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kesskidi
27th Jun 2019, 15:01
hello,
going through the procedure I'm curious to know how other operators deal with the ecam protocole for this particular ecam when status page pops up, and how Qrh procedure is used in conjonction with ecam items.
ie: do you read and do the whole status page when it appears or do you read it first then go back to status when preparing the approach and at this time read & do status item (land flaps 3, vapp+10 etc...) ?

thanks.

sonicbum
27th Jun 2019, 16:59
hello,
going through the procedure I'm curious to know how other operators deal with the ecam protocole for this particular ecam when status page pops up, and how Qrh procedure is used in conjonction with ecam items.
ie: do you read and do the whole status page when it appears or do you read it first then go back to status when preparing the approach and at this time read & do status item (land flaps 3, vapp+10 etc...) ?

thanks.

Read the status, do not action it, then ECAM actions complete. At that point You will start Your decision making, ie. return or divert somewhere else and runway and procedure You will fly. Once this is clear, You have enough information to action the status and prepare the approach. Open the status page, read again, action the items and prepare the top hat in the way you are used to, keeping in mind that speed corrections are related to VLS CONF FULL. Before starting the approach read the Landing with slats or flaps jammed checklist to gather information about how the approach and go around will be flown. After that, use the checklist as a read and do for Your approach and go for it. Remember Your usual normal checklists.
Actioning the status while reading it during the ECAM actions does not make sense as these are called "approach procedures" and You still don't know where and when You will fly an approach, Your main interest at that stage is to know how healthy Your aircraft is to actually take a decision.

FlightDetent
28th Jun 2019, 13:38
The sequence described above so well also applies to other ECAM malfunctions. Just do not forget that step zero is IDENTIFY AND CONFIRM THE MALFUNCTION.

Luckily, these days it is well described in the FCTM to iron out any wrinkles from the training.

Flo121142
28th Jun 2019, 19:43
You go back to the status. I had this situation once in the real aircraft during initial approach (Flaps locked between 0 and 1) - we canceled the approach (it happened before G/S*), did the ECAM entered a hold and briefed everybody (cabin, ATC). The main issue here is that if it happens during approach you can be severely limited. We were landing on a shortish runway (around 2200m IIRC) but we were lucky enough to have a light LW (below 60 tons), so we could still land there (Vapp around 160kts I think, but the pitch was really uncomfortably high)...time flies in this kind of situation, I think we needed two or three turns in the hold overhead the field to complete all the procedures, briefings etc. (i.e. 8 to 12 minutes). We still had a comfortable amount of fuel, but if you figure out that you will need to divert it could be an issue (especially if the flaps are not jammed at or close to 0 but at a higher, more fuel consuming position)...in this situation we did not really focus about the exact time of selecting the GPWS Flap Mode (and all the other items written on STS) etc. etc., but more about the actual operational issues.

vilas
29th Jun 2019, 10:41
Some more on Slat/Flap jam. ECAM uses the nomenclature slat/flap FAULT or LOCKED. FAULT signifies computer problem and ECAM tells you to recycle the lever which may clear the problem while locked is due to hydraulic problems or WTB activation which is permanent and doesn't ask you to recycle. In case of dual flap Chanel fault AP, FD, ATHR are lost and in dual slat channel FLT Ctls also will be in alternate law. Wing tip brake locked all these remain available. Landing with Slat/flap jam procedure caters for worst case scenario. the only important thing is the landing distance. If you are sure of that (RW3000mtr) and if you have to land ASAP you may be able to.
VFE next-5 is not mandatory it is permitted as long as it's >/= VLs. So even if you didn't select speed ATHR will not allow it to drop below VLs. Just configure flap 3 and fly VLs in select speed because VLs is real time speed always correct. That's what you do anyway.

kesskidi
29th Jun 2019, 16:24
thanks everybody.
unless you have a dual channel fault and ending in direct law, I'd say that flying the approach in managed speed allows for better workload management, F speed being below VFE next by design.

sonicbum
29th Jun 2019, 17:14
thanks everybody.
unless you have a dual channel fault and ending in direct law, I'd say that flying the approach in managed speed allows for better workload management, F speed being below VFE next by design.

Try to mail Airbus, they might change the procedure afterwards. Till then, follow the checklist / FCTM and use speed selected.

vilas
29th Jun 2019, 18:26
Airbus Landing with slat/flap jam procedure is optimum procedure. It covers all conditions and must be followed. If variations are brought in there is a chance of it's inappropriate application.What I said was for purely for better understanding of the logic of the procedure. Vapp is high and you may not want GSmini kicking in.

Lantirn
11th Feb 2020, 21:19
Some more on Slat/Flap jam. ECAM uses the nomenclature slat/flap FAULT or LOCKED.

A thing that I cant clarify all these years is why in the QRH there is no SLAT JAMMED in the "For Go Around" paragraphs.

In the case of flaps jammed>0 you wont retract the flaps for a diversion. However for a slat jammed (with Wing tip brake) nothing is in the QRH so I assume there is no limitation, but i can only assume...

Also there is no straight paragraph for FLAP JAMMED. So I assume again that airbus categorizes initially any problem from slats or flaps as a FAULT in the QRH, even if it is LOCKED. So in the case you have flaps locked (WTB), you enter the flaps fault case and then go to the flaps jammed case in case you need to divert. FAULT, LOCKED, JAMMED, cmon airbus...! :ugh:

Another question is about circuit. Is a very short vectoring considered a circuit? This was always a debate with my instructors. Never a clear answer!

hikoushi
14th Feb 2020, 04:42
The alternative to a “circuit” in the QRH is a “diversion”, which by its definition means you are going to a different airport. While there may be some different ways to interpret what “circuit” means in context we have always trained that if you are returning to land at the same field, even vectors out for an ILS, to follow the “circuit” procedure. If you are in the arrival phase and low on fuel you will be expecting priority handling, so the vector should take less time than running the whole QRH procedure again. If you are in the departure phase, you are probably overweight with fuel and burning a little more flying around the patch with the flaps hanging out may not be such a bad thing.

The less times we move the flap lever around, the less opportunity for something else to break. Have experienced asymmetric flap deployment before in a large jet (bad), and a zero-flap landing in a large turboprop (not so bad). If possible, it is definitely best to avoid messing with the configuration once it is established and stable.