2 More Jetstar A320’s to Network

[Ollie Onion]

Just been announced that 2 more Jetstar A320’s are to be transferred to Network aviation due to a ‘resurgence’ in the mining sector. Seems to now be a solid transfer of work to another perhaps cheaper entity.

[crosscutter]

Transfer of business....As defined by the FWA? Or Is it Qantas deploying their resources to enable other resources to be utilised elsewhere for the greater good? Time will tell. Perhaps the soft economy is taking its toll on the leisure market?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12246312

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

It makes sense that the arrival of the A321neoLRs will allow older A320s to be sent to Network. It is a little strange (perhaps concerning) that 2 will leave the JQ fleet 6-9 months before the first Neo is due to arrive. Perhaps the soon to be implemented pairing optimiser is predicted to get sufficient hours out of the remaining airframes to cover the lost aircraft (with the exception of CHC-SYD).

The word is that the 18 A321neoLRs will lead to roughly 6 extra airframes in the JQ fleet, with approximately the 12 oldest to be pushed out (the aircraft which did not receive the new 186 seat config).

Today’s announcement continues to confirm the theory that many of the JQ A320 CEOs will find their way to Network.

[Rated De]

Today’s announcement continues to confirm the theory that many of the JQ A320 CEOs will find their way to Network.

As was posited, the sheer volume of the non-cancellable JQ order totaling AUD$9.5 billion meant that the business had to find a way to re-cycle airframes.
As has been discussed the JQ business is overscale and as such finding a 'home' for the surplus aircraft.

Some lovely coincidence that it happens to be contract season.

Of course the reality that Network can't find a pilot to fly them will not stop the aircraft coming.

[dr dre]

Of course the reality that Network can't find a pilot to fly them will not stop the aircraft coming.

The existing F100 pilots. Those aircraft are getting long in the tooth and don’t have long left. It’ll actually help as there are less airframes so less pilots required but more seats to move a similar number of pax, helping with any future crew shortages.

[f1yhigh]

Just as I thought. Is it that more A320s to Network frees up B737s and if so to what end? B737s taking on quite a few of the A330 east-west sectors, what of the freed up A330s then? Interesting times ahead. When would one speculate QF get the JQ B788s?

[PoppaJo]

There is probably 15-20 Jetstar Airbus that are ready to be removed in that they are already on short term lease renewal as it is. There is only 2 A321s that are needing scrap.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

There is probably 15-20 Jetstar Airbus that are ready to be removed in that they are already on short term lease renewal as it is. There is only 2 A321s that are needing scrap.

Given that only 12 A320 airfcraft did not undergo the cabin enhancement project (the reconfiguring to 186 seats) my bet is that it will be this number that leaves the JQ fleet.

The CEP only finished a few months ago, so it would be unlikely that an airframe would be taken offline for a month and the money spent on 186 slimline seats just to get rid of it a year later.

[Australopithecus]

Given that only 12 A320 airfcraft did not undergo the cabin enhancement project (the reconfiguring to 186 seats) my bet is that it will be this number that leaves the JQ fleet.

The CEP only finished a few months ago, so it would be unlikely that an airframe would be taken offline for a month and the money spent on 186 slimline seats just to get rid of it a year later.

That depends if there was head office involvement. They’ve refurbished plenty of aircraft in time for the ferry flight to the boneyard. .

[Icarus2001]

Just as I thought. Is it that more A320s to Network frees up B737s and if so to what end? Can you explain which B737s f1yhigh?

[Beer Baron]

As was posited, the sheer volume of the non-cancellable JQ order totaling AUD$9.5 billion meant that the business had to find a way to re-cycle airframes.
As has been discussed the JQ business is overscale and as such finding a 'home' for the surplus aircraft.
Doesn’t that argument fall apart when one considers they added 10 more aircraft to that order just last month?
Odd thing to do if they had orders they didn’t want and can’t cancel.

[Ragnor]

When would one speculate QF get the JQ B788s?

Could be sooner than you think! I’ve heard two 78 base closures next year as they can use 321s for the Japan flying when they arrive.

[f1yhigh]

Can you explain which B737s f1yhigh?

The WA regional flights. At the moment it's a mix of F100s, B737s, B717s and the two A320s (soon to be two more). Two more Network A320s would free up B737s, am I correct?

Edit: and if we are to expect more Network A320s in the future... what of the freed up airframes?

[PoppaJo]

Doesn’t that argument fall apart when one considers they added 10 more aircraft to that order just last month?
Odd thing to do if they had orders they didn’t want and can’t cancel.
That’s more a negotiation technique. Essentially they have now upped the order with newfound associated flexibility to stretch orders into late next decade. Basically they have purchased wriggle room from previous piss poor decision making.

Virgin did the same. Pushed aircraft back to mid to late next decade at the cost of upgrading a lot of -8s to -10.

Basically, Give them more cash and new options open up otherwise your delivery schedule ain’t changing.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

That’s more a negotiation technique. Essentially they have now upped the order with newfound associated flexibility to stretch orders into late next decade. Basically they have purchased wriggle room from previous piss poor decision making.

Virgin did the same. Pushed aircraft back to mid to late next decade at the cost of upgrading a lot of -8s to -10.

Basically, Give them more cash and new options open up otherwise your delivery schedule ain’t changing.

The QF group have moved the delivery schedule around quite a bit without having to order more aircraft. The first A320neo was originally due in 2014 I believe... then 2016... 2018... and now (hopefully) 2020.

[f1yhigh]

Could be sooner than you think! I’ve heard two 78 base closures next year as they can use 321s for the Japan flying when they arrive.

Very interesting! Watching this space, interesting times ahead.

[topend3]

where is this "announcement" couldn't see it anywhere

[Ollie Onion]

Company email yesterday

[B767MAD]

Company email yesterday

No one outside of Network has seen any email. So much for "... only two" etc

[Ollie Onion]

Definitely a Jetstar company wide email announcement yesterday.

[wheels_down]

VQQ and VQR?

[ExtraShot]

Ha! Why would Qantas Pilots need to see an announcement? It’s only their flying increasingly being siphoned off.

Two more 737 airframes freed up... great, weren’t there 737 airframes freed up from the Darwin -Alice flying that’s going? Where is all this extra work for these 737s? Oh, and hint hint, it’s all Perth based 737 stuff... what need is there for a 737 base in Perth anymore? Surely what’s left after Network could all be done from the east coast?

[f1yhigh]

Where is all this extra work for these 737s? Oh, and hint hint, it’s all Perth based 737 stuff... what need is there for a 737 base in Perth anymore?

Is QF allowed to completely replace Perth base 737 with Network?

As you and I are wondering, ExtraShot, what of the freed up 737 airframes?

[Transition Layer]

Ha! Why would Qantas Pilots need to see an announcement? It’s only their flying increasingly being siphoned off.

Two more 737 airframes freed up... great, weren’t there 737 airframes freed up from the Darwin -Alice flying that’s going? Where is all this extra work for these 737s? Oh, and hint hint, it’s all Perth based 737 stuff... what need is there for a 737 base in Perth anymore? Surely what’s left after Network could all be done from the east coast?

QF Perth Base Manager sent an email to the troops, bit light on detail though apart from planned entry into service dates.

The biggest problem will be finding pilots to fill RHS 737 positions in PER. If you put your hand up on day 1 the position is all yours.The big question though is why don’t Network have the same problem filling positions, when the terms and conditions are far inferior to Mainline? Or do they....

[Arthur D]

QF Perth Base Manager sent an email to the troops, bit light on detail though apart from planned entry into service dates.

The biggest problem will be finding pilots to fill RHS 737 positions in PER. If you put your hand up on day 1 the position is all yours.The big question though is why don’t Network have the same problem filling positions, when the terms and conditions are far inferior to Mainline? Or do they....

Maybe because they recognise experience and it doesn’t take 20 years to get a command.....

just saying

[morno]

Maybe because they recognise experience and it doesn’t take 20 years to get a command.....

just saying

:D

..........

[Going Boeing]

Maybe because they recognise experience and it doesn’t take 20 years to get a command.....
I suspect that the JQ pilots might be getting alarmed at this development. The "20 year to Command" at QF was caused by flying being transferred to JQ. Now that JQ has reached its "mature size" with many relatively young captains, the time to command will be increasing and this could be made worse if flying gets transferred to Network.

Network could do to Jetstar what Jetstar did to Qantas.

[gtseraf]

I suspect that the JQ pilots might be getting alarmed at this development. The "20 year to Command" at QF was caused by flying being transferred to JQ. Now that JQ has reached its "mature size" with many relatively young captains, the time to command will be increasing and this could be made worse if flying gets transferred to Network.

Network could do to Jetstar what Jetstar did to Qantas.


Ironic, isn't it!

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

The general consensus over here at JQ is that the Perth based QF 737 guys might be in trouble.

We’re getting 18 brand new Airbuses over the next couple of years. We don’t mind losing a few clapped out classics.

[Jc31]

The general consensus over here at JQ is that the Perth based QF 737 guys might be in trouble.

We’re getting 18 brand new Airbuses over the next couple of years. We don’t mind losing a few clapped out classics.

id say that the Perth based jq guys might be in trouble also

[SandyPalms]

You blokes at Jetstar spend your time discussing QF bases? How boring.

Of course, nobody knows what the future holds, but at the moment the QF 737 base in PER is bigger than it was when they did the last base balancing. Its almost the same size as brisbane.
You can add that into the bar talk. You'll be the hit of the party.

[AussieAviator]

ACCC decision regarding Qantas buying Alliance is due this month. Alan Joyce said in a press release two weeks ago that he expects it to be approved and if that comes to be, then he wants full ownership of Alliance by end of this year. He also wants to keep current Alliance management in place, so maybe the grand plan is to eventually send some A320's to Alliance and end up with a massive inflow of FIFO workers into the QF system, Australia wide. As it is, Alliance is the largest operator of Fokkers in the world and also controls most of the ever diminishing spare part inventory. Interesting times for both Network/Alliance pilots!

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

You blokes at Jetstar spend your time discussing QF bases? How boring.

Of course, nobody knows what the future holds, but at the moment the QF 737 base in PER is bigger than it was when they did the last base balancing. Its almost the same size as brisbane.
You can add that into the bar talk. You'll be the hit of the party.

Believe it or not I don’t talk work at parties or at the bar! Only when I’m bored on the fourth sector and we’ve finished talking about the footy. Or when I’m equally bored on days off on PPRUNE 😂

[ExtraShot]

The big question though is why don’t Network have the same problem filling positions, when the terms and conditions are far inferior to Mainline?

Indeed, is there a prominent use of the ‘Skilled Visa’ program within Network? I mean, let’s face it, every other industry is using the Skilled Visa program to suppress wages, why not Aviation?

[rep]

The general consensus over here at JQ is that the Perth based QF 737 guys might be in trouble.

We’re getting 18 brand new Airbuses over the next couple of years. We don’t mind losing a few clapped out classics.
You should add the loss of 11 787s into your daily mainline chat.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

You should add the loss of 11 787s into your daily mainline chat.

We’ve just announced a new route (OOL-ICN) and are upgrading Capts, FOs and training new SOs to the 787.

That doesn’t sound like something an airline that about to get rid of a type does.

At best QF might get the 3 788s freed up from the Bali routes as the A321LRs arrive and in 2024 onwards the rest of the 788s if/when JQ get the A321XLRs.

Ill add this quote from last month article in the Sydney Morning Herald from Jetstar CEO Gareth Evans

"We’re going to see over the next two or three years as we execute on that, 30, 40 per cent growth in the Jetstar Australian international business," says Evans.

[PoppaJo]

How are they going to operate HNL? SGN? ICN? HKT?

You really think they will just pull out of all these routes gifting HA, TG all the traffic?

[dr dre]

Of course, nobody knows what the future holds, but at the moment the QF 737 base in PER is bigger than it was when they did the last base balancing. Its almost the same size as brisbane.


And most transcon flying now the on the 73’, plus a resurgence in mining, I don’t think they have much to worry about there.

Doesnt the JQ base out of Perth only operate 3 flights a day to Bali? I’d be more worried about that....

[Transition Layer]

Maybe because they recognise experience and it doesn’t take 20 years to get a command.....

just saying

I’ll happily sit in the RHS for 20 years with better terms and conditions, plus options for a more diverse career, than the LHS at Network flogging up and back to The Pilbara.

Command ain’t everything...just saying

[Blueskymine]

And most transcon flying now the on the 73’, plus a resurgence in mining, I don’t think they have much to worry about there.

Doesnt the JQ base out of Perth only operate 3 flights a day to Bali? I’d be more worried about that....


It’s pretty much two as east coasters crew the middle of the day flight.

With FRMS and night stops for the BOC flights I’d imagine it wouldn’t take much effort to crew the other two with out of towners.

Unless there’s a big expansion in Perth.

[das Uber Soldat]

You should add the loss of 11 787s into your daily mainline chat.
And deprive you lot of yet another reason to cry about how jq ruined your career?

I think we'll hold into them thanks.

[goodonyamate]

It may not be all 11, but they are coming.

and yes, JQ did ruin a lot of careers, maybe none more so than the poor saps who work there, flogging themselves to death everyday for sh$t pay. Enjoy. How many years until retirement?

[das Uber Soldat]

It may not be all 11, but they are coming.

and yes, JQ did ruin a lot of careers, maybe none more so than the poor saps who work there, flogging themselves to death everyday for sh$t pay. Enjoy. How many years until retirement?
That's the way, we should have all just sat around unemployed for fear of ruining your 400k a year part time job. A thousand apologies.

[goodonyamate]

400k? Where do I sign up?

[morno]

It may not be all 11, but they are coming.

and yes, JQ did ruin a lot of careers, maybe none more so than the poor saps who work there, flogging themselves to death everyday for sh$t pay. Enjoy. How many years until retirement?

Yeah, because Qantas was going to grow so massively and employ so many pilots :rolleyes:

Your boss saw a market and he created a product to supply that market. Just because you didn’t take advantage of it doesn’t mean you should be a cranky sod about those who did.

[LTBC]

Yeah, because Qantas was going to grow so massively and employ so many pilots :rolleyes:

Your boss saw a market and he created a product to supply that market. Just because you didn’t take advantage of it doesn’t mean you should be a cranky sod about those who did.







Nothing wrong with a different business for a different market.

But the continual segregation of pilots within the same parent organisation is a shame. Why get personal and help them morno? :rolleyes:

[Ollie Onion]

And Qantas management plans are complete! A series of competing pilot groups who are willing to undercut each other for a perceived advantage as bestowed upon them by management.

[Rated De]

Yeah, because Qantas was going to grow so massively and employ so many pilots :rolleyes:

Your boss saw a market and he created a product to supply that market. Just because you didn’t take advantage of it doesn’t mean you should be a cranky sod about those who did.



A correction.
Little Napoleon did not create Jetstar, he was still at Ansett when it was pitched to QF management by consultants.

[das Uber Soldat]

And Qantas management plans are complete! A series of competing pilot groups who are willing to undercut each other for a perceived advantage as bestowed upon them by management.
I certainly don't look to undercut anyone. Mainline could push for a million dollars a year and I'd be happy for them.

What grinds me is the attitude displayed but a select few muppets such as the one above that JQ pilots are somehow responsible for whatever stagnation they suffered at mainline (and of course ignoring the massive advantage they took from the collapse of Ansett) and deserve the subpar pay or high workload we endure. "Enjoy" was the comment made, along with a snide remark about how long till retirement. Insufferable arrogance.

I took the job that was available. The reality is that mainline simply didn't hire anyone for a decade. Had they offered me a job I'd have happily taken it, but the market didn't provide that opportunity. What else am I to do? Refuse an airline job to protect people earning 5 times what I am on in GA and rot there? Its absurd.

Direct your angst at the management that decided to drive growth outside of mainline, not at the drivers who simply grabbed hold of the only thing that was available.

[What The]

Direct your angst at the management that decided to drive growth outside of mainline, not at the drivers who simply grabbed hold of the only thing that was available.

Well said.

[morno]

A correction.
Little Napoleon did not create Jetstar, he was still at Ansett when it was pitched to QF management by consultants.

I just said “your boss”. I know it wasn’t Joyce

[morno]

I certainly don't look to undercut anyone. Mainline could push for a million dollars a year and I'd be happy for them.

What grinds me is the attitude displayed but a select few muppets such as the one above that JQ pilots are somehow responsible for whatever stagnation they suffered at mainline (and of course ignoring the massive advantage they took from the collapse of Ansett) and deserve the subpar pay or high workload we endure. "Enjoy" was the comment made, along with a snide remark about how long till retirement. Insufferable arrogance.

I took the job that was available. The reality is that mainline simply didn't hire anyone for a decade. Had they offered me a job I'd have happily taken it, but the market didn't provide that opportunity. What else am I to do? Refuse an airline job to protect people earning 5 times what I am on in GA and rot there? Its absurd.

Direct your angst at the management that decided to drive growth outside of mainline, not at the drivers who simply grabbed hold of the only thing that was available.

Bravo, well said. It’s happened, Jetstar is here to stay.

I highly doubt Qantas would ever have grown to the extent that Jetstar has, so this in turn has created more pilot jobs in Australia than would have been created providing “a career” to existing Qantas pilots. You are there to do your job. Your job is to be a pilot for Qantas. If you happen to get some advancement in the meantime, great. Otherwise Qantas is not there simply to tend to your careers.

[goodonyamate]

And deprive you lot of yet another reason to cry about how jq ruined your career?

I think we'll hold into them thanks.

insufferable arrogance

couldnt agree more.

[Rated De]

Bravo, well said. It’s happened, Jetstar is here to stay.

I highly doubt Qantas would ever have grown to the extent that Jetstar has, so this in turn has created more pilot jobs in Australia than would have been created providing “a career” to existing Qantas pilots. You are there to do your job. Your job is to be a pilot for Qantas. If you happen to get some advancement in the meantime, great. Otherwise Qantas is not there simply to tend to your careers.



Jetstar's presence is likely not the source of concern, it does play a role.
At the juncture, Qantas had a choice either re-equip as the fleet gifted by the Australian taxpayer aged, or 'greenfield' an entire airline and hope to drive unit cost lower without destroying revenue.
That Qantas chose the latter and in so doing squandered operating margin is disappointing. It remains impossible to measure, as any unknown-unknown is, however compared to peer airlines it has gone backwards as a group. Alleged lower unit cost aside, many Qantas pilots assumed that a career path existed, a career path that Qantas management didn't dare tell them had evaporated in a lost decade.

It is as plausible that as Jetstar's model is saturated, with a mid cost base, Qantas IR again play the same song and 'greenfield' other entities, with fleet and routes, to lower unit cost. As a more mature business those JQ pilots sitting in the right hand seat may have to wait for retirements rather than growth to further their career.

A tune Qantas pilots are familiar with.

[das Uber Soldat]

Jetstar's presence is likely not the source of concern, it does play a role.
many Qantas pilots assumed that a career path existed, a career path that Qantas management didn't dare tell them had evaporated in a lost decade.
I didn't see these Qantas pilots complaining when after the failure of Ansett the Qantas fleet increased by nearly a third in just 5 years?

You're a fool if you assume you're entitled to a thing in aviation.

[crosscutter]

I can’t speak for all of course....but the vast vast majority of QF pilots have no ill feeling towards JQ pilots. In fact a few have relatives who work for JQ and understand the reality of the last decade. The frustration is with management and their decisions.

Nevertheless, there are people on both sides with an axe to grind. It was the JPC who pushed for the Darwin base freeze for MOU pilots and the mandatory 6 month FO stint before command...why? Now the shoe is on the other foot perhaps JQ MOU pilots should be frozen to Perth. I’m just pointing out that before people start yelling from an unearned pedestal we appreciate that the majority have opinions no where near the extremity suggested on this faceless forum.

[Asturias56]

Hey guys - Australian isn't my first language but isn't

" majority of QF pilots have no ill feeling towards JQ pilots. In fact a few have relatives who work for JQ"

a bit patronizing as in

"Some of my best friends are ............. (insert minority)"

[Rated De]

I can’t speak for all of course....but the vast vast majority of QF pilots have no ill feeling towards JQ pilots. In fact a few have relatives who work for JQ and understand the reality of the last decade. The frustration is with management and their decisions.

Nevertheless, there are people on both sides with an axe to grind. It was the JPC who pushed for the Darwin base freeze for MOU pilots and the mandatory 6 month FO stint before command...why? Now the shoe is on the other foot perhaps JQ MOU pilots should be frozen to Perth. I’m just pointing out that before people start yelling from an unearned pedestal we appreciate that the majority have opinions no where near the extremity suggested on this faceless forum.

Precisely.

Being the favoured child is something that rarely lasts.
What IR give, IR will take away in search of lower unit cost.

[Blueskymine]

I can’t speak for all of course....but the vast vast majority of QF pilots have no ill feeling towards JQ pilots. In fact a few have relatives who work for JQ and understand the reality of the last decade. The frustration is with management and their decisions.

Nevertheless, there are people on both sides with an axe to grind. It was the JPC who pushed for the Darwin base freeze for MOU pilots and the mandatory 6 month FO stint before command...why? Now the shoe is on the other foot perhaps JQ MOU pilots should be frozen to Perth. I’m just pointing out that before people start yelling from an unearned pedestal we appreciate that the majority have opinions no where near the extremity suggested on this faceless forum.

The MOU guys are pretty much frozen in Perth aren’t they?

As for the 6 month FO stint, fair enough. It’s a good move to get used to the operation. It’s a different beast to QF.

[ROH111]

Hey guys - Australian isn't my first language but isn't

" majority of QF pilots have no ill feeling towards JQ pilots. In fact a few have relatives who work for JQ"

a bit patronizing as in

"Some of my best friends are ............. (insert minority)"


go be offended somewhere else.

[Arthur D]

I didn't see these Qantas pilots complaining when after the failure of Ansett the Qantas fleet increased by nearly a third in just 5 years?

You're a fool if you assume you're entitled to a thing in aviation.

well said!

Maybe one day Qantas Group pilots will adopt a promotional system which doesn’t imprison experience in one case, whilst protecting inexperience in another. Maybe in adopting such a system, pilots will enjoy the fruits of promotion based on the same criteria enjoyed by every other industry.

and one day pigs will fly.......

when Ansett collapsed, rather than leveraging the vast experience available to it, Qantas was forced by its pilots promotional system to conduct unnecessary training and promote inexperience, both at enormous cost and arguably increasing operational risk.

Qantas pilots have the system they want. Their extreme conservatism will inhibit anything else, and ironically I fear, their very futures.

[Jetstarpilot]

Qantas pilots have the system they want. Their extreme conservatism will inhibit anything else, and ironically I fear, their very futures.


them quantas jocks av ad it to good fur to long. Pluus wun from me AD👍 Well sed big marn 👨*✈️

[Chocks Away]

Just to correct the ledger - "Your boss saw a market and he created a product"...
No he didn't. He saw J@%k $&*t!
He was only scrambling to cut off another heavily backed LCC launching out of an Avalon base with two B737's (that were in the hangars painted already!)... and he did, by having his media launch of Jetstar the day before Spirit Airlines' planned one! I wonder how he knew about Spirit... just ask the Airports' Manager, who's frequents the QF upper Lounges...:hmm:
Regardless, there was room for a LCC to move into that segment and it happens to be Jstar. It's just a pity all the QF groups aren't working together against managements' divide-and-conquer style, as those days are well and truely past it's use-by date, in this climate of skills shortage!
Happy Landings :ok:

[Beer Baron]

Maybe one day Qantas Group pilots will adopt a promotional system which doesn’t imprison experience in one case, whilst protecting inexperience in another.
Sounds like Qantas invented the seniority system eh?
Did Ansett take direct entry captains at the expense of its incumbent First Officers?

[neville_nobody]

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…

Same can be said of seniority.

The argument has been done to death on PPRUNE probably time to move on.

[LTBC]

The MOU guys are pretty much frozen in Perth aren’t they?


Not at all




As for the 6 month FO stint, fair enough. It’s a good move to get used to the operation. It’s a different beast to QF.

No more so than the 737 operation is to long haul

[ROH111]

When 737 FO’s in QF earn around 260k I don’t think a command is at the top of their priority.

youd expect most wouldn’t mind seniority, when it’s their time, it’s their time.

As for the JQ guys, how’s the 4 sector days going for 75 hours min guarantee?

[WillieTheWimp]

So Qantas short haul doesn’t have any 4 sector days or do 75 hours in a month?

[Ragnor]

So Qantas short haul doesn’t have any 4 sector days or do 75 hours in a month?

I bet they do sometimes, At least they are valued by the company and paid adequately for those hours.

Jetstar undervalue their tech crew which was evident in the last EBA update by the Chief and the Union.

[das Uber Soldat]

As for the JQ guys, how’s the 4 sector days going for 75 hours min guarantee?

Meaning what exactly?

[Blueskymine]

So Qantas short haul doesn’t have any 4 sector days or do 75 hours in a month?


Yes, but they’ll get 20 hours overtime for it.

[Lezzeno]

Yes, but they’ll get 20 hours overtime for it.

No overtime in Qantas short haul.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

I certainly don't look to undercut anyone. Mainline could push for a million dollars a year and I'd be happy for them.

What grinds me is the attitude displayed but a select few muppets such as the one above that JQ pilots are somehow responsible for whatever stagnation they suffered at mainline (and of course ignoring the massive advantage they took from the collapse of Ansett) and deserve the subpar pay or high workload we endure. "Enjoy" was the comment made, along with a snide remark about how long till retirement. Insufferable arrogance.

I took the job that was available. The reality is that mainline simply didn't hire anyone for a decade. Had they offered me a job I'd have happily taken it, but the market didn't provide that opportunity. What else am I to do? Refuse an airline job to protect people earning 5 times what I am on in GA and rot there? Its absurd.

Direct your angst at the management that decided to drive growth outside of mainline, not at the drivers who simply grabbed hold of the only thing that was available.

well said!

[Blueskymine]

No overtime in Qantas short haul.

Well 20 extra hours pay.

[Street garbage]

When 737 FO’s in QF earn around 260k I don’t think a command is at the top of their priority.

youd expect most wouldn’t mind seniority, when it’s their time, it’s their time.

As for the JQ guys, how’s the 4 sector days going for 75 hours min guarantee?
260k..yep, Ben might, but as for reality..$195k

[Engineer_aus]

Geeze a lot of bitter pilots on here......

[Rated De]

Geeze a lot of bitter pilots on here......

Unfortunately for Australian pilots the IR model is largely adversarial.
It is standard practice to set employees against each other.
Australian employers buoyed by asymmetry, heavily favouring employer leverage, saw flying outsourced, sent to contractors or subsidiaries with gay abandon.
For the Qantas pilots, a decade was lost as "growth" at Jetstar was accompanied by stagnation and demotion.
For the Jetstar pilots, their model is at scale, the market saturated and the business faces (despite accounting opaqueness) a perennial problem of low yield and increasing unit cost.

Thus, IR roll out the next lot of contractors, subsidiary or even imported workers to place further pressure on terms and conditions.

Wash rinse and repeat.

Do engineers self fund their licences?

[knobbycobby]

Wow,

depressing to see Pilots squabbling at each other like school children.
No wonder it’s so easy for IR to pit pilot against pilot and screw both groups simultaneously.
I don’t suspect they need to do a thing really.
The Guys and gals I’ve flown with from JQ in Qantas have been fantastic. Both companies have their faults. Dickheads in both airlines. Majority bloody good people.
My view is that we are all just doing our jobs, putting food on the table, trying to juggle s&$# hours with a family life.Some jobs you get an early promotion at the cost of pay/work/life. Others you take a hit to promotion for a different pay/work/life. Some make that choice. Others don’t get a choice.
The enemy isn’t your fellow pilot but the bean counter/consultant who works 9-5, gets paid more than both of us combined, gets every holiday at home and is tasked to attempt to screw us all.
Your fellow pilot isn’t the enemy. But if your a fool you’ll take the bait I suppose. Can’t fix stupid.

[Buttscratcher]

Wasn't this thread something about Network A320s?

[geeup]

Just heard Network to open bases in Cairns & Brisbane.

Will that be Fokker or Airbus bases???

[Rated De]

Just heard Network to open bases in Cairns & Brisbane.

Will that be Fokker or Airbus bases???

It is contract season, so surely it will be both bases with A350-1000!

[Johhny Utah]

Just heard Network to open bases in Cairns & Brisbane.

Will that be Fokker or Airbus bases???
username checks out ✅

[badboiblu]

Could that be the big announcement next week?

[Engineer_aus]

Just heard Network to open bases in Cairns & Brisbane

Qantaslink (Alliance);)

[ShandywithSugar]

2 more A320s to Network

[aussieflyboy]

2 more A320s to Network

Operational spares.

Complaints are coming in thick and fast from mine sites due Network reliability issues.

[Going Nowhere]

Who’d have thought old, POS hand-me-downs that have been parked up for months in a tropical climate would be unreliable?

Lucky they plan to have up to 20 of them soon.

[jrfsp]

Who’d have thought old, POS hand-me-downs that have been parked up for months in a tropical climate would be unreliable?

Lucky they plan to have up to 20 of them soon.

Indeed....Luckily the F100s are built like tanks ....

[blubak]

Who’d have thought old, POS hand-me-downs that have been parked up for months in a tropical climate would be unreliable?

Lucky they plan to have up to 20 of them soon.
Probably as reliable as the 'new' 321F.
Im sure the customer satisfaction survey results will be at a record high though,as it always is.
KPI=bonus!

[unobtanium]

Probably as reliable as the 'new' 321F.
Im sure the customer satisfaction survey results will be at a record high though,as it always is.
KPI=bonus!

Don't worry the A330's will pick up the slack.

[Paragraph377]

Probably as reliable as the 'new' 321F.
Im sure the customer satisfaction survey results will be at a record high though,as it always is.
KPI=bonus!
Of course. And Alan has one of his buddies,
Gerry Turner, a fellow Irishman, earning those bonuses as JQ COO. Another ‘mate’ who Joyce has looked after and shuffled through various roles within JQ and QF. Executive C-level grubs who are a protected and overpaid species.

[wheels_down]

Of course. And Alan has one of his buddies,
Gerry Turner, a fellow Irishman, earning those bonuses as JQ COO. Another ‘mate’ who Joyce has looked after and shuffled through various roles within JQ and QF. Executive C-level grubs who are a protected and overpaid species.

Part of the Jayne alliance also, I’m half expecting him to appear over the fence at some point.

[Arthur D]

Of course. And Alan has one of his buddies,
Gerry Turner, a fellow Irishman, earning those bonuses as JQ COO. Another ‘mate’ who Joyce has looked after and shuffled through various roles within JQ and QF. Executive C-level grubs who are a protected and overpaid species.

I’m sure he thinks the world of you too!

[airdualbleedfault]

Operational spares

What about the other 6 to 8 coming, operational spares too?

[Paragraph377]

I’m sure he thinks the world of you too!

Hi Gerry! To be sure to be sure.

[Lookleft]

The new COO is highly regarded within Jetstar by operations and management staff. Not sure how anyone can have such exclusive inside knowledge of Jetstar and Virgin.

[Paragraph377]

The new COO is highly regarded within Jetstar by operations and management staff. Not sure how anyone can have such exclusive inside knowledge of Jetstar and Virgin.
And Qantas and ANZ too.

[Lookleft]

Aah just like that other FIGJAM who knows everything about everyone, everywhere. To quote that other aviation luminary who used to own half of Ansett. " You think I know f@#* nothing, well I know F@#* all!"

[Paragraph377]

Aah just like that other FIGJAM who knows everything about everyone, everywhere. To quote that other aviation luminary who used to own half of Ansett. " You think I know f@#* nothing, well I know F@#* all!"
What a strange outburst and odd behaviour from you sir. Go relax, have a Scotch and some Valium and give PPprune a break for a few days. I worry about yiur your blood pressure and mental health.

[Lookleft]

No need to worry its all good. I can assure you that I am very relaxed, enjoy Scotch with just a bit of soda. When I read a post that portends to claim inside knowledge then I like to know if the poster is fair dinkum or just a line shooter. You have answered that question and for that I thank you.

[Paragraph377]

No need to worry its all good. I can assure you that I am very relaxed, enjoy Scotch with just a bit of soda. When I read a post that portends to claim inside knowledge then I like to know if the poster is fair dinkum or just a line shooter. You have answered that question and for that I thank you.
Much nicer response. More measured and calm. Good for you.
Cheers
Shooter

[bolthead]

The crew on last Sunday's Adelaide - Perth flight might have been thinking ' why wasn't this POS given to Network?'