BA pilots offered 11% pay rise

[mngmt mole]

Not much else to say really.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7165163/British-Airline-pilots-threaten-summer-holidays-strikes.html

[AQIS Boigu]

Shall we ask how much the 320 FO based in LGW makes pa?!

You just can't win against the media

[BubbaJ]

I get the feeling he has been saving all year for his holiday....poor chap I guess ****ty journalism is not bringing home the bacon

[oriental flyer]

It’s not 11% , it’s 11% over 3 years . That makes a big difference .
terrible article full of mistakes such as they can only fly 17 hours per week . Absolute rubbish some trips are almost that long
good luck to them but anyone who has an opportunity to leave CX for BA I would go in a heartbeat

[Farman Biplane]

Meanwhile CX is talking about abolishing modern slavery in the world.
Does that mean abolishing HKPA/COS08/18 and returning to proper expatriate contracts?
.......thought not, maybe 0/0/0% at a cost of increased productivity?

[cabbages]

From the Daily Mail article "Some of the more experienced pilots are known to earn as much as £300,000 a year with bonuses and allowances "

I wonder what they would say about the "more experienced" CX pilots who earn over £500,000 a year?

I don't think even the journalists at the Daily Mail would fall for that one!

[rhoshamboe]

Really? You reckon we earn more than $5M HKD per year? Dude, who are you?

[cabbages]

But Paul......What is the point in comparing an expat remuneration package at CX against a non expat remuneration package at BA? It's chalk and cheese. How do the locally employed pilot remuneration figures compare? Surely that is more informative? I would be interested in how many pilots at CX employed on local contracts are receiving the equivalent of over £500,000 a year.

[rhoshamboe]

So in actual fact, 8 pilots (almost certainly management) earned more than your quoted GBP500,000.

Between these comments and your completely off the mark "Gay Bar " moral outrage it's almost like you have an axe to grind. If you're not careful those that don't already think you're full of the proverbial soon will.

[cabbages]

'I really don't get the whole "expats deserve multiples of the money" argument'#

So basically you're arguing for no premium on expat remuneration? That's an illuminating idea but one I think would be hard to sell in any industry employing expats. The only reason expats are recruited is out of necessity and that, whether you like it or not, carries a premium.
I'm genuinely interested as to how many locally employed pilots at CX make £500000 or more per year. Paul, care to hazard a guess?

[cabbages]

Paul, You're starting to sound a little unhinged. Who said anything about "us and them" or 'Colonialism' or 'skin color'? Clearly debating the facts makes you uncomfortable. You brought the subject up. How many locally employed pilots at CX make £500000 a year?

[cabbages]

Paul, you reason like a 6 year old.

[Threethirty]

Anyway back to the topic, I think we can all safely say that the average pilot wage at BA isn’t 150K a year, just the same as the average at Cathay isn’t 500K. To even bring that up Paul is highly disingenuous and on a par with the gutter press Daily Mail journalist.

[Cpt. Underpants]

Cathay has approximately 3400 pilots

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Paul, the median is most definitely not 2M HKD, you have been misinformed. Cathay management love giving money figures to the media to make us seem like the bad guys.

[Air Profit]

Seems everyone is missing the main point that Mole was trying to make: the fact that BA is willing to BEGIN with an opening offer of 11% over 3 years. How does that compare to our esteemed managements offer to the CX pilots? The joke only becomes less funny year after year. I'm sure it will get better soon though.... :rolleyes:

[Asturias56]

Given that UK salaries in general are rising at around 3.1% a year 11% over 3 years isn't exactly generous...................

The Hays Salary study shows
"For the third year in a row, the Hays Asia Salary Guide has reported prevalence in salary stagnation in Hong Kong, culminating in one in ten (11 per cent) employees experiencing no increase in their salaries over the last year. However, this rise is fractional and still below the Asia average of 15 per cent.

In addition, signalling salary inertia in Hong Kong was the rise in employers reporting conservative increases of up to three per cent. In 2018, 27 per cent of employers had intended salary raises by this marginal amount, but this figure leaps to 35 per cent in 2019."

which sounds quite similar to the UK

[cxorcist]

Just to be clear, as I understand it, this is the amount by which the payscales rise to accommodate inflation. In addition to this all BA (and CX for that matter) pilots get an increase every year as a bonus for not dying, as I understand it. Is that correct?

You are most definitely NOT correct. CX Pilots (and most other airlines too) get an increment for being more experienced in successive years, up to a point, then that too stops. Increments are not inflation adjustments at CX or any other airline, and they never have been. They are compensation for experience and 100% expected when joining. Inflation adjustments need to be fought for!

[BusyB]

Looks like the Housing Allowance has been lumped with the salaries.

[Slasher1]

What you need to make for a given lifestyle depends entirely on where you live.

I think a decent metric might be how many people are happy at BA vs. how many people are actually happy at CX.

And where are things trending as well as what has the past trend been.

[Apple Tree Yard]

Slasher, I had dinner on Wednesday with the 2 happy people still flying at CX. Of course, they are both in their last month of working for CX, both leaving for greener pastures. That's it, the only 2 happy people in CX.

[AllWobbly]

Just to be clear, as I understand it, this is the amount by which the payscales rise to accommodate inflation. In addition to this all BA (and CX for that matter) pilots get an increase every year as a bonus for not dying, as I understand it. Is that correct?

As to accommodating inflation:
Hmm there are pilots in CX who stayed on RA55 who have only ever had one pay rise. I don't think KA has any A scale left but they probably were/are in the same boat.

A couple of points:
I see the civil service are expecting between 4-5% raise this year. Presumably the government has a pretty good handle on real inflation.

30 years ago a house in clearwaterbay cost about 2mill. I cant remember the rental at the time. It was a CX enclave with many pilots buying houses. Now none of the crew could afford to buy said property. I just saw the same house on the market for 68mil.

Irrespective of ones domicile salaries have not kept up with inflation.

[Rated De]

It’s not 11% , it’s 11% over 3 years . That makes a big difference .
terrible article full of mistakes such as they can only fly 17 hours per week . Absolute rubbish some trips are almost that long
good luck to them but anyone who has an opportunity to leave CX for BA I would go in a heartbeat

Ah selective representation of facts...17 flight hours per week, ignoring of course duty hours needed to accumulate the precious flight (paid) hours.
At least one Australian operator used a similar justification to the employment commission and the omission went unchallenged such that the pilots are available at company discretion because the commission though that they were at work 17 hours or so per week.

[Flex88]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/542x320/cathay_remuneration_2018_a157de718f91cccbe85064aeef61f88dea7 69caa.jpg
Well here is the data. If there are 3400 pilots and lets assume that no cabin crew earn over $2M then 1828 pilots earn over $2M. So the median is above $2M.

I'm sorry if this upsets you. If you feel that CX is making false statements in its annual report and accounts then I guess you should report that to the SFC (https://www.sfc.hk/web/EN/about-the-sfc/contact-us.html)

852, a triggered snowflake, falls for the same old PR garbage CX pumps out every year.
"Total" remuneration ?
Incl HKPA
Incl overtime
Incl Check/Training allowance for those with no morals
Incl Year End Bonus for those GM level and up
Incl Management allowance for those sitting on their 3rd Flr thrones
etc. etc.

These payments skew the "real" picture massively..

Paul852 = Management Cuc

[RexBanner]

Seems everyone is missing the main point that Mole was trying to make: the fact that BA is willing to BEGIN with an opening offer of 11% over 3 years. How does that compare to our esteemed managements offer to the CX pilots? The joke only becomes less funny year after year. I'm sure it will get better soon though.... :rolleyes:

This was not BA management’s opening offer, not even close, hence why we are about to ballot for strike action.

[Avinthenews]

It's great how Hong Kong tax is always quoted as being so low yet rent is the true tax.

Crew can be spending around 25-50% of their total renumeration on rent to live to a quality of life they expect to provide to their family to match the life back home and this is why people are leaving.

BA might pay a total package that's less on paper but lifestyle wise it's now better off long term.

Sadly seniority traps many before they can make the jump

[oriental flyer]

The article refers to BA pilots only working 17 hours per week which comes from the calculation 900 total hrs divided by 52 weeks = 17.3 hrs per week .
what about vacations , crew training courses , simulator time , Medical’s . Not forgetting the time away from home in hotels recovering from the flight .
This is what really annoys me . People take figures when they have absolutely no concept of the reality of the job . Does anyone stop to think for a moment why the 900 hour maximum was imposed by the authorities . At least they recognise the fatigue factor and have limits for passenger safety .
its time that the airlines recognised the contribution made by crews to their bottom line and compensated them accordingly

as to the rental costs question from all wobbly rentals in those days for a house in CWB were about 36,000 per month

[RAT Management]

Statistics can be used to prove anything... 4 out of 5 people will tell you that!

[Sorry Dog]

The whole concept of expat employment is dying fast. In finance, in telecoms and in all the other areas where it used to apply. Now there's a price for the job. Cheapest person gets it. I'm sorry if that makes you feel uncomfotable.

Fixed that for you.... I'm sure that's what you meant.

[PNM]

I think I know who Paul852 is. If I'm correct, he is an experienced troll. He has a penchant for poking CX guys with a stick (even outside the scope of discussions related to CX industrial matters). It appears to arouse him somewhat. I would humbly suggest nobody engages with him. He's a smug, last-word freak.