View Full Version : Plane down on the Capital golf course near Moorabbin
0ttoL
16th Jun 2019, 22:35
Saw this in the news yesterday.
I think I saw RAA rego starting with 24.
Luckily, no one hurt.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1212x888/screen_shot_2019_06_17_at_8_31_10_am_ab89f6f4f6a2d41ca834148 43338bd5dc40f2124.png
mcoates
17th Jun 2019, 01:38
Sorry..... there you go... "a hole in one"
0ttoL
17th Jun 2019, 02:13
Seems to have arrived on the 17th fairway (based on the bunker configuration)
This is up against Old Dandenong Road and quite a way from the departure?? end of the runway.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/908x1336/screen_shot_2019_06_17_at_12_05_23_pm_1794f6fa2c45b4b124bbc5 8d0809500a3e4d04ec.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/970x1284/screen_shot_2019_06_17_at_12_05_06_pm_148290031a814188e72036 2d4c3781cb6150c790.jpg
Squawk7700
17th Jun 2019, 03:25
I assumed EFATO. You’d probably only have to get to a couple of hundred feet after takeoff to get to that point.
Lucky they got it down where they did and probably lucky they didn’t try and turn back.
Sunfish
17th Jun 2019, 03:50
.........or simulated EFATO and oops!
roundsounds
17th Jun 2019, 04:21
.........or simulated EFATO and oops!
it’s a Jabiru....
Anyone know what time of the day and what the wind direction was..? It looks like maybe he was coming in from the Nth to land on 17 (rather than taking off on 35) and he's put it down on the fairway, skipped over the bunker and into the scrub. Once again, the golf course saves the day! If you're ever unlucky enough to have an EFATO or engine quit on short final at Moorabbin, you want it to happen at that end, not the other..!
Egipps
17th Jun 2019, 05:18
Anyone know what time of the day and what the wind direction was..? It looks like maybe he was coming in from the Nth to land on 17 (rather than taking off on 35) and he's put it down on the fairway, skipped over the bunker and into the scrub. Once again, the golf course saves the day! If you're ever unlucky enough to have an EFATO or engine quit on short final at Moorabbin, you want it to happen at that end, not the other..!
The aircraft was taking off, not landing. Runway 35 was in use. Not sure if it was doing circuits, or just planning to take off and depart. We landed at 3.15 pm and I understand it happened right about then.
kaz3g
17th Jun 2019, 12:08
it’s a Jabiru....
Fortunate...it’s a great airframe to crash in!
Okihara
17th Jun 2019, 13:42
If you land on a golf course after an EFATO, I just say: Mulligan!
Ixixly
17th Jun 2019, 21:36
"Being assessed by paramedics", I can just see that "I'm a Paramedic, not a Pilot, but I'd give that landing a 4/10"
Glad everyone walked away alright!
Squawk7700
18th Jun 2019, 01:51
Reportedly a partial power loss and vibration at 300ft after takeoff.
Buster Hyman
18th Jun 2019, 01:57
I hope they asked to play through, as they don't take too kindly to that at Capital...
cooperplace
18th Jun 2019, 15:40
Reportedly a partial power loss and vibration at 300ft after takeoff.
dropped valve? valve heads have been known to break off in these engines
peterc005
18th Jun 2019, 23:11
Reportedly a partial power loss and vibration at 300ft after takeoff.
There have been a few planes over the years that have landed in the same golf course due to carburetor icing. The weather at the time and engine symptoms are consistent with this.
There have been a few planes over the years that have landed in the same golf course due to carburetor icing. The weather at the time and engine symptoms are consistent with this.
On landing yes, but they were on takeoff. How likely is Carb ice with full power with the throttle butterfly full open?
Squawk7700
19th Jun 2019, 03:54
dropped valve? valve heads have been known to break off in these engines
Possibly popped off a pot too. You can usually keep going with a popped pot to get home but maintaining a climb would be impossible in a J160. A J170 may have had a chance if fuel / weight was low.
peterc005
19th Jun 2019, 09:50
On landing yes, but they were on takeoff. How likely is Carb ice with full power with the throttle butterfly full open?
It's happened before at this time of year. Maybe it did lose a cylinder, but carby ice is my bet.
Recall LAMEs talking about heading over to the golf course with a fine pitch prop to recover a SE Piper where the same thing probably happened.
Problem with Carburetor Icing is it's hard to prove once the plane is on the ground and ice has melted.
golfbananajam
19th Jun 2019, 09:56
Carb icing could have happened during the relatively low power taxi but the power checks prior to departure should have found that.
Squawk7700
19th Jun 2019, 11:09
Carb icing could have happened during the relatively low power taxi but the power checks prior to departure should have found that.
Not likely. Would need to be moving fast / flying with air ramming into the inlet.
RadioSaigon
19th Jun 2019, 13:09
Not likely. Would need to be moving fast / flying with air ramming into the inlet.
Sorry? What???
golfbananajam is completely correct. Carb icing is far more likely to develop during low power operations when the throttle butterfly is presenting a large surface-area to the mass-flow leading to an induction icing event. As he states, usually easily detected and rectified prior to trying for takeoff power. At high power settings (as during a takeoff) the likelihood of induction icing becoming an issue is vastly reduced, as a consequence of the wide-open throttle butterfly presenting (as close as possible) a knife-edge to the induction mass-flow, as much as the sheer volume of the mass-flow itself clearing ice buildup by virtue of Itself.
Another very persistent icing myth is that icing is more likely an issue in the colder months/locations than in summer... sorta makes sense, yah? Nah. A basic principle of air’s ability to retain moisture is that: warm air can hold and retain more moisture than cold air. Met 101. To get induction icing, you need... moisture. So the reality is that you are far less likely to get induction icing issues in the winter months or the colder locations. It’s the warmer spots you need to pay more attention to.
When I was flying the old BN2A a wee while ago now, it was SOP to select carb air HOT immediately after engine-start, with selecting COLD the very last action before shoving the throttles up for departure. Climb and even cruise usually flown at full throttle -the only power reduction being to bring the props back below 2750 and mixture leaned viciously. Never had any problem with induction icing or engine health operating that way for close to 8 years. Admittedly, the BN2A with the normally aspirated O-540’s was well known to be particularly susceptible to induction icing, particularly during low power ground operations, requiring a little more care and attention than other common types.
machtuk
19th Jun 2019, 13:18
Sorry? What???
golfbananajam is completely correct. Carb icing is far more likely to develop during low power operations when the throttle butterfly is presenting a large surface-area to the mass-flow leading to an induction icing event. As he states, usually easily detected and rectified prior to trying for takeoff power. At high power settings (as during a takeoff) the likelihood of induction icing becoming an issue is vastly reduced, as a consequence of the wide-open throttle butterfly presenting (as close as possible) a knife-edge to the induction mass-flow, as much as the mass-flow itself clears ice buildup by sheer virtue of the mass-flow.
Another very persistent icing myth is that icing is more likely an issue in the colder months than in summer... sorta makes sense, yah? Nah. A basic principle of air’s ability to retain moisture is that: warm air can hold and retain more moisture than cold air. Met 101. To get induction icing, you need... moisture. So the reality is that you are far less likely to get induction icing issues in the winter months.
When I was flying the old BN2A a wee while ago now, it was SOP to select carb air HOT immediately after engine-start, with selecting COLD the very last action before shoving the throttles up for departure. Climb and even cruise usually flown at full throttle -the only power reduction being to bring the props back below 2750 and mixture leaned viciously. Never had any problem with induction icing or engine health operating that way for close to 8 years. Admittedly, the BN2A with the normally aspirated O-540’s was well known to be particularly susceptible to induction icing, particularly during low power ground operations, requiring a little more care and attention than other common types.
well said -:) Amazing the incorrect info out there & old wives tales, carby icing is just one subject!
Squawk7700
19th Jun 2019, 20:37
well said -:) Amazing the incorrect info out there & old wives tales, carby icing is just one subject!
I maintain, very UN-likely in a Jabiru.
Note that the post I responded to said that carby ice would be noticed in the run-up bay. Over 1,000 hours in Jabs with a carby temp probe tell me that.