Trumps Presidential Helicopter

[Michael Gee]

Anyone notice the seemingly makeshift bent metal air intake guard - not a bread basket.
Why does a helicopter have to taxi using wheels for 500 yards before lifting as it did from Stansted ?

[gulliBell]

Because it's safer taxiing on wheels than hover taxiing. And if your job is to carry POTUS then the safest way is probably the way they will do it.

[Bell_ringer]

Why does a helicopter have to taxi using wheels for 500 yards before lifting as it did from Stansted ?

Between his girth and the additional drag from the combover, they probably need the rolling start to get airborne :}

[Michael Gee]

Do not see the need to use the delicate wheels for 500 yards when they could lift much much quicker - I am sure all other stuff was kept at bay

[ShyTorque]

It's quite often an ATC requirement for a wheeled heli to ground taxy. Drives me nuts at times. Causes undue delay and uneccessarily wears out the tyres and brakes!!

[John Eacott]

Absolutely normal for heavier wheeled helicopters to taxi to a suitable area for departure. Not at all sure about the assertion that it was 500 yards, but there would be a few reasons for any S61/Sea King (or similar) to do so.

Downwash of two Sea Kings lifting would be substantial, and disrupting to the VIP escorts on the ground.
Departure on a clear area (runway) allowing a safe rejected takeoff.
Line up for a departure into wind, vs a restricted choice should a departure in the area of the startup and loading.

Michael Gee, FWIW the wheels are not 'delicate'! Not at all sure what you mean about the intake guards, they are the normal FOD shields that have been around for some 45-50 years.

[industry insider]

I am surprised that the VH-3s are in London, normally on overseas visits they use the VH-60.

[peterperfect]

In the build up to Air Force One's arrival did anyone else hear the male presenter on BBC Radio Five Live get Jeremy Hunt's surname slightly wrong (by one vital letter) and have to correct himself mid-sentence ? :mad:

[[email protected]]

ATC prefer wheeled helicopters to ground taxi rather than air taxi - it keeps them on the same routes as FW and removes potential problems with downwash and FOD from a hovering helicopter - especially a heavy one.

From an operators point of view, it saves fuel.

[gulliBell]

And ground taxi time on wheels doesn't get recorded in the aircraft technical log, whereas air taxi time does. Not that that would be a factor in this instance.

[Michael Gee]

John Eacott
everything on a helicopter is delicate - taxi for runway 09 was a long taxi when a heli with skilled pilots taking into account all the dangers around are meant to fly - Air Traffic are not familiar with what helicopters can or can not do they are fixed in their minds like many fixed wing pilots.
The mod on No 1 heli looks makeshift - No 2 was without it. Have a look at catch up TV of Trumps arrival at Stansted UK this morning.
Your quote Intake Guards have been around 40 50 years so have I and still at it at 79 years of age

[nomorehelosforme]

There are a few pictures of Marine One at Buckingham Palace and Winfield House but the interesting picture is the first one, it actually looks like Mr Trump has gone against all Royal Protocol and decided to give the Queen a good old American fist bump rather than shake her hand!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48491722

[SASless]

Seeing is believing as it is said.

Post the photo and show us what you are using as a basis for your post.

The Caption of the very first video clearly states....."Trump shakes Queen's Hand".

Did BBC get it all wrong?

[serf]

FOD as Crab@ said.

[nomorehelosforme]

Sasless,

My comment was said in jest, and the BBC have replaced the original picture with a video, but funny enough The Daily Mail managed to make a story of it around the same time.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7099283/Did-Donald-Trump-fist-bump-Queen-Buckingham-Palace.html

Perhaps I missed my real vocation in life as a jorno for a crappy tabloid...

[ShyTorque]

ATC prefer wheeled helicopters to ground taxi rather than air taxi - it keeps them on the same routes as FW and removes potential problems with downwash and FOD from a hovering helicopter - especially a heavy one.

From an operators point of view, it saves fuel.

Not when they make you join the queue of taxying fixed wing for a runway you don't actually need or want to use and are then obliged to allow for vortex wake separation. An extra fifteen or twenty minutes burning and turning prior to departure certainly doesn't save fuel. Sometimes a significant part our planned fuel reserve is used up before we even get to take off.

[PlasticCabDriver]

Not when they make you join the queue of taxying fixed wing for a runway you don't actually need or want to use and are then obliged to allow for vortex wake separation. An extra fifteen or twenty minutes burning and turning prior to departure certainly doesn't save fuel. Sometimes a significant part our planned fuel reserve is used up before we even get to take off.

And then you add a bit on because it’s rush hour at Aberdeen and the customer has taken every kg of payload, only to be cleared straight on. :rolleyes:

[RedhillPhil]

That picture of Prince Charles and Camilla meeting the Trumps.
"One puts one's left leg in, one's left leg out....."

[ShyTorque]

PCD,

A bit of extra fuel isn't an option when your normal fuel load is "full tanks". Being obliged to ground taxy at MAUM for long distances to the end of a runway is frustrating when all you actually need is a 15 x 15 metre helipad.

[John Eacott]

John Eacott
everything on a helicopter is delicate - taxi for runway 09 was a long taxi when a heli with skilled pilots taking into account all the dangers around are meant to fly - Air Traffic are not familiar with what helicopters can or can not do they are fixed in their minds like many fixed wing pilots.
The mod on No 1 heli looks makeshift - No 2 was without it. Have a look at catch up TV of Trumps arrival at Stansted UK this morning.
Your quote Intake Guards have been around 40 50 years so have I and still at it at 79 years of age

Nice that you're still flogging around after some years, but believe me the SH3/Sea King undercarriage is not 'delicate'. Anything that stood up to many hundreds of my deck landings is quite capable of a little bit of taxiing!

I think your dig at ATC is more than a little unjustified, too.

Still no idea what you're referring to on the intake as they both look the same to me, standard barn doors. Here is Marine One yesterday with POTUS boarding:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/8261-2/Marine+One.jpg


This was an airfield taxi worth making, much the same distance as Marine One :ok:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/8258-1/Shannon+S61+2.jpg

[megan]

John, what's the bit sticking out of the top of the beanie/rotor head in the bottom photo?

[krypton_john]

John, what's the bit sticking out of the top of the beanie/rotor head in the bottom photo?

Clothes hangar for drying pilots' undergarments.

[John Eacott]

John, what's the bit sticking out of the top of the beanie/rotor head in the bottom photo?

Pitot heads

Clothes hangar for drying pilots' undergarments.

Silly sod, everyone knows pilots don't need 'undergarments' :p

[Old Dogs]

John Eacott
everything on a helicopter is delicate - taxi for runway 09 was a long taxi when a heli with skilled pilots taking into account all the dangers around are meant to fly - Air Traffic are not familiar with what helicopters can or can not do they are fixed in their minds like many fixed wing pilots.
The mod on No 1 heli looks makeshift - No 2 was without it. Have a look at catch up TV of Trumps arrival at Stansted UK this morning.
Your quote Intake Guards have been around 40 50 years so have I and still at it at 79 years of age
​​​​​​
As usual, John is bang on. Those FOD (anti-ice) shields have been around for 50+ years and are an original Sikorsky part.

FYI, there are three inlet configurations for the SK61: 1) Nothing. 2) FOD (anti-ice) shield. 3) Pointy screens (aka Madonna bras)

Finally, Sikorsky 61 gear is not "delicate". This aircraft was designed for the Navy FFS. 🙄

One more thing, hovering 20,000+ pound helicopters around airports will not make you any friends. 😏

[Phil Kemp]

Three down, three to go. And I totally agree about hover-taxiing large helicopters around. Every car and aircraft owner around will be trying to get money from you.
Coulson/Donaldson Inlet Barrier Filter.
https://www.helis.com/database/pics/news/2016/s-61_ufm_faa.jpg

Pall Filter
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/800_Squadron_NSW_%28Naval_Strike_Wing%29%2C_based_at_RAF_Cot tesmore%2C_embarked_HMS_Illustrious_for_a_6_week_deployment. _The_Sqn_were_about_to_commence_Exercise_Neptune_Warrior_as_ part_of_the_cold_weather_programme_for_the_year._MOD_4514744 0.jpg/1280px-thumbnail.jpg
British Airways alternate FOD screen. (http://www.emea.donaldson.com/en/aircraft/support/datalibrary/078949.pdf)
http://www.ashpole.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ST-MARYS-ISLES-OF-SCILLY.jpg

[megan]

Thanks for the reply John, have to ask why there, what with the extraordinary plumbing that must have been involved, I note the Sea King is not so equipped.

[industry insider]

Madonna Bra type:


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x430/screen_shot_2019_06_05_at_2_34_40_pm_1_a8ee5a7b331157fa9d44c 2201f32af8345b45973.png

[SuperF]

In the picture of the BA Aircraft, do they give you grief for the rear wheel missing the pad?

[[email protected]]

The grey Sea King has the UK Mil EAPS/SNIPS (Engine Air Particle Separation/Snow and Ice Protection) system - the black screens have vortex generators that spin the air entering the chamber, centrifugal force pushes sand, ice and a lot of the salt into a collection chamber at the bottom where 2 powerful electric blowers eject it.

It works well as long as you don't push the cyclic forward harshly - on a sloping ground landing for example - as it is possible for the blades to contact the filter box.

[SASless]

In the picture of the BA Aircraft, do they give you grief for the rear wheel missing the pad?


Knowing BA Pilots....they probably got a bonus for just finding the Pad.

[Variable Load]

Knowing BA Pilots....they probably got a bonus for just finding the Pad.

Meeoooow !!!!!

[ShyTorque]

Pitot heads
Silly sod, everyone knows pilots don't need 'undergarments' :p

They do if they fly with me....

[wrench1]

Why does a helicopter have to taxi using wheels for 500 yards before lifting...?
Don't know if same reason in this case, but there are/were a number of airports in the States that would not allow hover taxi ops in certain terminal areas and/or by helicopters over a certain gross weight. It was one of the reasons there were wheel options for the 214ST and 412.

[nomorehelosforme]

They do if they fly with me....

Shy, I’m not sure what your flying is like but do you mean a spare clean pair :)

[ShyTorque]

Shy, I’m not sure what your flying is like but do you mean a spare clean pair :)

Exactly that ;-)