ASIC

[fujii]

From CASA.

Streamlined processes for ASIC/AVIC cards

CASA will soon be introducing streamlined processing for Aviation Security Identification Cards (ASICs) and Aviation Identification (AVIDs). As of 23 May 2016 all applications will be processed and issued by CASA’s service provider Aviation ID Australia. The requirements for applying for the cards will not change. All contact regarding ASIC/AVID applications and renewals should be made to Aviation ID Australia by calling 1300 721 241 or via email at: [email protected]. Information on the cards, including the application and renewal process and access to the application forms will remain available through the CASA website, with new forms to be made available as of 23 May 2016. Find out more about ASIC and AVID cards.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thanks Mr F,

'Tis indeed a real pity they didn't make them valid for the same period of validity as an Australian Passport - which has more 'clout', after all.

The 10 Years would be much more 'streamlined'.
Better still, are they really effective at all...??

Cheers:(

[Squawk7700]

So what is the actual change? Are the mob in Merimbula the only issuer now? I assume that means that RA-Aus won't be processing them too?

[YPJT]

So what is the actual change? Are the mob in Merimbula the only issuer now? I assume that means that RA-Aus won't be processing them too?

This link (https://infrastructure.gov.au/security/identity/aviation-security-information/asic-issuing-bodies.aspx) shows all the issuing bodies. Some will issue to individuals not directly employed by or associated with their airport or organisation, others will not.

There are some big changes in the pipeline for applying for an ASIC. The main one being that at some stage in the process, you will be required to present in person to verify your ID before the card is issued either to the IB or their nominated agent/s. This will be either to submit the application or collect the card. At the moment, many IBs accept applications by post with documents verified by the usual suspects. A national audit identified a number of flaws in this arrangement and before anyone jumps on their soapbox screaming blue murder, this was argued by industry for the past couple of years but the department is standing firm.

[OneSixSix]

There is nothing "streamlined" about a 2 year issue, 200 dollar renewal cost :rolleyes: :ugh:

[YPJT]

By "streamlined" CASA meant they were taking themselves out of the loop. Good job too as they made a complete hash job of it. Many of us will recall the rollout about 10 or so years ago and hundreds of cards in brown envelopes dumped in cleaning cupboards at their offices.

As for the savings? Well the savings will be in not being caught without one. It has been a long standing joke that no one ever checks or there were no consequences for non compliance. Watch this space. Sure you might get away with it for any indeterminable amount of time. But just like always pushing the boundaries on driving rules, one day you will do it in the wrong place at the wrong time and zap! Credit card number please.

There is nothing "streamlined" about a 2 year issue, 200 dollar renewal cost
The term renewal is somewhat misleading. Unlike a driving licence renewal your new card involves the same background checking process each time. Almost half the cost of the card gets gobbled up by Auscheck.

[fujii]

I am putting a query on the Private Flying forum to see what they do overseas.

[YPJT]

G'day fujii, I think I can say without fear of contradiction that Australia is the worse place in the world in terms of its imposition for security on GA. Notwithstanding the UAE where I tried to go for a flight at a school once. Gave that away as a bad joke.

[kaz3g]

There are some big changes in the pipeline for applying for an ASIC. The main one being that at some stage in the process, you will be required to present in person to verify your ID before the card is issued either to the IB or their nominated agent/s. This will be either to submit the application or collect the card. At the moment, many IBs accept applications by post with documents verified by the usual suspects. A national audit identified a number of flaws in this arrangement and before anyone jumps on their soapbox screaming blue murder, this was argued by industry for the past couple of years but the department is standing firm.

I can just imagine some poor bigger from the Upper Gascoyne who uses his C150 to muster a few droughty cattle and makes occasional trips to Carnarvon for supplies having to front an IB somewhere sometime to prove he is the person everybody knows he is for a 1000 miles around.

Rediculous!

Kaz

[OneSixSix]

The term renewal is somewhat misleading. Unlike a driving licence renewal your new card involves the same background checking process each time. Almost half the cost of the card gets gobbled up by Auscheck.

Do you know how they do this background check? I just received an Australian Federal Police Certificate which was about 50 dollars. Wouldn't surprise me if Auscheck sent that same information through to AFP as a third party... :}

[Ultralights]

it was a funny and sad day, seeing 3 Blackhwaks turn up at Tamworth, and half the crew being denied access back to the aircraft as they did not have ASIC's....
top secret level military security clearances. not good enough for an asic you get in an envelope after submitting photocopied paperwork..

[Squawk7700]

I'm calling bluff on the Blackhawk story! Not all flight crew need an ASIC for starters; you can be accompanied. Not all crew have Top Secret NV2's either :-) a good story for the pilots bar though.

[Fieldmouse]

Yep call BS on that one. Military in uniform on duty - No ASIC required. Denied access to the SRA maybe. Different thing.

[gulliBell]

The system is a bit of a joke. A few years ago I was doing some helicopter test flying at Sydney Airport...I was out on the ramp and the RAAF BBJ taxied past, parked up not 100m away and off trotted the Governor General. I don't have an ASIC, i was out on that ramp for 3 days dressed in mufti and not one person asked me what I was doing there, or challenged me to show an ID.

[Ultralights]

i didnt say the crews were wearing their uniforms,m guys in the back when flying blackhawk air dont wear the uniform on all occasions. even so, a defence id with NV1 or 2 is still not acceptable as an ASIC for some stupid reason.

[Lead Balloon]

Just because someone has an ADF ID does not mean they have an "NV 1 or 2" clearance. Nor does it entitle them to wander wherever they like. If they're in mufti, merely producing an ADF ID and asserting a level of clearance (which they wouldn't do, anyway, if they in fact had that level of clearance) isn't some kind of carte blanche. I can just imagine some poor bigger from the Upper Gascoyne who uses his C150 to muster a few droughty cattle and makes occasional trips to Carnarvon for supplies having to front an IB somewhere sometime to prove he is the person everybody knows he is for a 1000 miles around.Sounds like the profile of a typical terrorist, Kaz! :}

Everyone knows ASICs are about providing a facade of security. In politics, perception is fact.

[hiwaytohell]

Everyone knows ASICs are about providing a facade of security.
And revenue!

[KRviator]

I'm calling bluff on the Blackhawk story! Not all flight crew need an ASIC for starters; you can be accompanied. Not all crew have Top Secret NV2's either :-) a good story for the pilots bar though. I'd believe it.


Not Tamworth, but in a previous life, I was training as a Herc loadmaster and we flew into Hobart with apair of J's. The next day, full uniform, all our kit, we were denied access to the two Herc's parked on the tarmac as we didn't have an ASIC, or whatever it was the security muppet wanted to see.


A short walk to the QF gate, a quick explanation and check of our ID's and we were let through with the only comment being "have a great flight, guys" and were wheels up shortly thereafter.

[YPJT]

Some muppets do get it horribly wrong. There was a regulation change some years back that originally only permitted flight crew airside without an ASIC. Later changed to this:

Despite regulation 3.03, a member of a defence force to whom this regulation applies need not display an ASIC in a secure area if the member:
(a) is on duty and involved:
(i) in the operation of an aircraft; or
(ii) in supporting the operation of an aircraft; and
(b) is in uniform or other role appropriate clothing; and
(c) displays proper identification as a member of a defence force.

[Lead Balloon]

That's why anyone with serious destructive intent will:

- buy an ADF uniform or 'role appropriate' kit from a disposal store

- forge an ADF ID (probably unnecessary, as most security people at a civvie aerodromes will not know what a real ADF ID looks like anyway), and

- put on a serious "I'm crew on that Herc" face.

That's assuming they could be bothered, instead of flying in from somewhere else or driving a truck through the fence....

[Arm out the window]

Yep call BS on that one. Military in uniform on duty - No ASIC required.

It depends on whether the airfield security people know that or not ... a few years back I was part of a 7 aircraft push passing through Ayers Rock airport - I had an ASIC but most of the others just had military ID. Even though we'd just landed and parked together, all wearing uniform, flying military aircraft, it was a major drama for us to get to and from the tarmac area.

The bloke was just doing his job, but not fully aware of the rules regarding military - the silly part is he couldn't just make a judgement call and give us the go-ahead based on common sense ... he was hamstrung by a ridiculous system that really achieves bugger all. As you say, LB, if someone really wants to get up to no good, lack of a card isn't going to stop them.

[Fieldmouse]

Good point about staff knowledge AOTW but really that should be security 101 these days now that the rules have been in place a while. The issue is the RPT apron if it is an SRA. No amount of ASIC's, uniforms, common sense or righteous indignation is allowed on an SRA unless you are related to the RPT aircraft in some way or have specific approval to be there from the person named in the security manual. It's why, at a lot of airports I've been to, provided you stay away from the terminal frontage, no-one seems to care ( mainly because no one has the staff to police it all).

[Shagpile]

the silly part is he couldn't just make a judgement call and give us the go-ahead based on common sense

This is the fundamental problem with modern society. Worker drones are no longer allowed to apply any common sense. The reward for helping you? None. The punishment for getting caught bending the rules - potentially sacked.

[peuce]

Bending the rules never got anyone a medal...the most likely result is a re-education. ..or the sack. Just ask a colleague from an airline, the armed forces or atc . No...it Doesn't pay to do a favor.

[Trigglypuff]

The ASIC - a) proof positive of anti terrorist sympathies b) widely recognised joke, or c) a good way of getting a staff discount at the Sydney airport's cafeterias.

A defence ID in Canberra can be down to a Baseline clearance - which is still well above the burden of proof that the ASIC is. I'm sure the guys who mow the lawns in public defence spaces probably get away with a Fed Police check (and a working with children check, if mowing CASA's lawn).

I wonder what causal relationship is there between your inability to get a police check and afford $200 and your willingness to kill infidels for your religion.

Also, I may be wrong, but aren't ships that come into big ports able to carry much more destructive power than a 1967 Bonanza. What are the burdens of identity on these flags of convenience? I think the Mariners Licence (for Aussies) is similar to a passport, but what about the dozen Chinese nationals on the 50,000 ton fertilizer carrier.

[gerry111]

Your identity may already have been 'sussed out', Trigglypuff..


But a question for you regarding ASICs. Let's assume that you and I were to arrive by taxi at YCDU with only one of us wearing a current ASIC. And your 1967 Bonanza was sitting away from the RPTs and we decided to avoid the terminal and hop across the sheep fence 50 metres up the road. Would we be committing a Federal offence?

[YPJT]

Would we be committing a Federal offence?
Probably not but would p1ss the airport operator off. :ok:

[peuce]

You only need one in your party to have an ASIC. He or she can escort the others to the aircraft.
But...I would enter by a gate, rather than attract a lot of unnecessary attention by leaping fences.

[Lead Balloon]

Probably not but would p1ss the airport operator off.There's an "airport operator" at YCDU?

I look forward to meeting them, one decade. In future I'll ask them to hold the strand of barbed wire down to assist with exit and access airside, to avoid "unnecessary attention." :}

[red_dirt]

The ASIC - a) proof positive of anti terrorist sympathies b) widely recognised joke, or c) a good way of getting a staff discount at the Sydney airport's cafeterias.

A defence ID in Canberra can be down to a Baseline clearance - which is still well above the burden of proof that the ASIC is. I'm sure the guys who mow the lawns in public defence spaces probably get away with a Fed Police check (and a working with children check, if mowing CASA's lawn). .

You are 100% spot on there.

Most defence contractors have NV1 as a minimum but that rule does not apply for all of them of course. I personally know a contractor with granted clearance being rejected for an ASIC because of a minor offence he was convicted of.

[QDMQDMQDM]

I have just been doing some GA flying in the US and it rams home to you what a load of bull**** this ASIC card stuff is. Nothing like it exists at all there and the notion that an airport in the middle of the nowhere has to be surrounded by a big wire fence with access only an ASIC card would be thought absurd, as indeed it is.

Then add in helpful, laid back ATC, including at large airports, no landing fees etc etc etc. But the ASIC card malarkey is the most ridiculous. Nothing like it in the UK either, or Switzerland, where I have also flown. So why do we need it here? And what does it do anyway, especially out in the regions?

[thorn bird]

"So why do we need it here? And what does it do anyway, especially out in the regions?"

Make a lot of money for ex Dotar luminaries?

[YPJT]

So why do we need it here? And what does it do anyway, especially out in the regions?
Very good questions indeed but I have to say that the pilot fraternity, especially GA has been its own worst enemy in all this. By saying that I mean I have not seen or heard of one representative voice at any of the multitude of industry consultation meetings that have occurred.
Spare a thought for the airport operators though, all you have to do is fork out your dosh and dangle the damn thing around you neck. The airports are the ones who get constantly hammered by OTS.

[flywatcher]

It appears that from !st August you must see the issuing body or their representative in person to have your identity verified. Be interesting for Tasmanians, there is only hobart which issues to locals and stakeholders, I assume the others are required to trot off to Melbourne or Sydney or Merimbula to be verified. Sounds like a really user friendly piece of legislation.

[Changes commencing 1 August 2017

From 1 August 2017, there will be new requirements to verify your identity when applying for an ASIC or an MSIC. These include:


Face-to-face identity verification requirements

All ASIC and MSIC applicants must present to their issuing body (or the issuing body’s representative) in person with their original identification documents to be able to be issued with a card.
Issuing bodies (or their representatives) will be responsible for examining original documents for authenticity and confirming the applicant is the same individual on any photographic identification.
Contact your issuing body for more details on these changes.





New categories of identification documents

The new categories of identification documents replace the current identification document check with a more robust, risk-based approach to identity proofing.
All applicants will need to provide identification documents to meet each of the following document categories:

Category A – evidence of the start of the applicant’s identity in Australia (e.g. Australian Citizenship/Naturalisation Certificate, Australian Birth Certificate, Australian Visa);
Category B – a Government-issued document that provides photographic proof of the applicant’s identity and includes the applicant’s signature (e.g. Driver Licence, Proof of Age/Photo Card, Passport (Australian or foreign));
Category C – evidence of the applicant’s use of the identity while operating in their community (e.g. Medicare card, ASIC or MSIC, PAYG Summary); and
Category D – evidence of the applicant’s current residential address (e.g Utilities Account/Bill/Invoice, Bank Statement/Account Confirmation, Tenancy Agreement).

The applicant is only required to produce a category D document if their current residential address was not listed on any of the other documents they produced. As such, the minimum number of documents required is three, addressing all four categories e.g. Birth Certificate (Category A), Driver Licence (Categories B and D) and Medicare Card (Category C).



QUOTE][/QUOTE]
3.
What can I do if my issuing body does not have a representativeclose by
?

Before you submit your ASIC or MSIC application, please
check that your issuing body has a local representative
who can verify your identity in person.

If your issuing body does not have a representative in a
convenient location, you may wish to consider
a different issuing body.

A full list of issuing bodies is available on the Department’s
website
www.infrastructure.gov.au/security

[YPJT]

Yup no more going off to your local JP to get your ID docs certified and sending off in the mail.

If you are an Australian by birth you will now need an original birth certificate issued by Births Deaths and Marriages or whatever its called in your state. You'd be surprised how many people do not have original document.

I would suggest you call your preferred ASIC supplier to see what the costs of a card will be after 01 Aug. Some are going to use Australia Post for ID checks which will add quite a few bucks to your application.

[pcx]

Does any one have any idea why a valid passport is not acceptable as a category A document.
Also I have just spoken to Aviation ID Australia and they have said they will have an agent at Brisbane Airport for the collection of new ASIC's. Seems to me that Brisbane Airport will now reap extra income in the form of parking charges. More cost for an essentially useless card.

[Xeptu]

I should point out that although just about everyone does it, the use of a drivers licence for Identification purposes other than policing road traffic laws is not intended or authorised. Read the fine print on the back of your drivers licence.

[IFEZ]

Geez this stuff makes my blood boil :ugh::ugh:


What a waste of everyones time and money.


If we really have to have it, and get made to jump through all those hoops to get it, couldn't they at least have a validity period of 10 years like a passport..? I mean WTF is going to change in 2 years?! All in the name of APPEARING to improve safety & security. What a con job. What a rort. What a disgraceful impost on an industry already on its knees.

[ACMS]

Mmmmm have you seen some of the people at Airports they give ASIC's to?
System needs tightening up a bit I think.

Fed Police checks, ASIO, interpol......affiliations etc.....run the whole 9 yards on 'em.

I've nothing to hide, have they?

[Ascend Charlie]

And they will not accept your about-to-expire ASIC as any kind of ID, despite having obtained it by jumping through the same hoops.

Astoundingly stupid.

[holdingagain]

PCX Brisbane parking is free, the shopping centre / bottle shop ect is just across the walkway

[Ovation]

The preamble says:

The Australian Government is improving the integrity of the ASIC and MSIC schemes

What a joke! The only benefit is financial, and strictly limited to those who issue the ASIC cards. If somebody wants to disrupt aviation in Australia they certainly won't bother applying for an ASIC, so it's us compliant mugs who fork out a couple of hundred bucks and every 2 years have to prove who we are to a much greater standard than our passports, which last 10 years. Both my Passport and Driver's Licence are good for ten years, but if you send the same photo from your previous ASIC renewal it won't be accepted.

It might make the public feel good, but it won't make them any safer from someone intent on harm. Melbourne now has concrete blocks strategically located around city landmarks, which do two things. (1) somebody is making a lot of money selling overpriced concrete blocks to gullible authorities and (2) anybody intent on harm will seek out a location without them. Same with ASIC - an impost without purpose or benefit.

[aussie027]

FYI Everyone-

I just spoke to Emily at Aviation ID Australia who was most helpful.

The cost will rise from current $235 to $257.

Yes we will need an original copy of a full birth certificate.:ugh:

The process is basically the reverse of what it is now.
However it will be massively inconvenient to many people.:ugh:
WTF they changed it for who knows. They dont!!:ugh:

You fill in online form, print out and mail with pics and ordinary uncertified copies of all your documents for processing and card production.

You inform them of the nearest security airport closest to where you live ( on the app??) and they will inform you where there closest agent is and this is where they will mail your card, ie direct to their agent.
They are still determining who where their agents will be.!!

You then (make an appt??) go in, show all your original docs for verification and they give you your card and take your old one.

Current processing time is 3-4 weeks.

Obviously the old method was far easier in that anyone on authorised occupation list to certify docs could do that anywhere you live and then when mailed in they sent it direct to you registered mail.

Our complaining here will do no good whatsoever, phone calls. emails to our federal MPs might get this changed or the ability to at least use a passport superceding the need for a birth certificate.
Complaining to make these cards valid for 5 or 10yrs should probably be mentioned too!!! Hope that info helps .:ok:

[Old Akro]

We should be getting rid of ASICS, not making them tougher.

Jobs for the boys

[neville_nobody]

And they will not accept your about-to-expire ASIC as any kind of ID, despite having obtained it by jumping through the same hoops.

Astoundingly stupid.

Yep. ASIC is not a valid form of ID. Go figure:rolleyes:

Which then begs the question what is the point of it, if it isn't a valid form of ID???

[Awol57]

I don't know what you read, but a valid ASIC can be used as ID.


Category A – evidence of the start of the applicant’s identity in Australia (e.g. Australian Citizenship/Naturalisation Certificate, Australian Birth Certificate, Australian Visa);
Category B – a Government-issued document that provides photographic proof of the applicant’s identity and includes the applicant’s signature (e.g. Driver Licence, Proof of Age/Photo Card, Passport (Australian or foreign));
Category C – evidence of the applicant’s use of the identity while operating in their community (e.g. Medicare card, ASIC or MSIC, PAYG Summary); and
Category D – evidence of the applicant’s current residential address (e.g Utilities Account/Bill/Invoice, Bank Statement/Account Confirmation, Tenancy Agreement).

[galdian]

If they are going to make the ID so much more betterer and more secure and whatever else they want to claim then surely the period of validity should be increased as a logical consequence of forcing people to jump through more hoops for questionable benefit??

5 years sounds not unfair IMHO, suppose 4 years would be better than no change.

Cheers :ok:

[Pastor of Muppets]

Dreaming of a day where every airside worker just stops paying............

[Supermouse3]

what is the US equivalent? anyone know the lead time and cost?

[Old Akro]

what is the US equivalent? anyone know the lead time and cost?

For GA there is no such thing

[Old Akro]

[QUOTE][Awol57's AvatarAwol57
I don't know what you read, but a valid ASIC can be used as ID./QUOTE]

Ever tried to use it as ID? No one outside of a small part of aviation has any idea what it is. It's not accepted as ID except in select parts of primary airports

[neville_nobody]

I don't know what you read, but a valid ASIC can be used as ID.

Thats a change theyve made since my last application.

Looking at what you have posted it is only a secondary form of ID anyway. So if the Police pulled you up in an airport or airside you would have to go and get some other form of ID to prove your identity. Which is utterly ridiculous considering how many checks and supporting documents you need to get one

[YPJT]

Thats a change theyve made since my last application.

Neville,
Yes mate this requirement only comes into effect from 01 Aug. A lot of people probably aren't aware but these changes have been about 5 years in the making as a result of an ANAO audit that identified significant deficiencies in the ID verification process.
So don't blame the Dept for this. The Govt swallowed what they were told by ANAO.

[YPJT]

Two things are going to come out of this:
1. You are going to have to arrange to go to an ASIC IB to have IDs checked.
2. Depending on who your ASIC issuing body uses for ID checking, it could be quite a hefty extra slug.
Check here (https://infrastructure.gov.au/security/identity/asic-issuing-bodies.aspx) for a your nearest provider.

[zanzibar]

the use of a drivers licence for Identification purposes other than policing road traffic laws is not intended or authorised.

Interesting then, when I collected my new passport recently, I had to show my drivers licence before they'd hand it over.

[doublemamba]

Ok I'll take the ****ing bait!
What a disaster. Another $257 on top of all the other bloody gouging in aviation. What member of parliament should we be complaining too again?
Who the hell can afford all this extra time, expense and pointless bureaucracy ?
Then again maybe that was the whole idea: like gun fees that are exorbitantly expensive for gun club members or 'safe skies are empty skies' ideology?
Is it true that the U.S. doesn't bother with this crap? (the so called 'terrorist' main target)
I am honestly so over this convoluted circus **** show.
WHY WHY WHY ?
we spend all ***king day at airports and has anyone ever felt 'safer' because of a stupid plastic tag adorning our gouged necks?
If they keep ****ing off so many people they'll have more terrorists as a result!
Who wants to blow up CASA?, who's with me ? , we can storm Furzer St on the 14th July!!
FOR FREEDOM!!

[gerry111]

I'm sorta sure that Senator Pauline Hanson will get it all sorted if you contact her. Failing that, perhaps try Senator Cory Bernardi? :rolleyes:

[cessnapete]

doublemamba

No requirement for ID cards for private pilots in Europe either. At the bigger GA or airline destinations ,you might be asked to show your a pilot licence or Passport before proceeding airside.

[LeFrenchKiwi]

NZ has it easy it would appear. No AVSEC card required for private pilots at most airports, a couple that have scheduled services you might get asked to show your licence or some such to get airside if going through the terminal access otherwise that's it

[Jabawocky]

Welcome to Australia, the worlds petri dish for Nanny State ideas.

[Jabawocky]

And what is a "White ASIC"?......racist bastards :-)

No longer red?


I will take this up with my local member Peter Dutton, I am sure this is helping him keep out illegal immigrants.

But I have also realised as pilots, LAME's and any related industry staff we are screwed. There are probably at the most 100,000 affected people. 80% will be issued via their QF/VA or related employers. The rest of us, get ready for the pineapple. With 1,000,000 gun owners in this country who are equally or more pissed off with BS regulation that achieves zero, and they can't affect change against stupidity, what hope do we have in aviation?

Arizona or Texas is looking better all the time.

[Lead Balloon]

If the facade makes the punters feel safe, it's a small price that the bureaucracy is happy for you to pay!

[Eddie Dean]

Calm down peoples, $265 for two years is well worth it, considering all the discount coffees we get at the airport terminals.

[Old Akro]

Calm down peoples, $265 for two years is well worth it, considering all the discount coffees we get at the airport terminals.

Eddie

1. If you want good coffee, what are you doing buying it at airports?
2. If you want a discount on your coffee get a Starbucks discount coupon
3. Are you real? Have you figured out how many cups of coffee you need in a year to get your $265 back and for me the real cost is the day of my life I loose arranging all of the document copies, getting them signed by a JPand filling out the inane government forms.

This is a lousy ham fisted expensive to administer system where once again Australia has made more intrusive and more complex than anywhere else in the world with no proper review of the necessity for it.

[Lead Balloon]

We are trapped in the Orwellian world of government.

There is a bureaucracy with 'responsibility' for aviation security. There is a bureaucracy that makes money out of police checks. There is a business that makes money out of issuing ASICs.

Somebody has to be their plaything and revenue stream.

I had considered providing a submission to the review of aviation security, but then I realised that if I pointed out the various practical scenarios that demonstrated why the ASIC system is little more than an expensive and easily-avoided facade, the only likely outcome would be further inconvenience and costs to me and other law-abiding citizens rather than the people who are hell-bent on doing harm.

The 2-yearly inconvenience and expense - even under the new system - pales into insignificance compared with what we'd pay if it weren't a facade.

[Eddie Dean]

Eddie

1. If you want good coffee, what are you doing buying it at airports?
2. If you want a discount on your coffee get a Starbucks discount coupon
3. Are you real? Have you figured out how many cups of coffee you need in a year to get your $265 back and for me the real cost is the day of my life I loose arranging all of the document copies, getting them signed by a JPand filling out the inane government forms.

This is a lousy ham fisted expensive to administer system where once again Australia has made more intrusive and more complex than anywhere else in the world with no proper review of the necessity for it.When I want good coffee I definitely do not go to Starfvcks.
As always, you missed the satire.

[Clare Prop]

I can see the point from an aerodrome security point of view, but insisting on security checks for GA pilots is just another double standard, seeing as RA-Aus people don't have to have any kind of security check.

I think this is what should be focussed on rather than ranting about the cost etc, so talk to your local Senator about Section 6.55 of the Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005 as this is to do with OTS not CASA.

[Old Akro]

As always, you missed the satire.

you mean sarcasm?

The trouble is there are people who genuinely think that the discounts you get are an advantage.

[no_one]

I hope everyone who post here also sent a quick email to their local member.

Members ? Parliament of Australia (http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Members)

Venting on PPRUNE wont change anything. Emailing you local member may not either but it might just help when one of the aviation bodies are trying to get a meeting in the future.

[Lead Balloon]

That doesn't work. These arrangements are keeping our local members 'safe'. The only way we can convince them otherwise is to point out why it's just a facade. But that's likely to merely prompt them to demand that OTS impose even more inconvenient and costly demands on us.

[Jetjr]

seeing as RA-Aus people don't have to have any kind of security check.

Where did you get this from?
They need an ASIC like everyone else

[lo_lyf]

My ASIC got me 15% off an iPhone at SY.

[gerry111]

Venting on PPRUNE wont change anything.
What?? :sad:

[Lead Balloon]

Where did you get this from?
They need an ASIC like everyone elseDo RA-Aus people have to get an AVID?

[Cloudee]

Do RA-Aus people have to get an AVID?
No. They need no form of security pass unless they want to land at a security controlled airport, and then they need an ASIC.

[Lead Balloon]

Therefore Clare Prop made a valid point.

[Andy_RR]

Given the recent history of terrorism in Australia, making an ASIC mandatory for ordering coffee should make the place safer!
Less important for pilots at airports...

[Lead Balloon]

But why differentiate between RAAus and CASA issued licence holders in this case? All that achieves is dividing when a united GA pilot body is imperative to having these dumb regulations and requirements repealed.

The rules at the moment are clear:

Any pilot (be it RAAus or CASA) who has or requires airside access at a security controlled aerodrome requires an ASIC. Likewise both a CASA or RAAus pilot operating out of a non-security controlled aerodrome (or ALA, or field, or whatever) doesn't require an ASIC.But you missed the point made by Clare: A "CASA" pilot must have at least an AVID, and getting one entails a security check.

However, I agree completely with your first point.

[runway16]

So do I have it right?


A few weeks to run and this new set of rules come into place.


In Victoria there appears to be only one location where you have to front to confirm your face and paperwork ?


This is a disaster for flying. What about the guys in the country? Do they have to spend bulk dollars getting to and from that location?


This is really going to be a huge negative for people wanting to get into flying.
More security barriers and work that does not appear to do anything real. If the bad guys want to get into an airport are they really going to get an ASIC?
A pair of wire cutters will be the cheap option.

[Egipps]

So do I have it right?

In Victoria there appears to be only one location where you have to front to confirm your face and paperwork ?

This is a disaster for flying. What about the guys in the country? Do they have to spend bulk dollars getting to and from that location?


AviationID have assured me there will be someone at Moorabbin to do the checks. No idea re other locations. But maybe worth calling them.

[Old Akro]

A pair of wire cutters will be the cheap option.

Not to mention the airports that you can walk to the end of the security fence then then step over a 3 strand wire fence.

Or one other I know where you can reach under the automatic gate with a shifter and undo the bolt holding the electric operating arm.

Or another where a sharp push will overcome the magnetic lock.

The whole thing is a sham and a farce that only serves to create more jobs in Canberra.

[thunderbird five]

Q1. Anyone here with no ASIC ever landed somewhere where one was required? eg, just a quick pitstop or fuel stop, or more. What happened? Did you get bailed up by anyone, and what happened? I've not yet exactly found the info as to precisely who has any power to bail anybody up, and then do what to them? - it all seems very vague.

Q2. Who is genuinely afraid of landing at a secure regional airport with no ASIC? I'm not close enough to any to try it out.

[Clare Prop]

RAAus pilots don't fall under ATSR 6.55 as they don't have a pilot's LICENCE.
and don't come under the requirement for a "security designated authorisation" to operate an aircraft as every CASA licence holder does.
This is a clear double standard and another example of the uneven playing field that RAAus creates.
Of course they need one to access areas where an ASIC is required.

[Clare Prop]

BTW at Jandakot you can apply for an ASIC and do the face to face document verification at Minovation.

[Aussie Bob]

Q1. Anyone here with no ASIC ever landed somewhere where one was required? eg, just a quick pitstop or fuel stop, or more. What happened? Did you get bailed up by anyone, and what happened? I've not yet exactly found the info as to precisely who has any power to bail anybody up, and then do what to them? - it all seems very vague.I have, never been a problem because I was never hassled. I have seen plenty of others do the same. My best guess is that if you were a polite sort of person, nothing would happen except you may be watched as you refuel and then leave the airport. If you wanted to make a scene, then I am sure you would be kicked off the airport. if you wanted to argue the point about being kicked off, I am sure the police would be called.

Q2. Who is genuinely afraid of landing at a secure regional airport with no ASIC? I'm not close enough to any to try it out. Not I said the fly. I have been known to forget mine or leave it in the plane but then I am a polite sort of a guy :O

This is a clear double standard and another example of the uneven playing field that RAAus creates.Clare, while I agree with your sentiment, it is totally irrelevant. Everyone who goes in a secure area at an airport needs an ASIC card including the tarmac terriers. It is counterproductive to aviation to draw a line between the two licence types.

For me; living in a rural area it will be easier to front up to an issuing authority than find a JP. Finding a JP, making an appointment and getting the said JP to actually write what is required has always been an interminable hassle. That said, I detest ASIC cards and the plain stupidity of those that think this is a good idea.

[Clare Prop]

I'm not talking about aerodrome access in this instance.

RAAus pilot certificate is NOT a licence therefore it isn't covered by ATSR 6.55. AVIATION TRANSPORT SECURITY REGULATIONS 2005 - REG 6.55 Exercise of privileges of flight crew licences etc (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/atsr2005457/s6.55.html)

This law applies to all of Australian territory, not just the aerodromes, that's a separate issue and of course there are thousands of people who work at aerodromes who are not pilots and who have ASICs.

Leaving the aerodrome access issue aside, the point is that if your aircraft is below a certain weight you aren't required to have a security designated authorisation. It IS relevant because it is just another way that GA is made to carry the financial burden while the RA Aus people contribute nothing, because of the semantics that their flying is done on a "certificate" and not a "licence".

[AvnSec511]

It appears that from !st August you must see the issuing body or their representative in person to have your identity verified. Be interesting for Tasmanians, there is only hobart which issues to locals and stakeholders, I assume the others are required to trot off to Melbourne or Sydney or Merimbula to be verified. Sounds like a really user friendly piece of legislation.


There is a new option for Tasmanians. Veritas is a new ASIC issuing body (www.asic.net.au (http://www.asic.net.au)). Veritas has served as an MSIC issuing body for the past 10 years.

In Tasmania, Veritas and its partner Australia Post have an OTS approved process for allowing ASIC applicants to apply online and lodge their applications for ASIC at Australia Post. There are 13 outlets in Tassie where you can lodge these applications. Yes, there is a slightly higher cost for using Australia Post but the new legislation requiring in-person checks and a few other record keeping requirements have contributed to the cost.

Veritas enables approved applicants to obtain "AUS" cards. Approval times are 1-2 weeks on average and will only require your time to complete an online application and make one trip to the post office to lodge.

The Commonwealth has set the legislation...issuing bodies have developed the means to comply.

[RatsoreA]

So, I emailed David Leyonhjelm from the Liberal Democrats Party, and sent him a link to this thread. He was previously unaware of the ASIC issue, and will be looking into it ASAP!

Having followed his party since it started, and a big supporter of them, they jump on these things all the time. Everyone follow it up with an email and maybe we can actually make an improvement to the system.

[Slatye]

I'm not talking about aerodrome access in this instance.

RAAus pilot certificate is NOT a licence therefore it isn't covered by ATSR 6.55. AVIATION TRANSPORT SECURITY REGULATIONS 2005 - REG 6.55 Exercise of privileges of flight crew licences etc (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/atsr2005457/s6.55.html)

This law applies to all of Australian territory, not just the aerodromes, that's a separate issue and of course there are thousands of people who work at aerodromes who are not pilots and who have ASICs.

Interesting, I had no idea that this was the case - but CASA confirms (https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-page/your-asic-questions-answered)it (well, you need at least an AVID - ASIC is only required for security controlled airports with RPT operations).

From CASA: "At a minimum, all pilots must undergo the background checks for an AVID. Only those pilots who require access to a secure area of a security controlled airport will need to undergo the more robust background checks for an ASIC."

thunderbird five - never done it, but in Canberra if you leave the airside area you have to call airport security to get back in. If you don't have an ASIC (they do ask to see it, and actually confirm that the photo bears a resemblence to the user) then you will not be allowed in.

[Lead Balloon]

Q1. Anyone here with no ASIC ever landed somewhere where one was required? eg, just a quick pitstop or fuel stop, or more. What happened? Did you get bailed up by anyone, and what happened? I've not yet exactly found the info as to precisely who has any power to bail anybody up, and then do what to them? - it all seems very vague.

Q2. Who is genuinely afraid of landing at a secure regional airport with no ASIC? I'm not close enough to any to try it out.The trouble with those kinds of questions, T5, is that people who are no risk to security will have to pay the cost of the implications of the answers.

Imagine a hypothetical capital city. Let's call it Arrebnac. The airport at this hypothetical city is security controlled and surrounded by Class C airspace. This gives the pollies and punters who fly in and out of Arrebnac the warm inner glow of security.

Let's also assume there's a hypothetical country town with an airfield near Arrebnac. Let's call that airfield Nrubluog. Nrubluog is neither security controlled nor surrounded by Class C airspace. There are lots and places like Nrubluog in this hypothetical country.

Imagine if anyone could put in a flight plan to fly from Nrubloug to Arrebnac, and that air traffic control would give the aircraft an airways clearance and a clearance to land at Arrebnac, without air traffic control or security personnel at Arrebnac knowing whether the pilot has an ASIC or even a pilot's licence!

Imagine if that pilot could fly that aircraft, full of fuel, right over top of a hypothetical gathering of elected representatives called Tnemailrap House!

Imagine if that pilot could land at Arrenbac without anyone meeting the aircraft on arrival to check that the pilot has an ASIC!

Now I realise that these are completely fantastical hypothetical circumstances that would never happen. And no terrorist would risk being prosecuted for flying into a security controlled airport without a pilot's licence and ASIC - the fines would add up to tens of thousands of dollars.

But can you imagine what the knee jerk response would be if it were true and pollies put pressure on OTS to do something about it? More cost and more inconvenience to people who are no risk to security, with no actual increase in security.

[zanthrus]

Simple f*kCASA f**kDOTARS. Don't bother with an ASIC what the f**k are they going to do if no one bothers to get one? Keep flying tell em to get stuffed!

[RatsoreA]

Simple f*kCASA f**kDOTARS. Don't bother with an ASIC what the f**k are they going to do if no one bothers to get one? Keep flying tell em to get stuffed!

:D

Couldn't agree more. Large scale industrial action, anyone? Surely 50-100 GA aircraft converging on Arrenbac when politicians are all wanting to fly back clogging up the airspace and delaying their taxpayer funded burner seats would be an attention getter? Hypothetically speaking?

[kaz3g]

How many actually have a Birth Certificate they can produce as this is now a mandated requirement under the new rules? A full certificate, not an extract.

Your passport is no longer sufficient.

Wait, you say. I had to produce my BC to get my passport. No matter says Canberra...we know better than to rely on that!

So add another $100 or so to the next renewal and take your passport as your documentary proof of ID to the BDM Registry.

Kaz

[gerry111]

Imagine if that pilot could land at Arrebnac without anyone meeting the aircraft on arrival to check that the pilot has an ASIC!


There was I thinking that Arrebnac was well secured by Gate 3. Good point though, L.B. as no one checks who leaves. (Or even if they do..)

[Lead Balloon]

There was I thinking that Arrebnac was well secured by Gate 3. Good point though, L.B. as no one checks who leaves. (Or even if they do..)I reckon that in this hypothetical scenario the bad guys would introduce themselves to the security personnel, on arrival, by flying the aircraft into one of the buildings at the airport. Bad move of course: It's almost certain they'd consequently be found out as having no ASIC.

You might wonder why terrorists would go to all of the trouble of flying a very small aircraft with a tiny amount of fuel to strike a terrorising blow, when a thousand times more damage could be done by simply hijacking a fuel tanker. However, as I said: These are completely fantastical hypothetical circumstances.

[Lumps]

Seems like we are doubling down on meaningless bureaucracy.

What's the story here - was there a near miss with a very unoriginal terrorist getting an ASIC in the post or is some bureaucrat new to the job and wanting to make their mark!?

[Lead Balloon]

The way in which you ‘increase’ security is to make law abiding citizens do increasingly pointless and expensive things. Why? Because. That’s why!

[Squawk7700]

I assuming you're just referring to the face-to-face meeting where you pick up the ASIC? If so, it's just to verify your identity documents and photos etc.

[Lead Balloon]

Funny thing is that those identity documents, with photos, aren’t themselves sufficient to gain access to a security controlled area.

It would be a jolly jape to find out how many ASIC applications are actually knocked back. That way we would know the ‘benefit’ that’s gained in return for the costs.

What cracks me up is that no one has yet to notice that one of my crucially important, original and face-to-face confirmed identity documents doesn’t have the same name on it as the other documents. Might as well say Donald Duck.

Typical Australian government amateur hour - except for the fee charged.

[YPJT]

The requirement for face to face ID verification with original documents came in on 01 Aug 17. This (https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about/transport-security/inspector-of-transport-security) is the person/s you can thank for that.

[Lead Balloon]

It’s not so much the person who deserves ‘thanks’. It’s more the need to have plenty of SES sinecures to repay favours.

[YPJT]

That may well be LB but in the current climate you would have more chance of predicting this weeks Powerball result than seeing any relaxation in ASIC requirements.
I have heard that as a result of Aviation ID Australias data hack, IT compliance is going to cost individual issuing bodies in the vicinity of $30k. Guess who's gonna pay for that.

[Lead Balloon]

I do hope that the next step is mandatory DNA samples for ASIC applicants. Like aviation safety, there can be no price on aviation security.

[Stretch06]

Funny thing is that those identity documents, with photos, aren’t themselves sufficient to gain access to a security controlled area.

It would be a jolly jape to find out how many ASIC applications are actually knocked back. That way we would know the ‘benefit’ that’s gained in return for the costs.

What cracks me up is that no one has yet to notice that one of my crucially important, original and face-to-face confirmed identity documents doesn’t have the same name on it as the other documents. Might as well say Donald Duck.

Typical Australian government amateur hour - except for the fee charged.

I'm sure I recall a FOI report that surfaced a few years ago that stated not a single ASIC had ever been declined.

[gileraguy]

surprised to hear (in another thread about operating VH reg in the USA) that in the USA there is no ASIC equivalent!!!

Given that the USA has actually experienced a terrorist event related to aviation, I find it incredible that there is a need for an ASIC here in Australia...

[aroa]

Some years ago a pair of Customs now Border Force guys visited the airport for a chat with hangar holders etc
Before departing one gave me a card...on the back it had printed in large type..'You are the eyes and ears of yr airport' I responded with ' You are 12 years too late' What do you mean,? says the card giver.
I mean that after 9/11 in the USA THEY asked pilots and a/c operators country wide ..to be the eyes and ears and report anything suspicious'...AND the DIDN'T demand everyone connected with Aviation to go thru the ASIC performance and coststhat we have to.
In Oz the Goverment doesnt trust its citizens, so we have to pay the bureaucratic BS price,to build an Empire.
In the US the Government trusts its citizens to do the right thing.
And I'm sure any intending terrorist is not going to worry about applying for an ASIC first.
The logic of the ASIC is a crock of xxxxx

[YPJT]

I'm sure I recall a FOI report that surfaced a few years ago that stated not a single ASIC had ever been declined.
would like to see that report because I know for a fact that the information is not true

[Lumps]

would like to see that report because I know for a fact that the information is not true


would love to know the details - a rejection in and of itself is not evidence that the system is worth it (not that you were suggesting that YPJT). Depends on the level of paranoia that the rejection bar has been set with!

[Lead Balloon]

And of course the rejected applicants can still jump into an aircraft at an airstrip that has no security requirements and fly into a place where an ASIC is required.

Or maybe the terrorists wouldn’t try that, because they might get fined...

Or maybe they’ve set up ‘forcefields’ around all the security controlled aerodromes to ‘block’ any aircraft that doesn’t have an ASIC holder on board. (Sounds like an ideal opportunity for an IT contractor to fleece the government out of a few lazy hundred millions, in return for some magic beans software. Can’t call it the ‘Star Wars Defence Shield’ - that’s been taken. Maybe the ‘Integrated Metadata Security Intelligence Collection Kinetic Operational Forcefield Turbo Histogram Isomer Sensitive Sensor Information Technology’ or: I’M SICK OF THIS **** for short.

[Pinky the pilot]

Lead Balloon; :ok:

And the final sentence in aroa's post above really says it all.

[Mach E Avelli]

A carefully co-ordinated plan of civil disobedience could kill off this whole ASIC bullsh!t.
If every pilot and LAME returned their ASIC card and rocked up for work carrying their licence and another photographic means of identification (preferably a passport, but a driver’s licence should suffice) what might be the outcome? This would not be industrial action, as the staff have reported for work as rostered. It would be up to security to deny airside access or round up and detain those who slipped through their net. The authorities would be busy for a day. The jails would be overwhelmed with those who security did not pick up before they went airside. Or, if everyone simply declared at security they had no ASIC, everyone would be turned back. Peacefully.
Such action would inconvenience the public for a while, and cost the airlines millions, so government would have to roll over in the national interest. They would adopt emergency measures within 48 hours for appropriate licences to be recognised as sufficient, if backed up by photo i.d. Then they would adopt a fit and proper person test (as the Kiwis do) for issue of licences. This would be good forever unless some criminal conviction followed.
Jobs for security snouts would still be safe as they would be able to pay more attention to non licensed lurkers and maybe run some patrols around the perimeter fence looking for Little Rocket Man.

[machtuk]

yeah I know not another ASIC bash!
Nah can't do anything about it sadly but wondering how many others have waited a LOT longer for their renewal to be completed? I've had a CASA ASIC for many years. Used to be around 2 weeks with that Co in YMER. Now they say AusCheck do the screening and can take 10 weeks......Christ it never ends!! -:(

[YPJT]

yeah I know not another ASIC bash!
Nah can't do anything about it sadly but wondering how many others have waited a LOT longer for their renewal to be completed? I've had a CASA ASIC for many years. Used to be around 2 weeks with that Co in YMER. Now they say AusCheck do the screening and can take 10 weeks......Christ it never ends!! -:(

machtuk,
AusCheck - the mob who process the background checks migrated to a new system late last year. To say that it has become a dogs breakfast is an understatement.
10 weeks to process would be an absolute extreme case and I'd suggest you would have to have some form with courts to take that long.
At the moment, they are running about 2 - 3 weeks for Auscheck and however long then to get the card printed and sent out etc.
Please tell me you didn't go "that Co" They have caused the rest of us more grief than you can imagine.

[Okihara]

On a parallel note, can you renew your ASIC at any given time before expiration? Specifically, ASIC expiring in 7 months but for practical reasons, e.g. living overseas for a while, I'd rather have that processed while I'm here than having to come back or asking them to ship it to Uzbekistan.

PS. The ASIC was issued by CASA.

[machtuk]

machtuk,
AusCheck - the mob who process the background checks migrated to a new system late last year. To say that it has become a dogs breakfast is an understatement.
10 weeks to process would be an absolute extreme case and I'd suggest you would have to have some form with courts to take that long.
At the moment, they are running about 2 - 3 weeks for Auscheck and however long then to get the card printed and sent out etc.
Please tell me you didn't go "that Co" They have caused the rest of us more grief than you can imagine.


no previous criminal record of any kind, I've had an ASIC since they where invented, never been refused, flying for 40 years so am not new to this! I've never had a previous issue with that Co as you mentioned, always been very prompt. I was under the impression it would take 2-6 weeks, I gambled 4 weeks, a phone call latter was told up to 10 weeks, we are at the mercy of beuracracy at its worst in Australia!
Next time when I look at the crash axe in my cockpit I'll fondle my new ASIC I know I'm safe!

[kingRB]

I had this same problem with auscheck a couple of renewals ago. No criminal record, no address change for 13 years, 6th or 7th ASIC renewal, but that seems to have absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think they told me their service delivery standard is actually 12 business weeks and you have zero cause for complaint anything within that time. It must be great working in the Government!

[Rated De]

I had this same problem with auscheck a couple of renewals ago. No criminal record, no address change for 13 years, 6th or 7th ASIC renewal, but that seems to have absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think they told me their service delivery standard is actually 12 business weeks and you have zero cause for complaint anything within that time. It must be great working in the Government!

The common mistake us commoners make is the role of government and civil service is to serve the public.
As Sir Humphrey would posit, such an outrage will need a whole new department of staff to rectify...

[YPJT]

Okihara,
In answer to your question. Technically yes you can renew the ASIC well before expiry in fact a lot of people do. If you go through the same issuing body they would probably ask to get your current ASIC off you before issuing the new one. I don't want to start the debate about having two cards, yes I know a lot of people do and for very good reason. Although the legislation is a bit unclear in this regard, there is nothing stopping a person from doing so.

KingRB,
12 weeks is an absolute worse case scenario. Most issuing bodies are averaging about three weeks to get the clearances through and in many cases a lot less.

[Lead Balloon]

We cannot let the terrorists change the way we live.

[lucille]

Off topic but my AVID card turned up in less than two weeks and this was my first ever Australian aviation background security check.... the last 35 years I’ve been everywhere else.

Im guessing that unless you need access to the secure areas of security controlled airports then the AVID may do the trick as an interim solution.

[Dora-9]

A huge delay with my last renewal because their "system" wouldn't recognize my West Australian Birth Certificate (the same one I've always used for this and my passport)! To their credit, at least they kept me informed....

[Okihara]

Okihara,
In answer to your question. Technically yes you can renew the ASIC well before expiry in fact a lot of people do. If you go through the same issuing body they would probably ask to get your current ASIC off you before issuing the new one. I don't want to start the debate about having two cards, yes I know a lot of people do and for very good reason. Although the legislation is a bit unclear in this regard, there is nothing stopping a person from doing so.

... having two cards? Two ASICs? I didn't even know that this was possible, let alone legit.

[YPJT]

A huge delay with my last renewal because their "system" wouldn't recognize my West Australian Birth Certificate (the same one I've always used for this and my passport)! To their credit, at least they kept me informed....
What has happened is that the system now uses the government's document verification service to electronically match the data with the details of the certificate . So for years you might have been using your document and it is perfectly legit, however now because of some glitch or data error in a state's BDM registry there is no match and your ASIC application comes to a complete halt.
There are problems with quite a few of them.

[aroa]

Traumas about the ASIC could also come under the thread "Reasonable Security" ???
Yr Drivers Licence lasts for 10 years. If you do a crime, yr ASIC will be cancelled anyway.
They dont make it 10 yrs or Flying Licence perpetual because its all about revenue.

Instead of all the time wasting and doc hunting and fleecing the aviator, there is nothing to stop yr current police records from being reviewed on a continual basis.
If you do 'something' they'll know. If your a good citizen then there is no problem.
Is the current system 'reasonable'.
I think NOT..

[Squawk7700]

... having two cards? Two ASICs? I didn't even know that this was possible, let alone legit.

A private pilot who works as a baggage handler for an airline may be a candidate for 2 ASICS unless I am mistaken, as one is issued via his or her employer and has the employers name on it. The PPL or similar ones have CASA and your ARN on the bottom of them.

[Track Shortener]

ATC used to be able to get a red ASIC if they had an operational need as a private pilot, even if they were (for example) working in one of the centres and otherwise eligible for a grey ASIC. Five or so years ago it was decreed that we couldn't do that any more - the operational need had to be a work-related one - so there are a fair number of ATCs now with a grey Airservics ASIC and a red AUS one.

[Ascend Charlie]

Always had mine tucked into top left pocket, as it seemed to be a hazard, hanging on the company-issued neck lanyard.

Never got chipped on it, never asked to show it.

But I am still flabbergasted why your old one isn't a valid document for a renewal.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

... having two cards? Two ASICs? I didn't even know that this was possible, let alone legit.

The Merimbula mob do it (so far as the system allows) logically. You apply and send copies of all the required documents but keeping your ASIC. When they've finished processing they send the new card to their agents who will only hand it to you once you've shown them the original documents and handed over your old ASIC. Allows you to keep it current.

Of course the downside of applying well before your old one expires is that you get the 2 years currency from when the check is done - which means you'll get less than 2 years on the new card.

[Capt Fathom]

The PPL or similar ones have CASA and your ARN on the bottom of them.

What is a PPL ASIC? The ASIC I have does not have CASA or my ARN on it!

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

There are quite a few different issuing bodies. https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about-us/our-portfolios/transport-security/identity/issuing-bodies/asic

[YPJT]

But I am still flabbergasted why your old one isn't a valid document for a renewal.
An ASIC is a Category C ID. You need at least 3 IDs under the new requirements.
A summary of the required documents are here (https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/transport-security/Pages/identity/applying-asic-msic.aspx)

[zanthrus]

So if an ASIC is Cat C Id and Birth certificate is Cat A, Drivers Licence or Passport is Cat B. Why have an ASIC? Waste of time and money. Just fly around with a copy of your Birth Certificate or Drivers Licence in your pocket!

[YPJT]

So if an ASIC is Cat C Id and Birth certificate is Cat A, Drivers Licence or Passport is Cat B. Why have an ASIC? Waste of time and money. Just fly around with a copy of your Birth Certificate or Drivers Licence in your pocket!

maybe because those documents only prove who you are. They are not evidence of having undergone and been cleared by a security background check

[Ascend Charlie]

YPJT, you needed all that ID to get the ASIC. Holding an ASIC means that you have already been identified and cleared. That card should then just be renewed with a security clearance.

[Tankengine]

YPJT, you needed all that ID to get the ASIC. Holding an ASIC means that you have already been identified and cleared. That card should then just be renewed with a security clearance.
Absolutely! This year with the new requirements I had to get a new birth certificate, (my old one was an “extract”) even though I have had an asic over thirty years. To get the birth certificate of course items like car rego papers could be used to identify me! ;)

[Squawk7700]

Absolutely! This year with the new requirements I had to get a new birth certificate, (my old one was an “extract”) even though I have had an asic over thirty years. To get the birth certificate of course items like car rego papers could be used to identify me! ;)

30 years eh?

[J230]

I am currently getting my ASIC and of course it is taking longer than they say it will. I called the company I am doing my application through the other day and they actually sounded surprised when they found out how long it had been pending. :ugh:

[thunderbird five]

Yes, just pre-empting the Transport Security Regulations 2005. No point leaving it til the last minute, first in best dressed and all that....

[VH DSJ]

maybe because those documents only prove who you are. They are not evidence of having undergone and been cleared by a security background check




You can get an Australian Federal Police background check done for $42. It takes about 3 days. Why do we need to complicate things because we're in the aviation industry? My AFP background check was good enough in the USA to give me an aviation security clearance there, but not so here?

[YPJT]

All these ID requirements were about 5 years in the making. During the industry consultation airlines, airports, issuing bodies and unions were all involved. The arguments made above were raised throughout the course but the Department was acting on recommendations from the Australian National Audit Office that found flaws in the existing processes. So I guess on here we can get it off our chests but like it or not, it is not going to revert in any way.

A summary of the audit here (https://www.anao.gov.au/work/performance-audit/management-aviation-and-maritime-security-identification-card-schemes) shows in some way why things were tightened up.

[machtuk]

I am currently getting my ASIC and of course it is taking longer than they say it will. I called the company I am doing my application through the other day and they actually sounded surprised when they found out how long it had been pending. :ugh:

Welcome to frustration alley! This is my 6th renewal using the CASA card thus far have waited just on 6 weeks, was told could be 10 weeks.....status 'pending', sh!t so is my death!
Every time I get stripped searched at a security check point for a nail file etc I just shake my head when I enter the cockpit to do a cockpit safety equip check.....CRASH AXE....check!

[cattletruck]

From the CASA web site:
Replacement of an ASIC - $108.00

From the link above:
As at 30 June 2010 there were 265 328 valid issued cards (126 806 ASICs and 138 522 MSICs)

Also from the link above:
There are 25 entities that have the machines to make the cards

265,328 / 25 * $100 = $1,061,312

Not a bad earner to own a printer.

[Runaway Gun]

Hence why the ink only lasts one year. ;)

[KittyKatKaper]

All these ID requirements were about 5 years in the making. During the industry consultation airlines, airports, issuing bodies and unions were all involved. The arguments made above were raised throughout the course but the Department was acting on recommendations from the Australian National Audit Office that found flaws in the existing processes. So I guess on here we can get it off our chests but like it or not, it is not going to revert in any way.

A summary of the audit here (https://www.anao.gov.au/work/performance-audit/management-aviation-and-maritime-security-identification-card-schemes) shows in some way why things were tightened up.

I had a good chuckle at some of the items in that audit,
firstly at some basic incompetence It is difficult to obtain a reliable count of the total number of current ASIC and MSIC cards, or the currency of all cards on the AusCheck database. This is despite the database being established to provide a comprehensive record of all ASIC and MSIC applicants and cardholders.and then at the rigorous and meaningful and comprehensive background checks Based on an extract of the AusCheck database in June 2010, AusCheck processed 97 per cent of its background checking activity within one day and 99 per cent was completed in five business days or less.

[Dora-9]

So for years you might have been using your document and it is perfectly legit, however now because of some glitch or data error in a state's BDM registry there is no match and your ASIC application comes to a complete halt.
There are problems with quite a few of them.

And I thought it was discrimination against us Sandgropers - don't tell Griffo!