really under the “rule of Chinese totalitarianism” by allowing them to technically own a few small GA airports in the bush? Don’t forget all those regional ports run by flying schools are operated and controlled on a day to day basis by Australians and Westerners. From what I’ve heard they don’t disallow permission from third party operators to land there, and provide a valuable assistance for operators like the RFDS.

I doubt whether a Chinese communist party official has ever set foot on the grounds of any of the airfields except maybe once at the opening ceremony? They aren’t going to be used for a back door invasion of the country, nor a way to flood the country with cheap goods or migrants.

[Colonel_Klink]

But are we really under the “rule of Chinese totalitarianism” by allowing them to technically own a few small GA airports in the bush? Don’t forget all those regional ports run by flying schools are operated and controlled on a day to day basis by Australians and Westerners. From what I’ve heard they don’t disallow permission from third party operators to land there, and provide a valuable assistance for operators like the RFDS.

I doubt whether a Chinese communist party official has ever set foot on the grounds of any of the airfields except maybe once at the opening ceremony? They aren’t going to be used for a back door invasion of the country, nor a way to flood the country with cheap goods or migrants.

And this here is the point worth remembering - we are not selling off assets in this case to the Chinese. We are allowing them to open flying schools in regional Australia to train airline pilots.

There is an absolute legitimate argument to be made about whether the Australian government should be allowing the Chinese to purchase prime agricultural land, or take leases on Ports for 99 years, etc. In fact there is a whole different thread that could be started on why the Australian government shouldn’t be selling (or leasing) off strategic assets - Sydney airport anyone? Again - that is not the issue at play in this example.

I personally struggle to see what the risk is by allowing flying schools to be opened in regional towns across Australia. It’s good for local communities who will have a business now spending cash locally, employing local people (admin roles, additional airport staff, refuellers), having qualified people move to the town spending money renting houses (think flight instructors). I have worked at a flying school with Chinese cadets - the contract requires multiple townhouses to be rented, a cleaner was employed to go through each house once a week, and we had upwards of 70 students at a time each having to by food, etc at the local shopping centre. The economic benefits are not insignificant.

I wonder what the people of Meriden thought when CSWAFC closed its doors?

I wish people here would stop confusing the issue of selling off of national assets, to allowing foreign companies the ability to open a business here that otherwise would not exist.

[ExtraShot]

So ExtraShot, you going to go to war over the Uighurs? How about we behave as an older, more mature nation and simply act in our own self interest? Spare me the moralising. Think Finland. Or maybe Singapore. Screw the hyperbole and up Defence spending to 3% of GDP. Drop the dependence on somebody else to save our sorry arses, stop being paranoid, and grow a couple. And then trade with them as normal. It’s called Real Politic.

Sigh, ‘trade with them as normal’, which is all fine, until it’s not. It has been demonstrated time and time again already that the Chinese aren’t always interested in trading like the Japanese, the Singaporeans, the Americans, the Euros etc.

Why do some of us have concerns about alot of this investment? Well, as a 3000 + year old society, we know from history that the Chinese know about playing the long game.

Now Let’s see: 40000 plus to immigrate here from China year on year, for decade upon decade, with how many are still loyal to the CCP? No one can know for sure, but a threat to the Social Credit Score (or worse) of your family back in China might pull you into line should you want to adopt the freedoms of your new home. That becomes a significant voting population that get a say in our elections. We don’t like it, tough, they used our own stupidity against us, and if we reeeaaaly don’t like it, well, they own our Politicians, Ports (eg; Port of Darwin), power infrastructure, water infrastructure, and significant amounts of Agricultural land they’d by that time be using to feed their own; etc, etc.

Im all for increasing Defence spending, heck double it, a string of permanently equipped air/naval bases all across out Northern Coastline I say. However even acquiring our own Nuclear deterrent to move out of the influence of ALL other nations (and it’s pretty much the only thing that can achieve.that), isn’t going to make much of a difference in a case like the above. Are we going to nuke ourselves? Besides, as they say, why go to war when you can just buy what you want? Buy your political influence (our pollies are cheap! The Chinese know this well), and create your own voting bloc by stealth using our own bloated mass migration program.

Now, on face value I’m personally not against this deal in particular (it’s just a flying school yes?), nor necessarily am I against doing business with the Chinese, (though you have to question WHY Virgin hasn’t been upfront with who’s involved?) However, Questioning whether these business deals are in the national interest is entirely appropriate. I’d hope the FIRB would be including the DoD and and ASIO in their reviews of these kind of things as well. And if the government isnt doing it properly I’m glad some journalists, and people with the profile of Dick Smith are bringing attention to it.

But I know, I know, it’s all Reds Under the bed... or whatever.

[Asturias56]

I think you need to get out more .........

lets see FORTY THOUSAND A YEAR - well in 10 years time that 400,000 - but some will have died, some will be kids and so the number of voters- spread all across Australia ...... not significant. Of course you could coral them into one spot (maybe with e fence round it - you do fences in Australia - and perhaps some towers at the corners) but they'd only be able to elect 1 MP........

And if a faceless Chinese Corporation says to the Feds " You can't use the Port in Darwin" you just send a couple of police cars around and arrest anyone who gets in your way - unless you believe they 're going to hide a Division of the PLA on the premises somehow.....

"acquiring our own Nuclear deterrent" - just ask the Brits how much they are paying just to RENEW theirs... hell you can hardly afford to operate any conventional submarines right now

"create your own voting bloc by stealth " - ah yes - "before you leave China for Australia Comrade I want you and your family to SWEAR you'll always support whatever politicians President Xi says you should support in Australia" - because all those Poms, Greeks, Slavs., Italians, Islanders and Kiwis do the same................

[ExtraShot]

If you think that there isn’t a significant population of Mainland Chinese here who are loyal to the every wish of the CCP you are a fool. But Believe what you want. Don’t say you weren’t warned, as I said, they play the Long Game, you’ll likely be long gone and so will I. We will have sold ourselves and our kids down the river for Two Pieces of Silver. There are good reasons why ASIO and the like get concerned by these things.

At least you or your families social credit scores will be good though, hey?

[777Nine]

I’m not saying every country does, but not every other country is an Authoritarian Communist Dictatorship with such extremes expansionist ambitions.

But if you insist. Off you go then. Let’s have a few examples. Why not start with Australia?

Ill start with a by no means exhaustive list of the Chinese who’s money we should apparently take no matter what;

Tiananmen, Tibet, Social credit scores, South China Seas, Taiwan, Questionable loans to impoverished nations, the purchase of political influence, Money Laundering, Lack of independent judiciary, Treatment of Uighurs, Treatment of other Religious Groups, Intellectual copyright violations, Intellectual Property Violations, No press freedom,No political freedom, A President for life...

Oh yes of course George, getting close to the old ‘It’s Raaaacist’ argument. You’ll have to try harder than that.

Questioning the the integrity and intent of those businesses linked to the CCP, and those doing business with them has absolute merit.

More of it I say.



​​​​​​​Make sure that you don't ever buy any product that is stamped 'Made in China'. Otherwise you are supporting an authoratarian dictatorship.

[ExtraShot]

Make sure that you don't ever buy any product that is stamped 'Made in China'. Otherwise you are supporting an authoratarian dictatorship.


Indeed you are. Difficult to avoid, but certainly no reason to continue to cede sovereignty/security to them.

[morno]

Right, and back to the Virgin thing?

[Berealgetreal]

I get a little sick and tired of Virgin having the boots sunk into it because of its ownership structure. Virgin is majority foreign owned, which it is perfectly entitled to be. But what perhaps Dick Smith and the like seem to forget is that they employ 10,000 Australians. I know my family don’t give two hoots about the fact some Chinese companies own a minority stake in Virgin, they just care that the pay cheque arrives every fortnight. And I bet that is the case for the other 10000 families that Virgin have employees with.

Spot on. Is every other company in this country Australian owned? Are all companies that operate in respective countries owned by the respective citizens?

Personally I don’t care who owns a company, all I care about is a good product and service. The fact 10,000 Australian families can put food on the table pay taxes and not be on the dole is even better.

All good and well having a bash at the Chinese but watch what happens if they pull ALL their money out overnight, the place would simply collapse. The time/opportunity for self sufficiency been and gone we are now totally addicted to their business and money better get used to it as you’ll see more and more of it (if we are lucky).

[777Nine]

Indeed you are. Difficult to avoid, but certainly no reason to continue to cede sovereignty/security to them.

But then by the same token, their system has benefited a lot of Western companies with their cheap labour. So there is argument that a lot of businesses in this day and age rely on China (think Apple) and it hasn't been all negative (i.e the phone in our hand for a relatively cheap price).

I do agree that we shouldn't cede our sovereignty, but Australia being Australia we're too piss weak to call it like it is and then someone will bang on about being politically correct.

I feel that with the right policy and strategy, it can be managed to both country's benefit, rather than it being a one way street.

[Asturias56]

"If you think that there isn’t a significant population of Mainland Chinese here who are loyal to the every wish of the CCP"

Would it be too much to ask you to provide some evidence of this? Other than a quote from your mate in the Legion bar late last Saturday?

perhaps an email from President Xi? Or an email or letter from anyone in China saying "for gods sake son vote PRC in the next Aussie election or we're for the re-education camp?"

Or even one of their (not so veiled) threatening newspaper articles??????

AS other have pointed out trade is a 2 way street and benefits both sides - otherwise it wouldn't happen................

[neville_nobody]

AS other have pointed out trade is a 2 way street and benefits both sides - otherwise it wouldn't happen

I would suggest that the 'one belt one road' policy is pretty much a one way street. And that road isn't heading to Canberra

[dr dre]

Something tells me, despite all the calls on this thread to “stand up to China”, there won’t be any 21yr old newly graduated Grade 3 instructors who’ll knock back a full time job at one of these Chinese owned academies because they don’t want to support an authoritarian government.

[Manwell]

Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?

[ExtraShot]

Evidence? Happy to Oblige;


Individuals (https://amp.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/award-recipients-communist-ties/news-story/c89136870dfa5dfe7acd029ec7265e4c)

Threats to Individual migrants (https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-04/the-chinese-communist-partys-power-and-influence-in-australia/8584270)

Just A bit of ‘leaning’ on some individuals (https://amp.smh.com.au/opinion/chinese-influence-is-more-than-just-soft-power-and-we-need-to-call-it-out-20170922-gymr4z.html)

Using and Influencing Students (https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/china-attempting-to-influence-australian-society-through-8921124)

Just a little bit of ‘Networking’ (https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/political-networking-the-chinese-way--a-sydney-mp-and-his-community-adviser-20170622-gww0k6.html)

Ahh WeChat. (https://au.finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/ahead-elections-concerns-being-raised-044020896.html)

I’m sure we could find a few Australian Chinese Migrants who feel the same. (https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/03/04/why-some-chinese-immigrants-living-canada-live-silent-fear)


There’s plenty more if you need it.

Just a disclaimer in all this. The Chinese Government is not the Chinese People. As you can see from the articles above, most immigrants from that part of the world would likely want Australia to protect its National / Strategic interests as much as (no, I would say MORE than), anybody. Most of them came to escape that System, just like we will see many Hong Kong locals looking to head this way soon no doubt. They would be quietly devastated to see us letting it encroach into our Society, and seeing us not properly vetting those individuals/organisations who have less ‘freedom oriented’ intentions than most of us would like.

[Colonel_Klink]

Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?

Perhaps those that can’t delineate between buying an asset and starting a business are perhaps the ones that don’t understand the problem.

We are talking about the Chinese starting flying schools. I have not seen a single person posting here that is supportive of enabling the Chinese to be able to purchase strategic assets like airports, or ports, or telecommunication networks - so stop trying to confuse the issue.

A minor point but to claim that Tamworth is still a military training base is a stretch too considering that BFTS shuts up shop and moves completely to East Sale in a few months.

And the final point - a job is a job when times are tough. That is totally correct - have you ever been unemployed and not knowing where the next pay cheque is coming from? Do you know many (any?) people in some of these rural towns that are being significantly affected by drought? As I’ve stated before - the Chinese starting a business results in significant economic benefit to that town. And yes jobs - because without jobs, and without the people in those towns being employed, the whole fabric of the community slowly dies.

You could probably say something similar to this happened to Virgin itself. It was struggling for cash a few years ago when times were getting tough - and the foreign (one, and then two Chinese investors) came in and supplied equity into the business. As such the airline continues, 10,000 people still have jobs and each of those people themselves spend money, pay tax and contribute to the economy. So yes - it’s about jobs.

[dr dre]

We are talking about the Chinese starting flying schools.

Primarily the Chinese are starting flying school at airports to train their civil airline pilots. Not their military pilots, not use the airports to transport cheap goods or low paid workers into the country, not use them as bases for an armed invasion of the country. They are starting them solely to take advantage of Australia’s expertise in flying training and to make their civil aviation sector safer. There’s no nefarious intent.

Contrast that to the other foreign power with great influence in Australia. The one that imprisons it’s own citizens at a rate 5 times higher than China, (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) that has interfered in the elections of numerous counties, (https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-interfered-in-elections-of-at-least-85-countries-worldwide-since-1945/5601481) including this one


Which has bombed or attacked dozens of countries compared to China’s very few, (https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US/Bombing_campaigns_since_1945) and is now considered a flawed democracy. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/america-democracy-rated-donald-trump-not-fully-democratic-us-president-report-the-economist-a8195121.html)

We allow this country to base it’s armed combat troops, spy bases and nuclear powered aircraft carriers in our country and there’s barely a peep from any side of politics or the media, but when the Chinese want to start flying schools at some remote airports that no one else would be using to train their civil airline pilots to safer standards using our expertise and provide jobs and income for struggling rural communities suddenly it becomes a secret plot to take over our country.

[Manwell]

Perhaps those that can’t delineate between buying an asset and starting a business are perhaps the ones that don’t understand the problem. Perhaps Col. Perhaps that's just obfuscation of the problem.

We are talking about the Chinese starting flying schools. I have not seen a single person posting here that is supportive of enabling the Chinese to be able to purchase strategic assets like airports, or ports, or telecommunication networks - so stop trying to confuse the issue. I'm not trying to confuse the issue, I'm trying to give you a subtle hint that there is more to something than it seems, and you are trying to suggest that the Chinese starting flying schools doesn't count, which is denial that there is a problem, and that's very much like confusing the issue to me....

A minor point but to claim that Tamworth is still a military training base is a stretch too considering that BFTS shuts up shop and moves completely to East Sale in a few months. As I said, you don't understand the scale and scope of the problem.
As Dick Cheney famously said, "There are known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns." It's what you don't know you don't know is the problem, and as long as you act as if you know everything you won't learn what that is.

And the final point - a job is a job when times are tough. That is totally correct - have you ever been unemployed and not knowing where the next pay cheque is coming from? Do you know many (any?) people in some of these rural towns that are being significantly affected by drought? As I’ve stated before - the Chinese starting a business results in significant economic benefit to that town. And yes jobs - because without jobs, and without the people in those towns being employed, the whole fabric of the community slowly dies.

Yes, I have been unemployed many times, and I'm now unemployed, or you could say retired. Was it tough? Yes, it was a bit, but not worth selling my soul or selling out my country over. A man's gotta have principles or he's not a man. As I said before, and I say again, you simply don't know the size and scope of the problem. Either that or you do, and are playing dumb. The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago. That glue was social cohesion gained as a result of working together instead of against each other. Don't get me started on rural problems. That's more than you can handle.

You could probably say something similar to this happened to Virgin itself. It was struggling for cash a few years ago when times were getting tough - and the foreign (one, and then two Chinese investors) came in and supplied equity into the business. As such the airline continues, 10,000 people still have jobs and each of those people themselves spend money, pay tax and contribute to the economy. So yes - it’s about jobs.

So everything is all neatly and conveniently packaged so you can comprehend it. Isn't it great to think the average man can think he knows what's going on, and yet still have no idea? How much tax did Virgin pay last year Col? Let me see if I can dig the figure up for you.... there it is.... $0. And they've got over 2 billion more in tax losses to carry forward probably from aircraft purchases that definitely contribute to foreign economies.

[Manwell]

Primarily the Chinese are starting flying school at airports to train their civil airline pilots. Not their military pilots, not use the airports to transport cheap goods or low paid workers into the country, not use them as bases for an armed invasion of the country. They are starting them solely to take advantage of Australia’s expertise in flying training and to make their civil aviation sector safer. There’s no nefarious intent.

Contrast that to the other foreign power with great influence in Australia. The one that imprisons it’s own citizens at a rate 5 times higher than China, (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) that has interfered in the elections of numerous counties, (https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-interfered-in-elections-of-at-least-85-countries-worldwide-since-1945/5601481) including this one (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dpx4o_uaGg)


Think the thin end of the wedge, and that both, not just one, are the problem. In fact, there are many more foreign governments active in Australia at the highest levels. Some have been here so long we don't even regard them as foreign or enemies.

[Rated De]

Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?

Quite right.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" -Upton Sinclair

[dr dre]

Those who are defending Chinese buying out our assets, including a military training base, simply don't understand the full scope and size of the problem. On the other hand, maybe they do know the size and scope of the problem intimately, because they're part of the problem. When times are tough, a job is a job, right?

The Chinese are not buying out a “military training base”. Tamworth is a civilian airport run by a civilian shire council that, amongst other operators, contained a civilian flying school that had a contract for some military training.

Now the military is leaving and a civilian training operation will be set up on those premises.

And why shouldn’t those who are affected by it have a say in it? If a bunch of of loudmouths kick up a stink about this school and the Chinese decide to withdraw their investments who wants to go up to all the newly unemployed flying instructors and say to them it was a good thing they lost their jobs?

I can say those who oppose Chinese investment in our flying training sector almost certainly have the fortune of not being a newly graduated grade 3 looking for work.

[Asturias56]

" The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago."

but that world has changed, long gone and will never return....

You can either accept it and move on or sit in a corner, ranting and raging while people & events just pass you by. I sympathise, I really do - there is much of the current world and society I don't like either

Few people like change but we all have to put up with it.

If you fix any society in one place it works for a few years and then it gradually means a larger and larger eventual correction - think Russia 1914, Japan 1850 or China 1900....................

[Manwell]

" The whole fabric of a community dies when the glue that holds that fabric together is dissolved. That glue was women who stayed at home and served their families up until 40 or 50 years ago."

but that world has changed, long gone and will never return....

You can either accept it and move on or sit in a corner, ranting and raging while people & events just pass you by. I sympathise, I really do - there is much of the current world and society I don't like either

Few people like change but we all have to put up with it.

If you fix any society in one place it works for a few years and then it gradually means a larger and larger eventual correction - think Russia 1914, Japan 1850 or China 1900....................

Asturias, we may have had to put up with it when we were young, but in case you haven't noticed, we're elders now, at least I am, and if the elders in society simply run off and kick up their heels on retirement like they're programmed to do, then the powers that be get a free ride. There is a reason previous changes didn't work for long, and it boils down to underestimating the enemy. Much like people are doing now.

Anyway, when Billy Shakespeare said "To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and, so doing, end them..." I reckon he favoured being, wouldn't you?

[AerialPerspective]

If you think that there isn’t a significant population of Mainland Chinese here who are loyal to the every wish of the CCP you are a fool. But Believe what you want. Don’t say you weren’t warned, as I said, they play the Long Game, you’ll likely be long gone and so will I. We will have sold ourselves and our kids down the river for Two Pieces of Silver. There are good reasons why ASIO and the like get concerned by these things.

At least you or your families social credit scores will be good though, hey?

What an exaggerated load of codswallop... United States and UK investment in Australia makes Chinese investment look like a pimple.
The media and the Australian government are big on anti-China rhetoric, bemoaning the activities by China in the South China Sea while at the same time having our Australian intelligence people apparently break in to Timor L'Este's lawyers offices in an attempt to gain information to enable Australia to defeat TL in court and then take the natural resources from a poor little country, that it's people are relying on to build wealth. As if that's not enough, they refuse all demands to return the documents and THEN they decide to persecute the person that blew the whistle on this b-stardry.
We are just as bad as the Chinese in many respects. We also raid journalists homes, our government classifies everything it thinks might cause it embarrassment and then relentlessly pursues anyone under the fanciful guise of national security for exposing it. A case was even opened agains those alleged to have exposed the apparent Au Pair visa scandal. This government has also passed laws that hold people to account but exempt the Home Affairs Minister from prosecution.
Grow up, we don't need China to take over, we are already a police state.

[Asturias56]

"Anyway, when Billy Shakespeare said "To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and, so doing, end them..." I reckon he favoured being, wouldn't you?"

As I remember my school English Lit ( a v long time ago) Hamlet died from a poisoned sword.................................. I hope to avoid that particular ending................

But yes, I'm sure we'll find a scratched message on a wall in the Dordogne ".... bloody kids... fire... FIRE! ... no good will come of it, mark my words... but do they listen to me ? A 35 yr old elder?? Noooooooooo - it'll be wearing skins next - I tell you.. listen to me...."

[C441]

Fairfax are reporting that the connection between Virgin and the Chinese may be replaced by Turkish Airlines:

"Turkish Airlines is interested in HNA Group's minority stake in Virgin Australia as it seeks growth in the Asia-Pacific region, according to people familiar with the matter.

Turkey’s national flag-carrier, or Turk Hava Yollari as it’s formally known, is among companies looking at HNA’s 20 per cent stake in the airline, said the people, asking not to be named because the discussions are private. Deliberations are preliminary and may not result in a deal, the people said."

[Manwell]

What an exaggerated load of codswallop... United States and UK investment in Australia makes Chinese investment look like a pimple.
The media and the Australian government are big on anti-China rhetoric, bemoaning the activities by China in the South China Sea while at the same time having our Australian intelligence people apparently break in to Timor L'Este's lawyers offices in an attempt to gain information to enable Australia to defeat TL in court and then take the natural resources from a poor little country, that it's people are relying on to build wealth. As if that's not enough, they refuse all demands to return the documents and THEN they decide to persecute the person that blew the whistle on this b-stardry.
We are just as bad as the Chinese in many respects. We also raid journalists homes, our government classifies everything it thinks might cause it embarrassment and then relentlessly pursues anyone under the fanciful guise of national security for exposing it. A case was even opened agains those alleged to have exposed the apparent Au Pair visa scandal. This government has also passed laws that hold people to account but exempt the Home Affairs Minister from prosecution.
Grow up, we don't need China to take over, we are already a police state.

While I agree with your Aerial Perspective, it's actually understating the problem, rather than an exaggerated load of codswallop. It's more a case that the Chinese invasion isn't so bad because everyone else, including countries we regard as allies, have invaded too, AND our own Government has bee infiltrated and many others have been subverted. It would be difficult to explain everything clearly using this medium, but at least the clues are here for anyone with a mind to deduce, induce, or research, the rest. The truth is out there, but most of us would pick ourselves up and hastily scurry away if we tripped over it, because we prefer blissful ignorance.

[Karunch]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_8219_d4b0acf8935ee7ba80c227c51796a5dbebb775b2.jpg
Daxing this morning. Not many nearby residents.