Iberia Direct Entry FO long haul

[samca]

Today Iberia has published a job offer for long haul A330/350 FOs type rated and not type rated.
Good luck everybody

[samca]

What are the conditions for new entrants? I seem to remember they were pretty poor for the first couple of years at least.

It seems to be that around 4000 net and every 2 years you climb 1 level. Is mainly for the 330/350 and they are looking for ATPL pilots I think.

cheers

[samca]

It is more 3000€/month than 4000€/month what you will get as an Iberia FO on long haul. Good news is that you’ll wear a hat like a Pan Am pilot.

Is very close to 4000 first year. You join in level 9 directly

[Solenoid]

Is very close to 4000 first year. You join in level 9 directly

quite bad anyway

[bringbackthe80s]

How is it bad if you’re a 25 years old and get on IB 350 directly?? I WISH I had this chance

[Newcomer2]

How is it bad if you’re a 25 years old and get on IB 350 directly?? I WISH I had this chance

Because in real legacies, longhaul FOs are closer to 10000 a month...

[bringbackthe80s]

Sure keep dreaming

[aloa326]

Sure keep dreaming


4000 is low especially for a flag carrier and long haul.
for sure is not so uncommon get between 7000/8000 net a month.

it is not a dream is a matter of responsibility and requirements to comply.

[Newcomer2]

Sure keep dreaming



And keep living in denial.
A long haul FO at Air France gets at least 8000 a month. Right now you can get on the 330 after just 1 year in the company, or the 777 after 3 years.
Even Ryanair pays their Spanish FOs more than what Iberia is giving to theirs on the 350. What does it tell you?
It's because of people thinking like you that the conditions and benefits are not like what they used to be in the 80s, pretty ironic given your username...

[samca]

And keep living in denial.
A long haul FO at Air France gets at least 8000 a month. Right now you can get on the 330 after just 1 year in the company, or the 777 after 3 years.
Even Ryanair pays their Spanish FOs more than what Iberia is giving to theirs on the 350. What does it tell you?
It's because of people thinking like you that the conditions and benefits are not like what they used to be in the 80s, pretty ironic given your username...
also it depends how many years you fly as FO. Every 2 years your salary improve, anyway agree with you that is not a salary for long haul flag career.
Even Air Europa is paying 5000 net in 787 .
that is the aviation we have in Spain.
regarding Ryanair paying their FOs more, not agree, you make the same but the different is that they kill you flying 4 sectors 25 min turnaround on 737.

[Newcomer2]

you make the same but the different is that they kill you flying 4 sectors 25 min turnaround on 737.

I agree it can be exhausting. But long haul flights, jetlag and sleepless nights are quite tiring as well. It's just not the same type of fatigue but not better in my opinion

[MCDU2]

Our new joiners (non type rated) are on mid 40s (euros) before the extras such as sector pay. Bit more if they are typed. They get by in Ireland which is one of the most heavily taxed countries in Europe. As a long haul FO in Iberia I would assume you can live in the back arse of just about anywhere in continental Europe subject to their on call rules and 4k would go a long way. Its certainly a hell of a lot better than any TP operator would pay you and you won't be on it for long out of your 20-30 year career. You join a legacy for the career prospects, fleet, command, seniority agreements, pension, union recognition, CV, staff travel etc. Go LCC if you want to earn money straight off the bat but it will quickly plateau and you will then be staring across the ramp at the legacies wondering what could have been as you will be in a financial position where you cannot "afford" to downsize back to year 1 at a legacy. Have met so many people that wish they would have left a LCC after 18 months but never did and now can't shift to somewhere where they can move their careers along.

[hans brinker]

Sure keep dreaming

Second year FO pay on widebody in the USA is around $175/hr. You will be paid about 1000hr/yr, get another 16% in your pension plan account and about 10% (depends on carrier) in profit sharing. You will pay about 35% tax totsl on your taxable income (pension is before tax). comes out to about €13,000.= per month after tax.

[bringbackthe80s]

Our new joiners (non type rated) are on mid 40s (euros) before the extras such as sector pay. Bit more if they are typed. They get by in Ireland which is one of the most heavily taxed countries in Europe. As a long haul FO in Iberia I would assume you can live in the back arse of just about anywhere in continental Europe subject to their on call rules and 4k would go a long way. Its certainly a hell of a lot better than any TP operator would pay you and you won't be on it for long out of your 20-30 year career. You join a legacy for the career prospects, fleet, command, seniority agreements, pension, union recognition, CV, staff travel etc. Go LCC if you want to earn money straight off the bat but it will quickly plateau and you will then be staring across the ramp at the legacies wondering what could have been as you will be in a financial position where you cannot "afford" to downsize back to year 1 at a legacy. Have met so many people that wish they would have left a LCC after 18 months but never did and now can't shift to somewhere where they can move their careers along.

What he said.
(And I am one of those who’s NOT in a major)

[Newcomer2]

And that's exactly what I said, people like you lowering the conditions....putting a 350 and a turboprop in the same balance...

[alonso1986]

Our new joiners (non type rated) are on mid 40s (euros) before the extras such as sector pay. Bit more if they are typed. They get by in Ireland which is one of the most heavily taxed countries in Europe. As a long haul FO in Iberia I would assume you can live in the back arse of just about anywhere in continental Europe subject to their on call rules and 4k would go a long way. Its certainly a hell of a lot better than any TP operator would pay you and you won't be on it for long out of your 20-30 year career. You join a legacy for the career prospects, fleet, command, seniority agreements, pension, union recognition, CV, staff travel etc. Go LCC if you want to earn money straight off the bat but it will quickly plateau and you will then be staring across the ramp at the legacies wondering what could have been as you will be in a financial position where you cannot "afford" to downsize back to year 1 at a legacy. Have met so many people that wish they would have left a LCC after 18 months but never did and now can't shift to somewhere where they can move their careers along.

:D This is absolutely right, and in my case true (looking across the ramp...)

[bringbackthe80s]

And that's exactly what I said, people like you lowering the conditions....putting a 350 and a turboprop in the same balance...

Mate, I suspect you are just starting out. Listen to those of us who’ve been flying for 20 years. It’s a good deal all things considered.
Not that you have a choice to make, but just saying.
Enough said, I’m out.

[Newcomer2]

12 years in the industry and 7000h, from turboprops to jets, never paid for a type rating, I think I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. 3500 to 4000 euros flying a widebody is a disgrace, period.

[Nil further]

I was offered an exciting contract”the other day Euro 5k a month for a 320 CPT.
Holy sh1t are people really prepared to work for this ?

[Newcomer2]

Well, according to some people you should have jumped on this offer because it beats being a captain on a turboprop for 3000 a month. And you would have gained a valuable experience to then be hired at a legacy for better conditions...well maybe not at Iberia in fact.
And with that kind of mentality we're selling ourselves.

[Check Airman]

12 years in the industry and 7000h, from turboprops to jets, never paid for a type rating, I think I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. 3500 to 4000 euros flying a widebody is a disgrace, period.

I'd like to think you can make at least that flying an ERJ145 or CRJ 200 now. A320 FO's here at "low cost carriers" are making north of 10k a month.

As somebody said earlier, a widebody FO would make quite a bit more.

[samca]

Second year FO pay on widebody in the USA is around $175/hr. You will be paid about 1000hr/yr, get another 16% in your pension plan account and about 10% (depends on carrier) in profit sharing. You will pay about 35% tax totsl on your taxable income (pension is before tax). comes out to about €13,000.= per month after tax.

Amazing... the problem here is that Iberia had to cut salaries of their employees in order to survive the LCC wave during the economical crisis.
A part o that they created a LCC Iberia Express, opening a big conflict with their pilots.
so now IBX is stuck and salaries stay the same. But being honest we all know that if they don’t do that they will continue in red numbers and being un unprofitable company.
sadly but we all must accept the reality

[PorridgeStirrer]

Our new joiners (non type rated) are on mid 40s (euros) before the extras such as sector pay. Bit more if they are typed. They get by in Ireland which is one of the most heavily taxed countries in Europe. As a long haul FO in Iberia I would assume you can live in the back arse of just about anywhere in continental Europe subject to their on call rules and 4k would go a long way. Its certainly a hell of a lot better than any TP operator would pay you and you won't be on it for long out of your 20-30 year career. You join a legacy for the career prospects, fleet, command, seniority agreements, pension, union recognition, CV, staff travel etc. Go LCC if you want to earn money straight off the bat but it will quickly plateau and you will then be staring across the ramp at the legacies wondering what could have been as you will be in a financial position where you cannot "afford" to downsize back to year 1 at a legacy. Have met so many people that wish they would have left a LCC after 18 months but never did and now can't shift to somewhere where they can move their careers along.

Hi MCDU2, I’m glad you’re contented.


One doesn’t join a legacy carrier to “get by” or to live in “the back arse of Europe.

Air France, KLM and Lufthansa seem like the only decent legacy carriers left in Europe. The big 3 in the US are on a level above that again.

[wiggy]

You join a legacy for the career prospects, fleet, command, seniority agreements, pension, union recognition, CV, staff travel etc.

That certainly used to be the case, it was pretty much a "given", but TBH I'd now second the health warning given by PorridgeStirrer..

At some European "legacy" carriers the sort of items listed above are under attack as never before, and IMHO there is increasing validity in the POV that it's better to take the money and potentially rapid advancement with a LCC now than banking on joining a "legacy" at the bottom of a large seniority list simply because jam is being promised tomorrow...

[Solenoid]

I don’t really understand how there is people in here trying to convince the rest that 4000€ Flying for a legacy carrier on a long haul plane is good money.

Because of this people, conditions in Europe just went down and will keep doing so, that shows how much they value themselves I suppose......

[samca]

I don’t really understand how there is people in here trying to convince the rest that 4000€ Flying for a legacy carrier on a long haul plane is good money.

Because of this people, conditions in Europe just went down and will keep doing so, that shows how much they value themselves I suppose......

I think is the market situation which create this situation. Of course some pilots as well accepting flying long haul for 5000 nets. For example NORWEGIAN long haul and Air Europa as well. And because lot of people from Middle East doesn’t want to continue breathing “dusk” the have the Type on a big bird and some money and want to live back in Europe.
in Spain the problem is that is a nice country to live with high quality of life and unfourtunetly lot of Spanish are far away and wants to come.
Is not Iberia, is just the fuel prices, and competitor LCC that makes Legacy careers unprofitable. Look Lufthansa results they lost hundred of millions. So if Iberia for example put a salary of let say 7000 nets, the company would go to bankrupt.
I think that is the key. We all are guilty because we accept ****ty conditions, from LCC careers pilot till Iberia pilots. That is the ****ty aviation we have now and Spain.

[Check Airman]

There's a lot of talk here suggesting it's somehow acceptable for LCC pilots to be paid less. I'll ask these questions:

Does Boeing charge a LCC less for a 737 because it's a LCC?

Do fuel providers charge a LCC less for Jet A because the company's a LCC?

Does your CAA allow less regulation because the company's a LCC?

Why do pilots think they should give the company a discount?

[pudoc]

Does Boeing charge a LCC less for a 737 because it's a LCC?

In fact, yes they do. Boeing is very happy to make nice little deals with large low cost airlines who will buy a bulk order of 100+ jets whilst smaller non-low cost airlines don't see the discounts because their purchasing power is less.

[Check Airman]

In fact, yes they do. Boeing is very happy to make nice little deals with large low cost airlines who will buy a bulk order of 100+ jets whilst smaller non-low cost airlines don't see the discounts because their purchasing power is less.

That's not a function of the airline's business model, but rather a function of the size of the order. They're happy to make the same deal with a legacy airline.

[beachbumflyer]

There's a lot of talk here suggesting it's somehow acceptable for LCC pilots to be paid less. I'll ask these questions:

Does Boeing charge a LCC less for a 737 because it's a LCC?

Do fuel providers charge a LCC less for Jet A because the company's a LCC?

Does your CAA allow less regulation because the company's a LCC?

Why do pilots think they should give the company a discount?
And you can buy a plane ticket today to cross the Atlantic for the same price as it was 40 years ago!
So it's the pilots who have allowed the companies to impose these low wages on them. Take or leave it. The pilots didn't want or dare to fight for their T&C's.
And how come pilots at US legacies and LCC's enjoy much better salaries?

[Check Airman]

That's probably a complex question to answer, and I won't pretend to be able to answer it fully, but it probably has something to do with the fact that the vast majority of legacy and LCC pilots have turbine experience (usually as a captain) before they get into an A320 or 737. A LCC or legacy pilot will typically have had at least 2 jobs prior to joining the company. They have experience, and little appetite for poor pay and work rules.

[groundbum]

on the upside due to LCC many many more people are flying these days compared to 30 years ago, and that means many more pilot jobs in more planes! So pay has gone down, but at least there are jobs.. 30 years ago large flag carriers such as BA could largely fill the cockpit with military retirees and a few cadets..

G

[wiggy]

So pay has gone down, but at least there are jobs..

Sounds a bit like the argument some union reps have been known to roll out when the membership get a bit restless with their lot.

[Hawker400]

Sounds a bit like the argument some union reps have been known to roll out when the membership get a bit restless with their lot.

I agree. what a useless counterargument. This is exactly what my previous employer said when there was a massive downsize and forced to accept lower wages. Literally "Accept these conditions because it will be much worse being unemployed".

At the end company is back to the same size and conditions are even worse.

[samca]

Iberia has started to call for the knowledge and listening Assestment.

good luck!!

[smthngdffrnt]

Iberia has started to call for the knowledge and listening Assestment.

good luck!!

Nothing here. Samca, What profiles are being selected?

Thx.

[samca]

Nothing here. Samca, What profiles are being selected?

Thx.

I think they look for ATPL and Type Rating mainly